26 Comments

1. 

   Hamish

   Feb 16, 2015 at 8:37 pm

   Hoary! Bring them to The USA!
   I hope more ‘Quality’ Japan golf equipment come’s to the USA…for the simple reason that OEM’s in USA will have to ‘up’ their quality to match the better Japan forgings & shafts
   USA golfers are fooled by ‘made for shafts’ thinking they have the exact one the Pro has…or heads made in China from inferior materials compared to Japan manufacturers.
   I also hope more golfers in USA ‘can compare’ their buying choices to Japan offerings…
   The Japan club market needs to open up more in USA…

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2. 

   Daniel

   Feb 8, 2015 at 7:00 pm

   Golfers already gives too much attention to clubs, clothes and other equipment.
   I say put your time and money into practice, lessons and playing tournaments.
   Nonconforming clubs is just another distraction from the game.

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3. 

   Golf

   Feb 7, 2015 at 6:01 am

   I’m thinking that there are some that can and want to swing out of their shoes to see how far they can’t hit a high COR driver and that’s ok if that’s what you want to do. Then there are some that for whatever reason i.e. getting older, handicapped etc, that want to simply take a normal swing and possibly pick up a few yards. I believe that this is what Arnold P was talking about. Another thing that is interesting to me is that there is the .830 COR limit, but most of the advertisements for Drivers say that their special designs make them go farther and farther. Farther than what? Ok, so most likely there are $millions being spent on R&D to find out how to make .830 COR driver go farther and get around the distance limitations. Those R&D costs are passed on to the consumer when we purchase one of those new high tech drivers. The non conforming drivers that I’ve seen are a fraction of the cost of the conforming drivers. It would be interesting to see a live TV show and have golfers of different abilities and ages, swing speeds, etc, test the latest high tech drivers against the latest non conforming drivers. One other thing. I’m not criticizing any golf club company. They all have wonderful equipment. I’d just like to see a real live side by side comparison. Not robots and/or math calculations.

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4. 

   Tom Wishon

   Feb 6, 2015 at 11:55 am

   It’s certainly true that one could criticize the Japan OEMs to say that this statement is simply them wanting an avenue to sell more equipment. On the other hand, many do not remember that drivers with a COR higher than the 0.830 limit were legal for play in all countries under the R&A rules until 2008. When the USGA enacted the COR limit at 0.830 in 1998, the R&A balked and refused to go along. So while the US and Mexico players had to keep their driver under 0.830 COR starting in 98, for ten years after that all players in R&A jurisdiction countries, including the Euro Tour, Japan Tour, Asian Tour, SAfrica Tour could play drivers with as high of a COR as they could lay their hands on.

   As such no golfers in the US ever had to give up a longer hitting driver to have to play a shorter hitting club as happened in all these other countries including Japan when the R&A did change course and adopt the COR limit of the USGA in 2008.

   No matter what, this situation of non conforming clubs is most definitely a polarizing issue. Because 50% of our business has always been in countries under the R&A rules, I designed an 0.890 driver that we sold to the international customers up until 2008. We did most definitely put a clear statement in the catalog each year saying this driver was non conforming in the USGA countries. But it was interesting that we would still get nasty emails from US golfers from time to time accusing us of helping golfers “cheat” by offering this driver.

   In reality, the difference between an 0.830 and 0.890 driver is really just not that great for avg golfers with a clubhead speed of under 100mph. If we believe the stat that says the avg male golfer has a driver clubhead speed of 87mph, for that speed a change from 0.830 to 0.890 would represent not more than 9 yards more distance.

   The other fascinating thing I remember about those years when the R&A allowed the higher COR driver was what happened in 1999 on the European Tour. With high COR drivers legal for play on the Euro Tour in 1999, at the start of the season 56 players started the season with what at that time was the highest COR driver, the ERC II from Callaway. By year’s end, 4 were still playing the ERC II, 52 had given it up and gone back to a USGA legal driver no higher than 0.830. Players who switched were asked why and the overwhelming majority said because it was more difficult to keep the higher COR driver in the fairway.

   So what did that say? I take it to mean that distance is self policing. And from that, one certainly could say that if the JGGA does begin to offer higher COR drivers, most likely it will have no effect on harming the game except for the occasional argument or fight that may occur when a “hawk” takes offense at a playing partner using such a club.

   As a long time designer, I am all for rules to prevent equipment from harming the game. Especially for the ball because that is the one piece of equipment for which technology does exist that would harm the game. I also believe that some of the equipment rules enacted in the past 15 yrs were unneeded and enacted from a standpoint of emotion and lack of technical or practical knowledge – 460cc limit on driver size, 48″ limit on length, 2010 groove rule, body anchored putters.

   I can also see that if a golfer ONLY plays for fun and never in a competition, and there are a lot in that category, they should be able to play with non conforming clubs if it means they keep getting out to play and enjoying their time on the course. But it is a potentially devisive issue, no question about that.

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5. 

   Derrick

   Feb 5, 2015 at 10:16 am

   I say to each his own. Play what you want. If you don’t like someone playing non-conforming clubs in casual play then you need to remove the stick from your behind.

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6. 

   Bruce

   Feb 5, 2015 at 4:43 am

   I personally have no reason to play NCE….but…
   it will be interesting to see how far these companies can take equipment.
   I want to see a ball that goes 400 yards and stops on a dime.

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7. 

   jj

   Feb 5, 2015 at 1:36 am

   Golf has become a crooked farce played by robots….. its not a great game anymore!

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8. 

   par guy

   Feb 4, 2015 at 3:22 pm

   Encourage the wide world of amateurs and give them everything science can create and control the professionals so they can teach us what is humanly possible. Thank you Japan

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9. 

