Opinion & Analysis
Slow players: step aside! A reflection on pace of play by a fed-up golfer
I’m just gonna say it: You are more than likely, in my opinion, a slow player.
This has nothing to do with handicap, riding vs. walking, or (most likely) the course—it’s about attitude and habits.
Where does this blanket statement come from, you might ask. Well, I consider myself a quick player. Alone and walking on a normal-length (6,500-6,800 yard) course, I can get around in about two hours with nobody in front of me—easily. I don’t run, I walk at a normal pace with intent to get to my ball see what needs to be done, and I hit the shot. When playing alone in a cart, I make it around in under an hour-and-a-half regularly, which makes for either an early day or 36 holes before 10 a.m.
Now before going any further, I need to make a few things clear
- I’m not an anti-social curmudgeon who gets no pleasure from playing golf with others. I actually prefer to play with other people and talk about golf and whatever else is going on.
- I’m NOT a golf snob. I mean in some ways I can be, but on the other hand, I’ll take a cart, drink beers, blast music, have fun, pick up short ones, and pay little attention to score. It all depends on the situation.
- I’m still there to play well. Playing fast and playing well are NOT mutually exclusive. The two can be easily achieved during the same round of golf. Too many people going over too many things is only creating more problems…but I’ll get to that.
So where does this all begin? Like many things, on the putting green before an early round of golf. It is my personal belief that if you are one of the first groups off for the day, you should play in around 3-3.5 hours max. Regardless of handicap, it should be one of those “unwritten” rules of golf—like not randomly yelling in someone’s backswing or walking through someone’s line. I have no problem with a round taking more than four hours at 2 p.m. on a busy Saturday afternoon in July when the course is packed—because the chance of me being out then is pretty close to zero anyway. It’s about the golf course setting expectations with the players especially early in the day and making sure that players understand there are expectations. A marshal tip-toeing around a slow group instead of just asking then to let faster groups play through is the bane of my golfing existence.
Based on previous life experience, it’s actually very similar (but in a weird way opposite) to the restaurant business. A group at a table should never just sit around on a Friday or Saturday night at prime time when there is a lineup, and they have already finished their meal and paid the check. That table is real estate, and if you want to occupy that space, you better keep paying, it’s inconsiderate to the next guests waiting and to the servers that make money from the people they seat—it’s called the restaurant business for a reason. If you want to go on a quiet lunch date and sit and chat with a friend when there are plenty of empty tables, by all means, take your sweet time (and hopefully tip generously), but at the end of the day, it’s about being aware of the situation.
On a wide-open course with everyone behind you, as a golfer, you should be mindful that you should play quickly. If its 7 a.m. and the group behind has been waiting in the fairway for five minutes while you plumbob that six-footer for triple with nothing on the line, maybe it’s time to move to the next tee, or be mindful and let the group behind play through. Don’t think for a second I’m just playing with a bunch of scratch golfers either. I play with golfers of all skill levels, and when I play with beginners I always make sure to politely explain any etiquette in a nice way, and if we “fall behind” to let anyone waiting to play through—it’s common courtesy. Usually, these rounds are played later in the day when we can take our time but if a group comes up we let them on their way as soon as possible.
With so much talk about golf in the UK thanks to The Open Championship, it’s crazy to me how the culture of golf is so different in North America where golf is meant to be social, enjoy the day, take your time, a place to do business (please just pull my hair out now), etc. While in the UK, it’s about playing for score and socializing after: that’s the reason for the 19th hole in the first place. They often employ match play to keep pace up vs. putting everything out too. Golf was never meant to be a full-day event. It’s a game to be played and then one with your day.
I realize we have a problem and instead of just complaining about it, I want to make some simple suggestions for helping things move along a little faster
- If you are going to use a distance-measuring device have it ready.
- If you for sure lost a ball, don’t waste time: just drop one—on that note if you are on the other side of the hole, don’t walk across to help your friend look in three inches of grass, play up to the green.
- Place your bag, or drive your cart to where you will be walking after you finish the hole. It was one of the first things I was taught as a junior and it still amazes me how many people leave their clubs at the front of the green or opposite side of where they will be walking next.
- Play from the proper tees!!!! I shouldn’t have to explain this.
- If you are playing with a friend, try match play or Stableford—it’s amazing how this can speed up play.
Golf should never be an all-day activity! If you choose to play early, be mindful of the fact that you hold the power to keep the course on time for the rest of the day. Be respectful of the other players on the course who might want to play quicker—let them through. If you want to be slower and you know it’s going to be a social outing, try to pick a more appropriate time of day to play—like late afternoon.
We all play golf for different reasons but be honest with yourself about your reasons and hopefully, we can all get along out there.
- LIKE460
- LEGIT63
- WOW11
- LOL11
- IDHT5
- FLOP18
- OB11
- SHANK83
19th Hole
Vincenzi’s LIV Golf Singapore betting preview: Course specialist ready to thrive once again
After another strong showing in Australia, LIV Golf will head to Sentosa Golf Club in Singapore looking to build off of what was undoubtedly their best event to date.
Sentosa Golf Club sits on the southern tip of Singapore and is one of the most beautiful courses in the world. The course is more than just incredible scenically; it was also rated 55th in Golf Digest’s top-100 courses in 2022-2023 and has been consistently regarded as one of the best courses in Asia. Prior to being part of the LIV rotation, the course hosted the Singapore Open every year since 2005.
Sentosa Golf Club is a par 71 measuring 7,406 yards. The course will require precise ball striking and some length off the tee. It’s possible to go low due to the pristine conditions, but there are also plenty of hazards and difficult spots on the course that can bring double bogey into play in a hurry. The Bermudagrass greens are perfectly manicured, and the course has spent millions on the sub-air system to keep the greens rolling fast. I spoke to Asian Tour player, Travis Smyth, who described the greens as “the best [he’s] ever played.”
Davis Love III, who competed in a Singapore Open in 2019, also gushed over the condition of the golf course.
“I love the greens. They are fabulous,” the 21-time PGA Tour winner said.
Love III also spoke about other aspects of the golf course.
“The greens are great; the fairways are perfect. It is a wonderful course, and it’s tricky off the tee.”
“It’s a long golf course, and you get some long iron shots. It takes somebody hitting it great to hit every green even though they are big.”
As Love III said, the course can be difficult off the tee due to the length of the course and the trouble looming around every corner. It will take a terrific ball striking week to win at Sentosa Golf Club.
In his pre-tournament press conference last season, Phil Mickelson echoed many of the same sentiments.
“To play Sentosa effectively, you’re going to have a lot of shots from 160 to 210, a lot of full 6-, 7-, 8-iron shots, and you need to hit those really well and you need to drive the ball well.”
Golfers who excel from tee to green and can dial in their longer irons will have a massive advantage this week.
Stat Leaders at LIV Golf Adelaide:
Fairways Hit
1.) Louis Oosthuizen
2.) Anirban Lahiri
3.) Jon Rahm
4.) Brendan Steele
5.) Cameron Tringale
Greens in Regulation
1.) Brooks Koepka
2.) Brendan Steele
3.) Dean Burmester
4.) Cameron Tringale
5.) Anirban Lahiri
Birdies Made
1.) Brendan Steele
2.) Dean Burmester
3.) Thomas Pieters
4.) Patrick Reed
5.) Carlos Ortiz
LIV Golf Individual Standings:
1.) Joaquin Niemann
2.) Jon Rahm
3.) Dean Burmester
4.) Louis Oosthuizen
5.) Abraham Ancer
LIV Golf Team Standings:
1.) Crushers
2.) Legion XIII
3.) Torque
4.) Stinger GC
5.) Ripper GC
LIV Golf Singapore Picks
Sergio Garcia +3000 (DraftKings)
Sergio Garcia is no stranger to Sentosa Golf Club. The Spaniard won the Singapore Open in 2018 by five strokes and lost in a playoff at LIV Singapore last year to scorching hot Talor Gooch. Looking at the course setup, it’s no surprise that a player like Sergio has played incredible golf here. He’s long off the tee and is one of the better long iron players in the world when he’s in form. Garcia is also statistically a much better putter on Bermudagrass than he is on other putting surfaces. He’s putt extremely well on Sentosa’s incredibly pure green complexes.
