Opinion & Analysis
What is “effective bounce” anyway?
Effective bounce sounds like a good description for what happens when a wedge shot works well, e.g. “he used the bounce effectively with that shot.” The phrase is more often used to describe how a wedge sole interacts with the turf, but it hasn’t often been defined. My aim with this article is to explain effective bounce and how to decide what sole design will work for you.
The purpose of a golf company’s educational material is to try to take fairly complex physics and explain it in a way that is simple and relatable, but still captures the basic meaning. This is a LOT easier said than done.
For wedges, bounce angle has traditionally been held up as the best attribute to explain how the complex geometry of a given wedge sole, delivered by a certain player, interacting with a particular kind of turf, will affect ball flight. Clearly this is a very intricate dynamic that we’re trying to simplify as best as possible to make a useful point.
Generally, a low bounce angle implies a sharper, blade-like impact that cuts through turf easily, whereas a wedge with high bounce angle has a more blunt impact. Our testing shows that when a club either doesn’t get into the turf sufficiently, or it digs in to the turf a lot, it leads to inconsistent shot making. It follows that a player with a swing that causes the wedge to dig too much will benefit from a wedge with more bounce. Conversely, a player who sweeps the club over the turf will get more consistent results with a wedge with less bounce.
Figure 1: 2 wedges with the same actual bounce angle (13 degrees) but different primary sole widths. As a result, the effective bounce numbers are very different.
There is, however, a lot more to a wedge sole shape than just the angle of the lead edge. Figure 1 shows two wedge sole designs from the toe view. Their measured bounce angles are identical, but one wedge has a much wider and deeper principal sole section. The back section of the sole, where it starts to rise up after the low point, doesn’t affect the initial ground impact, so it is not really part of the playable width.
The two wedges in Figure 1 will interact with the turf very differently, so just using a bounce angle to define a wedge sole is not sufficient. The wedge on the left, which has a thinner sole, will cut through turf more easily; the one on the right will avoid digging.
So, how do we communicate this? By putting an arbitrary number to it and calling it “effective bounce” or “plays-like bounce”.
Most companies these days, including Ping, don’t quote a measured bounce angle. We all use the term “effective bounce.” It’s a communication tool more than a scientific term. But since there’s no real definition or standard for this number, there’s a lot of variation in effective bounce numbers among golf companies. Ping’s 8-degree effective bounce wedge, for example, is probably a lot different from another company’s 8-degree effective bounce wedge. For this reason, there may be other measurements that are more intuitive and less open to interpretation.
Going back to Figure 1, the more visible and measurable attribute to use is the width of the principal sole section. This is easier to see and can be measured and compared from club to club. Sole width is not a perfect description of a wedge’s sole design, but it gives the golfer a better measure to use for comparison. To classify the sole of a wedge, you really need to know both bounce angle and sole width. Our Glide Thin Sole 60-degree wedge actually has 20 degrees of measured bounce angle, but an “effective bounce” of only 6 degrees. The main reason is the thin, 0.5-inch-wide sole. If you are just going to classify a wedge sole with a single number, the measured width is a more intuitive and comparable number than effective bounce angle. Simply put, a thin sole equates well with low effective bounce while a wide sole equates well with high effective bounce.
So, what kind of sole should you play? I often hear people say that better golfers play less bounce and higher-handicap players need more bounce. This isn’t really true. The fitting question comes down to club delivery and turf conditions.
Most players deliver a high-lofted wedge with something between -2 and -12 degrees angle of attack, and a shaft forward lean between about 4 degrees and 14 degrees. This is a very wide range.
Figure 2 (below) shows the same thin-sole wedge being delivered by two different elite-level golfers at Ping. The player on the left delivers the club with hands quite neutral and a shallow attack angle. On the right, the club is delivered with the hands well forward and a steep attack angle.
The sole interacts with the turf very differently. In the first case, the sole hits the ground with a very glancing blow, and despite the downward force at impact (ball goes up, club is forced down) it will not dig too much. In the second case, the lead edge of the sole presents a much sharper target to the turf and will tend to dig much more. For this second golfer, the thin sole presented in the picture will dig too much and a wide sole (with more effective bounce) will present a blunter target to the turf and be much more consistent.
