Opinion & Analysis
The Presidents Cup, or the old Ryder Cup?
The Presidents Cup is more like the Ryder Cup used to be… a friendly competition where international golfers can showcase their abilities devoid of the “we’re No. 1” mania that has stricken the Ryder Cup. It’s also quite lopsided.
In 1977, Jack Nicklaus suggested that perhaps the continent of Europe should be added to the Great Britain and Ireland side to make the competition more fair. Prior to that, the Americans almost always won, often by lopsided margins. The inclusion of Europe made the Ryder Cup what it is today. This was, as we’ll see, a little bittersweet.
It’s true that the Ryder Cup is a far superior competition, but it has become more than what was intended or what Jack had in mind. It’s all well and good to root for the home team, but when flag waving dominates the contest, it demeans golf. Since the infamous “War at the Shore” in 1991, the Ryder Cup has become far too serious an affair for its own good. Booing opponents and name calling is not what our game is about. And while it used to represent a spirited, yet congenial event, it got lost along the way.
Can you imagine Patrick Reed giving Sergio a 3-footer to halve the entire event on Sunday? Crazy right? Well, that’s just what Jack Nicklaus did in the 1969 Ryder Cup in his match against Tony Jacklin.
“I knew you wouldn’t have missed that, but under the circumstances, I wasn’t going to give you that opportunity,” Nicklaus says he told Jacklin as they shook hands leaving the green.
That would be unthinkable in today’s competition. But, of course, Jack Nicklaus is the rare exception to many things; he’s the greatest winner AND the greatest loser in sports… maybe ever!
The Presidents Cup, on the other hand, has the feeling of the Ryder Cup of long ago. Yes, the teams play hard and it’s a great show, but it’s without the bitterness that seems to pervade the Ryder Cup. That’s said, I don’t think the contest is competitive enough. Not in spirit, but for whatever reason, it has become a one-sided affair, almost a foregone conclusion, like the first 50 years of the Ryder Cup. It raises money for charity and gives us another week to watch some of the best players in the world, but it needs a format or restructuring of teams to make it a world-class event. An event that is effectively closed out on Saturday needs serious consideration.
Personally, I’m less concerned with country and care more about good golf. I want to see grueling matches come down to the wire and have the result decided on the penultimate or final match, regardless of the outcome or nation they represent. I also want to see the players shake hands and go have a beer after they’ve left everything on the course. I’m not getting that from the Presidents Cup.
I love the congeniality… I just don’t see a level playing field here. Do you?
Club Junkie
Tour Edge Exotics mini driver review + TaylorMade Spider ZT Max first look – Club Junkie
On this episode of Club Junkie, I put the new Tour Edge Exotics Mini Driver to the test and break down the performance, forgiveness, distance, and where it fits compared to a traditional driver or strong fairway wood. If you have been curious about adding a mini driver to the bag, this one is worth a look.
I also dive into the new TaylorMade Spider ZT Max putter that was recently spotted and discuss the growing zero torque putter trend. Plus, there is a closer look at the new Project X Titan Yellow shaft showing up on the PGA Tour and what makes it different from other profiles currently out there.
Opinion & Analysis
AVL: We’re talking about practice! My best tips for taking your game to the course
With the beginning of June on the horizon and courses rounding into peak condition for the season, it’s time to hone the finer skills that often get rusty over the winter. More sunlight also means more time to get out on the course and work on your game.
Whether it’s the practice green or the driving range, there’s always something to improve—whether you’re enjoying the fresh air or preparing for a weekend game or tournament. You can work on drills or freestyle around the green, and friendly competition is a great way to sharpen your skills.
While there are endless ways to get better at golf, I’m going to focus on practicing around the green. Let’s take a look at a few things to keep in mind as we head into the summer months.
Drills
From the driving range to the practice green, it’s important to incorporate drills into your routine. Years ago, I spent a weekend working on my short game with James Sieckmann. He recommended doing drill work for 5–10 minutes, then returning to your main practice.
This way, you create a balance between structured drills and real-world scenarios, so you’re not confined to “perfect” situations. For example, hitting the same three-foot putt over and over is good for repetition, but after a while, it becomes less interactive for your brain.
My approach is to use a putting trainer with a narrow gate for the ball to pass through, or simply place tees just outside the width of the ball. I’ll hit a series of four putts through the gate for three sets. Then, from a similar distance, I’ll hit four putts without the training aid and repeat that sequence three times.
