Opinion & Analysis
Should we really “roll back” the golf ball? A deep dive…
The USGA and R&A ruling bodies recently released their 2017 Distance Report, which gathered data from seven major tours. The driving distance of each player was measured using TrackMan and ShotLink on two select holes during each tournament. This analysis cumulatively yielded roughly 40,000 pieces of data over the course of a year. The report revealed that the average driving distance on the PGA Tour increased by a total of 3 yards over the past year, while the greatest increase was 10 yards on the Web.com Tour.
The report ignited a firestorm of comments. The general consensus is that the sport is facing a crisis — depending on who you believe and/or your group affiliation. They all have a vested interest in the outcome.
There are two issues on the table. They are linked together, but they also have individual considerations.
- The Distance the Golf Ball is Traveling: There are many reasons why the ball is going farther than ever before. There are some in the industry who believe the golf ball is not the problem and it would be a mistake to roll it back.
- The Golf Ball Itself: There are others in the industry of the opinion that the answer is to roll back the distance the golf ball travels by as much as 20 percent. Those in this group believe the golf ball is the problem, regardless of other factors that are contributing to what has been dubbed a“Distance Creep.”
In both cases, most everyone agrees that something must be done. The numbers tell the story. In 1980, the first year of officially measured drives on tour, the average distance off the tee was 257 yards. In the early 2000s, there were only a few players who we able to drive the ball over 300 yards. Today, there are 57 PGA Tour players who average 300 yards or more off the tee. A major concern is that most of the great courses throughout the country are becoming obsolete.
Wally Uihlein, the former leader of Titleist, has argued there are many contributing factors to the increased distances shots are now traveling: “thin face, oversized titanium drivers; low-spinning, solid core, high performance golf balls; the physiology of today’s professional golfer; improved technique and instruction; mobile launch monitors and customization of equipment; improved golf course conditioning and agronomy,” as he told GOLF in 2017.
GROUP 1
These three men, together with their respective organizations, will ultimately make the decision as to what should be done with respect to the golf ball and distance issue.
- Mike Davis, Executive Director of the USGA: Davis is the lead spokesman on this issue for the USGA. “These courses are expanding and are predicted to continue to expand. All it’s doing is increasing the cost of the game. The impact it has had has been horrible.”
- Mark Nowell, President USGA: The newly elected President’s comments have been more general in nature. “We have been, and we’re going to be focused on what that situation is and how we can deal with it … there is no fixed timetable, but we will commence this process immediately and endeavor to reach a conclusion as promptly as possible.”
- Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of the R&A: The R&A will vote in accordance with the USGA. “I’m looking at the balance between skill and technology — are they in balance, is it good for the recreational game? And should it be the same for the elite game?”
GROUP 2
There are two other groups that have the ability to sway both public and private opinion. They are the PGA of America and the PGA Tour. The leaders of these two groups believe that the golf ball in not the problem, but that there are other extraneous factors responsible for the increased distance the golf ball travels.
- Jay Monahan, Commissioner of the PGA Tour: “We believe this increase in club head speed is mostly attributable to a combination of factors, such as increased player athleticism and fitness, physical build of the player and enhancements in equipment fitting.”
- Pete Bevacqua, CEO of the PGA of America: “We are highly skeptical that rolling back the golf ball in whole or part will be in the best interests of the sport and our collective efforts to grow the game.”
GROUP 3
And then there are the players, past and present. Jack Nicklaus has been at the forefront of this issue dating back to 1977 when he first called on the USGA to look at making a change to the ball. Nicklaus believes the distance the ball travels should be rolled back 20 percent.
- Tiger Woods agrees with Nicklaus that the ball travels too far. “I think the ball is going too far,” he said. “You would not want to take away the amateur’s ability to hit the ball farther and straighter, but with the touring pros you might want to roll the ball back… like in baseball you would have a pro ball and an amateur ball.
- Dustin Johnson agreed with Tiger Woods in a press conference in late November 2017, but then he changed his mind a few months later.” When was the last time you saw someone make the game too easy? I don’t really understand what all the debate is about, because it doesn’t matter how far it goes; it is about getting it in the hole.”
- Geoff Ogilvy agrees with Tiger Woods, using a similar baseball analogy. “Major League Baseball in America, they use wooden bats … everywhere else in baseball, they use aluminum bats. That’s kind of what’s happened to us at least with the drivers of these big hitters. We’ve completely outgrown the stadiums. So, do you rebuild every stadium in the world? That’s expensive. Or make the ball go shorter?”
- Gary Player, Hale Irwin and the late Arnold Palmer all have at one time or another agreed with Jack Nicklaus that something needs to be done with the ball because it travels too far.
GROUP 4
The last group that is a stakeholder in any decision made are the manufactures. A required change in the ball could mean thousands if not millions of dollars required to retool golf ball manufacturing plants. And from Titleist’s perspective, as they are the leader in sales with the greatest presence on the professional tours, there looms the possible loss of market share.
- Wally Uihlein, Former President and CEO of Acushnet, Titleist’s parent company, does not believe the ball is the problem. Titleist conducted its own study adding further context to the Distance Report’s finding of a three-yard average gain year over year across golf’s seven prominent professional tours. Titleist’s research shows a 0.5-yard gain in distance at PGA Tour events in 2017 that were played at the same course as 2016. Of the courses that were new for the 2016-17 season, Titleist found most of increase came at three of the major championship venues: the U.S. Open (Erin Hills vs. Oakmont, +20.4 yards), the British Open (Royal Birkdale vs. Royal Troon, +8.1 yards) and the PGA Championship (Quail Hollow vs. Baltusrol, +7.0 yards).
