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The Science of Square: Is a wrist position at the top like DJ better for your swing?

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I recently wrote an article called “The Science of Square: Understanding the relationship between the wrist and the club face,” about the wrist action during the swing and what happens when you change conditions from address to the top, and how that affects the club face. In addition, I suggested that the average golfer plays from a more square condition at the top, rather than one that is radically shut (i.e. Dustin Johnson). I did not say that the average player could not play from a slightly shut condition, but remember, compensations have to occur.

However, there has been a growing number of better players who have had wonderful success playing from conditions at the top that range from slightly shut to super-shut. Think about the swings of John Rahm, Justin Thomas, Brooks Koepka, Tony Finau, and Dustin Johnson at the top.

So in this article, let’s examine the shut club face position at the top using Hack Motion’s Wrist Sensor so you can see how the wrist action changes when this type of position occurs during the swing. I took a few sample swings with the new “modern” swing… slightly stronger grip working into a flexed lead wrist at the top, which causes the shut face at the top like DJ. Here is what we saw…

At address we see that the wrist in the stronger position possesses 32 degrees of extension, or cupping at address, which is common with stronger grips showing more knuckles.

At the top I moved from 32 degrees of extension to -12 degrees of flexion a change of 52 degrees from address to the top. I will tell you that moving your wrist from extended to flexed is hard enough and to do so like DJ is superhuman!

Now here is where it gets interesting… in the chest-high position on the way down I still possess -7 degrees of flexion, meaning the club now swinging from the inside has a face that is slightly shut. These two things together will cause the ball to move from the right to the left easier because I won’t have to think about the “release.”

Above is the delivery position around belt-high, the lead wrist is still into flexion and will also deloft the club and deliver some extra shaft lean coming into the ball. Great for players with a ton of speed.

Impact (above) for me is with a neutral lead wrist, which means that the club was delivered with solid impact alignments. But why isn’t mine flexed more at impact? Because with my lack of Tour Quality Swing Speed, I simply cannot get the ball to go high enough or stay in the air long enough to work for me, thus, I have to hit the ball in a more neutral impact position. This is one of the biggest reasons why this position will not work for players without higher than normal swing speeds.

In fact, many great teachers feel that this has merits for the slower swing speeds as well, but with a caveat. Brian Manzella, a Golf Digest Top-50 Teacher and a Golf Magazine Top-100 Teacher, says

“To me, all club faces are open at the top relative to the target, so armed with a stronger grip, the face is less open during the swing. This helps some slicers by giving them less to close by the time of impact, and helps some good players hitting fades easier at high speed, by unwinding their bodies more and having their hands more forward at impact. However, the main advantage for folks with more neutral top of the backswing positions, is that if your wrist is flexed late, you can start to go toward extension to add speed and still have forward lean at impact.”

Basically he’s saying that for neutral players, if you have some bowing of the left wrist within your deliver position, you can get away with some “throw” at the bottom and still have solid impact!

The bottom line is that you must figure out what position works best for you and your game. For me, I play better from a more neutral position due to my lack of speed, but that shouldn’t deter you from trying the stronger grip and more shut position at the top; heck it just might be YOUR key to success.

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Tom F. Stickney II is the Director of Instruction and Business Development at Punta Mita, in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico (www.puntamita.com) He is a Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher, and has been honored as a Golf Digest Best Teacher and a Golf Tips Top-25 Instructor. Tom is also a Trackman University Master/Partner, a distinction held by less than 15 people in the world. Punta Mita is a 1500 acre Golf and Beach Resort located just 45 minuted from Puerto Vallarta on a beautiful peninsula surrounded by the Bay of Banderas on three sides. Amenities include two Nicklaus Signature Golf Courses- with 14 holes directly on the water, a Golf Academy, four private Beach Clubs, a Four Seasons Hotel, a St. Regis Hotel, as well as, multiple private Villas and Homesites available. For more information regarding Punta Mita, golf outings, golf schools and private lessons, please email: tom.stickney@puntamita.com

17 Comments

17 Comments

  1. BooBoo

    Sep 18, 2018 at 8:53 am

    Either bow it (DJ) or cup it (Hogan) but don’t neutral it (Tom?!?) unless you want two way misses and failing under pressure even when you practice hours every day…

  2. op

    Sep 15, 2018 at 3:19 pm

    Stinkney floods the forum with superficial tips and ignores questioning and accountability.