Next, I’ll hit a number of 15–25 foot putts in a random fashion, then circle back to repeat the short putt drills with and without the training aid.
This breaks up the rhythm of hitting short putts with the training aid. When you hit the same short putts over and over, it’s easy to get into a groove—which is great for the drill, but not reflective of actual course play. While finding a rhythm is fundamental for drills, I like to introduce variation with longer putts to keep things realistic.
Game Mode
Once you’ve established a foundation with drills, it’s time to simulate on-course scenarios. This is where a few practice games come in handy.
One that I’ve been enjoying lately involves putting 10- to 15-footers with two balls. If I make the putt, great! If I miss, I pull the missed ball back a putter length. Suddenly, that little tap-in becomes a nerve-wracking three-footer—at least at first. As you get better at this game, those three- and five-footers become much more comfortable and routine.
It may sound cliché, but each shot is just what it is—it’s how we react that makes the difference. I like this game because it blends the pressure of on-course putting with the consequence of leaving yourself a much longer putt than usual.
Another game I like is one I recently learned from Brad Faxon. Place three tees in a line at four different locations around the hole: one at 3 feet, one at 6 feet, and one at 8 feet. The 3- and 6-foot putts count as par, and the 8-footer is for birdie.
This game keeps you focused on scoring and helps you get into a competitive mindset. You can even think about this putting game while you’re on the course. I just started playing it, and last week I couldn’t get better than two under par.
Competition
Competition during practice is when drills and games come to life, and you start to see results. For me, nothing beats a putting contest with a friend or two. In the right setting, these contests can become talking points for the whole season.
Match play, a game of 21, or simply seeing who can make the most one-putts (with a small prize on the line) are all great ways to simulate real on-course pressure. Recently, I played in a putting contest where one competitor made back-to-back 30- and 50-foot putts. As they say, expect your opponent to make every putt—and he nearly did. That’s impressive, and it’s something you see on the course, too: you have to stay committed to your game plan, no matter what.
When it comes to practice, it’s important to blend feedback from recent rounds with the fundamentals you want to reinforce. Drills, games, and competition—from the driving range to the putting green—form the backbone of skills you’ll rely on during actual rounds.
Finding the right balance is something we’re all working on, one practice session at a time. With the beginning of June on the horizon and courses rounding into peak condition for the season, it’s time to hone the finer skills that often get rusty over the winter. More sunlight also means more time to get out on the course and work on your game. Whether it’s the practice green or the driving range, there’s always something to improve—whether you’re enjoying the fresh air or preparing for a weekend game or tournament. You can work on drills or freestyle around the green, and friendly competition is a great way to sharpen your skills. While there are endless ways to get better at golf, I’m going to focus on practicing around the green. Let’s take a look at a few things to keep in mind as we head into the summer months.
Drills
From the driving range to the practice green, it’s important to incorporate drills into your routine. Years ago, I spent a weekend working on my short game with James Sieckmann. He recommended doing drill work for 5–10 minutes, then returning to your main practice. This way, you create a balance between structured drills and real-world scenarios, so you’re not confined to “perfect” situations. For example, hitting the same three-foot putt over and over is good for repetition, but after a while, it becomes less interactive for your brain.
My approach is to use a putting trainer with a narrow gate for the ball to pass through, or simply place tees just outside the width of the ball. I’ll hit a series of four putts through the gate for three sets. Then, from a similar distance, I’ll hit four putts without the training aid and repeat that sequence three times. Next, I’ll hit a number of 15–25 foot putts in a random fashion, then circle back to repeat the short putt drills with and without the training aid.
This breaks up the rhythm of hitting short putts with the training aid. When you hit the same short putts over and over, it’s easy to get into a groove—which is great for the drill, but not reflective of actual course play. While finding a rhythm is fundamental for drills, I like to introduce variation with longer putts to keep things realistic.
Game Mode
Once you’ve established a foundation with drills, it’s time to simulate on-course scenarios. This is where a few practice games come in handy. One that I’ve been enjoying lately involves putting 10- to 15-footers with two balls. If I make the putt, great! If I miss, I pull the missed ball back a putter length.