This season, Garcia has two runner-up finishes, both of them being playoff losses. Both El Camaleon and Doral are courses he’s had success at in his career. The Spaniard is a player who plays well at his tracks, and Sentosa is one of them. I believe Sergio will get himself in the mix this week. Hopefully the third time is a charm in Singapore.
Paul Casey +3300 (FanDuel)
Paul Casey is in the midst of one of his best seasons in the five years or so. The results recently have been up and down, but he’s shown that when he’s on a golf course that suits his game, he’s amongst the contenders.
This season, Casey has finishes of T5 (LIV Las Vegas), T2 (LIV Hong Kong), and a 6th at the Singapore Classic on the DP World Tour. At his best, the Englishman is one of the best long iron players in the world, which makes him a strong fit for Sentosa. Despite being in poor form last season, he was able to fire a Sunday 63, which shows he can low here at the course.
It’s been three years since Casey has won a tournament (Omega Dubai Desert Classic in 2021), but he’s been one of the top players on LIV this season and I think he can get it done at some point this season.
Mito Pereira +5000 (Bet365)
Since Mito Pereira’s unfortunate demise at the 2022 PGA Championship, he’s been extremely inconsistent. However, over the past few months, the Chilean has played well on the International Series as well as his most recent LIV start. Mito finished 8th at LIV Adelaide, which was his best LIV finish this season.
Last year, Pereira finished 5th at LIV Singapore, shooting fantastic rounds of 67-66-66. It makes sense why Mito would like Sentosa, as preeminent ball strikers tend to rise to the challenge of the golf course. He’s a great long iron player who is long and straight off the tee.
Mito has some experience playing in Asia and is one of the most talented players on LIV who’s yet to get in the winner’s circle. I have questions about whether or not he can come through once in contention, but if he gets there, I’m happy to roll the dice.
Andy Ogletree +15000 (DraftKings)
Andy Ogletree is a player I expected to have a strong 2024 but struggled early in his first full season on LIV. After failing to crack the top-25 in any LIV event this year, the former U.S. Amateur champion finally figured things out, finished in a tie for 3rd at LIV Adelaide.
Ogletree should be incredible comfortable playing in Singapore. He won the International Series Qatar last year and finished T3 at the International Series Singapore. The 26-year-old was arguably the best player on the Asian Tour in 2023 and has been fantastic in the continent over the past 18 months.
If Ogletree has indeed found form, he looks to be an amazing value at triple-digit odds.
- LIKE3
- LEGIT3
- WOW1
- LOL2
- IDHT0
- FLOP2
- OB0
- SHANK0
In Tampa, there is a golf course that boasts carts that do not work, a water range, and a group of players none of which have any chance to break 80. The course is overseen by a staff of crusty men who have succeeded at nothing in life but ending up at the worst-run course in America. However, this place is no failure. With several other local courses going out of business — and boasting outstanding greens — the place is booked full.
While I came for the great greens, I stayed to watch our resident instructor; a poor-tempered, method teacher who caters to the hopeless. At first, it was simply hilarious. However, after months of listening and watching, something clicked. I realized I had a front-row seat to the worst golf instructor in America.
Here are some of my key takeaways.
Method Teacher
It is widely accepted that there are three types of golf instructors: system teachers, non-system teachers, and method teachers. Method teachers prescribe the same antidote for each student based on a preamble which teachers can learn in a couple day certification.
Method teaching allows anyone to be certified. This process caters to the lowest caliber instructor, creating the illusion of competency. This empowers these underqualified instructors with the moniker of “certified” to prey on the innocent and uninformed.
The Cult of Stack and Jilt
The Stack and Tilt website proudly boasts, “A golfer swings his hands inward in the backswing as opposed to straight back to 1) create power, similar to a field goal kicker moving his leg in an arc and 2) to promote a swing that is in-to-out, which produces a draw (and eliminates a slice).”
Now, let me tell you something, there is this law of the universe which says “energy can either be created or destroyed,” so either these guys are defying physics or they have no idea what they are taking about. Further, the idea that the first move of the backswing determines impact is conjecture with a splash of utter fantasy.
These are the pontifications of a method — a set of prescriptions applied to everyone with the hope of some success through the placebo effect. It is one thing for a naive student to believe, for a golf instructor to drink and then dispel this Kool-Aid is malpractice.
Fooled by Randomness
In flipping a coin, or even a March Madness bet, there is a 50-50 chance of success. In golf, especially for new players, results are asymmetric. Simply put: Anything can happen. The problem is that when bad instructors work with high handicappers, each and every shot gets its own diagnosis and prescription. Soon the student is overwhelmed.
Now here’s the sinister thing: The overwhelming information is by design. In this case, the coach is not trying to make you better, they are trying to make you reliant on them for information. A quasi Stockholm syndrome of codependency.
Practice
One of the most important scientists of the 20th century was Ivan Pavlov. As you might recall, he found that animals, including humans, could be conditioned into biological responses. In golf, the idea of practice has made millions of hackers salivate that they are one lesson or practice session from “the secret.”
Sunk Cost
The idea for the worst golf instructor is to create control and dependency so that clients ignore the sunk cost of not getting better. Instead, they are held hostage by the idea that they are one lesson or tip away from unlocking their potential.
Cliches
Cliches have the effect of terminating thoughts. However, they are the weapon of choice for this instructor. Add some hyperbole and students actually get no information. As a result, these players couldn’t play golf. When they did, they had no real scheme. With no idea what they are doing, they would descend into a spiral of no idea what to do, bad results, lower confidence, and running back to the lesson tee from more cliches.
The fact is that poor instruction is about conditioning players to become reliant members of your cult. To take away autonomy. To use practice as a form of control. To sell more golf lessons not by making people better but through the guise that without the teacher, the student can never reach their full potential. All under the umbrella of being “certified” (in a 2-day course!) and a melee of cliches.
This of course is not just happening at my muni but is a systemic problem around the country and around the world, the consequences of which are giving people a great reason to stop playing golf. But hey, at least it’s selling a lot of golf balls…
- LIKE17
- LEGIT2
- WOW0
- LOL4
- IDHT1
- FLOP0
- OB0
- SHANK19
The PGA TOUR heads to New Orleans to play the 2023 Zurich Classic of New Orleans. In a welcome change from the usual stroke play, the Zurich Classic is a team event. On Thursday and Saturday, the teams play best ball, and on Friday and Sunday the teams play alternate shot.
TPC Louisiana is a par 72 that measures 7,425 yards. The course features some short par 4s and plenty of water and bunkers, which makes for a lot of exciting risk/reward scenarios for competitors. Pete Dye designed the course in 2004 specifically for the Zurich Classic, although the event didn’t make its debut until 2007 because of Hurricane Katrina.
Coming off of the Masters and a signature event in consecutive weeks, the field this week is a step down, and understandably so. Many of the world’s top players will be using this time to rest after a busy stretch.
However, there are some interesting teams this season with some stars making surprise appearances in the team event. Some notable teams include Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele, Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry, Collin Morikawa and Kurt Kitayama, Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala as well as a few Canadian teams, Nick Taylor and Adam Hadwin and Taylor Pendrith and Corey Conners.
Past Winners at TPC Louisiana
- 2023: Riley/Hardy (-30)
- 2022: Cantlay/Schauffele (-29)
- 2021: Leishman/Smith (-20)
- 2019: Palmer/Rahm (-26)
- 2018: Horschel/Piercy (-22)
- 2017: Blixt/Smith (-27)
2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans Picks
Tom Hoge/Maverick McNealy +2500 (DraftKings)
Tom Hoge is coming off of a solid T18 finish at the RBC Heritage and finished T13 at last year’s Zurich Classic alongside Harris English.
