Opinion & Analysis
Well… We’re waiting
One of my favorite scenes from the best golf movie ever, Caddyshack:
Judge Smails: “Ty, what did you shoot today?”
Ty Webb: “Oh Judge, I don’t keep score.”
Judge Smails: “Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?”
Ty Webb: “By height.”
It was stroke play that rang the death knell for fast play. As soon as golfers became obsessed with the phrase, “What did you shoot,” reasonable pace of play went the way of the featherie.
Listen to the great Tom Watson on pace of play:
“At the great Muirfield Course in Scotland, there’s a venerable tradition concerning foursomes which I think should be tried, at least occasionally, at American clubs: Nothing except foursomes play (alternate shot) is permitted on weekend mornings. A brisk foursome, which might have one partner already positioned in the drive zone to play the second shot, can be played in two and a half hours. Then a quick break for lunch, and perhaps a four ball (better ball as we call it) in another three and a half hours. All told, the members get in 36 holes, with lunch in under seven hours. An estimable goal for all of us.”
But here in America, it is almost sacrilegious to even consider not keeping your score. And when amateurs insist on counting every stroke, and holing out every putt, it takes considerably longer to play a round. That’s why golfers should consider more match play in their groups, and shouldn’t be afraid to pick up their ball when they are out of the hole. The handicap system allows for this with the maximum number of strokes clause, so use it, because there is nothing worse than someone agonizing over a putt for a nine!
Another issue that tends to slow play is watching professional golf on TV. What golfers fail to realize is that these guys and gals are playing FOR A LIVING and every shot can mean thousands of dollars. They have well rehearsed pre-shot routines, professional caddies and perhaps even more important is that they are the playing the most difficult courses in the world with greens that are lightening quick and tricky.
I am not defending pace of play on the PGA Tour, it is entirely too slow, but I do think it is important to realize the difference. And remember they do their pre-shot routines 70 times, the average golfer might do it 90 times!
Carts have also slowed down play, for the simple reason that many golfers do not know how to drive or park them in a way that speeds up play. Many golfers have become “overly social” in this area of the game. There is nothing that slows play more than driving to your playing partner’s ball and sitting in the cart as he hits. I would rather have four small, single carts so that everyone could drive directly to their ball (Any entrepreneurs out there)! But because that is financially impractical I suppose, try this: When you drive to the shortest tee shot, drop your partner off and head for your ball. As her or she hits, be going through your pre-shot routine. After his/her ball lands, be ready to fire!
The same thing with putting: You can be lining up your putt as the others are preparing to putt. Just be still when they are making the stroke. And remember to park the cart where you walk off the green toward the next tee. And on days when the carts must be kept on the path, take a handful of clubs with you out to the fairway. Simple common sense ideas that can save time in a round.
Here’s an old Scottish story: An American visited Scotland for the first time and he topped his first tee shot. He turned to the local Scottish player and said,
“In America we call that a mulligan. What do you call it?”
“Cheating,” the Scot replied.
Mulligans. Really? If you get to hit balls before your round, you should be ready, and your first shot is in play. Or if your club allows mulligans, try this: If you do hit a second tee shot, you MUST play it. You’ll be surprised at how few choose to re-tee!
Let’s face it — we live in an age when a lot more people play golf than they did many years ago. And maybe we are being unrealistic to use the four-hour round as our model, but if more golfers were educated and taught to realize how many small things add up to big time savings for all of us, the game would move more quickly.
As always, feel free to send a swing video to my Facebook page and I will do my best to give you my feedback.
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My golf learning began with this simple fact – if you don’t have a fundamentally sound hold on the golf club, it is practically impossible for your body to execute a fundamentally sound golf swing. I’m still a big believer that the golf swing is much easier to execute if you begin with the proper hold on the club.
As you might imagine, I come into contact with hundreds of golfers of all skill levels. And it is very rare to see a good player with a bad hold on the golf club. There are some exceptions, for sure, but they are very few and very far between, and they typically have beat so many balls with their poor grip that they’ve found a way to work around it.
The reality of biophysics is that the body moves only in certain ways – and the particulars of the way you hold the golf club can totally prevent a sound swing motion that allows the club to release properly through the impact zone. The wonderful thing is that anyone can learn how to put a fundamentally sound hold on the golf club, and you can practice it anywhere your hands are not otherwise engaged, like watching TV or just sitting and relaxing.
Whether you prefer an overlap, interlock or full-finger (not baseball!) grip on the club, the same fundamentals apply. Here are the major grip faults I see most often, in the order of the frequency:
Mis-aligned hands
By this I mean that the palms of the two hands are not parallel to each other. Too many golfers have a weak left hand and strong right, or vice versa. The easiest way to learn how to hold the club with your palms aligned properly is to grip a plain wooden ruler or yardstick. It forces the hands to align properly and shows you how that feels. If you grip and re-grip a yardstick several times, then grip a club, you’ll see that the learning curve is almost immediate.
