Instruction

Stopping the slice: Fix the path or the face?

Published

11 years ago

Aug 26, 2013

I was reading a debate between two teachers, both of whom use golf radar (Trackman and FlightScope), and they were discussing the “best” way to fix the average golfer’s slice. One was adamant about fixing club path first, while the other focused on fixing the clubface first.

Obviously, both instructors were working toward the same goal, but they were attacking it from two different directions. Personally, I don’t get involved too often within these debates, but this one made me think and I wanted to add my two cents.

During the “video era” of golf instruction (the one in which I learned how to teach golf), instructors became WAY too focused on “position golf.” Most of the time, the “good” positions did help the average player, but sometimes instructors caused their players to lose the individuality of their swings in the process. That caused issues within many golfers’ fundamentals — they were trying to do something that they could not do only because it looked good on on video. From there, the argument was made that instructors made players look stiff and robotic. Worst of all, the teaching style made many golfers way too position conscious, because their instructors didn’t realize that there was more than one way to move the body and club successfully.

Now, rewind to my Twitter debate of one teacher only focusing on the club path, and one focusing on the clubface. Is it not similar to the “video era” discussion above?

The Path-First Teacher

Let’s take this sample slicer from my Trackman and ask ourselves a few questions if you’re a path-first only teacher:

What if the sample player had a path that was never going to be cured due to 50 years of an over-the-top move?
Could this player’s path be fixed if he only practiced once a week during his 30-minute lunch?
Does this player have the motivation to cure this over-the-top path, and is he willing to endure a few rounds of bad shots in order to cure this for good?
Does fixing his path correlate with the goals HE expressed to you at the beginning of the lesson?
Is this the path of least resistance for him to follow in order to reach these goals?

The Face-First Teacher

Let’s take this sample slicer from my Trackman and ask ourselves a few questions if you’re a face-first only teacher:

If this player tends to swing from the inside this much and tends to hit down on the ball, is fixing the face really going to give him the ball control he needs?
Will changing the face angle at impact help this player to stop hitting too much down on it with the driver?
If the face begins to move too far left of the path then he will begin to hit bigger hooks. Will this cause him to swing more to the right and hook it even farther left?
Will fixing the face angle help this player to reach the goals that he established at the start of the instruction?
Is this the path of least resistance for this player based on his stated goals?

So what’s the correct way to fix these players? IT’S BOTH!

Sometimes, I decide that it’s best to fix the path first, while other times I fix the face first. It all depends on the goals that the student and I determine from our interview process!

If someone wants to break 125 for the first time, why would I even take him to the lesson tee? Instead, we hit the short game area. But a player wants to play in college, then that’s an entirely different lesson.

What about the weekend slicer who has always come majorly over the top and has never seen the ball move left? All he wants to do is hit it left, so why wouldn’t you change his face angle? What about the handsy player who swings too much from the inside — why wouldn’t you fix his swing direction?

It’s amazing how some teachers focus only on “their way” as the only way. They push everyone into the mold that they determine to be best without listening to the person actually taking the lesson in the first place! Isn’t it up to the student as to what they want us to do for them on the lesson tee? After that, it’s a yin and yang between the teacher and student. Remember not everyone can move like a tour player!

As good golf instructors have known all along, there is more than one way to fix a golf swing. Teaching golf is not all about what the numbers on my Trackman say — it’s about what the student wants me to do. Fixing a slice is not all about fixing the face or path first; it’s about fixing the slice in the easiest way possible so the player can return to the course the next time in a better frame of mind and play better than ever before.

That is teaching my friend.

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Tom Stickney II

Tom F. Stickney II, is a specialist in Biomechanics for Golf, Physiology, and 3d Motion Analysis. He has a degree in Exercise and Fitness and has been a Director of Instruction for almost 30 years at resorts and clubs such as- The Four Seasons Punta Mita, BIGHORN Golf Club, The Club at Cordillera, The Promontory Club, and the Sandestin Golf and Beach Resort. His past and present instructional awards include the following: Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher, Golf Digest Top 50 International Instructor, Golf Tips Top 25 Instructor, Best in State (Florida, Colorado, and California,) Top 20 Teachers Under 40, Best Young Teachers and many more. Tom is a Trackman University Master/Partner, a distinction held by less than 25 people in the world. Tom is TPI Certified- Level 1, Golf Level 2, Level 2- Power, and Level 2- Fitness and believes that you cannot reach your maximum potential as a player with out some focus on your physiology. You can reach him at [email protected] and he welcomes any questions you may have.

16 Comments

Pingback: How to Correct a Slice in Golf – Golfer Kingdom
Adam Young

Sep 11, 2013 at 12:47 pm

Great article. There are some important considerations in here for all teachers to take note of. I myself teach with the same philosophy.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat – and as golfers there are many ways to achieve impact physics which are ‘good enough’ to play great golf.