- Angel Ilagan, Bridgestone Golf President and CEO, says the company agrees with Tiger Woods that the distance the pro ball travels should be reduced while the equipment and the ball should be “juiced for the amateur.” “As it relates to the Tour, there needs to be something to standardize the ball because these guys are hitting it way too long,” he said.
- David Abeles, CEO and President TaylorMade: “We believe innovation and technology lead to better performance, and better performance brings more joy to the game for all who play it … As the discussion around bifurcation and rollback formalizes, we look forward to having a seat at the table to lend our voice. Until then, we will continue to create the best performing products for all golfers.”
In the end, we know it is about what the R&A and the USGA decide. They are like the Supreme Court; their decision is final. The PGA Tour and the PGA of America are like co-counsels presenting their case unofficially to the public and the media. And the players are on the opposing side, presenting their case for change—a roll back of the distance the ball travels.
What will the USGA decide, and when will it decide? We have seen through other changes at the USGA and R&A that they prefer a slow rollout rather than an fast rollback. The USGA has had to deal with other sensitive issues in the past. The current issue is reminiscent of the “battle of the groves” when Ping’s Karsten Solheim sued the USGA for $100 million in 1987. The lawsuit was eventually dropped, and Ping’s Eye2 irons were grandfathered in.
There was most recently the ban on anchoring, in which the PGA Tour and the PGA of America were considering enacting their own rules. After the USGA announced its intention in May 2013, the ban went into effect January 1, 2016. There was a period in which open discussion was entertained, and then after listening to various points of view the USGA set a date in which the ban on anchoring would go into effect: January 16, 2016. The PGA of America and the PGA Tour eventually capitulated.
In 1998, there was the issue of thin-faced drivers that were popularized by Callaway and TaylorMade. The USGA implemented a new rule restricting the coefficient of restitution to a value of 0.83 for drivers. The rule was then adopted world-wide by 2003.
It’s clear that the USGA moves carefully. It’s interested in hearing every point of view, which takes time. It also favors setting a date in the future when the rules change will become effective but, in the meantime, there is a waiting period in which those who are affected have the time and opportunity to adjust. What is also clear is the USGA is interested in doing what’s best for the game. While its actions may at times seem capricious and arbitrary, those who hold that opinion are the individuals that have been directly affected by a rules change.
As in the past, the USGA has shown that it will not back down from a fight if it believes the cause is just. At the same time, however, the USGA will listen to every point of view. This approach obviates the possibility of an out-and-out showdown. The greatest predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and for that reason I would predict that the USGA will announce its intention to make a change in the rules with regards to the ball in 2018. But whatever changes it decides, it will not go into effect until 2020 for professionals.
As for amateurs, the USGA will have to decide what the best approach is when it comes to them. They could:
- Reduce the distance the ball travels to match the standards applied to the professionals
- Keep it the same as today without making any changes
- Increase the limit the ball travels
Those who are in favor of regulating the distance the ball travels are not in favor of doing anything that would reduce the enjoyment of the amateur or have a negative effect on growing the game. As we consider the issue, we must believe that Mike Davis, Executive Director of the USGA, meant what he said over dinner with Jack Nicklaus in November of 1997. They were discussing the increasing distance the ball is traveling, and sarcastically Nicklaus asked Davis, “Are you going to study the issue for another 10 years?”
And Davis answered defensively, “No, no, no, we’re going to get there… and I’m going to need your help when we do.”
That sounds like a promise to me. What do you think?
- LIKE73
- LEGIT27
- WOW1
- LOL10
- IDHT2
- FLOP13
- OB6
- SHANK40
19th Hole
Vincenzi’s 2024 PGA Championship betting preview: Rising star ready to join the immortals at Valhalla
The second major of the 2024 season is upon us as the world’s best players will tee it up this week at Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville, Kentucky to compete for the Wanamaker Trophy.
The last time we saw Valhalla host a major championship, Rory McIlroy fended off Phil Mickelson, Henrik Stenson, Rickie Fowler and the creeping darkness that was descending upon the golf course. The Northern Irishman had the golf world in the palm of his hand, joining only Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus as players who’d won four major championships by the time they were 25 years old.
Valhalla is named after the great hall described in Norse mythology where the souls of Vikings feasted and celebrated with the Gods. The course is a Jack Nicklaus-design that has ranked among Golf Digest’s “America’s 100 Greatest Courses” for three decades.
Valhalla Golf Club is a par-71 measuring 7,542 yards with Zoysia fairways and Bentgrass greens. The course has rolling hills and dangerous streams scattered throughout and the signature 13th hole is picturesque with limestone and unique bunkering protecting the green. The 2024 PGA Championship will mark the fourth time Valhalla has hosted the event.
The field this week will consist of 156 players, including 16 PGA Champions and 33 Major Champions.