This season, Hoge is having one of his best years on Tour in terms of Strokes Gained: Approach. In his last 24 rounds, the only player to top him on the category is Scottie Scheffler. Hoge has been solid on Pete Dye designs, ranking 28th in the field over his past 36 rounds.
McNealy is also having a solid season. He’s finished T6 at the Waste Management Phoenix Open and T9 at the PLAYERS Championship. He recently started working with world renowned swing coach, Butch Harmon, and its seemingly paid dividends in 2024.
Keith Mitchell/Joel Dahmen +4000 (DraftKings)
Keith Mitchell is having a fantastic season, finishing in the top-20 of five of his past seven starts on Tour. Most recently, Mitchell finished T14 at the Valero Texas Open and gained a whopping 6.0 strokes off the tee. He finished 6th at last year’s Zurich Classic.
Joel Dahmen is having a resurgent year and has been dialed in with his irons. He also has a T11 finish at the PLAYERS Championship at TPC Sawgrass which is another Pete Dye track. With Mitchell’s length and Dahmen’s ability to put it close with his short irons, the Mitchell/Dahmen combination will be dangerous this week.
Taylor Moore/Matt NeSmith +6500 (DraftKings)
Taylor Moore has quickly developed into one of the more consistent players on Tour. He’s finished in the top-20 in three of his past four starts, including a very impressive showing at The Masters, finishing T20. He’s also finished T4 at this event in consecutive seasons alongside Matt NeSmith.
NeSmith isn’t having a great 2024, but has seemed to elevate his game in this format. He finished T26 at Pete Dye’s TPC Sawgrass, which gives the 30-year-old something to build off of. NeSmith is also a great putter on Bermudagrass, which could help elevate Moore’s ball striking prowess.
- LIKE8
- LEGIT3
- WOW1
- LOL1
- IDHT0
- FLOP3
- OB1
- SHANK2
Dave Portnoy places monstrous outright bet for the 2024 Masters
John Daly stuns fans into silence with brutal opening tee shot on PGA Tour Champions
Justin Thomas on the equipment choice of Scottie Scheffler that he thinks is ‘weird’
Things got heated at the Houston Open between Tony Finau and Alejandro Tosti. Here’s why
Tiger Woods arrives at 2024 Masters equipped with a putter that may surprise you
‘Absolutely crazy’ – Major champ lays into Patrick Cantlay over his decision on final hole of RBC Heritage
Report: Tiger Woods has ‘eliminated sex’ in preparation for the 2024 Masters
Two star names reportedly blanked Jon Rahm all week at the Masters
2-time major champ announces shock retirement from the sport at age of 33
Report: LIV Golf identifies latest star name they hope to sign to breakaway tour
Richy Werenski WITB 2024 (May)
Richy Werenski what’s in the bag accurate as of the CJ Cup Houston Open. Driver: Titleist TSR3 (10 degrees, D1...
Wesley Bryan WITB 2024 (May)
Wesley Bryan what’s in the bag accurate as of the CJ Cup Byron Nelson. Driver: Callaway Paradym Ai Smoke Triple...
Adam Scott WITB 2024 (May)
Adam Scott what’s in the bag accurate as of the 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson. Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 (10.5 degrees)...
Pierceson Coody WITB 2024 (April)
Driver: TaylorMade Qi 10 (9 degrees) Shaft: Mitsubishi Tensei 1K White 70 TX 3-wood: TaylorMade Qi 10 Tour (15 degrees)...
-
19th Hole2 weeks agoJustin Thomas on the equipment choice of Scottie Scheffler that he thinks is ‘weird’
-
19th Hole2 weeks ago‘Absolutely crazy’ – Major champ lays into Patrick Cantlay over his decision on final hole of RBC Heritage
-
19th Hole3 weeks agoTwo star names reportedly blanked Jon Rahm all week at the Masters
-
19th Hole2 weeks agoReport: LIV Golf identifies latest star name they hope to sign to breakaway tour
-
19th Hole3 weeks agoNeal Shipley presser ends in awkward fashion after reporter claims Tiger handed him note on 8th fairway
-
19th Hole2 weeks agoBrandel Chamblee has ‘no doubt’ who started the McIlroy/LIV rumor and why
-
19th Hole7 days agoLET pro gives detailed financial breakdown of first week on tour…and the net result may shock you
-
Equipment2 weeks agoJason Day on his recent switch into Srixon ZX5 and ZX7 Mk II irons
Thomas Noel
Aug 21, 2019 at 8:19 pm
Well, I love golf. I’m glad I’m old. I play at the pace allowed by the course. I don’t goof around and believe a good shot saves more time than a poor rushed shot. I play ready golf. After reading these comments on this subject, many rude and vulgar, it reveals the character of many of the golfers on the course today. Loud, obnoxious, no concern for others. This type of conversation will embolden some to act out. Golf is going down hill. Not a gentleman’s sport any more! Soon it will get worst and I will sell my sticks and find another sport. Anyone interested in Scottys’?
Blake
Jul 24, 2019 at 12:56 pm
I would say looking for lost balls is one of the biggest issues. I understand that balls are expensive, but if you’re searching the weeds several times around, maybe you’ll be ok with a less expensive ball. I’m also in favor of a free drop for us weekend hackers nearest to the point that your ball crossed into the hazard. (This is why I buy used golf balls online)
Oiler45
Jul 24, 2019 at 1:44 pm
Dumb comments – you want to change the rules of golf and dictate the type of golf balls people play just so you can zoom around the course in 3 hours?? Ain’t gonna happen – sorry. I’ll play by the rules of golf, I’ll play whatever premium ball I desire, my 4-some will take 4 hours to play and we’ll keep up to the group in front. You can play through no problem if there is an opening in front of our group. If this doesn’t satisfy you 3 hour speed golfers who can’t enjoy the relaxation and peace on the golf course – find another hobby.
Rich
Jul 24, 2019 at 11:11 am
GOLFERS are at fault because they’re not considerate of others. Sorry, but narcissism is the main source of delays. People just don’t think of others, so they delay and delay and delay.
GOLF COURSES are at fault for not metering the starting gate, like the on-ramp of a crowded freeway. The course is paid for how many people START, not how many people FINISH. And at most courses, people are allowed to start as soon as the first fairway is clear, regardless of the time and the timing. They’re also at fault for not regulating the flow of golfers through the course. Courses don’t want to irk slow golfers, so marshals are largely neutered.
If there was one thing I could change about golf, it would be slow play. Put a progressive time limit on the round–faster earlier and a little slower as the day unwinds. Charge people for the time over the limit they spend. That will move things along. It will be hard on those being held up, but that could be worked out.
ewfnick
Jul 24, 2019 at 5:58 am
Once a solution to this problem is found, maybe we can adapt it to the M25! ( A major, MAJOR pain in the harris motorway for those of us in good old England)
Square
Jul 24, 2019 at 4:39 am
Here’s a thought. The consensus seems to be that most folks would prefer a 3.5 or less round of golf. Sometimes in the summer when no one in their right mind would want to be on the course, I’m able to zip around the course in 2 hours with a cart. If my buddy tags a long, it’s an easy 2.5. We play very ready golf. It made me ponder what we do that speeds up play. Some people will scoff at the rules below, but maybe enforce them on Sunday or Thursday and don’t have the round count towards your handicap. I’m a scratch and my buddy is an 18, so he uses the rules below to keep it moving.
There are really only a few things we do which make a huge difference and I’ll apply it to a new rule at your local course – Now enforcing 3.5 hour rounds of golf by doing the following:
– Only 1 putt per green. If you miss, pick up and you apply 2 to your score.
– If your score approaches double bogey, Pick up! You’re done.
– No OB, everything is lateral hazard.
– If you can’t see your ball you only have 20 seconds to find it otherwise, drop another ball with a one stroke penalty.