Suddenly, that little tap-in becomes a nerve-wracking three-footer—at least at first. As you get better at this game, those three- and five-footers become much more comfortable and routine. It may sound cliché, but each shot is just what it is—it’s how we react that makes the difference. I like this game because it blends the pressure of on-course putting with the consequence of leaving yourself a much longer putt than usual.
Another game I like is one I recently learned from Brad Faxon. Place three tees in a line at four different locations around the hole: one at 3 feet, one at 6 feet, and one at 8 feet. The 3- and 6-foot putts count as par, and the 8-footer is for birdie.
This game keeps you focused on scoring and helps you get into a competitive mindset. You can even think about this putting game while you’re on the course. I just started playing it, and last week I couldn’t get better than two under par.
Competition
Competition during practice is when drills and games come to life, and you start to see results. For me, nothing beats a putting contest with a friend or two. In the right setting, these contests can become talking points for the whole season. Match play, a game of 21, or simply seeing who can make the most one-putts (with a small prize on the line) are all great ways to simulate real on-course pressure. Recently, I played in a putting contest where one competitor made back-to-back 30- and 50-foot putts. As they say, expect your opponent to make every putt—and he nearly did. That’s impressive, and it’s something you see on the course, too: you have to stay committed to your game plan, no matter what.
When it comes to practice, it’s important to blend feedback from recent rounds with the fundamentals you want to reinforce. Drills, games, and competition—from the driving range to the putting green—form the backbone of skills you’ll rely on during actual rounds. Finding the right balance is something we’re all working on, one practice session at a time.
Equipment
Seoul Sensibilities: Is Korean golf fashion starting to shape the world?
For Korean golfers, we always look forward to the last of the kkot-saem-chu-I for the true start of a new golf season. The term refers to a cold snap, but literally translates as “winter being jealous of the flowers beginning to bloom, thus lashing out one final time before surrendering to spring”.
A rather poetic mouthful packed into a short expression.
Koreans can be like that. Understated, yet oddly expressive at the same time. And nowhere is this more true on the golf course and in our golf bags. In fact, I suspect many Korean golfers look forward to new apparel and accessory drops more than they do actual equipment launches each year.

At this point, Korean golf fashion may exist on its own timeline. (courtesy of @seonbi_golfer)
There is ample evidence to support that suspicion. Korea is the world’s third-largest golf market behind the United States and Japan, yet its appetite for golf apparel exceeds that of both countries combined. Recent estimates suggest that Korea accounts for nearly 40 percent of the global golf apparel market, placing it among the world’s most influential golf fashion markets and punching well above its size.
Simply, we care deeply about how new golf clubs look and feel, but enjoy looking good while swinging them even more.
Golfers in the West may laugh and say that golf is played on a course, not a fashion runway. Perhaps. But what’s the harm in trying to look and feel good, if the added self-confidence can help actual performance? It certainly seems to have worked for Jason Day, who may have unlocked a new stats category: dormant strokes gained. Coincidence?

During the COVID-era, estimates placed the market near $9 billion, an astonishing figure for a single country.
As a proud member of Gen X, I’ve witnessed the highs and lows of golf fashion firsthand. The pleated trousers and wing-tipped shoes of Jack Nicklaus, the stylish plus-fours and knickers of Payne Stewart, the baggy black trousers and fitted mock-necks of Tiger Woods, and the thigh-hugging athletic tailoring of Rory McIlroy. Golf fashion, like the golf swing itself, has rarely stood still.
But nowhere have those trends shifted, evolved, and been scrutinized quite as relentlessly as in Korea. Here, golf fashion moves faster than fairway gossip, and consumers dissect brands with a level of discernment that can be both impressive and mildly terrifying. New brands are studied, judged, embraced, or dismissed with startling efficiency.
The result is a consumer base with one of the sharpest eyes for quality and authenticity anywhere in the world. It is difficult to quantify, but easy to recognize. Clean lines without trying too hard. Luxury mixed with utility. Trend awareness balanced by restraint and purpose.
It’s golf fashion shaped by one of the world’s most style-literate cities, something I like to call Seoul Sensibilities, referring to the taste level forged by a uniquely competitive environment.
And increasingly, global brands have noticed.

