Opinion & Analysis
Well… We’re waiting
One of my favorite scenes from the best golf movie ever, Caddyshack:
Judge Smails: “Ty, what did you shoot today?”
Ty Webb: “Oh Judge, I don’t keep score.”
Judge Smails: “Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?”
Ty Webb: “By height.”
It was stroke play that rang the death knell for fast play. As soon as golfers became obsessed with the phrase, “What did you shoot,” reasonable pace of play went the way of the featherie.
Listen to the great Tom Watson on pace of play:
“At the great Muirfield Course in Scotland, there’s a venerable tradition concerning foursomes which I think should be tried, at least occasionally, at American clubs: Nothing except foursomes play (alternate shot) is permitted on weekend mornings. A brisk foursome, which might have one partner already positioned in the drive zone to play the second shot, can be played in two and a half hours. Then a quick break for lunch, and perhaps a four ball (better ball as we call it) in another three and a half hours. All told, the members get in 36 holes, with lunch in under seven hours. An estimable goal for all of us.”
But here in America, it is almost sacrilegious to even consider not keeping your score. And when amateurs insist on counting every stroke, and holing out every putt, it takes considerably longer to play a round. That’s why golfers should consider more match play in their groups, and shouldn’t be afraid to pick up their ball when they are out of the hole. The handicap system allows for this with the maximum number of strokes clause, so use it, because there is nothing worse than someone agonizing over a putt for a nine!
Another issue that tends to slow play is watching professional golf on TV. What golfers fail to realize is that these guys and gals are playing FOR A LIVING and every shot can mean thousands of dollars. They have well rehearsed pre-shot routines, professional caddies and perhaps even more important is that they are the playing the most difficult courses in the world with greens that are lightening quick and tricky.
I am not defending pace of play on the PGA Tour, it is entirely too slow, but I do think it is important to realize the difference. And remember they do their pre-shot routines 70 times, the average golfer might do it 90 times!
Carts have also slowed down play, for the simple reason that many golfers do not know how to drive or park them in a way that speeds up play. Many golfers have become “overly social” in this area of the game. There is nothing that slows play more than driving to your playing partner’s ball and sitting in the cart as he hits. I would rather have four small, single carts so that everyone could drive directly to their ball (Any entrepreneurs out there)! But because that is financially impractical I suppose, try this: When you drive to the shortest tee shot, drop your partner off and head for your ball. As her or she hits, be going through your pre-shot routine. After his/her ball lands, be ready to fire!
The same thing with putting: You can be lining up your putt as the others are preparing to putt. Just be still when they are making the stroke. And remember to park the cart where you walk off the green toward the next tee. And on days when the carts must be kept on the path, take a handful of clubs with you out to the fairway. Simple common sense ideas that can save time in a round.
Here’s an old Scottish story: An American visited Scotland for the first time and he topped his first tee shot. He turned to the local Scottish player and said,
“In America we call that a mulligan. What do you call it?”
“Cheating,” the Scot replied.
Mulligans. Really? If you get to hit balls before your round, you should be ready, and your first shot is in play. Or if your club allows mulligans, try this: If you do hit a second tee shot, you MUST play it. You’ll be surprised at how few choose to re-tee!
Let’s face it — we live in an age when a lot more people play golf than they did many years ago. And maybe we are being unrealistic to use the four-hour round as our model, but if more golfers were educated and taught to realize how many small things add up to big time savings for all of us, the game would move more quickly.
As always, feel free to send a swing video to my Facebook page and I will do my best to give you my feedback.
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19th Hole
Vincenzi’s LIV Golf Singapore betting preview: Course specialist ready to thrive once again
After another strong showing in Australia, LIV Golf will head to Sentosa Golf Club in Singapore looking to build off of what was undoubtedly their best event to date.
Sentosa Golf Club sits on the southern tip of Singapore and is one of the most beautiful courses in the world. The course is more than just incredible scenically; it was also rated 55th in Golf Digest’s top-100 courses in 2022-2023 and has been consistently regarded as one of the best courses in Asia. Prior to being part of the LIV rotation, the course hosted the Singapore Open every year since 2005.
Sentosa Golf Club is a par 71 measuring 7,406 yards. The course will require precise ball striking and some length off the tee. It’s possible to go low due to the pristine conditions, but there are also plenty of hazards and difficult spots on the course that can bring double bogey into play in a hurry. The Bermudagrass greens are perfectly manicured, and the course has spent millions on the sub-air system to keep the greens rolling fast. I spoke to Asian Tour player, Travis Smyth, who described the greens as “the best [he’s] ever played.”
Davis Love III, who competed in a Singapore Open in 2019, also gushed over the condition of the golf course.
“I love the greens. They are fabulous,” the 21-time PGA Tour winner said.
Love III also spoke about other aspects of the golf course.
“The greens are great; the fairways are perfect. It is a wonderful course, and it’s tricky off the tee.”