One final thought. With the advancement in technology, why aren’t there more devices on carts which would alert the group to speed up play or that they have fallen behind? Just another thought.
–
Circle
Jul 24, 2019 at 8:17 am
I don’t think the putting part is needed but the other parts are absolutely worthwhile.
Unless people are doing tour reads on the green, putting doesn’t take that long.
The quads, ball searching and not playing ready golf are the culprits.
One of the worst things is seeing 10+ handicappers playing $5 V1s. They stress over finding them on every damn shot. They also stress badly about water and OB because they know they will be out $15-25 a round in balls alone.
Blake
Jul 24, 2019 at 12:36 pm
We play something similar to your double bogie rule. You can’t score more than double par and no double digit numbers. So par 3 you pickup at 6 and par 5 you pick up at 9. And believe me, it is just as demoralizing as a septuple bogie.
Bruce
Jul 27, 2019 at 10:32 am
You are not playing golf: find another name or your game.
dat
Jul 23, 2019 at 2:19 pm
Everyone should have their own cart. Threesomes only. That will solve it. But no one will ever implement it.
Thomas A
Jul 23, 2019 at 2:53 pm
Cart schmart. I walk with my buddy in 3.5 hours or under on weekend mornings, 8:00 am.
Stephen
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:49 am
The golfer is the MINOR problem. The golf course is the MAJOR problem. Sending foursomes out in 7-8 minute gaps is a recipe for disaster. There are certain golfers you can only speed up so much, while if we gapped tee times better (further apart), we would see more time for the group in front to get in front. I also think courses are getting too expensive, thus causing people to relax and “get their monies worth”. Paying $65 for a sub par public course with burnt out greens is crazy. I don’t see problems on courses that don’t try to slam the tee sheet.
Joey5picks
Jul 23, 2019 at 3:56 pm
Amen! 10-minute tee time intervals, if not 11- minute. And a starter to send them off on their appointed time, NOT “when it’s clear” immediately after the group ahead hits their second shots. All that means is you’ll be standing in the fairway watching them as they chip/putt to finish the hole.
Pilot
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:42 am
I just listened to the podcast and I have to say the host sounds like a typical ADHD millennial. “Don’t line up 4 footers, don’t clean the ball unless it’s really dirty, don’t stop to watch fellow golfers putt.” Why are you even out there? It’s a game to be enjoyed with friends not a race to see who can get from tee to green the fastest.
Phil D Snutts
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:33 am
Yeah hurry up people. I only have two hours to play this leisure sport and I’ve gotta get back to Facebook and Netflix. Let me shoot my 97 from the back tees with my $2000 low t game enhancers with women’s x flex shafts and a 48” driver tipped 2” for accuracy.
Tim
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:24 am
Its funny that this article came up. I love the game, you could consider me obsessed at one point, but I am slowly shifting away from it. This summer in particular has been filled with brutally long rounds. I came to this website to read about how the open turned out because I missed it. Coming across this article has really affirmed it – Im leaving this website with the plan to end the frustration that I put myself through so often when I pay good money to waste time at these jammed up courses. Im quitting. Maybe couple rounds a year, but I just cant do it anymore.
A slow golfer is worse than dirt. A slow golfer is subhuman waste.
B.S.
Jul 23, 2019 at 10:43 am
Five minutes a hole huh?
In a cart to boot!
Hummm???
Cody Reeder
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:25 am
I have done this exact thing on the regular. I get the first tee time at 6:30 and I am off the course and in my car by 8:30. I can sometimes get home before my wife and kids wake up.
frank cichon
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:29 am
YES, I do get 12-14 holes in after my afternoon shift marshalling …using a power cart..all in around 90 minutes. You SIR sound to me like the typical (slow poke) that is maybe 5 foot six inches tall wearing a white belt (size 42 NOT 32) that TELLS his friends he scores in the mid to high 70’s, yet if you play by the rules, you would be scoring in the mid to high 90’s. YOU sir take 5 hours give or take 15 minutes to play and most likely tell the marshall to ….LEAVE US ALONE AS WE PAID BIG DOLLARS TO PLAY. It is unfortunate that MOST golf courses DO NOT BACK their rangers. I will finish my rant by saying that this article I agree with 100 per cent…..I DO blame the PGA Tour for letting slow play get out of hand. The rules are in place, just ENFORCE them. All I hear is that they are playing for BIG dollars….so what! The player that plays within the rules plays for the same money. Chances he is upset with the SLOW play …..who has the advantage……SIZE 42 WHITE BELT GUY,…BECAUSE HE IS COMFORTABLE PLAYING LIKE A TURTLE.
Mark M
Jul 23, 2019 at 10:20 am
Possibly the most condescending “article” about slow play I’ve ever read. 2 thumbs way down here.
Jeff Briggs
Jul 23, 2019 at 10:10 am
I would like to see Starters encourage groups to leave the pin in on most putts, consistent with the intent of the new rule to speed up play. It really does make a difference, and it is a good way to remind players to be aware of pace at the outset. It also is a great tool for a marshall. Overall, marshalls need better training. Best one I ever saw stayed right behind a group to fill divots and fix ball marks and even hold the pin before the rule change—never had to say anything, the message was delivered and received.
Scudder Graybeal
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:58 am
Ready golf is one answer. Look at a group in front of you. A guy hits a shot and everyone watches until it stops. Then the nexxt guy goes to his cart, looks at his gps, takes a club out of the bag and hits his shot. How much time was wasted? Only 30 seconds? Say that only happens twice on every hole by only ONE golfer. Thats 18 minutes a round. If it’s everyone in the foursome it’s two minutes per hole times 18 holes or 36 minutes saved a round.
Bruce
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:53 am
Equipment cost kills golf; not slow play. Where do companies get off?
$4 for a 46 gram piece of rubber which is roughly $40 per pound, $500 for a single club and $50 for the right to spend a few hours on a piece of real estate. Other activities and sports cost far less. In case you don’t realize the economic distribution, most people cannot afford golf and as the U.S. concentrates wealth, even fewer can afford to play. The game will continue to shrink.
All the talk about slow play is simply a head game where some players want to rush the rest of us to raise our score so they win. Golfers are a snobby group: a good player NEVER answers a question from a beginner or shows them techniques – too afraid the newbee will develop skills. It’s all about pecking order and pace of play is just a stab in the back discouraging beginners and killing the game.
Go run to play in 2 hours or less and make sure you never help a beginner.
I hope you practice your fast play during sex: speed is important and you will be a real discussion item for the ladies!
Thomas A
Jul 23, 2019 at 2:59 pm
You can get a good used bag of clubs for pretty cheap. It’s like complaining about the cost of a new Cadillac, as if everyone needs to drive a new Cadillac. Some people have to buy a used Sentra, but they are still driving on the same roads. Buy a bag set from Top Flite or Wilson for $250 and have at it.
Johnny Penso
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:39 am
Everyone playing ready golf would speed things up considerably. If it’s not busy we just play regular golf but when there is a group behind us we play ready golf. Whoever is ready play first, don’t worry about walking around and getting ready when someone else is putting etc. Too many weekend players try to play like the pros and spend half the round standing around and waiting rather than getting ready or actually hitting even though they aren’t away. The starter, if you have one, should educate everyone on ready golf on those busy days.
James
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:38 am
I’ve been playing for two years and I’m about a bogey golfer. I play on a local muni course. I’ve always been mindful of not slowing the group down (especially when I first started playing). I’m a big believer in “ready golf”. If my partners are looking for their balls & it’s all clear ahead, I’ll go and hit, I check my yardage with my phone as I’m walking up to my ball, I’ll go ahead and tee off if they are still walking to the box or getting water (regardless of who has honors), I play from the whites (230-250 hitter), limit myself to 2-3 putts max, line up & read putts while others are going through their process, etc. Sometimes I feel I’m breaking etiquette but I try to be mindful of not disrupting my playing partners.