Many golf brands in Korea have their own flagship shops dedicated to apparel only
Titleist understood this years ago, when its apparel business in Korea took on a life of its own under new ownership and local direction. What had once been a straightforward extension of an iconic equipment giant became something sharper and more premium. By going all in on the serious Tour-player look (I couldn’t even fit into their XL sizes), Titleist struck the right chord with Korean consumers and helped its fledgling apparel business break into the mainstream. Titleist became a household name even for non-golfers who wore its caps, shirts, and windbreakers in daily life. In many ways, it proved that even heritage golf brands could carry real fashion credibility when viewed through a Korean lens.
Several years later, PXG took a page out of Titleist’s playbook and followed suit. Korean consumers helped transform the brand from one known largely for irons and loud commercials into something broader and more stylish. PXG apparel’s growth in Korea was explosive, where it found an early audience and turned the category into something more than mere logo merchandise. It is still hard to walk anywhere in Seoul without seeing its palindrome logo.
Malbon’s meteoric rise in the United States was genuine, but its ascent into a global golf lifestyle brand owes much to Korea, where it was elevated by a market already fluent in modern golf style. Korea did not simply embrace Malbon. It pressure-tested the concept, refined its appeal, and helped push it into the global spotlight.
As such, new brands may arrive from abroad, but more often than not, their sharpest evolution happens here. If a brand can earn credibility in Seoul, it’s deemed to have passed one of the toughest style audits in the game.
That is why the next meaningful chapter may not come from outside, but from a Korean brand moving in the opposite direction, carrying those Seoul Sensibilities outward as K-pop once did.

Play young Stay dope.
From Seoul, With Intent
Khalhon is a label that feels less like a trend-chasing newcomer and more like the product of a market that has already seen everything. Golfers here have long been surrounded by luxury logos, technical fabrics, and tour uniforms disguised as lifestyle wear and vice-versa. In other words, novelty alone rarely lasts here, and the Koreans seems to understand that instinctively.
Its style language leans into clean silhouettes, relaxed but tailored proportions, muted palettes, and premium materials that speak quietly but confidently. There is a modern city aesthetic running through it all, with strong layering pieces, thoughtful textures, and subtle branding that suggests sophistication rather than demanding attention.

“Built for the course. Designed beyond it.”
Most importantly, the garments seem designed to blur the line between golfwear and everyday style. Shirts, trousers, knitwear, and outer layers move comfortably between a game of screen golf, a lunch reservation, an airport gate, or an afternoon coffee in Gangnam with friends.
It raises the question of whether this is golfwear that happens to look good off the course, or everyday clothing that performs beautifully on the fairways.
Personally, I have long appreciated Nike Golf for its clean, athletic modernization of golf attire. It also has the useful side effect of making me look like a more serious golfer than I probably am. But off the course, there are times when being instantly identified as the golf guy in a crowd of non-golfers can feel a touch self-conscious.

“Built for the course. Designed beyond it.”
That is part of what drew me to Khalhon, which seemed to blend golf and everyday wear naturally. While some of the outfits may be slightly beyond my personal confidence level, the brand also offers tasteful options for older guys like me who still want to express a little personality without regretting the decision later.
These are not simply flashy outfits worn on the course and then banished to the closet until the next tee time. They work surprisingly well off the course too, and I suspect many of the pieces will still look right a couple of years from now, which would certainly be kinder to my wallet than most golf fashion trends tend to be.
And perhaps that broader lifestyle positioning also helps explain why someone like Sean Wotherspoon would find Khalhon creatively interesting in the first place.

“Built for the course. Designed beyond it.”
“Korea is not only one of the most fashion-forward golf markets in the world, but one of the most fashion-forward markets globally. Korea is ahead, and I love to watch and try to catch up.” – Sean Wotherspoon, Creative Director at Khalhon
Seoul and Beyond
If Khalhon’s rise says something about where Korean golf fashion is today, its relationship with Sean Wotherspoon says even more about where it is heading.
For readers less familiar with Sean Wotherspoon, his arrival at Khalhon is not some routine celebrity endorsement or influencer collaboration. In design and streetwear circles, Wotherspoon is regarded as one of the more influential creative voices of his generation, particularly when it comes to blending nostalgia, storytelling, and contemporary culture into products that people can connect with.
He first gained widespread attention through his now-famous Nike sneaker collaborations, where his vintage-inspired designs and instinct for color helped turn him into one of the defining artists of the late-2010s sneaker era. His work gradually expanded beyond footwear into apparel, automotive collaborations, collectibles, and broader lifestyle design.