Past Winners of the PGA Championship
- 2023: Brooks Koepka (-9) Oak Hill
- 2022: Justin Thomas (-5) Southern Hills
- 2021: Phil Mickelson (-6) Kiawah Island
- 2020: Collin Morikawa (-13) TPC Harding Park
- 2019: Brooks Koepka (-8) Bethpage Black
- 2018: Brooks Koepka (-16) Bellerive
- 2017: Justin Thomas (-8) Quail Hollow
- 2016: Jimmy Walker (-14) Baltusrol
- 2015: Jason Day (-20) Whistling Straits
- 2014: Rory McIlroy (-16) Valhalla
In this article and going forward, I’ll be using the Rabbit Hole by Betsperts Golf data engine to develop my custom model. If you want to build your own model or check out all of the detailed stats, you can sign up using promo code: MATTVIN for 25% off any subscription package (yearly is best value).
Key Stats For Valhalla
Let’s take a look at five key metrics for Oak Hill to determine which golfers boast top marks in each category over their past 24 rounds.
1. Strokes Gained: Approach
Valhalla will play as a true all-around test of golf for the world’s best. Of course, it will take strong approach play to win a major championship.
Strokes Gained: Approach Over Past 24 Rounds
- Shane Lowry (+1.25)
- Scottie Scheffler (+1.09)
- Jordan Smith (+1.05)
- Tom Hoge (+.96)
- Corey Conners (+.94)
2. Strokes Gained: Off the Tee
Valhalla will play long and the rough will be penal. Players who are incredibly short off the tee and/or have a hard time hitting fairways will be all but eliminated from contention this week at the PGA Championship.
Strokes Gained: Off the Tee Over Past 24 Rounds:
- Bryson DeChambeau (+1.47)
- Scottie Scheffler (+1.11)
- Keith Mitchell (+.90)
- Alejandro Tosti (+.89)
- Ludvig Aberg (+.82)
Strokes Gained: Total on Nickalus Designs
Valhalla is a classic Nicklaus Design. Players who play well at Nicklaus designs should have an advantage coming into this major championship.
Strokes Gained: Total on Nicklaus Designs over past 36 rounds:
- Jon Rahm (+2.56)
- Scottie Scheffler (+2.48)
- Patrick Cantlay (+2.35)
- Collin Morikawa (+1.79)
- Shane Lowry (+1.57)
Strokes Gained: Tee to Green on Very Long Courses
Valhalla is going to play extremely long this week. Players who have had success playing very long golf courses should be better equipped to handle the conditions of this major championship.
Strokes Gained: Total on Very Long Courses Over Past 24 Rounds:
- Scottie Scheffler (+2.44)
- Rory McIlroy (+2.24)
- Will Zalatoris (+1.78)
- Viktor Hovland (+1.69)
- Xander Schauffele (+1.60)
Strokes Gained: Total in Major Championships
One factor that tends to play a large role in deciding major championships is which players have played well in previous majors leading up to the event.
Strokes Gained: Total in Major Championships over past 20 rounds:
- Scottie Scheffler (+3.14)
- Will Zalatoris (+2.64)
- Rory McIlroy (+2.49)
- Xander Schauffele (+2.48)
- Tommy Fleetwood (2.09)
Strokes Gained: Putting on Bentgrass Greens
Valhalla features pure Bentgrass putting surfaces. Players who are comfortable putting on this surface will have an advantage on the greens.
Strokes Gained: Putting on Bentgrass Greens over Past 24 Rounds:
- Ludvig Aberg (+1.12)
- Denny McCarthy (+1.08)
- Matt Fitzpatrick (+0.99)
- Justin Rose (+0.93)
- J.T. Poston (0.87)
Strokes Gained: Total on Zoysia Fairways
Valhalla features Zoysia fairways. Players who are comfortable playing on this surface will have an advantage on the field.
Strokes Gained: Total on Zoysia Fairways over past 36 rounds:
- Justin Thomas (+1.53)
- Will Zalatoris (+1.47)
- Xander Schauffele (+1.40)
- Brooks Koepka (+1.35)
- Rory McIlroy (+1.23)
2024 PGA Championship Model Rankings
Below, I’ve compiled overall model rankings using a combination of the key statistical categories previously discussed — SG: Approach (25%), SG: Off the Tee (22%), SG: T2G on Very Long Courses (12%), SG: Putting on Bentgrass (+12%), SG: Total on Nicklaus Designs (12%). SG: Total on Zoysia Fairways (8%), and SG: Total in Major Championships (8%).
- Brooks Koepka
- Xander Schauffele
- Rory McIlroy
- Scottie Scheffler
- Bryson DeChambeau
- Shane Lowry
- Alex Noren
- Will Zalatoris
- Cameron Young
- Keith Mitchell
- Hideki Matsuyama
- Billy Horschel
- Patrick Cantlay
- Viktor Hovland
- Adam Schenk
- Chris Kirk
- Sahith Theegala
- Min Woo Lee
- Joaquin Niemann
- Justin Thomas
2024 PGA Championship Picks
Ludvig Aberg +1800 (BetMGM)
At The Masters, Ludvig Aberg announced to the golf world that he’s no longer an “up and coming” player. He’s one of the best players in the game of golf, regardless of experience.
Augusta National gave Aberg some necessary scar tissue and showed him what being in contention at a major championship felt like down the stretch. Unsurprisingly, he made a costly mistake, hitting it in the water left of the 11th hole, but showed his resilience by immediately bouncing back. He went on to birdie two of his next three holes and finished in solo second by three shots. With the type of demeanor that remains cool in pressure situations, I believe Ludvig has the right mental game to win a major at this point in his career.