“It’s a long golf course, and you get some long iron shots. It takes somebody hitting it great to hit every green even though they are big.”
As Love III said, the course can be difficult off the tee due to the length of the course and the trouble looming around every corner. It will take a terrific ball striking week to win at Sentosa Golf Club.
In his pre-tournament press conference last season, Phil Mickelson echoed many of the same sentiments.
“To play Sentosa effectively, you’re going to have a lot of shots from 160 to 210, a lot of full 6-, 7-, 8-iron shots, and you need to hit those really well and you need to drive the ball well.”
Golfers who excel from tee to green and can dial in their longer irons will have a massive advantage this week.
Stat Leaders at LIV Golf Adelaide:
Fairways Hit
1.) Louis Oosthuizen
2.) Anirban Lahiri
3.) Jon Rahm
4.) Brendan Steele
5.) Cameron Tringale
Greens in Regulation
1.) Brooks Koepka
2.) Brendan Steele
3.) Dean Burmester
4.) Cameron Tringale
5.) Anirban Lahiri
Birdies Made
1.) Brendan Steele
2.) Dean Burmester
3.) Thomas Pieters
4.) Patrick Reed
5.) Carlos Ortiz
LIV Golf Individual Standings:
1.) Joaquin Niemann
2.) Jon Rahm
3.) Dean Burmester
4.) Louis Oosthuizen
5.) Abraham Ancer
LIV Golf Team Standings:
1.) Crushers
2.) Legion XIII
3.) Torque
4.) Stinger GC
5.) Ripper GC
LIV Golf Singapore Picks
Sergio Garcia +3000 (DraftKings)
Sergio Garcia is no stranger to Sentosa Golf Club. The Spaniard won the Singapore Open in 2018 by five strokes and lost in a playoff at LIV Singapore last year to scorching hot Talor Gooch. Looking at the course setup, it’s no surprise that a player like Sergio has played incredible golf here. He’s long off the tee and is one of the better long iron players in the world when he’s in form. Garcia is also statistically a much better putter on Bermudagrass than he is on other putting surfaces. He’s putt extremely well on Sentosa’s incredibly pure green complexes.
This season, Garcia has two runner-up finishes, both of them being playoff losses. Both El Camaleon and Doral are courses he’s had success at in his career. The Spaniard is a player who plays well at his tracks, and Sentosa is one of them. I believe Sergio will get himself in the mix this week. Hopefully the third time is a charm in Singapore.
Paul Casey +3300 (FanDuel)
Paul Casey is in the midst of one of his best seasons in the five years or so. The results recently have been up and down, but he’s shown that when he’s on a golf course that suits his game, he’s amongst the contenders.
This season, Casey has finishes of T5 (LIV Las Vegas), T2 (LIV Hong Kong), and a 6th at the Singapore Classic on the DP World Tour. At his best, the Englishman is one of the best long iron players in the world, which makes him a strong fit for Sentosa. Despite being in poor form last season, he was able to fire a Sunday 63, which shows he can low here at the course.
It’s been three years since Casey has won a tournament (Omega Dubai Desert Classic in 2021), but he’s been one of the top players on LIV this season and I think he can get it done at some point this season.
Mito Pereira +5000 (Bet365)
Since Mito Pereira’s unfortunate demise at the 2022 PGA Championship, he’s been extremely inconsistent. However, over the past few months, the Chilean has played well on the International Series as well as his most recent LIV start. Mito finished 8th at LIV Adelaide, which was his best LIV finish this season.
Last year, Pereira finished 5th at LIV Singapore, shooting fantastic rounds of 67-66-66. It makes sense why Mito would like Sentosa, as preeminent ball strikers tend to rise to the challenge of the golf course. He’s a great long iron player who is long and straight off the tee.
Mito has some experience playing in Asia and is one of the most talented players on LIV who’s yet to get in the winner’s circle. I have questions about whether or not he can come through once in contention, but if he gets there, I’m happy to roll the dice.
Andy Ogletree +15000 (DraftKings)
Andy Ogletree is a player I expected to have a strong 2024 but struggled early in his first full season on LIV. After failing to crack the top-25 in any LIV event this year, the former U.S. Amateur champion finally figured things out, finished in a tie for 3rd at LIV Adelaide.
Ogletree should be incredible comfortable playing in Singapore. He won the International Series Qatar last year and finished T3 at the International Series Singapore. The 26-year-old was arguably the best player on the Asian Tour in 2023 and has been fantastic in the continent over the past 18 months.
If Ogletree has indeed found form, he looks to be an amazing value at triple-digit odds.
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In Tampa, there is a golf course that boasts carts that do not work, a water range, and a group of players none of which have any chance to break 80. The course is overseen by a staff of crusty men who have succeeded at nothing in life but ending up at the worst-run course in America. However, this place is no failure. With several other local courses going out of business — and boasting outstanding greens — the place is booked full.