The position of the grip in the upper/left hand
I also observe many golfers who have the butt of the grip too far into the heel pad of the upper hand (the left hand for right-handed players). It’s amazing how much easier it is to release the club through the ball if even 1/4-1/2″ of the butt is beyond the left heel pad. Try this yourself to see what I mean. Swing the club freely with just your left hand and notice the difference in its release from when you hold it at the end of the grip, versus gripping down even a half inch.
To help you really understand how this works, go to the range and hit shots with your five-iron gripped down a full inch to make the club the same length as your seven-iron. You will probably see an amazing shot shape difference, and likely not see as much distance loss as you would expect.
Too much lower (right) hand on the club
It seems like almost all golfers of 8-10 handicap or higher have the club too far into the palm of the lower hand, because that feels “good” if you are trying to control the path of the clubhead to the ball. But the golf swing is not an effort to hit at the ball – it is a swing of the club. The proper hold on the club has the grip underneath the pad at the base of the fingers. This will likely feel “weak” to you — like you cannot control the club like that. EXACTLY. You should not be trying to control the club with your lower/master hand.
Gripping too tightly
Nearly all golfers hold the club too tightly, which tenses up the forearms and prevents a proper release of the club through impact. In order for the club to move back and through properly, you must feel that the club is controlled by the last three fingers of the upper hand, and the middle two fingers of the lower hand. If you engage your thumbs and forefingers in “holding” the club, the result will almost always be a grip that is too tight. Try this for yourself. Hold the club in your upper hand only, and squeeze firmly with just the last three fingers, with the forefinger and thumb off the club entirely. You have good control, but your forearms are not tense. Then begin to squeeze down with your thumb and forefinger and observe the tensing of the entire forearm. This is the way we are made, so the key to preventing tenseness in the arms is to hold the club very lightly with the “pinchers” — the thumbs and forefingers.
So, those are what I believe are the four fundamentals of a good grip. Anyone can learn them in their home or office very quickly. There is no easier way to improve your ball striking consistency and add distance than giving more attention to the way you hold the golf club.
More from the Wedge Guy
- The Wedge Guy: Golf mastery begins with your wedge game
- The Wedge Guy: Why golf is 20 times harder than brain surgery
- The Wedge Guy: Musings on the golf ball rollback
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As the Florida swing comes to an end, the PGA Tour makes its way to Houston to play the Texas Children’s Houston Open at Memorial Park Golf Course.
This will be the fourth year that Memorial Park Golf Course will serve as the tournament host. The event did not take place in 2023, but the course hosted the event in 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Memorial Park is a par-70 layout measuring 7,432 yards and features Bermudagrass greens. Historically, the main defense for the course has been thick rough along the fairways and tightly mown runoff areas around the greens. Memorial Park has a unique setup that features three Par 5’s and five Par 3’s.
The field will consist of 132 players, with the top 65 and ties making the cut. There are some big names making the trip to Houston, including Scottie Scheffler, Wyndham Clark, Tony Finau, Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala.
Past Winners at Memorial Park
- 2022: Tony Finau (-16)
- 2021: Jason Kokrak (-10)
- 2020: Carlos Ortiz (-13)
In this article and going forward, I’ll be using the Rabbit Hole by Betsperts Golf data engine to develop my custom model. If you want to build your own model or check out all of the detailed stats, you can sign up using promo code: MATTVIN for 25% off any subscription package (yearly is best value).
Key Stats For Memorial Park
Let’s take a look at several metrics for Memorial Park to determine which golfers boast top marks in each category over their last 24 rounds:
Strokes Gained: Approach
Memorial Park is a pretty tough golf course. Golfers are penalized for missing greens and face some difficult up and downs to save par. Approach will be key.
Total Strokes Gained: Approach per round in past 24 rounds:
- Tom Hoge (+1.30)
- Scottie Scheffler (+1.26)
- Keith Mitchell (+0.97)
- Tony Finau (+0.92)
- Jake Knapp (+0.84)
Strokes Gained: Off the Tee
Memorial Park is a long golf course with rough that can be penal. Therefore, a combination of distance and accuracy is the best metric.
Total Strokes Gained: Off the Tee per round in past 24 rounds:
- Scottie Scheffler (+0.94)
- Kevin Dougherty (+0.93)
- Cameron Champ (+0.86)
- Rafael Campos (+0.84)
- Si Woo Kim (+0.70)
Strokes Gained Putting: Bermudagrass + Fast
The Bermudagrass greens played fairly fast the past few years in Houston. Jason Kokrak gained 8.7 strokes putting on his way to victory in 2021 and Tony Finau gained in 7.8 in 2022.
Total Strokes Gained Putting (Bermudagrass) per round past 24 rounds (min. 8 rounds):
- Adam Svensson (+1.27)
- Harry Hall (+1.01)
- Martin Trainer (+0.94)
- Taylor Montgomery (+0.88)
- S.H. Kim (+0.86)
Strokes Gained: Around the Green
With firm and undulating putting surfaces, holding the green on approach shots may prove to be a challenge. Memorial Park has many tightly mowed runoff areas, so golfers will have challenging up-and-down’s around the greens. Carlos Ortiz gained 5.7 strokes around the green on the way to victory in 2020.