Aberg has not finished outside of the top-25 in his past eight starts, which includes two runner-up finishes at both a “Signature Event” and a major championship. The 24-year-old is absolutely dominant with his driver, which will give him a major advantage this week. In the field he ranks, in Strokes Gained: Off the Tee, and has gained strokes in the category in each of his past ten starts. Aberg is already one of the best drivers of the golf ball on the planet.
In Norse mythology, Valhalla is the great hall where the souls of Vikings feasted and celebrated with the Gods. The Swedes, who are of Old Norse origin, were the last of the three Scandinavian Kingdoms to abandon the Old Norse Gods. A Swede played a major role in the 2014 PGA Championship at Valhalla, and I believe another, Ludvig Aberg, will be the one to conquer Valhalla in 2024.
Bryson DeChambeau +2800 (BetMGM)
Bryson DeChambeau is one of the few players in the world that I believe has the game to go blow-for-blow with Scottie Scheffler. Although he isn’t as consistent as Scheffler, when he’s at his best, Bryson has the talent to beat him.
At The Masters, DeChambeau put forth a valiant effort at a golf course that simply does not suit his game. Valhalla, on the other hand, is a course that should be perfect for the 30-year-old. His ability to overpower a golf course with his driver will be a serious weapon this week.
Bryson has had some success at Jack Nicklaus designs throughout his career as he won the Memorial at Muirfield Village back in 2018. He’s also had incredible results on Bentgrass greens for the entirety of his professional career. Of his 10 wins, nine of them have come on Bentgrass greens, with the only exception being the Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill. He also has second place finishes at Medinah and TPC Summerlin, which feature Bentgrass greens.
Love him or hate him, it’s impossible to argue that Bryson isn’t one of the most exciting and important players in the game of golf. He’s also one of the best players in the world. A second major is coming soon for DeChambeau, and I believe he should be amongst the favorites to hoist the Wanamaker Trophy this week.
Patrick Cantlay +4000 (FanDuel)
There’s no way of getting around it: Patrick Cantlay has been dissapointing in major championships throughout his professional career. He’s been one of the top players on Tour for a handful of years and has yet to truly contend at a major championship, with the arguable exception of the 2019 Masters.
Despite not winning majors, Cantlay has won some big events. The 32-year-old has won two BMW Championships, two Memorial Tournaments as well as a Tour Championship. His victories at Memorial indicate how much Cantlay loves Nicklaus designs, where he ranks 3rd in the field in Strokes Gained: Total over his past 36 rounds behind only Scottie Scheffler and Jon Rahm.
Cantlay also loves Bentgrass greens. Six of Cantlay’s seven individual wins on the PGA Tour have come on Bentgrass greens and he also was one of the best putters at the 2023 Ryder cup at Marco Simone (also Bentgrass). At Caves Valley (2021 BMW Championship), he gained over 12 strokes putting to outduel another Bentgrass specialist, Bryson DeChambeau.
Cantlay finished 22nd in The Masters, which was a solid result considering how many elite players struggled that week. He also has two top-ten finishes in his past five PGA Championships. He’s undeniably one of the best players in the field, therefore, it comes down to believing Cantlay has the mental fortitude to win a major, which I do.
Joaquin Niemann +4000 (BetMGM)
I believe Joaquin Niemann is one of the best players in the world. He has three worldwide wins since December and has continued to improve over the course of his impressive career thus far. Still only 25, the Chilean has all the tools to be a serious contender in major championships for years to come.
Niemann has been the best player on LIV this season. Plenty will argue with the format or source of the money on LIV, but no one can argue that beating players such as Jon Rahm, Bryson DeChambeau, Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka and Cameron Smith is an unremarkable achievement. Niemann is an elite driver of the golf ball who hits it farther than just about anyone in the field not named Bryson DeChambeau or (arguably) Rory McIlroy.
Niemann is another player who has been fantastic throughout his career on Bentgrass greens. Prior to leaving the PGA Tour, Bentgrass was the only green surface in which Joaco was a positive putter. It’s clearly a surface that he is very comfortable putting on and should fare around and on the greens this week.
Niemann is a perfect fit for Valhalla. His low and penetrating ball flight will get him plenty of runout this week on the fairways and he should have shorter shots into the green complexes than his competitors. To this point in his career, the former top ranked amateur in the world (2018) has been underwhelming in major championships, but I don’t believe that will last much longer. Joaquin Niemann is a major championship caliber player and has a real chance to contend this week at Valhalla.
- LIKE26
- LEGIT9
- WOW3
- LOL1
- IDHT1
- FLOP3
- OB1
- SHANK11
In my last post, I explained the basic performance dynamics of “smash factor” and “gear effect” as they apply to your wedges and your wedge play success. If you missed that post, you can read it here.
At the end of that post, I promised “part 2” of this discussion of what makes a wedge work the way it does. So, let’s dive into the other two components of any wedge – the shaft and the grip.
It’s long been said that the shaft is “the engine of the golf club.” The shaft (and grip) are your only connection to all the technologies that are packed into the head of any golf club, whether it be a driver, fairway, hybrid, iron, wedge or even putter.
And you cannot ignore those two components of your wedges if your goal is optimizing your performance.
I’ve long been an advocate of what I call a “seamless transition” from your irons into your wedges, so that the feel and performance do not disconnect when you choose a gap wedge, for example, instead of your iron-set-matching “P-club.” In today’s golf equipment marketplace, more and more golfers are making the investment of time and money to experience an iron fitting, going through trial and error and launch monitor measuring to get just the right shaft in their irons.