Figure 2: The same thin sole wedge at impact with 2 very different types of swing.
There are many ways to swing a wedge. Even among our tour players there is a sizeable range from shallow to steep. If we made one sole design to cover both ends of the spectrum, it couldn’t be optimized for everyone. Often a top player will change their wedge for the course conditions.
A good example is Angel Cabrera. He has played Glide wedges with each of the thin, standard and wide soles on different weeks depending on the course conditions. It may actually be worth thinking about having a couple of different options in the most lofted wedge to switch out on harder or softer courses.
I always encourage people to get an expert fitting for these important scoring clubs, or at the very least demo a couple of different effective bounce options on real turf where possible.
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19th Hole
Vincenzi’s LIV Golf Singapore betting preview: Course specialist ready to thrive once again
After another strong showing in Australia, LIV Golf will head to Sentosa Golf Club in Singapore looking to build off of what was undoubtedly their best event to date.
Sentosa Golf Club sits on the southern tip of Singapore and is one of the most beautiful courses in the world. The course is more than just incredible scenically; it was also rated 55th in Golf Digest’s top-100 courses in 2022-2023 and has been consistently regarded as one of the best courses in Asia. Prior to being part of the LIV rotation, the course hosted the Singapore Open every year since 2005.
Sentosa Golf Club is a par 71 measuring 7,406 yards. The course will require precise ball striking and some length off the tee. It’s possible to go low due to the pristine conditions, but there are also plenty of hazards and difficult spots on the course that can bring double bogey into play in a hurry. The Bermudagrass greens are perfectly manicured, and the course has spent millions on the sub-air system to keep the greens rolling fast. I spoke to Asian Tour player, Travis Smyth, who described the greens as “the best [he’s] ever played.”
Davis Love III, who competed in a Singapore Open in 2019, also gushed over the condition of the golf course.
“I love the greens. They are fabulous,” the 21-time PGA Tour winner said.
Love III also spoke about other aspects of the golf course.
“The greens are great; the fairways are perfect. It is a wonderful course, and it’s tricky off the tee.”
“It’s a long golf course, and you get some long iron shots. It takes somebody hitting it great to hit every green even though they are big.”
As Love III said, the course can be difficult off the tee due to the length of the course and the trouble looming around every corner. It will take a terrific ball striking week to win at Sentosa Golf Club.
In his pre-tournament press conference last season, Phil Mickelson echoed many of the same sentiments.
“To play Sentosa effectively, you’re going to have a lot of shots from 160 to 210, a lot of full 6-, 7-, 8-iron shots, and you need to hit those really well and you need to drive the ball well.”
Golfers who excel from tee to green and can dial in their longer irons will have a massive advantage this week.
Stat Leaders at LIV Golf Adelaide:
Fairways Hit
1.) Louis Oosthuizen
2.) Anirban Lahiri
3.) Jon Rahm
4.) Brendan Steele
5.) Cameron Tringale
Greens in Regulation
1.) Brooks Koepka
2.) Brendan Steele
3.) Dean Burmester
4.) Cameron Tringale
5.) Anirban Lahiri
Birdies Made
1.) Brendan Steele
2.) Dean Burmester
3.) Thomas Pieters
4.) Patrick Reed
5.) Carlos Ortiz
LIV Golf Individual Standings:
1.) Joaquin Niemann
2.) Jon Rahm
3.) Dean Burmester
4.) Louis Oosthuizen
5.) Abraham Ancer
LIV Golf Team Standings:
1.) Crushers
2.) Legion XIII
3.) Torque
4.) Stinger GC
5.) Ripper GC
LIV Golf Singapore Picks
Sergio Garcia +3000 (DraftKings)
Sergio Garcia is no stranger to Sentosa Golf Club. The Spaniard won the Singapore Open in 2018 by five strokes and lost in a playoff at LIV Singapore last year to scorching hot Talor Gooch. Looking at the course setup, it’s no surprise that a player like Sergio has played incredible golf here. He’s long off the tee and is one of the better long iron players in the world when he’s in form. Garcia is also statistically a much better putter on Bermudagrass than he is on other putting surfaces. He’s putt extremely well on Sentosa’s incredibly pure green complexes.