Even with all that, there is no way I can play under 4 hours (assuming a 4-some). Slow play is a problem, but I think trying to play under 4 hours is unrealistic in most cases. Once you go over 4.5 hrs, now we’re in slow play territory.
I believe the problem at the typical local muni is a skill issue. It’s ok to take a bit longer if you crush your ball down the middle or your approach shot ends up less than 10ft from the flag. I see guys taking all day to setup and hit then duff it 10 yds or knock it onto the other fairway. It’s on us to self police ourselves. When my group is falling off the pace, I usually say something like “I think we’re falling behind, we should try and pick it up the next few holes”.
Steve
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:32 am
If you’re complaining about slow play it’s because a lot of people are on the course, which is a good thing for the game. Unfortunately, it’s super aggravating as well.
Fortunately I never have to wait on my local course and commonly have most of the course to myself in the evenings. Semi-private helps.
Patricknorm
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:19 am
We played last Sunday morning as the third group out. We left at 6:45 am. We were a threesome and took just under 4 hours to play. We were almost three holes behind the group in front of us who was also a threesome. I’m a typical faster golfer with a 6.8 index. The others in our group are similar. I’m more Brooks Keopka and the others are closer to Bryson Dechambeau. I actually gently nudged one of our group to get a power cart on the back nine to help speed him up. Still, it’s an attitude for faster golf. Lost balls are the biggest culprit.
But like Keopka said about J.D.Holmes; why is he putting on his glove when he gets to his ball? And then going through his 40 second routine. And then maybe hitting the ball. Golf is declining because of slow play.
SV
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:12 am
Sign at a local golf course: “Your position on the course is behind the group in front, NOT ahead of the group behind. Part of the problem, as someone said, is that courses don’t want negative comments so they don’t say anything to slow groups. Yesterday a group was 4 holes behind before the course ranger told them to speed up. They got mad and left. Those behind them were happy.
boyo
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:48 am
F&^k them. Don’t show up in the first place.
Howard Clark
Jul 23, 2019 at 6:06 am
People are stupid. I am 73, formerly scratch, and play the Senior tees. I usually score around my age. I play with others who play one set back of the Member’s tees. They score between 85 and 110. When I ask why they play so far back, they invariably say, smilingly, “just my ego. I guess.” Wouldn’t a person shooting 102 have trouble with his ‘ego’?”
Rich
Jul 23, 2019 at 1:25 pm
In reply I agree with Howard and I can say the guys in our Senior men’s club have really bought into the forward tee thing…just added anyone 70 or over or higher then an 18 can move up…took a half hour off regular men’s club rounds AND some guys are making birdies they have not made in years….win/win to heck with ego a birdie is a birdie……
Phil from Roseville
Jul 23, 2019 at 2:32 am
Get rid of carts. It’s ineffecient, and it lets people get too distracted with other stuff (beer, shrimp cocktail, phones). Plus, it tricks people into a false sense of playing speed, so they’re even slower. 8-minute gaps are also ridiculous. Charge a few more bucks at peak times and give your patrons an experience worth paying for.
Scott
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:55 am
+1
LD
Jul 23, 2019 at 1:12 pm
Lots of courses are designed to require carts due to excessive distances between greens and the next tee box. Lots of other ways to speed things up as mentioned very well in the article.
JP
Jul 23, 2019 at 2:00 pm
Can you imagine how slow it would be without a cart when someone slices into the rough and walks past it thinking they hit it further than they really did? At least with a cart, they can whip a 180 and go back to find it. Just because they’re walking doesn’t mean they’re willing to let it go and take a drop.
Oiler45
Jul 23, 2019 at 12:38 am
The problem with slow play is there is no correct definition of what is slow play. The writer says 3 hours, I say a 4-some should take 4 hours – who is right? If my group takes 2 hours to play the front 9 and we are keeping up to the group in front – too bad so sad if you want to play much faster than that – your wish to play in 3 hours is not “more right” than my desire to play in 4 hours. If there is a gap between my group and the group in front – we will let you play through – no problem. It isn’t your right to play as fast as you would like – nor is it your right to play as slowly as you’d like. Again, that is the problem with all the talk about slow play – what is slow?
Boyo
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:51 am
I played yesterday morning, first group off, with a foursome walking and finished in 3:10 playing at 6400 yards.
Scott
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:59 am
Let me help you with that definition. You are.
If you are saying that you play in 4 hours (presumably your home course that you know well), you are probably taking 4.5 hours on a difficult course.
Ben
Jul 23, 2019 at 12:33 am
Slow play is not based on skill, gender, or mode of transportation… generally. Awareness, or in this case lack thereof, is the primary issue in my opinion.
And to the golfer(s) who think they can play however they want because they paid a fee? Dude…
I worked at a municipal golf course in CA where we started a program called the Pacesetters Club. You had to join the club if you wanted to play before 8:30am Fri-Sun. We started play just before sunrise so during Spring/Summer first tee shots were hit around 5:15’ish. By joining the club you made a commitment to (1) play the course in less than four hours and (2) maintain the proper position behind the group directly in front of yours. Your group was out of position if:
-On a Par 3 tee box, the group ahead of you was hitting approach shots into the next green
-On a Par 4 tee box, the group ahead of you was teeing off on the next hole
-On a Par 5 tee box, the group ahead of you was finishing the hole.
If a group was warned twice about being out of position, they were asked (frequently forced) to pick up their golf balls and return to the proper position on the course. If the group finished their round in over four hours more than twice, they were restricted from teeing off before 8:30. We didn’t force anyone to join – it was up to the players to be accountable for their pace. The program was for the most part very successful and our tee time intervals were every 7 and 8 minutes.
Most Pacesetter groups who fell behind were trained to be aware of their surroundings – this awareness made our player asst’s job a lot easier. If a group fell behind, players putting out first would exit the green and tee off while the other players finished the hole. Groups that employed this tactic regularly got back into proper position within one hole.
There are golfers out there that know they don’t play quickly, and don’t want to play fast. Some who liked to play early didn’t sign up and found other places to play, but most players continued to play our course just later in the morning or in the early afternoon. The staff did most of the educating and we took more control over how pace was managed.
After a while we observed that if we could get all of our early morning times off the course in four hours or less, we had less five hour rounds later in the day. And if pace was an issue later in the day, most of our customers didn’t complain because at that point they weren’t concerned with playing fast… At least until the cheap super twilight players would come out and wanted to play 18 in less than two hours, on an 18-hole golf course that averaged close to 330 players a day. Again, dude…
And with all due respect to the person who began this thread, my quickest pace solo was a little less than 2:30 on foot, and I’m relatively quick on my feet. If you’re hoofing it on a regulation course in under two hours without feeling rushed, my hats off to you.
Not a slow golfer
Jul 23, 2019 at 12:26 am
2 hours walking a course… hahaha. Maybe if u ran. 4 hours isn perfectly acceptable for a round of golf. 3-3.5 hours max… come on now ur just being a muppet saying that… thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. Maybe 3.5 if they are all good golfers who play much faste than the average person and dont once look for a ball, send the first 2 who have putted to go tee off, never talk or even look at each other and run to their ball everytime. Wou I hate to play with u and have u checking ur watch everytime someone hits the ball to make sure we finish in 3 hours. 4 hours is perfectly acceptable.
kevin
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:54 am
if you can’t get in under 2 hours as a walking single you have problems.
Fast Pace Frank
Jul 22, 2019 at 11:40 pm
If you cant play under 4 hourse with a cart… you are doing somthing very very wrong.
Understand ready golf, dont have a tin cup moment every par 5, done ve a d bag as golf has enough of those already.
Jaka
Jul 22, 2019 at 11:09 pm
Preach it brother. It’s why I gave up golf for 10 years. Just this Saturday I got stuck for 5:30 on a very walkable course! This is the reason many people stop playing. It’s typically less than 3:40 in UK / Ireland. That’s how it should be done.