But then so many of those same golfers just go into a store and choose wedges off the retail display, with no similar science involved at all. And that’s why I see so many golfers with a huge disconnect between their custom-fitted irons, often with lighter and/or softer graphite or light steel shafts . . . and their off-the-rack wedges with the stock stiff steel ‘wedge flex’ shaft common to those stock offerings.
If your wedge shafts are significantly heavier and stiffer than the shafts in your irons, it is physically impossible for you to make the same swing. Period.
To quickly improve your wedge play, one of the first things you can do is have your wedges re-shafted with the same or similar shaft that is in your irons.
There’s another side of that shaft weight equation; if you don’t have the forearm and hand strength of a PGA Tour professional, you simply cannot “handle” the same weight shaft that those guys play to master the myriad of ‘touch shots’ around the greens.
Now, let’s move on to the third and other key component of your wedges – the grips. If those are not similar in shape and feel to the grips on your irons, you have another disconnect. Have your grips checked by a qualified golf club professionals to make sure you are in sync there.
The one caveat to that advice is that I am a proponent of a reduced taper in your wedge grips – putting two to four more layers of tape under the lower hand, or selecting one of the many reduced taper grips on the market. That accomplishes two goals for your scoring.
First, it helps reduce overactive hands in your full and near-full wedge swings. Quiet hands are key to good wedge shots.
And secondly, it provides a more consistent feel of the wedge in your hands as you grip down for those shorter and more delicate shots around the greens. And you should always grip down as you get into those touch shots. I call it “getting closer to your work.”
So, if you will spend as much time selecting the shafts and grips for your wedges as you do choosing the brand, model, and loft of them, your scoring range performance will get better.
More from the Wedge Guy
- The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work? Part 1
- The Wedge Guy: The easiest-to-learn golf basic
- The Wedge Guy: Golf mastery begins with your wedge game
- LIKE6
- LEGIT3
- WOW0
- LOL1
- IDHT1
- FLOP0
- OB0
- SHANK5
19th Hole
Vincenzi’s 2024 Wells Fargo Championship betting preview: Tommy Fleetwood ready to finally land maiden PGA Tour title
The PGA Tour season ramps back up this week for another “signature event,” as golf fans look forward to the year’s second major championship next week.
After two weaker-field events in the Zurich Classic and the CJ Cup Byron Nelson, most of the best players in the world will head to historic Quail Hollow for one of the best non-major tournaments of the year.
Last season, Wyndham Clark won the event by four shots.
Quail Hollow is a par-71 measuring 7,521 yards that features Bermudagrass greens. The tree-lined, parkland style course can play quite difficult and features one of the most difficult three-hole stretches in golf known as “The Green Mile,” which makes up holes 16-18: two mammoth par 4s and a 221-yard par 3. All three holes have an average score over par, and water is in play in each of the last five holes on the course.
The field is excellent this week with 68 golfers teeing it up without a cut. All of the golfers who’ve qualified are set to tee it up, with the exception of Scottie Scheffler, who is expecting the birth of his first child.
Past Winners at Quail Hollow
- 2023: Wyndham Clark (-19)
- 2022: Max Homa (-8)
- 2021: Rory McIlroy (-10)
- 2019: Max Homa (-15)
- 2018: Jason Day (-12)
- 2017: Justin Thomas (-8) (PGA Championship)
- 2016: James Hahn (-9)
- 2015: Rory McIlroy (-21)
Key Stats For Quail Hollow
Strokes Gained: Approach
Strokes gained: Approach will be extremely important this week as second shots at Quail Hollow can be very difficult.
Total SG: Approach Over Past 24 Rounds
- Akshay Bhatia (+1.16)
- Tom Hoge (+1.12)
- Corey Conners (+1.01)
- Shane Lowry (+0.93)
- Austin Eckroat (+0.82)
Strokes Gained: Off the Tee
Quail Hollow is a long course on which it is important to play from the fairway. Both distance and accuracy are important, as shorter tee shots will result in approach shots from 200 or more yards. With most of the holes heavily tree lined, errant drives will create some real trouble for the players.
Strokes Gained: Off the Tee Past 24 Rounds:
- Ludvig Aberg (+0.73)
- Rory McIlroy (+0.69)
- Xander Schauffele (+0.62)
- Viktor Hovland (+0.58)
- Chris Kirk (+0.52)
Proximity: 175-200
The 175-200 range is key at Quail Hollow. Players who can hit their long irons well will rise to the top of the leaderboard.
Proximity: 175-200+ over past 24 rounds:
- Cameron Young (28’2″)
- Akshay Bhatia (29’6″)
- Ludvig Aberg (+30’6″)
- Sam Burns (+30’6″)
- Collin Morikawa (+30’9″)
SG: Total on Tom Fazio Designs
Players who thrive on Tom Fazio designs get a bump for me at Quail Hollow this week.
SG: Total on Tom Fazio Designs over past 36 rounds:
- Patrick Cantlay (+2.10)
- Rory McIlroy (+1.95)
- Tommy Fleetwood (+1.68)
- Austin Eckroat (+1.60)
- Will Zalatoris (+1.57)
Strokes Gained: Putting (Bermudagrass)
Strokes Gained: Putting has historically graded out as the most important statistic at Quail Hollow. While it isn’t always predictable, I do want to have it in the model to bump up golfers who prefer to putt on Bermudagrass.