This season, Garcia has two runner-up finishes, both of them being playoff losses. Both El Camaleon and Doral are courses he’s had success at in his career. The Spaniard is a player who plays well at his tracks, and Sentosa is one of them. I believe Sergio will get himself in the mix this week. Hopefully the third time is a charm in Singapore.
Paul Casey +3300 (FanDuel)
Paul Casey is in the midst of one of his best seasons in the five years or so. The results recently have been up and down, but he’s shown that when he’s on a golf course that suits his game, he’s amongst the contenders.
This season, Casey has finishes of T5 (LIV Las Vegas), T2 (LIV Hong Kong), and a 6th at the Singapore Classic on the DP World Tour. At his best, the Englishman is one of the best long iron players in the world, which makes him a strong fit for Sentosa. Despite being in poor form last season, he was able to fire a Sunday 63, which shows he can low here at the course.
It’s been three years since Casey has won a tournament (Omega Dubai Desert Classic in 2021), but he’s been one of the top players on LIV this season and I think he can get it done at some point this season.
Mito Pereira +5000 (Bet365)
Since Mito Pereira’s unfortunate demise at the 2022 PGA Championship, he’s been extremely inconsistent. However, over the past few months, the Chilean has played well on the International Series as well as his most recent LIV start. Mito finished 8th at LIV Adelaide, which was his best LIV finish this season.
Last year, Pereira finished 5th at LIV Singapore, shooting fantastic rounds of 67-66-66. It makes sense why Mito would like Sentosa, as preeminent ball strikers tend to rise to the challenge of the golf course. He’s a great long iron player who is long and straight off the tee.
Mito has some experience playing in Asia and is one of the most talented players on LIV who’s yet to get in the winner’s circle. I have questions about whether or not he can come through once in contention, but if he gets there, I’m happy to roll the dice.
Andy Ogletree +15000 (DraftKings)
Andy Ogletree is a player I expected to have a strong 2024 but struggled early in his first full season on LIV. After failing to crack the top-25 in any LIV event this year, the former U.S. Amateur champion finally figured things out, finished in a tie for 3rd at LIV Adelaide.
Ogletree should be incredible comfortable playing in Singapore. He won the International Series Qatar last year and finished T3 at the International Series Singapore. The 26-year-old was arguably the best player on the Asian Tour in 2023 and has been fantastic in the continent over the past 18 months.
If Ogletree has indeed found form, he looks to be an amazing value at triple-digit odds.
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In Tampa, there is a golf course that boasts carts that do not work, a water range, and a group of players none of which have any chance to break 80. The course is overseen by a staff of crusty men who have succeeded at nothing in life but ending up at the worst-run course in America. However, this place is no failure. With several other local courses going out of business — and boasting outstanding greens — the place is booked full.
While I came for the great greens, I stayed to watch our resident instructor; a poor-tempered, method teacher who caters to the hopeless. At first, it was simply hilarious. However, after months of listening and watching, something clicked. I realized I had a front-row seat to the worst golf instructor in America.
Here are some of my key takeaways.
Method Teacher
It is widely accepted that there are three types of golf instructors: system teachers, non-system teachers, and method teachers. Method teachers prescribe the same antidote for each student based on a preamble which teachers can learn in a couple day certification.
Method teaching allows anyone to be certified. This process caters to the lowest caliber instructor, creating the illusion of competency. This empowers these underqualified instructors with the moniker of “certified” to prey on the innocent and uninformed.
The Cult of Stack and Jilt
The Stack and Tilt website proudly boasts, “A golfer swings his hands inward in the backswing as opposed to straight back to 1) create power, similar to a field goal kicker moving his leg in an arc and 2) to promote a swing that is in-to-out, which produces a draw (and eliminates a slice).”