Total Strokes Gained: Around the Green per round in past 24 rounds:
- Mackenzie Hughes (+0.76)
- S.H. Kim (+0.68)
- Scottie Scheffler (+0.64)
- Jorge Campillo (+0.62)
- Jason Day (+0.60)
Strokes Gained: Long and Difficult
Memorial Park is a long and difficult golf course. This statistic will incorporate players who’ve had success on these types of tracks in the past.
Total Strokes Gained: Long and Difficult in past 24 rounds:
- Scottie Scheffler (+2.45)
- Ben Griffin (+1.75)
- Will Zalatoris (+1.73)
- Ben Taylor (+1.53)
- Tony Finau (+1.42)
Course History
Here are the players who have performed the most consistently at Memorial Park.
Strokes Gained Total at Memorial Park past 12 rounds:
- Tyson Alexander (+3.65)
- Ben Taylor (+3.40)
- Tony Finau (+2.37)
- Joel Dahmen (+2.25)
- Patton Kizzire (+2.16)
Statistical Model
Below, I’ve reported overall model rankings using a combination of the five key statistical categories previously discussed.
These rankings are comprised of SG: App (24%) SG: OTT (24%); SG: Putting Bermudagrass/Fast (13%); SG: Long and Difficult (13%); SG: ARG (13%) and Course History (13%)
- Scottie Scheffler
- Wyndham Clark
- Tony Finau
- Joel Dahmen
- Stephan Jaeger
- Aaron Rai
- Sahith Theegala
- Keith Mitchell
- Jhonnatan Vegas
- Jason Day
- Kurt Kitayama
- Alex Noren
- Will Zalatoris
- Si Woo Kim
- Adam Long
2024 Texas Children’s Houston Open Picks
Will Zalatoris +2000 (Caesars)
Scottie Scheffler will undoubtedly be difficult to beat this week, so I’m starting my card with someone who I believe has the talent to beat him if he doesn’t have his best stuff.
Will Zalatoris missed the cut at the PLAYERS, but still managed to gain strokes on approach while doing so. In an unpredictable event with extreme variance, I don’t believe it would be wise to discount Zalatoris based on that performance. Prior to The PLAYERS, the 27-year-old finished T13, T2 and T4 in his previous three starts.
Zalatoris plays his best golf on long and difficult golf courses. In his past 24 rounds, he ranks 3rd in the category, but the eye test also tells a similar story. He’s contended at major championships and elevated events in the best of fields with tough scoring conditions. The Texas resident should be a perfect fit at Memorial Park Golf Club.
Alex Noren +4500 (FanDuel)
Alex Noren has been quietly playing some of his best golf of the last half decade this season. The 41-year-old is coming off back-to-back top-20 finishes in Florida including a T9 at The PLAYERS in his most recent start.
In his past 24 rounds, Noren ranks 21st in the field in Strokes Gained: Off the Tee, 30th in Strokes Gained: Around the Green, 25th in Strokes Gained: Total on long and difficult courses and 21st in Strokes Gained: Putting on fast Bermudagrass greens.
In addition to his strong recent play, the Swede also has played well at Memorial Park. In 2022, Noren finished T4 at the event, gaining 2.2 strokes off the tee and 7.0 strokes on approach for the week. In his two starts at the course, he’s gained an average of .6 strokes per round on the field, indicating he is comfortable on these greens.
Noren has been due for a win for what feels like an eternity, but Memorial Park may be the course that suits him well enough for him to finally get his elusive first PGA Tour victory.
Mackenzie Hughes +8000 (FanDuel)
Mackenzie Hughes found himself deep into contention at last week’s Valspar Championship before faltering late and finishing in a tie for 3rd place. While he would have loved to win the event, it’s hard to see the performance as anything other than an overwhelming positive sign for the Canadian.
Hughes has played great golf at Memorial Park in the past. He finished T7 in 2020, T29 in 2021 and T16 in 2022. The course fit seems to be quite strong for Hughes. He’s added distance off the tee in the past year or and ranks 8th in the field for apex height, which will be a key factor when hitting into Memorial Park’s elevated greens with steep run-off areas.
In his past 24 rounds, Hughes is the best player in the field in Strokes Gained: Around the Greens. The ability to scramble at this course will be extremely important. I believe Hughes can build off of his strong finish last week and contend once again to cement himself as a President’s Cup consideration.
Akshay Bhatia +8000 (FanDuel)
Akshay Bhatia played well last week at the Valspar and seemed to be in total control of his golf ball. He finished in a tie for 17th and shot an impressive -3 on a difficult Sunday. After struggling Thursday, Akshay shot 68-70-68 in his next three rounds.
Thus far, Bhatia has played better at easier courses, but his success at Copperhead may be due to his game maturing. The 22-year-old has enormous potential and the raw talent to be one of the best players in the world when he figures it all out.
Bhatia is a high upside play with superstar qualities and may just take the leap forward to the next stage of his career in the coming months.
Cameron Champ +12000 (FanDuel)
Cameron Champ is a player I often target in the outright betting market due to his “boom-or-bust” nature. It’s hard to think of a player in recent history with three PGA Tour wins who’s been as inconsistent as Champ has over the course of his career.