Strokes Gained: Putting (Bermudagrass) Over Past 24 Rounds:
- Taylor Moore (+0.82)
- Nick Dunlap (+.76)
- Wyndham Clark (+.69)
- Emiliano Grillo (+.64)
- Cam Davis (+.61)
Course History
This stat will incorporate players that have played well in the past at Quail Hollow.
Course History over past 36 rounds (per round):
- Rory McIlroy (+2.50)
- Justin Thomas (+1.96)
- Jason Day (+1.92)
- Rickie Fowler (+1.83)
- Viktor Hovland (+1.78)
Wells Fargo Championship Model Rankings
Below, I’ve compiled overall model rankings using a combination of the five key statistical categories previously discussed — SG: Approach (27%), SG: Off the Tee (23%), SG: Total on Fazio designs (12%), Proximity: 175-200 (12%), SG: Putting Bermuda grass (12%), and Course History (14%).
- Wyndham Clark
- Rory McIlroy
- Xander Schauffele
- Shane Lowry
- Hideki Matsuyama
- Viktor Hovland
- Cameron Young
- Austin Eckroat
- Byeong Hun An
- Justin Thomas
2024 Wells Fargo Championship Picks
Tommy Fleetwood +2500 (DraftKings)
I know many out there have Tommy fatigue when it comes to betting, which is completely understandable given his lack of ability to win on the PGA Tour thus far in his career. However, history has shown us that players with Fleetwood’s talent eventually break though, and I believe for Tommy, it’s just a matter of time.
Fleetwood has been excellent on Tom Fazio designs. Over his past 36 rounds, he ranks 3rd in the field in Strokes Gained: Total on Fazio tracks. He’s also been incredibly reliable off the tee this season. He’s gained strokes in the category in eight of his past nine starts, including at The Masters, the PLAYERS and the three “signature events” of the season. Tommy is a golfer built for tougher courses and can grind it out in difficult conditions.
Last year, Fleetwood was the first-round leader at this event, firing a Thursday 65. He finished the event in a tie for 5th place.
For those worried about Fleetwood’s disappointing start his last time out at Harbour Town, he’s bounced back nicely after plenty of poor outings this season. His T7 at the Valero Texas Open was after a MC and T35 in his prior two starts and his win at the Dubai Invitational came after a T47 at the Sentry.
I expect Tommy to bounce back this week and contend at Quail Hollow.
Justin Thomas +3000 (DraftKings)
It’s been a rough couple of years for Justin Thomas, but I don’t believe things are quite as bad as they seem for JT. He got caught in the bad side of the draw at Augusta for last month’s Masters and has gained strokes on approach in seven of his nine starts in 2024.
Thomas may have found something in his most recent start at the RBC Heritage. He finished T5 at a course that he isn’t the best fit for on paper. He also finally got the putter working and ranked 15th in Strokes Gained: Putting for the week.
The two-time PGA champion captured the first of his two major championships at Quail Hollow back in 2017, and some good vibes from the course may be enough to get JT out of his slump.
Thomas hasn’t won an event in just about two years. However, I still believe that will change soon as he’s been one of the most prolific winners throughout his PGA Tour career. Since 2015, he has 15 PGA Tour wins.
Course history is pretty sticky at Quail Hollow, with players who like the course playing well there on a regular basis. In addition to JT’s PGA Championship win in 2017, he went 4-1 at the 2022 Presidents Cup and finished T14 at the event last year despite being in poor form. Thomas can return as one of the top players on the PGA Tour with a win at a “signature event” this week.
Cameron Young +3500 (DraftKings)
For many golf bettors, it’s been frustrating backing Cam Young this season. His talent is undeniable, and one of the best and most consistent performers on the PGA Tour. He just hasn’t broken through with a victory yet. Quail Hollow has been a great place for elite players to get their first victory. Rory McIlroy, Anthony Kim, Rickie Fowler and Wyndham Clark all notched their first PGA Tour win at Quail.
Throughout Cam Young’s career, he has thrived at tougher courses with strong fields. This season, he finished T16 at Riviera and T9 at Augusta National, demonstrating his preference of a tough test. His ability to hit the ball long and straight off the tee make him an ideal fit for Quail Hollow, despite playing pretty poorly his first time out in 2023 (T59). Young should be comfortable playing in the region as he played his college golf at Wake Forest, which is about an hour’s drive from Quail Hollow.
The 26-year-old has played well at Tom Fazio designs in the past and ranks 8th in the field in Strokes Gained: Total on those courses in his last 36 rounds. Perhaps most importantly, this season, Young is the best player on the PGA Tour in terms of proximity from 175-200 in the fairway, which is where a plurality and many crucial shots will come from this week.
Young is an elite talent and Quail Hollow has been kind to players of his ilk who’ve yet to win on Tour.
Byeong Hun An +5000 (FanDuel)
Byeong Hun An missed some opportunities last weekend at the CJ Cup Byron Nelson. He finished T4 and played some outstanding golf, but a couple of missed short putts prevented him from getting to the winning score of -23. Despite not getting the win, it’s hard to view An’s performance as anything other than an overwhelming success. It was An’s fourth top-ten finish of the season.
Last week, An gained 6.5 strokes ball striking, which was 7th in the field. He also ranked 12th for Strokes Gained: Approach and 13th for Strokes Gained: Off the Tee. The South Korean has been hitting the ball so well from tee to green all season long and he now heads to a golf course that should reward his precision.