While I came for the great greens, I stayed to watch our resident instructor; a poor-tempered, method teacher who caters to the hopeless. At first, it was simply hilarious. However, after months of listening and watching, something clicked. I realized I had a front-row seat to the worst golf instructor in America.
Here are some of my key takeaways.
Method Teacher
It is widely accepted that there are three types of golf instructors: system teachers, non-system teachers, and method teachers. Method teachers prescribe the same antidote for each student based on a preamble which teachers can learn in a couple day certification.
Method teaching allows anyone to be certified. This process caters to the lowest caliber instructor, creating the illusion of competency. This empowers these underqualified instructors with the moniker of “certified” to prey on the innocent and uninformed.
The Cult of Stack and Jilt
The Stack and Tilt website proudly boasts, “A golfer swings his hands inward in the backswing as opposed to straight back to 1) create power, similar to a field goal kicker moving his leg in an arc and 2) to promote a swing that is in-to-out, which produces a draw (and eliminates a slice).”
Now, let me tell you something, there is this law of the universe which says “energy can either be created or destroyed,” so either these guys are defying physics or they have no idea what they are taking about. Further, the idea that the first move of the backswing determines impact is conjecture with a splash of utter fantasy.
These are the pontifications of a method — a set of prescriptions applied to everyone with the hope of some success through the placebo effect. It is one thing for a naive student to believe, for a golf instructor to drink and then dispel this Kool-Aid is malpractice.
Fooled by Randomness
In flipping a coin, or even a March Madness bet, there is a 50-50 chance of success. In golf, especially for new players, results are asymmetric. Simply put: Anything can happen. The problem is that when bad instructors work with high handicappers, each and every shot gets its own diagnosis and prescription. Soon the student is overwhelmed.
Now here’s the sinister thing: The overwhelming information is by design. In this case, the coach is not trying to make you better, they are trying to make you reliant on them for information. A quasi Stockholm syndrome of codependency.
Practice
One of the most important scientists of the 20th century was Ivan Pavlov. As you might recall, he found that animals, including humans, could be conditioned into biological responses. In golf, the idea of practice has made millions of hackers salivate that they are one lesson or practice session from “the secret.”
Sunk Cost
The idea for the worst golf instructor is to create control and dependency so that clients ignore the sunk cost of not getting better. Instead, they are held hostage by the idea that they are one lesson or tip away from unlocking their potential.
Cliches
Cliches have the effect of terminating thoughts. However, they are the weapon of choice for this instructor. Add some hyperbole and students actually get no information. As a result, these players couldn’t play golf. When they did, they had no real scheme. With no idea what they are doing, they would descend into a spiral of no idea what to do, bad results, lower confidence, and running back to the lesson tee from more cliches.
The fact is that poor instruction is about conditioning players to become reliant members of your cult. To take away autonomy. To use practice as a form of control. To sell more golf lessons not by making people better but through the guise that without the teacher, the student can never reach their full potential. All under the umbrella of being “certified” (in a 2-day course!) and a melee of cliches.
This of course is not just happening at my muni but is a systemic problem around the country and around the world, the consequences of which are giving people a great reason to stop playing golf. But hey, at least it’s selling a lot of golf balls…
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The PGA TOUR heads to New Orleans to play the 2023 Zurich Classic of New Orleans. In a welcome change from the usual stroke play, the Zurich Classic is a team event. On Thursday and Saturday, the teams play best ball, and on Friday and Sunday the teams play alternate shot.
TPC Louisiana is a par 72 that measures 7,425 yards. The course features some short par 4s and plenty of water and bunkers, which makes for a lot of exciting risk/reward scenarios for competitors. Pete Dye designed the course in 2004 specifically for the Zurich Classic, although the event didn’t make its debut until 2007 because of Hurricane Katrina.
Coming off of the Masters and a signature event in consecutive weeks, the field this week is a step down, and understandably so. Many of the world’s top players will be using this time to rest after a busy stretch.
However, there are some interesting teams this season with some stars making surprise appearances in the team event. Some notable teams include Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele, Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry, Collin Morikawa and Kurt Kitayama, Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala as well as a few Canadian teams, Nick Taylor and Adam Hadwin and Taylor Pendrith and Corey Conners.
Past Winners at TPC Louisiana
- 2023: Riley/Hardy (-30)
- 2022: Cantlay/Schauffele (-29)
- 2021: Leishman/Smith (-20)
- 2019: Palmer/Rahm (-26)
- 2018: Horschel/Piercy (-22)
- 2017: Blixt/Smith (-27)
2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans Picks
Tom Hoge/Maverick McNealy +2500 (DraftKings)
Tom Hoge is coming off of a solid T18 finish at the RBC Heritage and finished T13 at last year’s Zurich Classic alongside Harris English.
This season, Hoge is having one of his best years on Tour in terms of Strokes Gained: Approach. In his last 24 rounds, the only player to top him on the category is Scottie Scheffler. Hoge has been solid on Pete Dye designs, ranking 28th in the field over his past 36 rounds.
