How do we think of ourselves?, Help me understand how we think of ourselves Options

[smith5606]

I can't help myself. I have an academic's need to explore, classify, and understand the world. Help me understand our immediate world - namely, how golfers see themselves relative to other golfers. After hanging around this site as a "lurker" for a while and a more active participant for a shorter period of time, it seems to me that most GolfWRXers could be classified along a continuum that would look something like this (depending on the issue, of course):


1 - - - - - - - 2 - - - - - - - 3 - - - - - - - 4 - - - - - - - 5

Where:

1 Definite "Old schooler"

3 Modernist

5 "New Wave"

There are several issues that I am interested in that could be measured. I'd like to start off with the broadest catagory - how we see ourselves, in general. After you respond to the poll, tell me why you have placed yourself in one of these catagories. If you have a better classificatin scheme, let me know as well. The names of my end points and middle catagory are arbitrary but are simply a place to start the conversation. If this works out well, we can extend this to other areas. I think that we will find the information very interesting. I hope so, anyway.

(For those among us who are into such things, this survey is obviously just for fun as it probably has significant internal and external validity issues. Interpretation of the responses is probably not generalizable but is just an indication of the population of this site which is probably not representative of the entire population of golfers. If may be representative of that class of very active, technologically savvy golfers that have definite, informated opinions on several issues, making our responses very suggestive of current and future trends.)

With your patience, let's give this a try.

Thanks for your help.

This post has been edited by smith5606: Feb 6 2009, 06:10 AM

[MrJones]

I replied to the poll as a "2" but only because I assumed what you meant by the different categories.

I wouldn't classify myself as an old school golfer mostly because, even though I prefer to play that way, I'm willing to play with just about anyone as long as they have respect for the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I took "new age" golfer as some of these young guys that go out in their flip flops (not even the kinds they make for golf), take their ever lovin sweet time strolling down the fairway, and pretty much are all about themselves and their image on the course rather than the game.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I like holding on to tradition, not only of my culture but of all cultures so that they don't just fade away.

[highergr0und]

I can't classify myself until you provide definitions for the three groups. Some people think old school is hickory shafts and sand in lieu of tees, some say balata and persimmon, and others think it's just pre-460 cc heads and composite irons. The only thing I can think "New Wave" would be is narcissistic spoon fed cry babies that whine when they think a course is too hard or the weather hurt them but helped others. Maybe the groups should be Jones, Hogan, Nicklaus, Tiger, and Sergio.

[pingman360]

i classified myself as a new wave...

this is the way i look at it... i use S & T which in older times would be considered a terrible thing to do... course management is more along the lines of the newer way of thinking... i am in my 5th year of playing... and everything about me is just part of the "new wave" i guess you could say... i think in some areas im a bit old fashioned... for instance... i keep clubs a long time, i mean if it works why change... ive had the driver sine June 07' so i mean driver is prob the most changed and its been that long... so in that way i guess i think a bit old school

[callawayfan]

i put a 5 in the poll only because im only 16 and wear some of the more "european" golf clothes

but when it comes to the rules and tradition of the game then im pretty old school

[MrParr1Noid]

By your polling standards, I'd guess myself to be somewhat modern. I like all the new equipment, all the new technology, I'm willing to try anything new and innovative...Cept maybe putters.

I like the old style wooded courses, some links styles are nice, and I wouldn't ever want to give up our today's golf ball technology, not ever.

My swing has evolved from the likes of Hogan to Craig Parry. Things happen as we evolve (get old) and our bodies become less flexible, and our bodies begin to take shape (get fat).

I welcome each and every golfing day with enthusiasm, keeping modern aids in keeping me enthused.

[freddiec]

Mr Smith,
I would say I'm a "1". I started playing when I was 13 around 1981. It was Love at first sight for me. I do come from a big golfing family. I was never a country club boy , but caddied and worked at a prestigious club that hosted US Opens for a long time in the 80s and early 90s. I also got to caddy in two of them. When I was a freshman in High School I had the lowest 9 hole average of 38.7 I think it was, so I was a pretty good player, playing staff irons and persimmon woods. I consider myself extremely fortunate to experience what I did as a kid working at the club and associating myself with the folks I did. My mentors growing up at that age were 1st class Pros, some who played the Tour in the 70s. Others worked at Top clubs and were top teachers. My fascination with Mac Persimmons grew at that time because all those guys has the Best persimmons (Tour quality type stuff) as well as Irons and they were the ones I always wanted to play. I saw some incridible clubs back then. I hung around with these guys, often after hours and heard tons of 1st hand stories of the old days. I knew a guy who played tour with Trevino and others in the 70s. These experiences had a huge impact on me in regards to what I thought about the game as well gave me a huge appreciation for history and tradition. During my teen years and working at the club I worked hard on my game. I was able to play golf 2 to 3 times a week, most of time with one of Pros. I guess it was like Playing lessons old school. It was One of the perks, which was priceless. Those experiences and the golf I played at that time is where my golf roots were formed.