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Andrew Cooper

Aug 30, 2013 at 11:58 am

Can’t always be one way or the other. Find the root problem and then get to work on that first. If a golfer has a weak grip and/or rolls the club into an open position during their swing then, if they ever want to hit their target, they’ll have to swing left to compensate for the open face angle. Conversely, if they’ve a fairly neutral grip and club face angle through the swing but have, for instance, open shoulder alignment at address or an over the top move from top of the backswing, then they’ll have to block and hold the face open to compensate for the out to in path-if they squared and released the club face at impact they’d miss their target left every time.

Get the club face square to closed and they’ll lose the need to swing left; get the swing path on line to inside and they’ll lose the need to block and hold the face open.

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yo!

Aug 29, 2013 at 6:58 pm

If you don’t fix both, you will never have good, pure contact. But if you want to have a quick but imperfect fix, then fix one and you may avoid the woods on the right side (for a right hander) more often.

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- yo!
  
  Aug 29, 2013 at 7:01 pm
  
  Actually, if I had to fix one first, I would fix the path first. You would retain power and distance and be able to hit those power fades. Of course, that is based on the assumption that the club face is not overly open.
  
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Dave Tutelman

Aug 28, 2013 at 2:39 pm

The solution depends on the problem. Most slicers I’ve seen have a path problem. If the ball starts at the target and then slices, the face is pretty good already. It’s a face problem only if the ball starts out to the right. (Assuming a right-handed golfer, of course.)

So the question isn’t which do you fix first. It’s which is the actual problem THAT golfer is having — the one that NEEDS fixing. Usually you don’t have to fix both.

Most instructors have a problem with this analysis. But the PGA teaching manual had incorrect “ball flight rules” until less than 20 years ago. Teaching the teachers still hasn’t completely caught up with what we now know about ball flight.

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stephenf

Aug 28, 2013 at 12:38 pm

There are _so_ few players below pro or top-level amateur who actually come at the ball from the inside, though. Truth is, if you have that steep-and-outside path, and you add a strong release to it (closing the face through impact), you can’t do anything but hit left-to-left, which will make you aim farther and farther to the right. When I was teaching, I was pretty adamant about going after path first, if you wanted to become any kind of player at all.

However, it’s also true that release and path affect each other. The steeper and more outside you are, the harder it is to release the club well, in nearly 100% of the cases I’ve seen. That’s because of both the physiology of it and the mental cue that tells you you _can’t_ release it or you’ll hit it off the world to the left. So it just gets worse and worse. But, in one of those typical golf paradoxes, you also can improve your path by improving your release, because your body doesn’t sense the need to pull everything left because of a bad release anymore. I had my best success — both with students and in my own competitive play — by working on drills to improve both. Still, I think if I had to start with one or the other, for at least 80-90% of players it would be path, because that tends to unlock the release, or give you at least the _potential_ for a good release.

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- stephenf
  
  Aug 28, 2013 at 12:42 pm
  
  Incidentally, what the author says about “position” teachers is so, SO true. Go to any high-traffic range these days, especially on a day when high-school or even college players are there, and you’ll see a ton of swings that fit the mold, look pretty, etc., but too many of them result in shots that are relatively lifeless and/or not particularly related to the target, even among fairly advanced (and typically overtaught) players.
  
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Peter

Aug 27, 2013 at 1:22 am

If you fix the face only, having an out-to-in path, the flight path will get straighter, but it is still a fade, even, when it goes straight.

Also my 2-cents is that straight fade is better for most weekenders, since the trajectory will be higher, than when hitting from inside and stops more easily with lesser swingspeeds.

One other thing, is that while the aim for college guy will most likely to be determined enough to do everything necessary and beyond, it may not be that big difference in how the movement of a player looks like, yet the launch variables changes drastically.

I used to move the club with a swing-look-alike, but there were no impact pressure, not with longer irons at least. The movements seemed to somewhat correct, yet the power was produced with wrong muscles and in wrong sequence. Same rythm in the opposite direction did the trick, but it was no easy ride to change that.

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- S
  
  Aug 27, 2013 at 11:42 am
  
  Learn to write in English first
  
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naflack

Aug 27, 2013 at 1:10 am

i had one and only one experiance with the position based teaching.
the guy, well intentioned as he was, put me into a “must” backswing position which put more strain on my left shoulder than any golf swing had ever done. i knew then and there my days of taking lessons were over, until now with trackman and flight scope. it is encouraging that more and more teachers are encouraging good golfers to swing their way. i just wish it happened 10 years earlier, lol.

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Obie

Aug 26, 2013 at 4:56 pm

I guess it’s about finding an instructor who is willing to work with what you have. For myself, I do slice and would love to hit a draw all the time but realistically it’s probably not going to happen. I would really just like to hit it straight most of the time. Thanks for the advice.

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- Roger
  
  Aug 26, 2013 at 10:09 pm
  
  It’s really hard to hit dead straight balls. Most either draw or fade their shots.
  
  Reply Report comment
  - S
    
    Aug 27, 2013 at 11:40 am
    
    Not true at all. It’s easy to hit dead straight balls. If you’ve already given up on doing it, then you’ll never do it, as the saying goes. That’s how golf is too.
    