McNealy is also having a solid season. He’s finished T6 at the Waste Management Phoenix Open and T9 at the PLAYERS Championship. He recently started working with world renowned swing coach, Butch Harmon, and its seemingly paid dividends in 2024.
Keith Mitchell/Joel Dahmen +4000 (DraftKings)
Keith Mitchell is having a fantastic season, finishing in the top-20 of five of his past seven starts on Tour. Most recently, Mitchell finished T14 at the Valero Texas Open and gained a whopping 6.0 strokes off the tee. He finished 6th at last year’s Zurich Classic.
Joel Dahmen is having a resurgent year and has been dialed in with his irons. He also has a T11 finish at the PLAYERS Championship at TPC Sawgrass which is another Pete Dye track. With Mitchell’s length and Dahmen’s ability to put it close with his short irons, the Mitchell/Dahmen combination will be dangerous this week.
Taylor Moore/Matt NeSmith +6500 (DraftKings)
Taylor Moore has quickly developed into one of the more consistent players on Tour. He’s finished in the top-20 in three of his past four starts, including a very impressive showing at The Masters, finishing T20. He’s also finished T4 at this event in consecutive seasons alongside Matt NeSmith.
NeSmith isn’t having a great 2024, but has seemed to elevate his game in this format. He finished T26 at Pete Dye’s TPC Sawgrass, which gives the 30-year-old something to build off of. NeSmith is also a great putter on Bermudagrass, which could help elevate Moore’s ball striking prowess.
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Dave Portnoy places monstrous outright bet for the 2024 Masters
John Daly stuns fans into silence with brutal opening tee shot on PGA Tour Champions
Justin Thomas on the equipment choice of Scottie Scheffler that he thinks is ‘weird’
Things got heated at the Houston Open between Tony Finau and Alejandro Tosti. Here’s why
Tiger Woods arrives at 2024 Masters equipped with a putter that may surprise you
‘Absolutely crazy’ – Major champ lays into Patrick Cantlay over his decision on final hole of RBC Heritage
Report: Tiger Woods has ‘eliminated sex’ in preparation for the 2024 Masters
Two star names reportedly blanked Jon Rahm all week at the Masters
2-time major champ announces shock retirement from the sport at age of 33
Report: LIV Golf identifies latest star name they hope to sign to breakaway tour
Richy Werenski WITB 2024 (May)
Richy Werenski what’s in the bag accurate as of the CJ Cup Houston Open. Driver: Titleist TSR3 (10 degrees, D1...
Wesley Bryan WITB 2024 (May)
Wesley Bryan what’s in the bag accurate as of the CJ Cup Byron Nelson. Driver: Callaway Paradym Ai Smoke Triple...
Adam Scott WITB 2024 (May)
Adam Scott what’s in the bag accurate as of the 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson. Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 (10.5 degrees)...
Pierceson Coody WITB 2024 (April)
Driver: TaylorMade Qi 10 (9 degrees) Shaft: Mitsubishi Tensei 1K White 70 TX 3-wood: TaylorMade Qi 10 Tour (15 degrees)...
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19th Hole2 weeks agoJustin Thomas on the equipment choice of Scottie Scheffler that he thinks is ‘weird’
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19th Hole2 weeks ago‘Absolutely crazy’ – Major champ lays into Patrick Cantlay over his decision on final hole of RBC Heritage
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19th Hole3 weeks agoTwo star names reportedly blanked Jon Rahm all week at the Masters
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19th Hole2 weeks agoReport: LIV Golf identifies latest star name they hope to sign to breakaway tour
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19th Hole3 weeks agoNeal Shipley presser ends in awkward fashion after reporter claims Tiger handed him note on 8th fairway
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19th Hole2 weeks agoBrandel Chamblee has ‘no doubt’ who started the McIlroy/LIV rumor and why
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Equipment3 weeks agoWhat we know about Bryson DeChambeau’s 3D-printed Avoda irons
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19th Hole7 days agoLET pro gives detailed financial breakdown of first week on tour…and the net result may shock you
Jedidiah
Jul 26, 2013 at 9:02 am
Why are there so many damn beta males out there?
Ken
Jul 7, 2013 at 10:16 am
So many courses mandate the use of carts…and do it in the name of speeding up play. C’mon guys, we see through the thinly veiled revenue driver. My friends and I drive 30 miles on Saturday mornings to play a wonderful course that allows walkers. I live right next to a course that only allows hoofers at twilight. I understand that some people are not able to walk a course, but there are many that should. Courses should promote it and they would find that play speeds up due to each player going to his own ball. We’ve walked many sub 3 hour rounds.
Dennis Clark
Jul 8, 2013 at 12:04 pm
yes sir, carts slow play no question…but they are here to stay. I advocate 4 very small individual carts that allow players to drive directly to their shot!
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Here are the problems which plague pace of play.