I'd say one of my biggest thrills was watching the US Open in Brookline, Ma in the late 80s. During a practice round my brother and I pulled Crenshaw over to the ropes after he came out of the poddy. He had made a visit up to the course we worked at the day before and drove a cart around to see the D.Ross track. We asked him how he like it, he sat there for about 15 to 20 seconds and chatted with us. He's a Historian of the game as I feel I am.

This post has been edited by freddiec: Feb 5 2009, 07:14 PM

[Bobbers]

I've played since the early '60's. I'd call myself a 2, perhaps I'm really a 1 and just not comfortable with the extreme (how's THAT for your error of central tendency? lol). I grew up watching some of the people I still think of as the greats of the game. Seeing Nicklaus conceding a putt, Arnie's exuberance, Ray Floyd's intensity, the showmanship of a Trevino or a Rodriguez. I've never played a round of golf, nor have I practiced, and not felt better for the experience. A chance to be with people I enjoy (most of the time-beware the Sunday singleton-), a chance to compete with myself, the course, the weather. Not to be misunderstood, I love the technology of the game and have everything from hickory shafted clubs and a gutta percha ball from the latest and greatest laying around. That spectrum of equipment, that 'arc' of technology that's employed manually, can't beat it for appreciating the history of the sport, at least in my book.

[mikpga]

Didn't have an "All of the Above" category...

I can't limit myself to just one...

There's a lot of wisdom in what we call "old school"...

But, I'm very familiar with "new wave"...

So if I take the average of 1 and 5, I suppose I'm a 3!

[finalist]

define the numbers. details please

[TitleistWI]

I would say that Im a 2. I have a deep respect for the history and traditions of this game and I have little time for the bright, colorful outfits and the oversized belt buckles that a lot of people wear today and to me, square drivers are just plain weird
My golf style definetly leans more towards Payne Stewart than Ian Poulter.

This post has been edited by Bakemono: Feb 5 2009, 05:33 PM

[Blues Golfer]

I guess I'm old school, but it's kinda relative.

Try this on for size.

You are old school if...

a) you know why Bobby Jones is still the benchmark for Tiger, even now
b) you know why Arnie was loved and Jack was not, until much later
c) you think A.K. should tone it down a little with the belt buckle.

You are a modern if...

a) you never owned a persimmon
b) you never played a muscle back hand-me-down
c) who is Davis Love III again?

You are a new wave if

a) You think people are hard on Michelle Wie
b) You don't think a grand is a lot to spend on clubs.
c) There was golf before Tiger, but it was not very good.


I think I'm more traditionalist than old school. I walk, I carry a double-strap stand bag, own clubs less than 10 years old (or about that old), know my golf history, respect women golfers, and want slow play to be a second-degree felony. I've adapted to keep up with the game, but maybe the fact that I have adapted...makes me old school, somehow?

[smith5606]

Thank you to everyone who participated in the survey. The results are very interesting. It seems to indicate that most people who participated think of themselves as somewhere between the lowest point and the mid-point which I somewhat arbitrarily labeled "Old School" and "Modern". As some of you noted, I did not define what defined an Old School golfer, a "Modern" golfer and a "New Wave" golfer. That was intentional.

See you next week with Part 2.

[jirizarry]

I consider myself a modern golfer as far equipment and technology is concerned.
Definitely old school for rules and etiquette. NOBODY who truly loves this game can be anything but old school in that aspect.

J.R.

[projamie]

I went 5... I wear J. Lindberg, had a full argument with my friend for not wearing a JL belt a few weeks back, am wearing JL as i type this, play flashy shafts, think a club looks cool if it has "tour" on it, think Camilo Villegas and Sergio are the two best golfers on this planet right now...

But i still own Classic shoes, game a 30 year Ping Answer from time to time, enjoy 9 holes by myself at 8 oclock in the summer, like ripping a 4 iron blade off of a crisp fairway...