   Juan L. Fourqiet

   Feb 4, 2015 at 1:14 pm

   Do you want a 10/15 additional yards from your driver? Get fitted by a competent clubmaker, no need resorting to nonconforming ones . I tell you from my own experience.

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   • 

     leftright

     Feb 6, 2015 at 8:13 am

     The “competent” club fitter I went to tried to convince me only $400 shafts would get me the yardage I needed so I got one and lost yardage because higher end shafts tend to be stiffer and have lower torque numbers and many people cannot load them. I had a shaft that I had no use for worth half of what I paid and then I find out the fitter is endorsed by the shaft manufacturer and gets commission. I’d be curious to know who is endorsing Tom Wishon who advocates golfer spends tons of money to play golf from fitting, special golf clubs and shafts, expert instruction, etc in every article. I have heard “more” fitting horror stories than I have ever heard someone say it really helped them. Byron, Ben, Arnold, Jack, Tom, Lee, Sam, Walter and Gene did not get fitted.

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10. 

    Dutxdeanster

    Feb 4, 2015 at 9:25 am

    non conforming wedges are definately a game changer.

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11. 

    adam

    Feb 3, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    Everyone here is talking clubs. I want a non-conforming bag

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12. 

    joe cline

    Feb 3, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    i beg to differ WRX on your statement that no U.S. OEM has ever produced an illegal club. was not the ERC 2 by Callaway a non-conforming club and later discontinued. i remember one Arnold Palmer endorsing it!!

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    • 

      Daniel

      Feb 3, 2015 at 9:43 pm

      The article says “No major U.S. golf manufacturer has a current line of non-conforming equipment”

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13. 

    Scooter McGavin

    Feb 3, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    This is a good thing. Honestly, if the golf “industry” as a whole wants to attract players, they need to prevent new people from getting discouraged and frustrated with the game. The vast majority of golfers do not compete, so there is no point in them making the game harder for themselves if they just want to go out and have fun.

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14. 

    Andrew

    Feb 3, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    Bravo Japan!

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15. 

    Double Mocha Man

    Feb 3, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    I’m fine with non-conforming equipment. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking you are better than you are. And don’t enter into club tournaments.

    Personally, I use the non-conforming swing…

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16. 

    Jason

    Feb 3, 2015 at 11:57 am

    I would love play with some non conforming equipment just to see how much or even if it would benefit my game, but I would feel that I was cheating.

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17. 

    Tom

    Feb 3, 2015 at 11:47 am

    The news is ‘Japan Golf Goods Association endorses sale of non-conforming clubs’. JDM manufacturers have been producing and selling non-conforming drivers, wedges and balls for a long time now. In fact one of Japan’s larger chain golf shops ‘Golf 5’, which stocks all the big OEMs, has their own brand of non-conforming golf balls and wedges which they sell in store. In other words the JGGA is just recognizing the reality of their market and members.

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18. 

    Mike

    Feb 3, 2015 at 11:09 am

    This is not a good direction… I wish the limits were harsher making the game shorter. Shorter drivers and balls means shorter courses, less use of land, less water and more conservation.

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    • 

      Bernal Castillo

      Feb 3, 2015 at 4:56 pm

      Sorry, but golf courses eat more carbon dioxide and product more oxygen than almost any other type of terrain, either man made or natural.

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    • 

      You are kidding right?

      Feb 4, 2015 at 5:56 pm

      Really with this? Cows breaking wind produce more methane (an actual greenhouse gas) daily than anything manmade. Don’t believe me? Look it up. Its the reason several countries cannot meet international standards of methane production. Also where are you getting this conservation nonsense. Wouldn’t you want more large areas of grass and trees… I dunno… kinda how the earth was before urbanization? Its not like some magic wand will be waived and convert the left over land from your “shorter courses” will become nature preserves. Most likely it will become residential or commercial property due to the high value of land. You are literally the first person I have ever seen comment on how eliminating acres from golf courses would be beneficial to the environment. Considering all the real environmental issues that are out there, course land area should be at the bottom of your laundry list of complaints. Actually, scratch that, it shouldn’t even be on your list.

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      • 

        graymulligan

        Feb 5, 2015 at 10:13 am

        The whole cow fart “fact” is fun, but completely untrue. Cows produce more methane from their mouths than their behinds, and while they are the third largest producer of methane in the US behind a couple of industrial sources, methane isn’t the only greenhouse gas, and it trails behind carbon monoxide in overall greenhouse gas production.

        Cars are still “killing the environment” way more than cows are. The more you know!

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19. 

    west

    Feb 3, 2015 at 10:45 am

    I think Grenade drivers have been selling non-confirming drivers for a while now. And why not? People pay good money for their tee times, let them hit the clubs they want. If anything, it will help promote the game, as beginning players will be less frustrated with this highly challenging game. As they improve their skills, I’m sure these same people will gravitate towards conforming clubs.

    And if not, let people have fun hitting 300+ bombs!

    As long as people don’t use them in sanctioned tournaments, I think it’s good for the game!

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    • 

      Sully

      Feb 3, 2015 at 11:05 am

      West,

      Thanks for your comment. The Grenade golf driver is USGA legal but still very long. I am actually launching a separate company over the next few weeks for illegal golf drivers, more info to come. Feel free to reach out if you have questions 802 448 2094

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20. 

    chad ryan

    Feb 3, 2015 at 10:26 am

    This will be interesting. I’ve always wondered what kind of performance a non conforming club can achieve. I think a lot of WRX’rs will be shopping the JDM marketplaces soon.

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