1. Being “married to the cart”…Instead of waiting in the cart for your partner to hit a shot then ride to your ball, get out grab some clubs and your range device. Walk to your ball, hit your shot and walk toward the hole. You partner will pick you up.
2. When the conditions warrant cart path only. Take several clubs with you to your ball. If you ball may be lost or in a hazard,take a ball with you.
3. If you are an average player and are 200 yards or more from the front of the green on a par 5, or even a long par 4. LAY UP….You are not going to “get there in two”. So forget waiting for the green to clear.
4 Play READY GOLF…This nonsense of “are you away or am I” is for the birds. Who cares!. Remember, in the rules of golf, there is no “out of turn” rule in stroke play.
5. If you are hopelessly out of the hole, pick up and take the maximum number permitted under the USGA Equitable Stroke Control formula. Most middle handicap golfers would take a triple bogey.
6. Ask the beverage cart girl to wait until all players have hit their shots, then go buy your stuff.
Don
Jul 3, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Funny the writer mentions Scotland. I believe there are a couple issues here. First, he should check how far apart tee times in scotland or the rest of Europe are booked. I know for a fact it is not the usual eight to ten minutes we get packed into here in the states. They do not try to cram over 60 tee times a day onto their courses. Second, I agree that slow play is an issue. When I play with slower partners I tell them I will pick my ball up after double par on a hole. Third, I wish everyone would play ready golf. I do think that people watching golf on tv has a lot to do with this too. Why can’t we take our practice swing or line up our ball while the rest of the foursome plays their shot. While I agree slow play is an issue, I think the biggest reason we find ourselves standing on tee boxes waiting ten to fifteen minutes is because the courses OVER book tee times.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:33 am
Ignorance, intolerance and a lack of golf ettiquette are “slowing the pace” of the game. Smarten up and play nice.
Marc
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:55 am
I play fast, almost always walk and play one Chicago course that doesn’t offer carts for that reason alone. Good golfers move along well in a cart. Average to poor generally don’t. It would speed up play if at the pro shop and on the 1st tee every group would be told to tee off when the group in front is out of range, not on or off the green. A new golfer that hits the ball 100 yards can be off the tee before the group in front gets to their ball. If you can’t hit them, you can hit your ball. Limit practice swings. One or two if you must is fine, but anything more is causing damage and just tiring you out. Unless you are Dennis (I still refer to your course as Marco Shores) or a pro, don’t give advice on the course and don’t take it. Practice is done at the range. On the course, you play. Play courses suited to your ability. If you are new, find a nice executive course, or wide open muni. Try to play on a weekday, it’s less crowded and you’ll have more fun. If you must tackle something beyond your ability for whatever reason, play from the tee that suits your ability (this holds true for all courses actually). Lastly, limit one tee shot per hole unless you’re taking the penalty and being true to the game. If you’re bending rules, you might as well drop one where it went out or play from where the person driving the cart landed. You can shoot 120 in under 4.5 hours if you move along, play ready golf, and eliminate 600 or 700 practice swings.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:24 pm
I always take a practice swing. It’s part of my pre shot routine. It helps with muscle memory and concentration. The routine takes maybe 10 seconds. I set and pull the trigger. Ball goes and I am in the cart before the ball stops rolling.
If I am driving the opposite pairings cart, I am off as soon as the last ball of the guys in the other cart is in the air. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to wait on a ‘pose’.
Jay Smith
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:01 pm
Unless you post signs in korean then actually police it well, good luck! The stupid comercials are lame and the goobers arent going to pay attention to it!!
szap
Jul 2, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Going back to Marty’s observation on type A personalities being the only one’s who are bothered by slow play, I am definitely a type A, but the people I regularly play with are far from it. What I find is that the slow play bothers everyone in the group, it is just the type A person who will try to say or do something about it.
marty
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:55 pm
classic type A. YOU DON’T HAVE TO FIX EVERYTHING.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:11 pm
Marty, I am ecstatic you do not play golf where I play.
Marty
Jul 7, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Me tooloooooloo
FAST PLAYER
Jul 2, 2013 at 5:43 pm
In my 50 years of playing what I have noticed is that the slow players don’t think they are slow.
duck_football_cheats
Jul 2, 2013 at 12:27 am
Courses need to do their part, too, like going with 10-minute tee time intervals (not alternating 7,8-minute) and stationing a starter to enforce that. You tee off on your appointed time, NOT when the group ahead hits their second shots. This spaces out groups, prevents bunching like a freeway on-ramp during rush hour.
Courses put the onus on players to speed up play, but they need to do their part, as well.
Jcjmw
Jul 1, 2013 at 9:42 pm
jcjmw • a day ago ?