Now, let me tell you something, there is this law of the universe which says “energy can either be created or destroyed,” so either these guys are defying physics or they have no idea what they are taking about. Further, the idea that the first move of the backswing determines impact is conjecture with a splash of utter fantasy.
These are the pontifications of a method — a set of prescriptions applied to everyone with the hope of some success through the placebo effect. It is one thing for a naive student to believe, for a golf instructor to drink and then dispel this Kool-Aid is malpractice.
Fooled by Randomness
In flipping a coin, or even a March Madness bet, there is a 50-50 chance of success. In golf, especially for new players, results are asymmetric. Simply put: Anything can happen. The problem is that when bad instructors work with high handicappers, each and every shot gets its own diagnosis and prescription. Soon the student is overwhelmed.
Now here’s the sinister thing: The overwhelming information is by design. In this case, the coach is not trying to make you better, they are trying to make you reliant on them for information. A quasi Stockholm syndrome of codependency.
Practice
One of the most important scientists of the 20th century was Ivan Pavlov. As you might recall, he found that animals, including humans, could be conditioned into biological responses. In golf, the idea of practice has made millions of hackers salivate that they are one lesson or practice session from “the secret.”
Sunk Cost
The idea for the worst golf instructor is to create control and dependency so that clients ignore the sunk cost of not getting better. Instead, they are held hostage by the idea that they are one lesson or tip away from unlocking their potential.
Cliches
Cliches have the effect of terminating thoughts. However, they are the weapon of choice for this instructor. Add some hyperbole and students actually get no information. As a result, these players couldn’t play golf. When they did, they had no real scheme. With no idea what they are doing, they would descend into a spiral of no idea what to do, bad results, lower confidence, and running back to the lesson tee from more cliches.
The fact is that poor instruction is about conditioning players to become reliant members of your cult. To take away autonomy. To use practice as a form of control. To sell more golf lessons not by making people better but through the guise that without the teacher, the student can never reach their full potential. All under the umbrella of being “certified” (in a 2-day course!) and a melee of cliches.
This of course is not just happening at my muni but is a systemic problem around the country and around the world, the consequences of which are giving people a great reason to stop playing golf. But hey, at least it’s selling a lot of golf balls…
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The PGA TOUR heads to New Orleans to play the 2023 Zurich Classic of New Orleans. In a welcome change from the usual stroke play, the Zurich Classic is a team event. On Thursday and Saturday, the teams play best ball, and on Friday and Sunday the teams play alternate shot.
TPC Louisiana is a par 72 that measures 7,425 yards. The course features some short par 4s and plenty of water and bunkers, which makes for a lot of exciting risk/reward scenarios for competitors. Pete Dye designed the course in 2004 specifically for the Zurich Classic, although the event didn’t make its debut until 2007 because of Hurricane Katrina.
Coming off of the Masters and a signature event in consecutive weeks, the field this week is a step down, and understandably so. Many of the world’s top players will be using this time to rest after a busy stretch.
However, there are some interesting teams this season with some stars making surprise appearances in the team event. Some notable teams include Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele, Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry, Collin Morikawa and Kurt Kitayama, Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala as well as a few Canadian teams, Nick Taylor and Adam Hadwin and Taylor Pendrith and Corey Conners.
Past Winners at TPC Louisiana
- 2023: Riley/Hardy (-30)
- 2022: Cantlay/Schauffele (-29)
- 2021: Leishman/Smith (-20)
- 2019: Palmer/Rahm (-26)
- 2018: Horschel/Piercy (-22)
- 2017: Blixt/Smith (-27)
2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans Picks
Tom Hoge/Maverick McNealy +2500 (DraftKings)
Tom Hoge is coming off of a solid T18 finish at the RBC Heritage and finished T13 at last year’s Zurich Classic alongside Harris English.
This season, Hoge is having one of his best years on Tour in terms of Strokes Gained: Approach. In his last 24 rounds, the only player to top him on the category is Scottie Scheffler. Hoge has been solid on Pete Dye designs, ranking 28th in the field over his past 36 rounds.