Despite the erratic play, Cam Champ simply knows how to win. He’s won in 2018, 2019 and 2021, so I feel he’s due for a win at some point this season. The former Texas A&M product should be comfortable in Texas and last week he showed us that his game is in a pretty decent spot.
Over his past 24 rounds, Champ ranks 3rd in Strokes Gained: Off the Tee and 30th in Strokes Gained: Total on long and difficult courses. Given his ability to spike at any given time, Memorial Park is a good golf course to target Champ on at triple digit odds.
Robert MacIntyre +12000 (FanDuel)
The challenge this week is finding players who can possibly beat Scottie Scheffler while also not dumping an enormous amount of money into an event that has a player at the top that looks extremely dangerous. Enter McIntyre, who’s another boom-or-bust type player who has the ceiling to compete with anyone when his game is clicking on all cylinders.
In his past 24 rounds, MacIntyre ranks 16th in the field in Strokes Gained: Off the Tee, 17th in Strokes Gained: Around the Green and 10th in Strokes Gained: Total on long and difficult courses.
MacIntyre’s PGA Tour season has gotten off to a slow start, but he finished T6 in Mexico, which is a course where players will hit driver on the majority of their tee shots, which is what we will see at Memorial Park. Texas can also get quite windy, which should suit MacIntyre. Last July, the Scot went toe to toe with Rory McIlroy at the Scottish Open before a narrow defeat. It would take a similar heroic effort to compete with Scheffler this year in Houston.
Ryan Moore +15000 (FanDuel)
Ryan Moore’s iron play has been absolutely unconscious over his past few starts. At The PLAYERS Championship in a loaded field, he gained 6.1 strokes on approach and last week at Copperhead, he gained 9.0 strokes on approach.
It’s been a rough handful of years on Tour for the 41-year-old, but he is still a five-time winner on the PGA Tour who’s young enough for a career resurgence. Moore has chronic deterioration in a costovertebral joint that connects the rib to the spine, but has been getting more consistent of late, which is hopefully a sign that he is getting healthy.
Veterans have been contending in 2024 and I believe taking a flier on a proven Tour play who’s shown signs of life is a wise move at Memorial Park.
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B.F. Skinner was one of the most important psychologists of the 20th century, developing the foundation of the development of reinforcement, and in doing so, creating the concept of behaviorism. In simple terms, this means that we are conditioned by our habits. In practical terms, it explains the divide between the few and far between elite instructors and college coaches.
To understand the application, let’s quickly review one of B.F. Skinner’s most important experiments; superstitions in the formation of behavior by pigeons. In this experiment, food was dispensed to pigeons at random intervals. Soon, according to Skinner, the pigeons began to associate whatever action they were doing at the time of the food being dispensed. According to Skinner, this conditioned that response and soon, they simply haphazardly repeated the action, failing to distinguish between cause and correlation (and in the meantime, looking really funny!).
Now, this is simply the best way to describe the actions of most every women’s college golf coach and too many instructors in America. They see something work, get positive feedback and then become conditioned to give the feedback, more and more, regardless of if it works (this is also why tips from your buddies never work!).
Go to a college event, particularly a women’s one, and you will see coaches running all over the place. Like the pigeons in the experiment, they have been conditioned into a codependent relationship with their players in which they believe their words and actions, can transform a round of golf. It is simply hilarious while being equally perturbing
In junior golf, it’s everywhere. Junior golf academies make a living selling parents that a hysterical coach and over-coaching are essential ingredients in your child’s success.
Let’s be clear, no one of any intellect has any real interest in golf — because it’s not that interesting. The people left, including most coaches and instructors, carve out a small fiefdom, usually on the corner of the range, where they use the illusion of competency to pray on people. In simple terms, they baffle people with the bullshit of pseudo-science that they can make you better, after just one more lesson.
The reality is that life is an impromptu game. The world of golf, business, and school have a message that the goal is being right. This, of course, is bad advice, being right in your own mind is easy, trying to push your ideas on others is hard. As a result, it is not surprising that the divorce rate among golf professionals and their instructors is 100 percent. The transfer rate among college players continues to soar, and too many courses have a guy peddling nefarious science to good people. In fact, we do at my course!
The question is, what impact does all this have on college-age and younger kids? At this point, we honestly don’t know. However, I am going to go out on a limb and say it isn’t good.
Soren Kierkegaard once quipped “I saw it for what it is, and I laughed.” The actions of most coaches and instructors in America are laughable. The problem is that I am not laughing because they are doing damage to kids, as well as driving good people away from this game.
The fact is that golfers don’t need more tips, secrets, or lessons. They need to be presented with a better understanding of the key elements of golf. With this understanding, they can then start to frame which information makes sense and what doesn’t. This will emancipate them and allow them to take charge of their own development.
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Jedidiah
Jul 26, 2013 at 9:02 am
Why are there so many damn beta males out there?