    • op

      Sep 16, 2018 at 10:00 pm

      Stinkney just waits until his article falls off the main website page. Wotta woose

  3. stevet

    Sep 13, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    Tom, another question. You can set or reset your lead wrist in static positions — at Address and at Top of Swing when reversal occurs. Once you start your swing what influence does the trail hand have on the dynamic positions of the lead wrist? Thanks.

    • geo

      Sep 14, 2018 at 10:43 am

      DJ’s trail hand has palm facing the sky. The lead wrist can be cupped or bowed, as long as trail palm faces the sky, the golf swing will stay , Inside the ball.

      The proverbial “waiter carrying the tray” position at the top of the swing, is the key.

      Ref: The Hogan Manual of Human Performance: GOLF, 1992.

      • stevet

        Sep 14, 2018 at 2:55 pm

        I can see that too but what does the trail hand do in the downswing and how does it affect the position of the lead wrist? Remember that the lead wrist must windmill freely so that the club can fully release into impact.

        • geohogan

          Sep 15, 2018 at 7:38 pm

          The hands simply hold on to the golf club.
          With DS taking less than 1/4 second and impact 5/10,000 of a second, we cannot know where the club is in space in real time during the DS, nor can we consciously initiate any change once the DS has begun.

          What happens to the lead wrist in DS is a result of Lag. Lag is the lodestar and palm of the trail hand facing the sky from the top of the BS is the key to lag.

          REF. The Hogan Manual of Human Performance: GOLF, 1992.

          • ogo

            Sep 16, 2018 at 3:31 pm

            Stop refering to Hogan, 1992 because his book is filled with technical flaws and his concepts are erroneous. He calls the wheel a “lever system”. It’s not; it’s a torque system. He refers to levers and forces but doesn’t understand torque. He’s not science educated. He’s a fraud.

  4. stevet

    Sep 13, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    Okay, Tom, but what about the “100 lbs. centrifugal force” in final release that stretches out the lead arm and wrist and straightens them out? If you try to maintain a flexed or extended lead wrist through impact you are consciously compensating over milliseconds. Not possible unless you are slowing down going into impact. Thanks.

    • geohogan

      Sep 15, 2018 at 7:50 pm

      Slowing down it is. It is deceleration of proximal that is cause of acceleration of distal. REF: TPI, Kinematic sequence.

      So as a result of the deceleration of the arms in the DS, the lever (golf club) accelerates with the wrists acting as free hinges.

      The example written about in 1992, was the analogy of the runner hitting a trip wire.

      When the runner’s ankles going at a constant pace, hit the trip wire, the runners head hits the ground; his head accelerates due to centripedal acceleration through the radius (from his ankle to his head being the radius).

      • shane

        Sep 16, 2018 at 3:00 pm

        You are not Tom Stickney so buzz off

        • geohogan

          Sep 17, 2018 at 12:59 pm

          Waiting for Godot???

        • geohogan

          Sep 17, 2018 at 1:18 pm

          “I’ve gone back to a lot of stuff I used to do with my dad and how he first taught me how to play golf,” Woods said. “I f “I’ve built this golf swing … with my hands. My dad always used to say that’s the only thing we have direct contact with the club, so trust your hands.”

          Move over, Chris Como, Tiger’s hands are in charge now!
          “Playing baseball as a kid, you have to trust your hands,” Woods said. “I’ve trusted my hands again.

          more on hands in the golf swing: 1992.

        • geohogan

          Sep 17, 2018 at 7:47 pm

          and your not stevet, so sod off

      • stevet

        Sep 18, 2018 at 12:12 am

        “… the lever (golf club) accelerates with the wrists acting as free hinges.”.
        A “lever” cannot pivot around a “free hinge”, because a lever requires a fulcrum; the point on which a lever rests or is supported and on which it pivots. Where’s the fulcrum?

  5. stevet

    Sep 13, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Reread the first article before reading this article to see the whole picture. Tom, this Hack Motion Wrist Sensor data is pure scientific data that eliminates the “feel” factor. Keep it coming because this is the only way to eliminate anecdotal subjective comments. Thanks again.

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Instruction

Stickney: Sit on it (for a better backswing)

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As we know golf, is a very tough sport and one that involves many moving pieces. Whenever something overreacts or moves too much on the way back, you end up playing catch-up on the way down. One of my favorite things to watch is how the head moves or doesn’t move on the backswing. Sure, you can have some movement, but you can’t have too much or you put yourself behind the eight ball.