McNealy is also having a solid season. He’s finished T6 at the Waste Management Phoenix Open and T9 at the PLAYERS Championship. He recently started working with world renowned swing coach, Butch Harmon, and its seemingly paid dividends in 2024.
Keith Mitchell/Joel Dahmen +4000 (DraftKings)
Keith Mitchell is having a fantastic season, finishing in the top-20 of five of his past seven starts on Tour. Most recently, Mitchell finished T14 at the Valero Texas Open and gained a whopping 6.0 strokes off the tee. He finished 6th at last year’s Zurich Classic.
Joel Dahmen is having a resurgent year and has been dialed in with his irons. He also has a T11 finish at the PLAYERS Championship at TPC Sawgrass which is another Pete Dye track. With Mitchell’s length and Dahmen’s ability to put it close with his short irons, the Mitchell/Dahmen combination will be dangerous this week.
Taylor Moore/Matt NeSmith +6500 (DraftKings)
Taylor Moore has quickly developed into one of the more consistent players on Tour. He’s finished in the top-20 in three of his past four starts, including a very impressive showing at The Masters, finishing T20. He’s also finished T4 at this event in consecutive seasons alongside Matt NeSmith.
NeSmith isn’t having a great 2024, but has seemed to elevate his game in this format. He finished T26 at Pete Dye’s TPC Sawgrass, which gives the 30-year-old something to build off of. NeSmith is also a great putter on Bermudagrass, which could help elevate Moore’s ball striking prowess.
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Pingback: Paul Wood explains bounce and effective bounce - very well, I might add...
DaveT
Mar 30, 2015 at 6:25 pm
Paul Wood and Don Wood agree that “effective bounce” or “net bounce” can be computed from actual bounce, flange width, and perhaps other parameters. Please post the formula for these quantities; some of us would like to know how to compute it.
Thanks,
DaveT
Paul Wood
Mar 31, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Dave, as Don mentioned, the formula or even the exact definition of what we mean by effective bounce or net bounce is going to be different from company to company. It’s also a key part of our internal knowledge. Hence the desire to boil all of the numbers and physics down to a simple system to communicate out to the world. In Cleveland’s case there’s the one dot, two dot… in our case we have the thin, standard and wide sole. If you’re really interested in computing the numbers you’d probably like a job in wedge design or research.
CT
Mar 30, 2015 at 6:16 pm
This sure is an eye opening article. No idea that bounce numbers stamped on a wedge are a manufacturers interpretation of how a wedge will play. IMHO manufacturers should state the actual bounce angle on the wedge (and the rest of the irons they sell) so that consumers know what they are testing/buying/playing. It is not that difficult to explain that “abc” actual bounce + “xyz” sole grind = a wedge that plays a certain way. I’ve only been playing the game for 30+ years and had no clue that one companies 10* bounce wedge could play the same as another companies 16* bounce wedge, or that one companies 12* bounce sand wedge could play much differently than another companies 12* bounce sand wedge.
Steven Thomas
Mar 30, 2015 at 4:19 pm
Paul:
The best lob wedge I have ever owned was a Hogan “Sure Out”. It had a very wide sole and only 6* of bounce. The bunkers at our course are very inconsistent. Some are very fluffy and some are not, so this was a great wedge for those situations. Our fairways are very firm, and tightly mowed too. These clubs are not legal anymore because of the groove configuration. Are there any club manufacturers that make a wedge with a wide sole and low bounce?
Paul Wood
Mar 31, 2015 at 12:19 pm
I would struggle to comment on other companies offerings, but based on what you’ve said you may want something like a wide sole wedge with a grind to take bounce off at the lead edge. That’s very possible through our WRX department (no specific link to GolfWRX). Most wedge companies will offer custom grinds for a specific case like this.
dcorun
Mar 30, 2015 at 2:52 pm
I could barely afford the set of irons I have now. I sure can’t a afford a set of wedges for each course condition I play. I just open or close the face and play the ball back or forward with the wedges that came with my set and do the best I can. I’ve actually gotten pretty good at it.