Doug
Jul 22, 2019 at 10:30 pm
Without a doubt, slow play is a problem plaguing golf … however, I’m a bit tired of arrogant SOBs acting like they’re the authorities on pace of play. Just because someone doesn’t play as fast as YOU would like doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re slow. Some of the guys that I play with take 10-15 more shots/round than I do, but then act like they’re fast players … well, guess what, you’ve added 20-30 minutes to my round with your extra shots.
KP
Jul 22, 2019 at 10:29 pm
I’m just gonna say it: You are more than likely, in my opinion, an arrogant douche. I’ve seen many courses post the expected pace of play, IN PRINT on the score card or in the golf cart, right around 4:15 give or take a few minutes. That pace is set by the respective course and thats how long it takes me to play. If you want to demand 3-3.5 hour rounds, go build your own damn golf course. Stop acting like you’re time and money is worth more than mine.
Boyo
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:53 am
You sound like the arrogant douche.
SP Sucks
Jul 23, 2019 at 11:42 am
You sound like a slow player. The times they PRINT on the scorecard is the MOST amount of time it should take you to play a hole/18 holes. If you can’t play any faster than that, YOU ARE A SLOW PLAYER. I love how slow players never actually think that they are SLOW.
Chris
Jul 22, 2019 at 10:29 pm
The problem is the courses sending out groups every 7 min not 10min. 90% of slow play is from a stacked course…like you said it yourself…no one in front of you…
youraway
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:17 am
This is a good point. My course stacks groups one upon another, just get on the tee. We do play under 3.5 hours but are frequently, disturbed, by others (usually singles) who believe they have a right to play faster and your group should get out of their way. Yesterday stacked behind a group of 5 holding up the entire course, but after round was over, and even though waited long periods of time, I was surprised that we played under 4-hours. So all this talk about numbers may be irrelevant. I say the problem lies with players not being ready to play when it’s their turn, excessive search times for a ball, and putting like their playing in the US Open with 14 foot Stimp speed. Get out of the cart and be ready to play.
chris
Jul 24, 2019 at 10:58 am
Golf courses should not stack groups at 7min on weekends…but they want the money! They hope for no lost balls, slow play to execute shots…we all know that is not possible and never happens. They blame the golfers, yet don’t allow any % of time for beginners or bad shots, sending players out at 7min.
Clubs placing players at 7min in busy tee sheet times is “un-realistic”, yet they send a ranger to crack the whip.
THIS IS THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK, THE COURSE IS AT FAULT.
e.g you put more cars on the road… traffic slows down…yet you blame a few drivers.
Johnny
Jul 22, 2019 at 9:55 pm
We are a group in our late 67s, we play from senior tees, we do 9 in 1.5 and 18 in 3-3.5 weekdays starting around noon. We ride and we give putts within 2 feet which really speeds up play.
We never play weekends, too many people who do not know how to play.
Slow play sucks, learn how to play fast, it leaves more time for drinking after the round.
pilot
Jul 22, 2019 at 9:23 pm
1.5 hours a round for one person? Either BS or you aren’t lining up putts and/or enjoying it at all. I play quickly and no way I’m finishing in under 2 hours.
Nuge
Jul 22, 2019 at 9:18 pm
I have a hard time believing anyone can finish in two hours walking. That’s an average of 6.6 minutes per hole… Last time I walked alone I shot an 81 (not terrible) and finished in 2:45. And I was moving pretty efficiently out there.. that said I agree with the sentiment of the article. Slow play sucks
Majduffer
Jul 22, 2019 at 9:00 pm
Unfortunately,slow play is a two edged sword for the golf industry. First it drives most golfers crazy and it causes many people to give up the game. This in turn causes golf courses to loose business. Players need to be educated to avoid slow play and not just by a Marshall during the round. I have never gone to a course which had slow play avoidance instructions on their golf cart or given to them if they are walking. Slow play starts at the first tee with players being called to tee on time. Next ensure all players are playing tees according to their
handicap index. If in doubt if a ball is lost then immediately hit a provisional do no go back to your cart as you should always have one in your pocket. A cheat sheet on the cart or given to walkers should give the following hints: 1. Players in carts should drop one player at their ball and then proceed to their ball. If players ball is missing they should look for it while other players go to their ball and hit and return and help in search. 2. If you are 250 yds out, do not hit a 3 wood for your lay up unless you hit it great. Instead lay up with a club you can hit. 3. Always get back into the cart after hitting and dont put your clubs away until you get to your next shot. 4. Whenever you get to your next shot, immediately use your distance device even if you are not hitting yet. 5. When your ball is short of the green and you are either pitching or chipping, take more than one club. Person furthest from green should take cart if they hit on or are very near green. 6. Cart driver should then drive to rear part of green towards next tee. 7. Players with extra clubs upon hitting on, should place them at edge of green on a point where you will walk to your cart. 8. Putt with the flag in if at all possible as it really speeds up time on green. If you must have it out then give it to someone to hold/tend then hole out and take the pin. 9. Line up your putt before your turn if at all possible. 10. Play ready golf on the green also. 11. Upon completion of the hole, immediately get in your cart holding your clubs and proceed to next tee. Write the score down on next tee and put away clubs. Play ready golf and someone should be on the tee box. Course should instruct refreshment cart persons to wait for players after they finish a hole not in the middle of the course. I have run tournaments giving players this info and have the
tournament completed in less than 4 hours. USGA/your local golf association should have a video running at courses showing these tips and available on their website.
JP
Jul 22, 2019 at 8:36 pm
Carts need timers that are on a countdown. The lead cart that goes over is charged an additional fee for slowing pace of play per hole. All carts behind are rewarded an additional 12 minutes plus or minus depending on what hole the offender is on.
Don’t like it, don’t play there. Leave that course to the players that can keep a decent pace.
Repeat, starting with the next cart in line.
buckeye doug
Jul 23, 2019 at 1:27 pm
Some cart have GPS data which would provide this info on speed pf play. A club I play stopped using it because the club had to pay $ 5 each time the cart went out. I do like the idea. Take picture of slow players and put their pictures up in the club house
rico
Jul 22, 2019 at 7:54 pm
Unfortunately the only way to really speed up slow golfers is to hit up on them when they’re taking too long. Does is create some fights? Sure, sometimes. But I’m 6’6 and 230, my playing partner is 6’3 and about the same weight. MMA backgrounds. We have no problem hitting up on people, and they get the message.
Jake
Jul 22, 2019 at 10:30 pm
You’re gonna get the shit kicked out of you by someone like me for for hitting into their family.
Toolman
Jul 22, 2019 at 10:31 pm
You can end up weighing more than 230 pounds If you intentionally hit into people.158 gr. or 220 gr. Depends on what is being packed that day. MMA don’t mean shit to someone packing!
Charlie
Jul 22, 2019 at 11:38 pm
I hope you aren’t in Texas, a right to carry state!
Tom
Jul 23, 2019 at 8:54 am
So you’re openly admitting you’re a douche canoe with a tiny penis?
Marc
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:33 am
LOL. You are part of the problem too. You don’t just hit into groups that are playing slow. I hate slow play, but will never hit into a group, ever. I have zero problem asking groups to play through, unless there are groups in front of them. Handle your problems like an adult instead of a giant (6’6/230) child.
Serenity Now
Jul 22, 2019 at 7:27 pm
I paid my money, I can play whatever tees I want, take as long as I want etc..
Slow golf is a serious problem.
One thing I notice is the slow golfers do not think they are slow. They think the other 3 guys are slow. I laugh when the same guy says it over and over even though he plays in a different group every week!
I walk 4 rounds per week under 3:45 as I am constantly reminding the guys I play with that the only bad golf is slow golf. If I play with a guy with a rep as a slow golfer, I tell him to get his own cart. Drive to his ball and pull off to the side if he has to wait for the shorter hitters to hit. There is really no excuse if you are conscious of where you are.