Ken
Jul 7, 2013 at 10:16 am
So many courses mandate the use of carts…and do it in the name of speeding up play. C’mon guys, we see through the thinly veiled revenue driver. My friends and I drive 30 miles on Saturday mornings to play a wonderful course that allows walkers. I live right next to a course that only allows hoofers at twilight. I understand that some people are not able to walk a course, but there are many that should. Courses should promote it and they would find that play speeds up due to each player going to his own ball. We’ve walked many sub 3 hour rounds.
Dennis Clark
Jul 8, 2013 at 12:04 pm
yes sir, carts slow play no question…but they are here to stay. I advocate 4 very small individual carts that allow players to drive directly to their shot!
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Here are the problems which plague pace of play.
1. Being “married to the cart”…Instead of waiting in the cart for your partner to hit a shot then ride to your ball, get out grab some clubs and your range device. Walk to your ball, hit your shot and walk toward the hole. You partner will pick you up.
2. When the conditions warrant cart path only. Take several clubs with you to your ball. If you ball may be lost or in a hazard,take a ball with you.
3. If you are an average player and are 200 yards or more from the front of the green on a par 5, or even a long par 4. LAY UP….You are not going to “get there in two”. So forget waiting for the green to clear.
4 Play READY GOLF…This nonsense of “are you away or am I” is for the birds. Who cares!. Remember, in the rules of golf, there is no “out of turn” rule in stroke play.
5. If you are hopelessly out of the hole, pick up and take the maximum number permitted under the USGA Equitable Stroke Control formula. Most middle handicap golfers would take a triple bogey.
6. Ask the beverage cart girl to wait until all players have hit their shots, then go buy your stuff.
Don
Jul 3, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Funny the writer mentions Scotland. I believe there are a couple issues here. First, he should check how far apart tee times in scotland or the rest of Europe are booked. I know for a fact it is not the usual eight to ten minutes we get packed into here in the states. They do not try to cram over 60 tee times a day onto their courses. Second, I agree that slow play is an issue. When I play with slower partners I tell them I will pick my ball up after double par on a hole. Third, I wish everyone would play ready golf. I do think that people watching golf on tv has a lot to do with this too. Why can’t we take our practice swing or line up our ball while the rest of the foursome plays their shot. While I agree slow play is an issue, I think the biggest reason we find ourselves standing on tee boxes waiting ten to fifteen minutes is because the courses OVER book tee times.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:33 am
Ignorance, intolerance and a lack of golf ettiquette are “slowing the pace” of the game. Smarten up and play nice.
Marc
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:55 am
I play fast, almost always walk and play one Chicago course that doesn’t offer carts for that reason alone. Good golfers move along well in a cart. Average to poor generally don’t. It would speed up play if at the pro shop and on the 1st tee every group would be told to tee off when the group in front is out of range, not on or off the green. A new golfer that hits the ball 100 yards can be off the tee before the group in front gets to their ball. If you can’t hit them, you can hit your ball. Limit practice swings. One or two if you must is fine, but anything more is causing damage and just tiring you out. Unless you are Dennis (I still refer to your course as Marco Shores) or a pro, don’t give advice on the course and don’t take it. Practice is done at the range. On the course, you play. Play courses suited to your ability. If you are new, find a nice executive course, or wide open muni. Try to play on a weekday, it’s less crowded and you’ll have more fun. If you must tackle something beyond your ability for whatever reason, play from the tee that suits your ability (this holds true for all courses actually). Lastly, limit one tee shot per hole unless you’re taking the penalty and being true to the game. If you’re bending rules, you might as well drop one where it went out or play from where the person driving the cart landed. You can shoot 120 in under 4.5 hours if you move along, play ready golf, and eliminate 600 or 700 practice swings.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:24 pm
I always take a practice swing. It’s part of my pre shot routine. It helps with muscle memory and concentration. The routine takes maybe 10 seconds. I set and pull the trigger. Ball goes and I am in the cart before the ball stops rolling.
If I am driving the opposite pairings cart, I am off as soon as the last ball of the guys in the other cart is in the air. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to wait on a ‘pose’.
Jay Smith
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:01 pm
Unless you post signs in korean then actually police it well, good luck! The stupid comercials are lame and the goobers arent going to pay attention to it!!
szap
Jul 2, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Going back to Marty’s observation on type A personalities being the only one’s who are bothered by slow play, I am definitely a type A, but the people I regularly play with are far from it. What I find is that the slow play bothers everyone in the group, it is just the type A person who will try to say or do something about it.
marty
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:55 pm
classic type A. YOU DON’T HAVE TO FIX EVERYTHING.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:11 pm
Marty, I am ecstatic you do not play golf where I play.
Marty
Jul 7, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Me tooloooooloo
FAST PLAYER
Jul 2, 2013 at 5:43 pm
In my 50 years of playing what I have noticed is that the slow players don’t think they are slow.
duck_football_cheats
Jul 2, 2013 at 12:27 am
Courses need to do their part, too, like going with 10-minute tee time intervals (not alternating 7,8-minute) and stationing a starter to enforce that. You tee off on your appointed time, NOT when the group ahead hits their second shots. This spaces out groups, prevents bunching like a freeway on-ramp during rush hour.
Courses put the onus on players to speed up play, but they need to do their part, as well.