Zachary Smith
Mar 30, 2015 at 2:18 pm
I would say that you have an ‘off the shelf’ bounce angle. The effective bounce angle would be lower if you hood the face or play the ball back and much greater with an open face or ball forward position. As per usual, a simple concept is explained as complicated as possible. Certainly sales would have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Unfortunately for me, ball back=hosel hit
THE SWEET THONG
Mar 30, 2015 at 2:02 pm
CHACHING!- ANOTHER MILLION WEDGES SOLD TO THE SHEEP…..BHAAAAAA!
Paul Wood
Mar 30, 2015 at 1:54 pm
Thanks for the comments. I realized that I have been very remiss and not given credit to Cory Bacon, one of our design engineers, who put together a lot of the content and images for this piece. He’s one of the team that worked on the Glide wedges. Cheers Cory!
ChristopherKee
Mar 30, 2015 at 6:37 am
I spent 20 minutes explaining this concept to the GS associate trying to talk my out if custom ordering the PING Glide wedges and to get Cleveland 1 dots because they had lower bounce. I purchased the Glide in SS AND TS anyway… Had out two chip ins for birdie my first day with the new wedges. PING, please send GS some better product literature.
JT
Mar 30, 2015 at 12:00 pm
Lol! Ase the saying goes, you are your own best advisor..
Paul Wood
Mar 30, 2015 at 1:51 pm
Christopher, I’m happy you were confident enough to go with your own knowledge on this one. We are working on getting the best product literature and education we can to our accounts, but as you can imagine it’s not the easiest thing to do with such big organizations. There are some sales staff who really know their stuff and some who don’t – we’re just trying to tip the balance further to the well-informed.
MASSIVE MIKE!
Mar 31, 2015 at 2:58 am
As far as knowledgeable salesman at GS, RD and PGA SS,,,,, they are the equivalent of the salesman helping assist you in buying the right tie to go with what you think is your finely tailored suit!
Joel
Mar 29, 2015 at 11:35 pm
Everyone on this site should be forced to read this article. Well done good sir.
MJ
Mar 29, 2015 at 8:05 pm
There are so many bounce stories. The bounce is used on turf with a u shaped swing arc that slides under the ball starting 2 or 3 inches before the ball
What do you need bounce for if your going to strike the ball first
Try it Tiger
person
Mar 30, 2015 at 11:35 am
You forget that the head still interacts with the ground before the ball is fully launched from the club face. How the club reacts to hitting the ground is entirely dependent of the sole width and bounce. The more bounce the club has, the more the club “bounces” up and affects the ball flight. Just look at any iron/wedge shot in slo-mo and you will see even clean picked golf shots are affect by turf unless you are hitting like the middle of the ball with the leading edge.
MJ
Mar 30, 2015 at 12:59 pm
Wrong
The bounce is for the ball lifting up. Like a flap on an airplane wing which gave Sarezan the idea for bounce. Try a short pitch shot and see what happens when you slide club under the ball starting 2 inches behind ball. The ball pops straight up with no pinching.
Obviously this is only for shorter shots but can be used for full swing high lobs
Chuck
Mar 29, 2015 at 5:20 pm
This is a very good, very well-written and much-needed article. Kudos to Paul Wood and thanks to Ping for loaning him out to write this.
BIG STU
Mar 28, 2015 at 9:42 pm
He hit it dead on with that article. I have the Maltby video that also explains this same thing and Maltby says the same thing. It can be very confusing to the average golfer of what really effective bounce is. And like Mr Wood said different companies measure and state bounce in different ways. A very well written and factual article
johnnyb
Mar 28, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Great article! Very clear explanation of a concept that can be quite confusing. Last year I had an experience that made me realize how important proper bounce can be. I live in Germany where it rains all the time, and most courses are wet and soft. I played wedges with a lot of bounce, and they suited me really well over here. I flew to San Antonio, TX and played a tournament in the howling wind on a rock hard golf course. I really struggled with the simplest wedge shots. I bought the Glide wedges for this season. I ordered the 56 in the WS and the SS, and the 60 in the SS and TS. It was a hard sell to my wife, but I think it was a good investment.