I think much of the problem stems from courses not wanting negative reviews from people who were told to speed up. We see these once a year golfers come out, go directly to the blue tees and hit their tee shots 30 or 40 yards and its apparent that they have no business playing the blues.
I recently played a course in Utah where the starter did a great thing. He welcomed us, encouraged us to play the correct tees based on our skill level, reminded us to only look for lost balls for 3 minutes, asked us to play ready golf, told us to stay with the group ahead of us and that the goal was 4 hours or less. He did in a very kind way that was unoffensive. (we played in just over 3 hours). Having a starter speak to everyone and explain the expectations in a kind professional manner might help the once a year bad golfer realize it is ok to pay the whites and to be conscious of the guys behind them.
I run a Men’s Club in North San Diego County and we track our rounds with a spreadsheet and have all groups check in with the starter at the turn where he signs their scorecard and writes down the times. We then send out the info once a month so everyone in the club can see who the slow guys are and when we do the tee sheets for the next month, guess who is in the caboose?
This debate will continue until people start to take responsibility rather than feel they are entitled because they paid the green fee.
The dude
Jul 22, 2019 at 8:34 pm
That took way too long….iI’ll bet you are a slow player (despite what you say)
Peter McGill
Jul 22, 2019 at 11:14 pm
Yes. Walk to you own ball without interfering with the other players. Be ready to hit when it’s your turn.
ewfnick
Jul 23, 2019 at 7:01 am
Bit unfair to the groups following, you can only play as fast as the group in front of you.
Jim K.
Jul 22, 2019 at 7:10 pm
Average commentary, well-short of epic as billed IMO…
Jim
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:38 pm
My ‘home course’, a once private club the town very wisely bought – some 55+yrs ago, is almost 100yrs old. A combination of links style & ‘classic American’ (small greens – lots of bunkers) was along the wetlands / Long Island Sound. It is what it is. An awesome 5800yd par 69 – 5 par 3’s & 2 par 5’s. 4 of the par 4’s are healthy @ 400yds. 2 of the 3’s tip out over 210 and are right along the water, so always a breeze. Pond/wetlands on one, OB R on both. It’s a great little course….only a few ‘hills’ for walkers.
Forever, the fairways were tree lined with beautiful huge maples & assorted evergreens. ALMOST every hole had nasty fescue & despite the snobbery ‘oh, LONGSHORE, too short, blah blah blah, if you didn’t take it seriously, it would sh!t on you. In 45yrs, Even at my best (+4) my lowest score was -4. I shot -4 or better on 7000 yd courses cashing checks on multiple mini tours.
WHY IS THIS RELEVANT?….the course went through major ‘renovations’ to fix OLD bunkers – that were really cool – huge lips looking like waves creating over – with 2’fescue protecting greens and a 100yd long ‘complex’of fairway bunkers between two holes protecting each – second shot on the 5 & the shot on parallel par 4, take down many trees, remove fescue, put sod around the old style bunkers (now ya might have a down hill lie – to hit to an uphill green – instead of just rolling into the sand.
Some renovations were needed – everyone was hitting longer – even hackers might’ve picked up a few yards on a good hit – BUT, THE MAIN IDEA WAS TO SPEED UP PLAY….
Many bunkers were ‘collapsing’ from years of erosion & a few of the Maples were struck by lightning….blah blag blah….so they opened it up, cleaned it up, but being ‘land locked’ really couldn’t do much to lengthen it more than a couple longer tees on a few holes….
SO, AFTER the revisions etc, the USGA was brought in to ‘rate’ etc the course, and DECLARED 4:15 MINUTES WAS A TARGET TIME! 4:15?!?!?! A ONE LEGGED 36 HCP 90YR OLD COULD WALK THIS COURSE IN 3:45 and shoot 109.
I walked it with two others in high school playing a serious tournament in less than 4hrs.
I’ve played 18 with a foursome in carts playing ready golf – first out one AM and finished in 2:45.
The problem’s been festering for decades – and when the ‘decline’ in play began after the tech bubble burst & even before the great recession decade, TOO MANY courses WERE LOATHE to actually go ask people to pick up, or speed up, pull over & let people through…
4:15 – and they ‘proudly’ posted it on first tee…therefore, if the first group out (phone lottery) – after years of the starter pairing up ‘singles’ for first 6 times HE KNEW would play in <3:40 WALKING, people bitched about 'favoritism' & the town cut it to 3 starters times TOOK 4:20 THEY WERE 'Close enough' to the 'goal' not to hassle – even though by the 5th there was 2 groups behind them on the tee.
The dude
Jul 22, 2019 at 8:35 pm
That also too way too long….get a life
Ron Elenbaas
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:37 pm
I find this the single most annoying thing about golf. I play fast and play ready golf. It is really uncomfortable to have to approach the slow group ahead, we don’t have a ranger. People get in their heads that if they play in 41/2 hours they’re fine…instead of what’s going on behind them…if you are holding up the group behind you, let them through, not hard, just polite
bigleftyintx
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:26 pm
I never will play golf with a person who blasts music. That’s disruptive
Darren
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:18 pm
In this day and age nobody cares about other people. The awereness factor is long gone and im not just talking about on the golf course
Nick
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:16 pm
Great article. Slow play is ruining the game. I will not play on weekends around us as it always takes 5 hours. It’s just not worth it.
Jack Nash
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:48 pm
Trying playing behind 4 groups of women intent on putting 6” putts. The usual reply when complaining to the Pro Shop is, “well they were on their 2 hr. Pace”(being that it should take 4 hrs for 18). That’s when I usually confuse those working behind the counter that “there’s something called Pace of Play”. I agree 100% with you. It’s frustrating as hell, and people don’t care about those who are being held up.
james harris
Jul 23, 2019 at 10:08 am
So you are upset because some women in front of you play the complete game while you wait behind them complaining and picking up instead of putting out….try spending your time putting instead of complaining.
Clay Rouse
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:11 pm
I would agree. I would like to point out that many make remarks along the lines of “don’t hold up the course plumb bobbing your putt for triple.” I say don’t hold up the course no matter if the putt is for eagle or triple and no matter how much money is on the line.
Acemandrake
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:10 pm
Play true match play; don’t mix match play & medal play.
Pick up if given a putt. Don’t waste time by insisting on putting out.
Geoffrey Holland
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:05 pm
Having worked as a course marshal for six full golf seasons I’ve heard every excuse and I’ve seen some amazing things.
Tihe biggest most important thing is to keep up with the group in front of you. so many people use the excuse that they’re not holding anybody up, but they can’t see four groups back where everybody’s waiting.
The golf course itself has a lot to do with how around starts as well. if a round starts slowly if you’re waiting on the first hole because it’s a reachable par-5 or something like that people tend to get into that groove immediately of being slow and even though things will clear up they will stay at that pace.
Pro shops are hugely responsible of course and I always understood the battle between the need for revenue and the need to not clog the course with 8 minute tee times. 10 or 12 minute tee times should allow a course to flow properly no matter how hard it is but when you get into the seven or eight minute range there’s almost no way of making it work.
One of the worst things I ever saw for slow play was one of them days where I worked at the second shift so I started at 2 p.m. . I don’t know what the morning Marshall was doing because he was gone by the time I started but as I drove back from the 18th green trying to find a group I was very worried. I found them on the 15th green they had taken exactly four hours to get there and it was absolutely brutally backed up behind them. Literally a group in the fairway a group on the tee and a group on the previous green, etc. Once I determined how slow they were I said okay guys miss them quick on the way in let’s get this finished. I ended up almost coming to blows with one guy at the end of the round who was busy complaining about me to the pro shop when I pulled up but fortunately cooler heads prevailed. They did manage to finish the last three holes in half an hour but by then the course was an absolute nightmare. Never did figure out what happened to the morning Marshall and why he had completely ignored the problem. That was one of those days where I found a nice shady spot in the trees and hung out there for a while. There was absolutely nothing I could do to speed things up.