Jcjmw
Jul 1, 2013 at 9:42 pm
jcjmw • a day ago ?
Out on the golf course, NOTHING will change unless and until the course marshalls do something. As an example, I am a local to and regular at Rio Secco Golf Course (Butch Harmon headquarters and home course to Gulbis). Great staff there but lately the marshalls set the pace at 5 hrs. My last 3 rounds there have been 5 hours, like this morning. There was a 1.5 – 2 hole gap between the group in front of us and the next after them. When we complained to the marshall, the response was “our pace of play is 5 hours.” No, I personally know its not. I have been playing Rio for 10+ years and the pace of play used to be 4 hours. Over the years it has gotten worse. The key is the Marshall. If a golf Marshall believes 5 hours is acceptable, then no amount of TV promos or otherwise will make any actual difference on the gold course.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:10 pm
I would present my concerns to course Managers. Tell them the Marshall stated the 5 hour time frame. Make a point to alert them that there are many golfers who are unhappy with the 5 hour rounds and are considering taking their business elsewhere.
If the manager gives you any static about the time frame, call his bluff. Pull out your cell phone right there and make a tee time at another course for your foursome.
The best way to alter the business model of an establishment that eschews customer service is to no longer patronize that business.
John F
Jul 1, 2013 at 4:35 pm
A question for the author, because I have read about the pace of play being quickened by playing “ready golf” many times on GolfWRX. Most golfers aren’t that confident in their shotmaking to feel comfortable with their partners walking up the fairway as they’re shooting. How do you reconcile this with encouraging players to walk up to their ball before the furthest player shoots?
As I understand it, these pace-of-play concerns all hearken back to the problems of declining rounds and how best to “grow the game,” but saying “just play two quicker rounds” is the most tin-eared solution I’ve heard of yet. That might work for members of elite country clubs, but I doubt that preaching to country club members will grow the game much. Two rounds is 100 bucks if you bring your own cooler, and all this best-ball and alternate-shot stuff will leave you shooting a fraction of the shots. Most of the people you want to encourage to get out and play and sink money into the game are going to be hesitant to pay more than a couple bucks a hole for a round, and that would raise it to a couple bucks a shot.
Dennis Clark
Jul 1, 2013 at 7:25 pm
Confidence is not hampered by your partners walking away OUT of your sight. And if you’re talking about walking, that is not the problem; the article states CART DRIVING is slowing play. Most people would be surprised at the joy of match play and the variety of formats it offers. The individual final score obsession is something we might reconsider.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:50 am
“declining rounds”
you nailed the point of this entire ad campaign.
they think too many of us cant see it for what it really is.
and this is coming from someone who can play a round in under 3 hours with my friends that are good sticks. but we also understand who is on the course with us, we are married to women who enjoy the game for us. they dont want to go out with us the few times they do and feel like they are “on the clock”. and good or bad these are the people that would need to play for the game to actually grow.
dont get me wrong, we have all had the groups in font of us who are terrible or completely inconsiderate and refuse to let people through but they are the exception not the norm.
if the courses were actually serious about this pace of play business they would stop putting groups out on top of each other. a group should go out every 12 minutes, no more no less.
shoeshines
Jul 1, 2013 at 9:09 am
This is a reason why golf should consist of three 6 hole courses instead of two nine hole ones, that way people can have the option to play 12 in a reasonable amount of time. The game is simply too long. There are more players now. These are principles that were played in the 1800s when the game was played by very few. No one buzzes through a course anymore. We need to modernize and establish a new pace of play.
KB
Jul 1, 2013 at 8:40 am
The old guys just yesterday were the culprit … I was teeing off with my group on 16, while they were chatting it up the a par-3 17…I wondered how long it would take them to tee off and get going. As we were putting they were still standing there – chatting, making swing movements, talking golf – with no one on the green. They didn’t tee off until we pulled up behind them in our carts.
Really?
WVUgolfer
Jul 1, 2013 at 8:23 am
Golf courses themselves can help with pace. Have beverage stands on specific holes. If the group with honors is at a stand and the tee is open the next group fills the spot. I have seen beverage carts slow play by not properly doing their jobs. Muni’s could shorten their courses. Faster carts! USGA should place an asterisk on handicaps that includes pace of play times. Dr Bob is a 7* with a 5 hour round. 22* with a 3 and a 1/2 hour round.
Dennis Clark
Jun 30, 2013 at 10:06 am
The lead group of the day is the key: If that group can go 3.5 hours and everyone keeps pace, we can tee off every 8-9 minutes and have no trouble.
Jon Silverberg
Jul 2, 2013 at 6:41 pm
Actually, that is incorrect…you cannot tee groups off faster than it takes to play the slowest par 3 (usually 9-10 minutes) without backing up the course…this is not my opinion, research shows it to be fact (it is the same principle as factory throughput depends on the time it takes for the slowest separate process)…for more, see http://www.three45golf.org…the site founder has been on The Golf Channel, writes for Golf Digest and The Met Golfer, etc.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:28 am
+1
Grant
Jun 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm
I play as a single quite regularly. The other day I played two rounds in under 4 hrs (local muni, just over 6k yards from whites). It was very hot (100*+), weekday, and I had a cart. I was lucky enough to play through the entire way through the 2nd round. A few observations:
1. Courses need to manage how crowded the course becomes. I think the vast majority of slow play comes from course overcrowding. On particularly busy days, assistants could be used where the course bottle necks (locate t shots, monitor pace).