Modern golf style now extends well beyond the fairways, where performance and functionality are largely expected by default. And while plenty of brands already make technically competent golfwear, Khalhon seems more focused on designing clothes people would genuinely want to wear even after the round ends.
And when guys at Wotherspoon’s level show genuine interest in working with a Korean golf brand as its new Creative Director, fashion circles tend to sit up and pay attention. There’s already a huge buzz among the fashion-conscious here about upcoming collabs with iconic sports stars and brands.

“My creative direction for Khalhon is disruptive, colorful, nostalgic, and modern. My goal is to blend these avenues seamlessly within each collection.” – Sean Wotherspoon
In chatting with Sean, what stood out most to me was how genuinely energized he sounded about the project itself. Despite having already worked across and countless other creative spaces, he described golf as a completely fresh category for him, saying that Khalhon “will be an amazing vehicle for my design work.”
At the same time, his enthusiasm seemed tied just as much to Korea itself. He spoke openly about admiring Korea’s fashion culture while repeatedly insisting he is still a terrible golfer.
There was something oddly refreshing about that humility. Rather than sounding like a celebrity parachuting into golf simply because the category suddenly became fashionable, Sean sounded genuinely curious about what Korea might do with the category next.
And perhaps that is what makes Khalhon feel interesting right now. The brand feels less like a trend-chaser and more like the natural result of a market now confident enough to export its own point of view.
For years, global brands came to Korea to sharpen their image against one of the most discerning audiences anywhere. Now, a Korean label appears ready to send those Seoul Sensibilities outward instead.
Which brings us back to kkot-saem-chu-i.
That final cold snap before spring always arrives with a reminder that seasons are changing, whether we notice it immediately or not. Golf fashion feels a little like that right now as well, as the old boundaries between sport, streetwear, luxury, and everyday style continue to soften.
And somewhere in Seoul, a Korean golf label already seems prepared for whatever season comes next. I just hope they have everything in my size.
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Peter
Oct 7, 2017 at 6:12 am
I was at the 1998 Presidents Cup where the much vaunted USA team was beaten 20 1/2 to 11 1/2 at the next overseas (2019) venue, Royal Melbourne. The teams that year in World golf rankings order were;
Tiger Woods (1). Ernie Els (5)
Mark O’Meara (2). Nick Price (6)
David Duval (3). Vijay Singh (9)
Davis Love (4) Steve Elkington (16)
Phil Michelson (10). Greg Norman (18)
Fred Couples (11). Stuart Appleby (33)
Jim Furyk (12). Carlos Franco (39)
Justin Leonard 15). Shigeki Maruyama (43)
Scott Hoch (20). Craig Parry (53)
Mark Calcavechia (21). Joe Ozaki (55)
Lee Janzen (23). Frank Nobilo (60)
John Huston (29). Greg Turner (62)
The most points won by a player that year was Shigeki Maruyama (5) followed by the Elk with 4. Best of the Americans was Couples with 2 1/2. The International team had a 9 point lead going into the singles!
Why did a team so talented as the USA team get smashed? A tough unfamiliar golf course that they obviously took for granted! A strong ethic with great leadership from both within and outside of the International team (Peter Thomson, Greg Norman, Nick Price) resulted in a team that bonded well. Great local support from an enthusiastic but fair spectator army raised the standard of the Internationals to where the lesser players believed they could compete and win!
If you want to make the Presidents Cup more competitive, play it away from the USA more often! International golf would benefit and the comp would be closer! Standard US PGA tour venues like this year’s are only going to widen the gap between the teams!
BD57
Oct 6, 2017 at 8:45 pm
starting point to restructure the President’s Cup, IMO – shorten the bench, lessen the points.
There’s no “rule” that says it has to be 12 man teams; for the Internationals, going to 12 means they’re going to get hammered by lack of depth.
(Of course, this year they would’ve gotten hammered no matter what).
Cut the teams to 10, or even 8.
If you wanted to play three four-balls and three foursomes the first two days, and then 8 singles the last day, you could, although the public would probably like to see everyone play every match.
Gorden
Oct 5, 2017 at 10:08 am
Ryder Cup good, Presidents Cup seems way to one sided. Want to really get some pressure on America add the Asian Women to the Solhiem Cup.