I have charted the head position of a tour player at address and we can see that this is a very normal set up position. It is one that looks positioned to do great things.

However, en route to the top, you can see that this player has put himself into a position where his rear knee straightened too rapidly off the start of his backswing. When this occurs the pelvis “runs out from under” the upper body on the backswing the hips will react and begin to slant downward. (You can see a -10 degree tilt versus 3 degrees the opposite way at address for you number people.)

This causes the head to move out in front of where it was at address. This is not a bad position for the irons but for a driver we have a pending issue. If you don’t make a compensation from here then the player will have an angle of attack that is too much downward through impact with their driver.

As the player moves into his transition, the hips have leveled as the rear shoulder lowers the club into delivery but the head and pelvis are still too far out in front of the ball. The only thing you can do from here is fire the lead side upwards and hope that your head falls back into the correct position. If so, you will have the correct angle of attack, if not, you will chop down on the ball causing your launch conditions to be faulty.

And as we see here that this is precisely what this player did at the very last minute…not the easiest way to swing the club but it is functional IF you make the right correction. So, now that you understand how simple things like the action of the lower body can cause your head to move and your angle of attack to become faulty, what is the secret to controlling your lower body?


Just “sit” on the rear knee flex slightly longer during the backswing as you see here. This will slow down the tilting of the pelvis on backswing and thus your head will stay more in position en route to the top.

Personally, I teach both flexion and extension of the rear knee to the top, depending on what the player is wanting to do, so it really does not matter. However, what does matter is the rate at which it begins to straighten for those of you who do allow it to lengthen. I try to make most of my students hold the most of their address flex until the club moves between belt and chest high, any sooner and you risk the faulty pivot we saw above.

Therefore, take it from me and “sit on it” slightly longer for more quiet head motions as well as a more balanced backswing—your angle of attack will thank you!

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Davies: Training the trail elbow in the golf swing

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Alistair Davies shares with you how to get the correct trail arm and elbow action in the downswing. He shares some great drills that can be done at the range or at home to help lower your scores.Get the correct training for the trail arm here today!

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The important lessons you can learn from Peter Senior’s golf swing

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He may not be a household name in the United States, but Australia’s Peter Senior has a swing for the ages. At 60 years old, Senior has 34 worldwide professional wins including the 2015 Australian Masters beating a competitive field with several top-ranked players in the world. Turning professional in 1978, his career has spanned over 40 years.

Senior’s game and swing have stood the test of time, and the longevity of his career should be recognized. Senior formerly worked with Australian instructor Gary Edwin, and the structure to this swing taught to Senior paved the way for a future of consistent, high-quality professional golf.

Having a great golf swing isn’t the only key to becoming a great golfer, one must learn to play the game. However, you can learn a lot from Senior’s swing.

The origin to Senior’s swing lies in his set-up. Senior sets up in what I call his “hitting angles” or a position that mirrors impact.

From this position, Senior is able to simply keep these angles he established at address throughout the swing. This is why the set-up is so critical. The further he deviates from these “hitting angles”, the more he will have to find that impact position with his body in the backswing and downswing. In other words, more movement. The goal of his backswing will be to maintain these original starting angles.

From the picture, Senior has maintained his original body shape that he established at address. From this position, it will be much easier and repeatable to return the club to impact.

Note how his impact position now mirrors his original address position. All his original angles were maintained with a slight bump of the body towards the target. From impact, he can simply fold up his arms as his right side of his body rotates around his left side, keeping the clubface square to the body.

This standing tall finish position with the head following the torso is much easier on the back. His body has come forward and around beautifully, covering the ball for a proper strike.

The beauty of Senior’s swing lies in its simplicity. The changes Senior made to his swing can apply to anyone. Let’s look at two simple drills to make your swing more efficient and powerful.

“To a large extent, my backswing is a product of my set-up position” – Tiger Woods, Golf Digest 2020

To get into these impact angles simply practice pushing into an impact bag with the head and shaft of the club. Make sure your trail arm is tucked, lowering the trail shoulder as you pressure the bag.

To get the feeling of the proper coil from this set-up position, grab an impact bag and hold the bag in front of you.

From here, swing the bag around you with your arms keeping the top of the bag level. You will feel the trail side of your body move back and the lead side move out, coiling around your spine angle.

The trail glute will also move back and around with this drill, a key move the great Ben Hogan used to pivot his body. To develop an efficient swing and a long, injury-free career, take note of Peter Senior’s key moves.

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