2. If your group has waived someone on…keep playing the hole!
3.I don’t think it’s a big deal to ask to play through. If I’m waiting on the group ahead on every shot, I’ll politely ask at the next tee.
My $.02
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:25 am
Well said…
Where is the course accountability in this issue?
Respect the golfers around you and let faster people through, its not a sign of disrespect that they are faster or better.
They may not like that you’re slow but they respect that you acknowledge it and show some etiquette
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:24 am
I completely concur.
Dennis Clark
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:41 pm
Having played the game now for 50 years and taught it for 30, I have done everything in my power, to “teach” faster, yet still enjoyable, golf. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. The point of my article is that if more players discovered the joys of match play, it might be better for moving play along. When foursomes AND four balls are played on busy days, it helps the pace greatly. Note that in the rules of play, a conceded stroke cannot be refused or declined, so marshall them to put that putt for a 7 in their pocket:) And congrats to your group for walking and playing at that pace. Thx for comment.
marty
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm
another article about slow play? really?
there does need to be a place for the slow and beginning players where they can explore how to play the game and not be bothered by you type-A dudes.
Dennis Clark
Jun 29, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Beginning does not have to be slow if they are educated. I have new-player groups play scramble and simply tell them to keep pace with the group in front of them. Its not a personality type, it’s education and common courtesy. If you can’t see the group in front of you, you can bet there are a whole LOTTA folks close behind you.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm
disagree. part of it is definitely personality type.
and any true beginning golfer (unless you’re Jim Thorpe) will be hacking it all over the place and will by definition take a good amount of time to play a round.
just bugs me that part of the hard-earned cash that i dole out for a round of golf gets wasted on overzealous marshals who only care about making money for the course. you want to grow the game? let players regulate themselves and live with the few less paying customers you can fit on the course during the day.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 7:49 am
Just allow type A speeedballers to play through. Every courtesy observed can only help.
Eric
Jul 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Are you serious? What about the other players “Doling Out” their hard earned cash to stand there and wait for slow players not even trying to speed things up and are clueless on golf etequtte! If you are going to golf you should learn not only how to hit the ball and which club to use but also how to play faster and make it enjoyable for “Everyone”. Not A type personality, Common Sense, respectful personality.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:55 pm
No. They are there to move along players who think they can “take their sweet time”…Look, no one wants to wait 5 or 10 minutes to hit every shot. If you are out of position( behind an entire hole) pick up and move along or allow faster players through.
The main reason for course Marshalls is because players cannot police themselves. On a busy day, there is no reason a 4 foursome should take more than 4.5 hours to play 18 holes. 4 hours is expected.
DO the math. 15 minutes per hole is a 4.5 hour pace. 12 minutes per hole is a 3.6 hour pace. So a 4 hour round allows 13.5 mins per hole.
Ken
Jul 5, 2013 at 9:47 am
Hence why they make par 3 courses and driving ranges. Golfers brand new to the game who can barely hit the ball should not be playing 7000 yard regulation courses. It is no fun for them and it is no fun for the other golfers that are being slowed down. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link and the round of 18 is only as fast as the slowest golfer…
Dennis Clark
Jul 5, 2013 at 9:57 am
excellent observation; the courses you choose to play and the tees you choose to play from should be based on your ability and experience.
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:16 am
For a game that is looking for growth at ever turn that sure seems to be a lot of complaining about the very people you want taking the game up.
I play and prefer to play quickly but i’m a 3 index, the pace I can play at is due to my ability. To expect that of my wife who shoots a 120 simply isn’t fair. If respecting those around us by letting them through when it applies isn’t good enough then we will gladly play somewhere that appreciates our hard earned money.
end all that money to dg
naflack
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:18 am
Ignore the last line…phone issue.
Dennis Clark
Jul 5, 2013 at 10:06 am
I don’t think anyone is complaining, rather explaining. Golfers of ANY ability can learn to play faster through education. The article offers suggestions about how to do that. We had a group of “low single digits” who wanted “the first tee time so we don’t have to wait.” Granted. They played the tour tees on a 7500 yard golf course, one broke 80 and the lead group took 4 hour, 30 minutes to play. The group behind them, all average golfers playing from the white tees were on their heels all day. If everyone is educated and plays from the tees they should, play can move nicely.
G
Jun 30, 2013 at 10:58 am
Would you teach your daughter to drive on the freeway? No. You’d only let her drive the freeway when she’s ready. The same is true for golf. The driving range, and muni courses are for learning not a real golf course. “Type-A dudes,” really? Do you call everyone who can do something you can’t a compliment that you obviously mean to be derogatory? What a genius!