Christopher Hansen
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Top Reasons for Slow Play
1. You’re not very good at golf, so you
a. play the course side to side vs. end to end
b. spend most of your time looking for balls
c. want to emulate pros by playing the toughest courses
d. want to impress folks with your prowess by playing the longest tees.
2. You walk instead of ride, particularly a problem if #1 is accurate.
3. You have very little golf experience.
Other Reasons for Slow Play
1. The ridiculous notion that 7 min intervals on the tee sheet is a reasonable amount of spacing given the above.
Best Fix?
1. Design your tee sheet intervals based upon knowledge of your patron players and the difficulty of your course. 10 min intervals would be a good standard in most cases. Pro Tip: spread the lost tee time revenue across your other times by increasing your rate. You’d be surprised – it’s not that much ‘more’ money.
2. Book Tee times by handicap index. That doesn’t mean that only low index players are allowed tom play in early AM spots, but that’s a possible outcome. If you’re a high-handicapper, still learning the game, or person who only plays a few times a year, this shouldn’t be a surprise. Most players in this category will be happy to adapt their calendar to these rules, it’s just that far too FEW golf courses are willing to risk losing the income to a course that DOESN’T adopt those kinds of rules. That being said, it’s all about the customer experience, so if you’re clocking 3.5 hr rounds as a public track, I doubt that you’re going to get a lot of grief.
3. Employ a Starter, and at least one Ranger. This is a no-brainer and most courses simply get this wrong. You can do it with zero labor costs. Offer the people who work in these roles partial or full practice or playing privileges.
painter33
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:42 pm
You’re wrong about riding vs. walking. A reasonably healthy adult plays faster while walking instead of two players driving to one ball at a time all day long. The second reason walkers are faster is that they don’t go into their bags as often. Riders will hit then walk to the back of the cart to put the club in the bag, while there, they’ll dig into a pocket or two (for what?) when they should hold the club just used until pulling the next club for the next shot. Multiply all of this times two times riders times 50-80 shots a round, depending on skill level and the excess time taken is obvious. Furthermore, riders mistakenly BELIEVE they are playing fast enough and therefore make no efforts to maintain the pace of play. Riders also tend to leave clubs behind then have to work backwards to find them once they realize the club(s) is missing. If you always have your bag at your side, it is quite rare to leave a club and continue. I have worked at a golf club for many years and can never be convinced that riders outpace walkers (except for the odd octogenarian who insists on walking 9 holes and pulling a cart – in four hours!). Yikes!
Christopher Hansen
Jul 23, 2019 at 9:46 am
Will concede the walk vs. riding point, although depending on where you play, it can make a big difference. If you shank you shots, walking side to side on every hole can make for a very long day. If you’re playing a course with long stretches between holes, walking is never faster
Charlie
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:47 pm
I do Starter 2 mornings each week at my local GC. It’s amazing how often I see players walking to their ball and away from where they played their shot at a speed so glacial it makes a walk in the park look speedy. And some of them play ready golf incorrectly – they think it means “be ready when it is your turn” rather than “be ready to hit when you get to your ball” and only wait if another golfer in your party is swinging or about to make a swing.
Luke
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:46 pm
Concessions for slow play need to be granted , however for people who may be playing at a once in a lifetime courses ( Pebble, St. Andrews and the like. They likely payed thru the ass to get there and will never have the opportunity again. If you’re in a big freaking hurry to plow thru your round because you have a meeting or dinner to get to maybe 9 at a muni was more appropriate. So, not only do we have to be cognizant of the folks behind us but we also need to consider the situation of the people enjoying they’re day in the sun. That being said I usually play in shitty weather or at either end of the day because I hate crowded courses. If I see foursomes of carts zigzagging 75 yards from the tees I just go home
Brandon
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:45 pm
If you are shooting for anything more than a double, just pick up your ball.
Christopher Hansen
Jul 22, 2019 at 6:15 pm
For kids, and beginners this is very true.
When I taught my daughter to golf, we had a ’10-stroke’ rule. She got 10 tries to hit the ball (whether she hit or not), and then she was told to just pick up her ball and drop it on the putting green to finish the hole.
limited her frustration.
saved countless hours.
still allowed her to try her best (without struggling unnecessarily).
allowed her to finish the hole with the other players, and get good experience putting.
allowed her to keep her composure and not be embarrassed with other people.
She ended up being a highly successful amateur player, and still loves the game.
Barony19
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:33 pm
Slow play is the bane of the game of golf. I’d pay extra to play at a course that mandated a maximum time per round of 3.5 hours and had rangers that actually did something about it.
More fundamentally, we should be teaching every new golfer (juniors and adults) that holding others up is a serious breach of etiquette. That’s how I learned growing up in Scotland and it sticks with you.
Jimmy Ray
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:11 pm
Great read, Ryan. I just came back from a trip to Scotland and my host was MORTIFIED that our round (3-some) took 4 hours to complete. He was chatting with a local friend, and if you had eavesdropped in, you would have thought we dragged around the links in 5 1/2 hours. But you know what? He was right. We could have and should have played quicker. We were enjoying the moment, not playing for score, so why didn’t we just pick up the short putts? Your comment about social time being for the 19th hole is spot on. I never thought of it that way. But I will now!
Snapjack
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:05 pm
I’ve seen it all and IMHO golfers get their cues from watching it on TV where every putt could be worth a million dollars. Having learned to play in a large metro area where every tee time is booked every day you better learn ready golf and how to help keep up the pace of your group. Most think the norm is to play to the group behind them, “we’re not getting pushed so we can take our time” when they should be playing to the group ahead. Every group should be at their shot spot behind the group in front. Not that difficult. Waiting in your cart while your buddy finds his ball figures the yardage and finally hits is not proper. Driver goes to buddies ball and lets him out then goes to his ball.
And the thing about the early groups leading the course is so true. You guys should have your clubs taken away from you if it takes longer than 3.5 hours.
Simms
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:05 pm
One fact that cannot be overlooked is the public course in California is under huge stress to stay open….still at least a dozen just a few tee times away from being gone…Having worked at two of them the word is the same kiss the customers behind and do what ever it takes to keep them coming back which includes being very genital about asking anyone to speed up…have been told on several occasions the players complaining about pace of play are not our everyday customer but ones that come once in awhile and it is always a safe bet a good deal will bring them back no matter how much they say they will not be back…Higher end courses can afford to loose customers the public low end course needs every customer slow play is just the way it is….
Luke
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:31 pm
Ha genital????
Stan
Jul 22, 2019 at 4:39 pm
most rounds are not always at the same speed. There are natural moments in this game, where the tempo slows down and this could cause a ripple effect just like traffic jam. You cant prevent that.
the dude
Jul 22, 2019 at 4:36 pm
ready golf!!….no one should care if you are away…..most of the time is wasted on the green..where a$$holes are marking and lining up 4 footers.
Jim Calkins
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:07 pm
With respect, I mostly disagree with your comment. The situation you describe is precisely the times when it is most important for the person/group to me MOST sensitive about playing with speed, PRECISELY to avoid creating the ripple-type traffic jam you mention.
My wife and I are avid golfers – or at least we used to be, and expect to be again someday. But right now we do not play at golf courses and instead solely go to the range. The reason is that we moved to San Diego three years ago and came smack into the dead zone of 5 hour rounds. We are used to playing in 3 hours when walking with an early morning start time, or 3-1/2 hours with a mid-morning start time. We quickly quit going to the SoCal golf courses with their abysmal playing times, which are caused primarily by amazingly self-absorbed people who endlessly read putts they end up missing (which putts matter not a whit).
We’ll be avid golfers again, when we move to a part of the country where people apparently were raised better, to have concern about the impact of their actions on other people.
Slow play is THE key issue why golf in the US continues to wither. The last thing the game needs is apologists for slow play. In my opinion.
Jim
Jul 22, 2019 at 5:10 pm
Sorry this comment was meant for Stan, not the dude.