Out on the golf course, NOTHING will change unless and until the course marshalls do something. As an example, I am a local to and regular at Rio Secco Golf Course (Butch Harmon headquarters and home course to Gulbis). Great staff there but lately the marshalls set the pace at 5 hrs. My last 3 rounds there have been 5 hours, like this morning. There was a 1.5 – 2 hole gap between the group in front of us and the next after them. When we complained to the marshall, the response was “our pace of play is 5 hours.” No, I personally know its not. I have been playing Rio for 10+ years and the pace of play used to be 4 hours. Over the years it has gotten worse. The key is the Marshall. If a golf Marshall believes 5 hours is acceptable, then no amount of TV promos or otherwise will make any actual difference on the gold course.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:10 pm
I would present my concerns to course Managers. Tell them the Marshall stated the 5 hour time frame. Make a point to alert them that there are many golfers who are unhappy with the 5 hour rounds and are considering taking their business elsewhere.
If the manager gives you any static about the time frame, call his bluff. Pull out your cell phone right there and make a tee time at another course for your foursome.
The best way to alter the business model of an establishment that eschews customer service is to no longer patronize that business.
John F
Jul 1, 2013 at 4:35 pm
A question for the author, because I have read about the pace of play being quickened by playing “ready golf” many times on GolfWRX. Most golfers aren’t that confident in their shotmaking to feel comfortable with their partners walking up the fairway as they’re shooting. How do you reconcile this with encouraging players to walk up to their ball before the furthest player shoots?
As I understand it, these pace-of-play concerns all hearken back to the problems of declining rounds and how best to “grow the game,” but saying “just play two quicker rounds” is the most tin-eared solution I’ve heard of yet. That might work for members of elite country clubs, but I doubt that preaching to country club members will grow the game much. Two rounds is 100 bucks if you bring your own cooler, and all this best-ball and alternate-shot stuff will leave you shooting a fraction of the shots. Most of the people you want to encourage to get out and play and sink money into the game are going to be hesitant to pay more than a couple bucks a hole for a round, and that would raise it to a couple bucks a shot.
Dennis Clark
Jul 1, 2013 at 7:25 pm
Confidence is not hampered by your partners walking away OUT of your sight. And if you’re talking about walking, that is not the problem; the article states CART DRIVING is slowing play. Most people would be surprised at the joy of match play and the variety of formats it offers. The individual final score obsession is something we might reconsider.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:50 am
“declining rounds”
you nailed the point of this entire ad campaign.
they think too many of us cant see it for what it really is.
and this is coming from someone who can play a round in under 3 hours with my friends that are good sticks. but we also understand who is on the course with us, we are married to women who enjoy the game for us. they dont want to go out with us the few times they do and feel like they are “on the clock”. and good or bad these are the people that would need to play for the game to actually grow.
dont get me wrong, we have all had the groups in font of us who are terrible or completely inconsiderate and refuse to let people through but they are the exception not the norm.
if the courses were actually serious about this pace of play business they would stop putting groups out on top of each other. a group should go out every 12 minutes, no more no less.
shoeshines
Jul 1, 2013 at 9:09 am
This is a reason why golf should consist of three 6 hole courses instead of two nine hole ones, that way people can have the option to play 12 in a reasonable amount of time. The game is simply too long. There are more players now. These are principles that were played in the 1800s when the game was played by very few. No one buzzes through a course anymore. We need to modernize and establish a new pace of play.
KB
Jul 1, 2013 at 8:40 am
The old guys just yesterday were the culprit … I was teeing off with my group on 16, while they were chatting it up the a par-3 17…I wondered how long it would take them to tee off and get going. As we were putting they were still standing there – chatting, making swing movements, talking golf – with no one on the green. They didn’t tee off until we pulled up behind them in our carts.
Really?
WVUgolfer
Jul 1, 2013 at 8:23 am
Golf courses themselves can help with pace. Have beverage stands on specific holes. If the group with honors is at a stand and the tee is open the next group fills the spot. I have seen beverage carts slow play by not properly doing their jobs. Muni’s could shorten their courses. Faster carts! USGA should place an asterisk on handicaps that includes pace of play times. Dr Bob is a 7* with a 5 hour round. 22* with a 3 and a 1/2 hour round.
Dennis Clark
Jun 30, 2013 at 10:06 am
The lead group of the day is the key: If that group can go 3.5 hours and everyone keeps pace, we can tee off every 8-9 minutes and have no trouble.
Jon Silverberg
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:41 pm
Actually, that is incorrect…you cannot tee groups off faster than it takes to play the slowest par 3 (usually 9-10 minutes) without backing up the course…this is not my opinion, research shows it to be fact (it is the same principle as factory throughput depends on the time it takes for the slowest separate process)…for more, see http://www.three45golf.org…the site founder has been on The Golf Channel, writes for Golf Digest and The Met Golfer, etc.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:28 am
+1
Grant
Jun 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm
I play as a single quite regularly. The other day I played two rounds in under 4 hrs (local muni, just over 6k yards from whites). It was very hot (100*+), weekday, and I had a cart. I was lucky enough to play through the entire way through the 2nd round. A few observations:
1. Courses need to manage how crowded the course becomes. I think the vast majority of slow play comes from course overcrowding. On particularly busy days, assistants could be used where the course bottle necks (locate t shots, monitor pace).