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:19 pm
ha! if only you knew– i golf quite quickly.
seems that when i AM playing with slower golfers, the ones that get the angriest at us for ‘holding up play’ are the type-A business dudes or old farts.
rixirox
Jul 3, 2013 at 8:22 am
Ok. I am a type A, old fart business dude. I “play” golf. I play through if I am playing faster. Never encountered a slower foursome that didn’t concede to a courteous request. Season your play with grace.
ScottyBinSLC
Jul 3, 2013 at 12:10 pm
What point are you defending Marty? Being argumentative for argument’s sake does nothing. The point of the discussion and the article is to discuss the problem and potentially come up with creative ways to solve it. Personality types, “old farts”, businessmen, etc. are not the problem or even a result of the problem.
Many who take up the game and who have played for years; albeit only a few rounds a year, take extraordinarily long to play because they don’t take the time to “work” on their game. They hope to sort it out on the course. This takes what used to be a 3.5-4 hr round and turns it into 4.5-6hrs/round. That’s unfair to all others on the course who have paid their use/rental fee.
And despite your feelings about it, golf is a revenue sport. Marshals and course managers all need to be concerned about the number of rounds per year/season in order to not only keep the doors open, but to make improvements and repairs year after year.
I once again would voice that the US moves to a handicap system as it’s played in the EU. To play you present a handicap card and you are placed on the appropriate tees; i.e.: Black/championship= Plus-4.4, Blue=4.5-8.9, White=9-11.4,etc., or something there abouts. The game would be better enjoyed by all, the pressure would be reduced for all high handicappers, and egos would have less of a role.
The course could then be enjoyed and it can become a Game again for all.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:29 pm
oh, and you gotta learn to drive on the freeway at some point. no amount of parking lot (or driving range) practice will prepare you for the real thing.
“real golf course”? really? nice backhanded dis at the large portion of golfers who happen to play muni’s full-time.
marty
Jun 30, 2013 at 7:30 pm
ha! if only you knew– i golf quite quickly.
seems that when i AM playing with slower golfers, the ones that get the angriest at us for ‘holding up play’ are the type-A business dudes or old farts.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 5:01 pm
Most muni’s are easy to play. THat’s where people should learn the game before venturing out on more difficult courses.
Look, golf is a difficult sport to even become moderately proficient.
A newbie should not run out and play A Mike Strantz, Pete Dye or Donald Ross course as they will not enjoy the game and lose interest.
Beginning golfers should play easier tracks so the game is FUN for them. That is where I learned. On the County courses and muni’s.
inncfromnj
Jul 3, 2013 at 4:38 pm
When I was first learning the game, my Dad insisted on learning the rules of golf etiquette first. We walked so there was no issue with cart logic/use.
When I play with novice golfers, I first tell them this is supposed to be fun. No one is paying us to play on tv, so getting upset is not an option. One must learn to play fast before considering playing well.
Nothing to do with type A..A round of golf lasts the time it lasts. It is the constant waiting 5 or 10 minutes to hit a shot is what is ruining the game.
Ryan
Jun 29, 2013 at 11:39 am
I just played this morning in 2 hours 45 min. It was just a 2 some and we were the first group off. I coach high school golf and I work with my golfers on speed all the time. I tell them that if you are going to play bad at least do it fast. I totally agree with an earlier post that you have to teach people how to keep up. Most people that are slow golfers would probably be better if they took less practice swings and less time over the ball.
George
Jun 29, 2013 at 10:26 am
Interesting idea about single carts. As a Marshall I have seen things you would not imagine. I walk and carry as a 60+ year old and 12 handicap. My group usually plays our 6200 yard course in a 3 hour round during the week. When marshalling we strive to have players play 15 minute holes for a 41/2 hour round. Our Marshall’s have no Qualms about asking a slow group to stay in sync with the group ahead. Also if they don’t I will ask them to pick up and go to the next hole. Golfers need to understand that they are renting the course not buying it when they pay for a green fee. Slow play and poor golf etiquette irks Marshall’s as much as the players on the course.
roger
Jun 28, 2013 at 7:01 pm
Slow play causes problems and ruins our game also.
This Summer i have been far more assertive in giving instructions
to slow players in front of my group. Our Firm Instructions with an initial Kind Prompting has yet to be ignored!!!!
Caddyshack. The Best Sound Track ever. Thanks Kenny!
Rob
Jun 28, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Two days ago it took my friend and I 3 hours to play 9 holes due to the group of golfers infront of us. One player would literally top every single shot down the fairway as she went it took her 15 strokes just to make a green on a <300 yard par 4, and the other 3 in her group were no better. None of them played ready golf either – one person would top their shot 20 yeards then they would sit there and talk for a couple minutes then the next person would go through a whole pre-shot routine and then proceed to top her shot 20 yards they would sit there and talk for a couple minutes then the next person would go through her entire pre shot routine only to top it another 20 yards, and so it went for 3 long hours. The worst part is they would not let us play through. Many times we made it too the tee box before they had finished teeing off for the hole, they would look at us and go on their way. The worst part of it all, is the Marshall did nothing about it. He just kept saying "they are sure slow arent they?" It had to be the most frustrating experience I have ever had on the course. There is no excuse for a 5 hour round nevermind a 6 hour round. While we're young!