An’s driver and long irons are absolute weapons. At Quail Hollow, players will see plenty of approach shots from the 175-200 range as well as some from 200+. In his past 24 rounds, Ben ranks 3rd in the field in proximity from 175-200 and 12th in proximity from 200+. Playing in an event that will not end up being a “birdie” fest should help An, who can separate from the field with his strong tee to green play. The putter may not always cooperate but getting to -15 is much easier than getting to -23 for elite ball strikers who tend to struggle on the greens.
Winning a “signature event” feels like a tall task for An this week with so many elite players in the field. However, he’s finished T16 at the Genesis Invitational, T16 at The Masters and T8 at the Arnold Palmer Invitational. The 32-year-old’s game has improved drastically this season and I believe he’s ready to get the biggest win of his career.
- LIKE9
- LEGIT4
- WOW1
- LOL1
- IDHT1
- FLOP1
- OB0
- SHANK1
Dave Portnoy places monstrous outright bet for the 2024 Masters
Things got heated at the Houston Open between Tony Finau and Alejandro Tosti. Here’s why
Justin Thomas on the equipment choice of Scottie Scheffler that he thinks is ‘weird’
Tiger Woods arrives at 2024 Masters equipped with a putter that may surprise you
‘Absolutely crazy’ – Major champ lays into Patrick Cantlay over his decision on final hole of RBC Heritage
Report: Tiger Woods has ‘eliminated sex’ in preparation for the 2024 Masters
Two star names reportedly blanked Jon Rahm all week at the Masters
Report: LIV Golf identifies latest star name they hope to sign to breakaway tour
Neal Shipley presser ends in awkward fashion after reporter claims Tiger handed him note on 8th fairway
What we know about Bryson DeChambeau’s 3D-printed Avoda irons
WITB Time Machine: Rory McIlroy’s winning WITB, 2014 PGA Championship
It’s hard to believe it’s been 10 years since Rory McIlroy outlasted Phil Mickelson at the 2014 PGA Championship. It’s...
Tiger Woods WITB 2024 (May)
Tiger Woods WITB accurate as of the PGA Championship. In-hand photos from 2024 Genesis Open. Check out more photos of Tiger...
Michael Block WITB 2024 (May)
Michael Block what’s in the bag accurate as of the PGA Championship. Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 “Dot” (9 degrees @7.5) Shaft:...
Brooks Koepka WITB 2024 (May)
Brooks Koepka what’s in the bag accurate as of the PGA Championship. Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 “Dot” (10.5 degrees @9.75) Shaft:...
-
19th Hole3 weeks agoLET pro gives detailed financial breakdown of first week on tour…and the net result may shock you
-
19th Hole1 week agoReport: LIV star turns down PGA Championship invite due to ‘personal commitments’
-
19th Hole2 weeks agoGary Player claims this is what ‘completely ruined’ Tiger Woods’ career
-
Equipment7 days agoDetails on Justin Thomas’ driver switch at the Wells Fargo Championship
-
Whats in the Bag2 weeks agoTeam McIlowry (Rory McIlroy, Shane Lowry) winning WITBs: 2024 Zurich Classic
-
Whats in the Bag1 week agoKeegan Bradley WITB 2024 (May)
-
Equipment2 weeks agoGolf fans left surprised by LIV’s choice of course for its 2024 individual championship event
-
Equipment2 weeks agoWhy Wesley Bryan is playing two 4-irons this week
Paul
Mar 29, 2018 at 3:21 pm
Maybe this is a dumb question, but why can’t we let the pros just shoot lower scores?
Tom Newsted
Mar 29, 2018 at 8:13 am
This has been covered by so many people across the internet who have done testing with balls from today and balls from 20 – 25 years ago. I say put them on the robots and see if there is any major difference 20-30 yards is a major difference. If the robots are close then there is no reason to change the ball. I have said many times that this issue is the result of the players being in much better shape than ever before. Both PGA and LPGA players are extremely fit and have a physical trainer as part of their game. This along with some technology is why the ball is going further not the ball itself. When Tiger came on the scene in 97 he was the only one that took physical fitness seriously now all the kids that grew up wanting to be Tiger have done the same thing.
glfhsslr
Mar 29, 2018 at 6:36 am
MLB uses wooden bats yes. Ask some of the MLB pitchers of their opinion of the ball, They’ll all tell its juiced.
If the USGA decides to roll the ball back I think they should expand the hole to 6″ wide lol. Id make that exchange all day
Square
Mar 29, 2018 at 5:54 am
Every single decision should be based on how to make the game more fun, affordable, and optimum pace for amateur players. There should be no consideration as to what Tour Players are doing. Rolling back the ball for amateurs will not grow the game. I hit the ball 280 off the tee 25 years ago. At age 48 I still hit it 280 off the tee. Technology has allowed me to enjoy nearly the same experience for 25 years. If I was hitting it 240, I’d probably have slowed down a bit and picked up other interests.
gvogelsang
Mar 29, 2018 at 8:37 am
Why would you want the game to be easier. A big part of what makes golf a great game is the difficulty.
If you need easier, move up a set of tees, or two.
ewfnick
Mar 29, 2018 at 5:14 am
I have stopped watching golf on TV these days as it is simply boring, driver, wedge, driver, wedge, all that gets shown most of the time is putting, as the approach game has become too obvious.
I will continue to love and play the game, but watching for me, is now a thing of the past.