RMF
Oct 5, 2017 at 9:11 am
Ryder Cup Flag waving is something the Americans brought to the event, I think it was when they spent the best part of the last 3 decades getting spanked by Europe. They didn’t like it one bit
Competition with an edge is good for the game, how many people on here don’t joke around on the course, before and after… 0% that’s what I thought.
bellisaurius
Oct 5, 2017 at 6:23 am
It’s a lot easier to be friendly and congenial when you’re up a couple points. The closer the competition, the harder the two sides are going to go at it.
Chris B
Oct 4, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Generally the Ryder Cup is played in good spirits but it clearly has boiled over. Kiawah was the worst that I have seen with balls being kicked out on to the fairway, Seve’s cough and the ball swapping disagreement. Brookline was really bad at the end, and I really didn’t like the bowing last time round from a couple of our guys.
But, this event seems to take some guys to another level and the standard of the golf is usually beyond what you see during the regular season. maybe it needs that edge to it.
Rano
Oct 4, 2017 at 4:52 am
Other than when certain immature fans stoop unnecessarily low in their goading of opposition players, I don’t see the problem in the fact that the Ryder Cup has a bit of edge to it. It’s what makes the contest a sepectacle, and the reason why it attracts viewers who would ordinarily not sit and watch golf for hours.
The President’s Cup on the other hand, is a damp squib and flawed from the start. The International Team is not a team. It’s a group of random players, from different countries, cultures, languages and tours thrown together for a few days. It’s not all bad though, it has at least generated quite a lot of money for charity.
NG
Oct 4, 2017 at 1:23 am
Clearly we don’t need the President’s Cup any more. All that time and money should be spent on helping disaster areas and not wasted on golf by the President
michael
Oct 4, 2017 at 8:27 am
wut
Greg V
Oct 3, 2017 at 1:42 pm
Good comment about the Ryder Cup. It all starts with the pregame pageantry, which is way over the top. Too much party, too much production. Really, military jets flying overhead?
At some point the Rest of the World will have excellent golfers who may dominate US players – it could happen.
I would like to see the Presidents Cup retired, and have a Ryder Cup continue with 3 teams – US, Europe, Rest of. If your team wins, you play the next year against the other team. YEs, a superior team could play every year for 5 or 6 years, but isn’t that what the US does currently?
Of course, that will never happen because these things are made for TV. There would be little interest (ie, no sponsorship interest) in the US in the years that the Rest of played Europe.
boomroasted
Oct 3, 2017 at 11:48 am
You can’t really ask for chemistry on the international side. They don’t all speak English well, they probably don’t spend as much time together on tour, and it’s probably more motivating to play for YOUR country like the U.S, or at least Europe where there is a cultural root, rather than just being all grouped together from god knows where. I think they’re just less fired up than Europeans in general, but it’s not really their fault. They don’t even get home-field advantage in a true sense, it’s a foreign country for the majority of the internationals. Plus for now, the U.S. has way more talented golfers to choose from and gets to play and build chemistry every year so the internationals are at a disadvantage from the start.
Hard to become a good golfer anywhere other than the U.S, parts of Europe and Australia, unless you’re rich or gifted or both, so the talent pool is going to be narrow to begin with for the internationals. Maybe in 10-20 years when Golf grows in Asia and beyond, we might see more competitive teams.
Chris Maddison
Oct 3, 2017 at 11:41 am
“That would be unthinkable in today’s competition.” — umm, what about Tiger giving Molinari the putt to win the RC outright 5 years ago?
The RC is played with great sportsmanship over the last twenty years. Only the incidents at Brookline and Kiwah were over-the-top.
It is what makes the RC so appealing, they play hard but they play fair. The perfect example of this was Rory and Paddy on the 8th green. This fist bump as they walked off was everything the RC is about.
99.9% of the fans in 2015 were perfectly behaved. They got excited, they cheered and they booed which added to the atmosphere. The ‘bitterness’ you refer to is such a small minority it isn’t even worth talking about.
peeny
Oct 3, 2017 at 2:16 pm
Disagree – the bitterness is very much there and far more than a minority (at least when it is being played on US soil). I don’t understand the need for screaming with excitement when the opposition make a bad shot. A win at all costs mentality with spectatorship being flung out the window.