    Reply Report comment
    - stephenf
      
      Aug 28, 2013 at 12:43 pm
      
      Wow. So I guess Hogan, Nicklaus, and Trevino were wrong. Among others, I mean.
      
      Reply Report comment
- qabloona
  
  Aug 28, 2013 at 11:44 am
  
  I purchased a Medicus Vision Track this winter in Florida and would highly recommend it to anyone with a slice problem. I was a consistent slicer and this simple tool allows me to hit it straight and even draw the ball when I want. I am a senior citizen with little athletic ability and I was astounded how my game improved once I started getting on the correct plane. There is hope !
  
  Reply Report comment

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Instruction

Clement: Laid-off or perfect fade? Across-the-line or perfect draw?

Published

1 day ago

Apr 24, 2024

Shawn Clement

Some call the image on the left laid off, but if you are hitting a fade, this could be a perfect backswing for it! Same for across the line for a draw! Stop racking your brain with perceived mistakes and simply match backswing to shot shape!

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Instruction

The Wedge Guy: The easiest-to-learn golf basic

Published

4 weeks ago

Mar 29, 2024

Terry Koehler

My golf learning began with this simple fact – if you don’t have a fundamentally sound hold on the golf club, it is practically impossible for your body to execute a fundamentally sound golf swing. I’m still a big believer that the golf swing is much easier to execute if you begin with the proper hold on the club.

As you might imagine, I come into contact with hundreds of golfers of all skill levels. And it is very rare to see a good player with a bad hold on the golf club. There are some exceptions, for sure, but they are very few and very far between, and they typically have beat so many balls with their poor grip that they’ve found a way to work around it.

The reality of biophysics is that the body moves only in certain ways – and the particulars of the way you hold the golf club can totally prevent a sound swing motion that allows the club to release properly through the impact zone. The wonderful thing is that anyone can learn how to put a fundamentally sound hold on the golf club, and you can practice it anywhere your hands are not otherwise engaged, like watching TV or just sitting and relaxing.

Whether you prefer an overlap, interlock or full-finger (not baseball!) grip on the club, the same fundamentals apply. Here are the major grip faults I see most often, in the order of the frequency:

Mis-aligned hands

By this I mean that the palms of the two hands are not parallel to each other. Too many golfers have a weak left hand and strong right, or vice versa. The easiest way to learn how to hold the club with your palms aligned properly is to grip a plain wooden ruler or yardstick. It forces the hands to align properly and shows you how that feels. If you grip and re-grip a yardstick several times, then grip a club, you’ll see that the learning curve is almost immediate.

The position of the grip in the upper/left hand

I also observe many golfers who have the butt of the grip too far into the heel pad of the upper hand (the left hand for right-handed players). It’s amazing how much easier it is to release the club through the ball if even 1/4-1/2″ of the butt is beyond the left heel pad. Try this yourself to see what I mean. Swing the club freely with just your left hand and notice the difference in its release from when you hold it at the end of the grip, versus gripping down even a half inch.

To help you really understand how this works, go to the range and hit shots with your five-iron gripped down a full inch to make the club the same length as your seven-iron. You will probably see an amazing shot shape difference, and likely not see as much distance loss as you would expect.

Too much lower (right) hand on the club

It seems like almost all golfers of 8-10 handicap or higher have the club too far into the palm of the lower hand, because that feels “good” if you are trying to control the path of the clubhead to the ball. But the golf swing is not an effort to hit at the ball – it is a swing of the club. The proper hold on the club has the grip underneath the pad at the base of the fingers. This will likely feel “weak” to you — like you cannot control the club like that. EXACTLY. You should not be trying to control the club with your lower/master hand.

Gripping too tightly

Nearly all golfers hold the club too tightly, which tenses up the forearms and prevents a proper release of the club through impact. In order for the club to move back and through properly, you must feel that the club is controlled by the last three fingers of the upper hand, and the middle two fingers of the lower hand. If you engage your thumbs and forefingers in “holding” the club, the result will almost always be a grip that is too tight. Try this for yourself. Hold the club in your upper hand only, and squeeze firmly with just the last three fingers, with the forefinger and thumb off the club entirely. You have good control, but your forearms are not tense. Then begin to squeeze down with your thumb and forefinger and observe the tensing of the entire forearm. This is the way we are made, so the key to preventing tenseness in the arms is to hold the club very lightly with the “pinchers” — the thumbs and forefingers.

So, those are what I believe are the four fundamentals of a good grip. Anyone can learn them in their home or office very quickly. There is no easier way to improve your ball striking consistency and add distance than giving more attention to the way you hold the golf club.

Clement: Stop ripping off your swing with this drill!

Published

2 months ago

Mar 4, 2024

Shawn Clement

Not the dreaded headcover under the armpit drill! As if your body is defective and can’t function by itself! Have you seen how incredible the human machine is with all the incredible feats of agility all kinds of athletes are accomplishing? You think your body is so defective (the good Lord is laughing his head off at you) that it needs a headcover tucked under the armpit so you can swing like T-Rex?

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