I do think people are too hard on Michelle Wie, dont think a grand is alot to spend on clubs, and lets face it, the guys these days make golf exciting! Tigers one of them!

I guess its just the times in which we are bought up...

[G134]

I voted for "3" Modernist. Equipment-wise I am leaning towards a "5". When it comes to the swing, I am more of "2" or "3". For everything else, I am mostly a old-school. Except I do think people are too hard on Wie.

[stage1350]

I refuse to debase myself down to a number.

[2659edward]

I refuse to debase myself down to a number.

Thanks, 1350. LOL

I voted "modern" but, I am probably a mix of a all. I have been playing over 40 years. Still have a set of Powerbuilt Citation Persimmon/blades waiting
for a refresh. Every club in my bag as been replaced in the last 6 mos. And yesterday I was at Golfsmith trying to find a belt to match my new shirt.

This post has been edited by 2659edward: Feb 8 2009, 05:01 PM

[mat562]

I'm a solid 2.

I don't resort to wearing tweed and using hickory shafts, but I still got excited when Greg Norman looked like lifting another claret jug and if I sit and watch any golf I'm as likely to stick a video on of something from the 80s or 90s as I am to watch anything live.

I still think going to the golf club or course entails looking smart and presentable and I toe the line fashion-wise without going all out to make a fashion statement or to wear something that blatantly says 'look at me.' I still think it's perfectly normal to take the dogs for a walk whilst playing an evening 9 holes and I still address the captain as 'Mr Captain' when I bump into him, even though I know his name. I actually buff up my golf shoes with boot dressing to make them nice and smart before I play, and invariably any rig that I'm wearing is clean, pressed, and has creases in it that you could cut a finger on. White belts are fine in my book - as long as your name is Elvis and you're on a stage in Las Vegas.

I still use older clubs for the most part and tend to stick with the same clubs in play for years rather than weeks. I'm deeply suspicious of anything that claims it'll give me any extra yards, and I couldn't care less if my clubs are eight generations out of date as long as I hit them well and score low with them. I don't like any sort of medallions or unnecessary frippery on my clubs and less is more when it comes to aesthetics for me. I think it would be a great idea to roll back the golf ball, distance-wise, and I reckon that smaller drivers would also be a good move for the big boys and top amateurs.

I think that using a long or belly putter is borderline cheating and if I ever got the yips I'd pack it in rather than use one.

Lastly, I still have an alarming jewfro hairstyle not unlike Michael Knight's and if I pull into the car park near you you'll hear the dulcet tones of something from the 1980s on the CD player in my car. Which is a Volvo. Estate. But a quick one. Despite being neither fat nor camp, I also have a penchant for patterned or hawaiian shirts when I dress casually which, when worn open over my customary white T-shirt, make me look alarmingly like a thin version of Michael Talbott's Det. Stan Switek out of Miami Vice when I do the shopping. So I'm told.

As I say, a 2.

This post has been edited by mat562: Feb 8 2009, 05:27 PM

[dlehmann84]

As mentioned initially by the original postee, this is a flawed system, but i do respect the mans foresight into this sociology "experiment". everyone, even those who say they cannot classify themselves, do in fact place a number by their name....and this does, in turn, give validity to this survey. As though in fact i believe 90 percent of the people in here actually qualify as at least a 4....first of all, look at the means we are communicating by? how many "old school" golfers conversed in an online forum? and just because you are "new wave" doesn't mean you have forgotten about the past. i consider myself a 5, but only because i try to take everything my father and grandfather taught me about this blessed, phenomenol game we all love so much, and i apply it everyday i am on the course. i always repair my ball mark plus 1 more, i always shake hands with my hat removed on the 18 and usually 36th green for the day. i even get my when my girlfriend talks in an opponents backswing. (or a strangers backswing) i play with integrity, never walk in someones line, i love and respect this game so much its an obsession, but yet i think AK and wie are the s***, ill let lose a fist pump or a tiger "roar" if the situation calls for it. but yet i play blades and love to play by feel and working the ball. i always dress in slacks and a nike golf shirt, and im only 24....so be honest, dont we all fall into this category? and is it such a bad thing to mix the old with the new? isn't that in fact how we progress as a civilization? by taking the lessons learned from our forefathers and applying it to situations they couldnt conceive of? is not not in fact darwinism at its best? 460 cc heads, PX or kbs tour shafts, dri fit technology.......the most beautiful picture in golf is a father and son walking down the fairway together, and by doing so....dont we all qualify as "new wave" and again, i repeat, is that such a bad thing?