2. If your group has waived someone on…keep playing the hole!
3.I don’t think it’s a big deal to ask to play through. If I’m waiting on the group ahead on every shot, I’ll politely ask at the next tee.
My $.02
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:25 am
Well said…
Where is the course accountability in this issue?
Respect the golfers around you and let faster people through, its not a sign of disrespect that they are faster or better.
They may not like that you’re slow but they respect that you acknowledge it and show some etiquette
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:24 am
I completely concur.
Dennis Clark
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:41 pm
Having played the game now for 50 years and taught it for 30, I have done everything in my power, to “teach” faster, yet still enjoyable, golf. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. The point of my article is that if more players discovered the joys of match play, it might be better for moving play along. When foursomes AND four balls are played on busy days, it helps the pace greatly. Note that in the rules of play, a conceded stroke cannot be refused or declined, so marshall them to put that putt for a 7 in their pocket:) And congrats to your group for walking and playing at that pace. Thx for comment.
marty
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm
another article about slow play? really?
there does need to be a place for the slow and beginning players where they can explore how to play the game and not be bothered by you type-A dudes.
Dennis Clark
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Beginning does not have to be slow if they are educated. I have new-player groups play scramble and simply tell them to keep pace with the group in front of them. Its not a personality type, it’s education and common courtesy. If you can’t see the group in front of you, you can bet there are a whole LOTTA folks close behind you.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm
disagree. part of it is definitely personality type.
and any true beginning golfer (unless you’re Jim Thorpe) will be hacking it all over the place and will by definition take a good amount of time to play a round.
just bugs me that part of the hard-earned cash that i dole out for a round of golf gets wasted on overzealous marshals who only care about making money for the course. you want to grow the game? let players regulate themselves and live with the few less paying customers you can fit on the course during the day.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 7:49 am
Just allow type A speeedballers to play through. Every courtesy observed can only help.
Eric
Jul 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Are you serious? What about the other players “Doling Out” their hard earned cash to stand there and wait for slow players not even trying to speed things up and are clueless on golf etequtte! If you are going to golf you should learn not only how to hit the ball and which club to use but also how to play faster and make it enjoyable for “Everyone”. Not A type personality, Common Sense, respectful personality.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:55 pm
No. They are there to move along players who think they can “take their sweet time”…Look, no one wants to wait 5 or 10 minutes to hit every shot. If you are out of position( behind an entire hole) pick up and move along or allow faster players through.
The main reason for course Marshalls is because players cannot police themselves. On a busy day, there is no reason a 4 foursome should take more than 4.5 hours to play 18 holes. 4 hours is expected.
DO the math. 15 minutes per hole is a 4.5 hour pace. 12 minutes per hole is a 3.6 hour pace. So a 4 hour round allows 13.5 mins per hole.
Ken
Jul 5, 2013 at 9:47 am
Hence why they make par 3 courses and driving ranges. Golfers brand new to the game who can barely hit the ball should not be playing 7000 yard regulation courses. It is no fun for them and it is no fun for the other golfers that are being slowed down. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link and the round of 18 is only as fast as the slowest golfer…
Dennis Clark
Jul 5, 2013 at 9:57 am
excellent observation; the courses you choose to play and the tees you choose to play from should be based on your ability and experience.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:16 am
For a game that is looking for growth at ever turn that sure seems to be a lot of complaining about the very people you want taking the game up.
I play and prefer to play quickly but i’m a 3 index, the pace I can play at is due to my ability. To expect that of my wife who shoots a 120 simply isn’t fair. If respecting those around us by letting them through when it applies isn’t good enough then we will gladly play somewhere that appreciates our hard earned money.
end all that money to dg
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:18 am
Ignore the last line…phone issue.
Dennis Clark
Jul 5, 2013 at 10:06 am
I don’t think anyone is complaining, rather explaining. Golfers of ANY ability can learn to play faster through education. The article offers suggestions about how to do that. We had a group of “low single digits” who wanted “the first tee time so we don’t have to wait.” Granted. They played the tour tees on a 7500 yard golf course, one broke 80 and the lead group took 4 hour, 30 minutes to play. The group behind them, all average golfers playing from the white tees were on their heels all day. If everyone is educated and plays from the tees they should, play can move nicely.
G
Jun 30, 2013 at 10:58 am
Would you teach your daughter to drive on the freeway? No. You’d only let her drive the freeway when she’s ready. The same is true for golf. The driving range, and muni courses are for learning not a real golf course. “Type-A dudes,” really? Do you call everyone who can do something you can’t a compliment that you obviously mean to be derogatory? What a genius!
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm
ha! if only you knew– i golf quite quickly.
seems that when i AM playing with slower golfers, the ones that get the angriest at us for ‘holding up play’ are the type-A business dudes or old farts.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:22 am
Ok. I am a type A, old fart business dude. I “play” golf. I play through if I am playing faster. Never encountered a slower foursome that didn’t concede to a courteous request. Season your play with grace.
ScottyBinSLC
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:10 pm
What point are you defending Marty? Being argumentative for argument’s sake does nothing. The point of the discussion and the article is to discuss the problem and potentially come up with creative ways to solve it. Personality types, “old farts”, businessmen, etc. are not the problem or even a result of the problem.
Many who take up the game and who have played for years; albeit only a few rounds a year, take extraordinarily long to play because they don’t take the time to “work” on their game. They hope to sort it out on the course. This takes what used to be a 3.5-4 hr round and turns it into 4.5-6hrs/round. That’s unfair to all others on the course who have paid their use/rental fee.
And despite your feelings about it, golf is a revenue sport. Marshals and course managers all need to be concerned about the number of rounds per year/season in order to not only keep the doors open, but to make improvements and repairs year after year.
I once again would voice that the US moves to a handicap system as it’s played in the EU. To play you present a handicap card and you are placed on the appropriate tees; i.e.: Black/championship= Plus-4.4, Blue=4.5-8.9, White=9-11.4,etc., or something there abouts. The game would be better enjoyed by all, the pressure would be reduced for all high handicappers, and egos would have less of a role.
The course could then be enjoyed and it can become a Game again for all.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:29 pm
oh, and you gotta learn to drive on the freeway at some point. no amount of parking lot (or driving range) practice will prepare you for the real thing.
“real golf course”? really? nice backhanded dis at the large portion of golfers who happen to play muni’s full-time.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:30 pm
ha! if only you knew– i golf quite quickly.
seems that when i AM playing with slower golfers, the ones that get the angriest at us for ‘holding up play’ are the type-A business dudes or old farts.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:01 pm
Most muni’s are easy to play. THat’s where people should learn the game before venturing out on more difficult courses.
Look, golf is a difficult sport to even become moderately proficient.
A newbie should not run out and play A Mike Strantz, Pete Dye or Donald Ross course as they will not enjoy the game and lose interest.
Beginning golfers should play easier tracks so the game is FUN for them. That is where I learned. On the County courses and muni’s.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:38 pm
When I was first learning the game, my Dad insisted on learning the rules of golf etiquette first. We walked so there was no issue with cart logic/use.
When I play with novice golfers, I first tell them this is supposed to be fun. No one is paying us to play on tv, so getting upset is not an option. One must learn to play fast before considering playing well.
Nothing to do with type A..A round of golf lasts the time it lasts. It is the constant waiting 5 or 10 minutes to hit a shot is what is ruining the game.
Ryan
Jun 29, 2013 at 11:39 am
I just played this morning in 2 hours 45 min. It was just a 2 some and we were the first group off. I coach high school golf and I work with my golfers on speed all the time. I tell them that if you are going to play bad at least do it fast. I totally agree with an earlier post that you have to teach people how to keep up. Most people that are slow golfers would probably be better if they took less practice swings and less time over the ball.
George
Jun 29, 2013 at 10:26 am
Interesting idea about single carts. As a Marshall I have seen things you would not imagine. I walk and carry as a 60+ year old and 12 handicap. My group usually plays our 6200 yard course in a 3 hour round during the week. When marshalling we strive to have players play 15 minute holes for a 41/2 hour round. Our Marshall’s have no Qualms about asking a slow group to stay in sync with the group ahead. Also if they don’t I will ask them to pick up and go to the next hole. Golfers need to understand that they are renting the course not buying it when they pay for a green fee. Slow play and poor golf etiquette irks Marshall’s as much as the players on the course.
roger
Jun 28, 2013 at 7:01 pm
Slow play causes problems and ruins our game also.
This Summer i have been far more assertive in giving instructions
to slow players in front of my group. Our Firm Instructions with an initial Kind Prompting has yet to be ignored!!!!
Caddyshack. The Best Sound Track ever. Thanks Kenny!
Rob
Jun 28, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Two days ago it took my friend and I 3 hours to play 9 holes due to the group of golfers infront of us. One player would literally top every single shot down the fairway as she went it took her 15 strokes just to make a green on a <300 yard par 4, and the other 3 in her group were no better. None of them played ready golf either – one person would top their shot 20 yeards then they would sit there and talk for a couple minutes then the next person would go through a whole pre-shot routine and then proceed to top her shot 20 yards they would sit there and talk for a couple minutes then the next person would go through her entire pre shot routine only to top it another 20 yards, and so it went for 3 long hours. The worst part is they would not let us play through. Many times we made it too the tee box before they had finished teeing off for the hole, they would look at us and go on their way. The worst part of it all, is the Marshall did nothing about it. He just kept saying "they are sure slow arent they?" It had to be the most frustrating experience I have ever had on the course. There is no excuse for a 5 hour round nevermind a 6 hour round. While we're young!