A. Commoner
Mar 28, 2018 at 10:06 pm
Don’t care what the PGA, Tour, USGA, or R&A does. There will be makers of and markets for balls appropriate for 90% of us “real” golfers. Just an aside: some people have strange ideas about how to “grow the game.”
KP
Mar 28, 2018 at 8:03 pm
Been playing since 1993. Busted my a** trying to hit it longer any straighter. Down to a 3 now, was a scratch about 10 years ago. I practice a few times a week and play on one or both weekend days. My handicap climbed when they got rid of belly putters. If they roll the ball back because the beasts that are the PGA Tour are hitting it further than they like and I start hitting it noticeably shorter…I’m done.
Hogan Fan
Mar 29, 2018 at 4:52 am
In all seriousness, the article compared golf to baseball and the analogy is correct. Do we rebuild all the stadiums or just make the ball go shorter? If they make it a bit shorter to control the costs of course maintenance, then everyone should just move up a proportionate amount. 10% rollback? Stop playing 7000 yards and go back to playing 6300. There are a ton of great courses under 6500 yards.
Mat
Mar 30, 2018 at 4:32 am
No, MLB also requires all parks to be 330 to the poles now, and 400 CF. So you can’t go saying “play a shorter course”, and say baseball is an example. It’s opposite. They are ensuring the “course” is a minimum distance.
Mat
Mar 28, 2018 at 7:59 pm
Frankly, there’s only one thing I care about. Whatever is decided in the area of the ball, and equipment in its entirety, is simple; it must remain equal, pros and amateurs.
If it’s reduced for the pros, it’s reduced for the ams. We all play conforming clubs, and the ball should be no different. If they do or don’t change, what I care about is that the ball is the same one that the professionals play. Right now, they play the same ball I can buy off the shelf. If that ever changes, you’ll find that golf will suffer. It is the fact that pros play the SAME as me that makes what they do amazing. Otherwise, I don’t have anything to compare them, and that’s when you lose the connection so vital in the game.
Golfer 5
Mar 28, 2018 at 6:59 pm
After reading a lot of comments it is a variety of factors in my opinion which has increased distance:
-Player fitness
-Faster conditions
-New technology
One thing that I think has really increased distance across the board is club fitting, even for pros. That in itself is so much more detailed and technologically advanced now it is crazy! The intricacies pros can maximize on are only going to increase their production further. If you combine all those factors and add in the fact that any golfer has a chance to play the most perfectly tailored set of clubs, then you are obviously going to maximize performance.
In that respect, perhaps they should regulate the COR standard of woods further, and put parameters on fairway woods as well.
Charles Miller
Mar 29, 2018 at 9:25 am
That is the critical point. Just publishing distance stats takes no account of clubhead speed. A recent analysis of the top 20 on the US PGA tour showed a 4mph (which translates to c.10 yard) improvement over a decade, so better heads and shafts, stronger players and perhaps a more aggressive approach all play their part. Given that the USGA and R&A have not changed the maximum permitted ball velocity for ages, other factors come into play.
One of those is the performance of today’s golf balls. Optimising spin, and fitting balls to players, means they nowadays fly better and more predictably (regardless of distance) than they did.
Bob
Mar 28, 2018 at 6:32 pm
I don’t see what the problem is. The game is fun and exciting to play as an amateur and it is fun and exciting to watch the pro’s play. Roll back the ball and you roll back the fun and excitement and you end up rolling back the growth of the game. Sorry, I think the USGA and the R&A are a bunch of old fuddy duddies
Bob Jones
Mar 28, 2018 at 6:13 pm
The problem, if there really is one, exists only in professional golf only. I don’t think my 220-yard drives are hurting the game.
And where is Group 5? A set of recreational golfers, who represent only about 95% of people who play the game?
Moe Selchen
Mar 28, 2018 at 6:54 pm
Exactly
Billable Hours
Mar 28, 2018 at 5:42 pm
I don’t understand why anything needs to change
Vance
Mar 28, 2018 at 5:39 pm
No course is obsolete. They will always be free to have tournaments at any course. They are only afraid of scores being too low, but won’t admit it. The same people who readily admit that players are better these days seem unable to accept that scores might be lower as a result.
gvogelsang
Mar 28, 2018 at 5:22 pm
They should roll back COR and reduce the driver head size for “elite” players. They have already defined elite players when they changed the groove rule.
A COR of .76 and a driver head size of 200 cc would work just fine.
R Symes
Mar 28, 2018 at 5:00 pm
I believe the Ball is going further due to a combination of inputs as mentioned by multiple people, course conditions, Ball technology improvements, club technology improvements, physical fitness. I do not see it as an issue as all play in the same environment with the aim to get the ball in the hole with the least number of strokes.
Why not conduct some analysis with the top ten players mixing up combinations of current balls/clubs and balls/clubs from 20 to 30 years ago! How far does the modern club hit the old ball and vice versa?
Get on with the game and let everyone enjoy it.
Golf fan 55
Mar 28, 2018 at 4:21 pm
I am an advocate of keeping the golf ball the same, and agree with Dustin Johnson being that the object “is getting it into the hole”. Why I wouldn’t compare golf equipment to baseball equipment.
1. The only reason aluminum is used everywhere but professional baseball is because of availability of wood and cost for amateurs to use wood.
2. Tiger’s comparison about the “Pro” baseball and “Amateur” baseball is exactly what is wrong with pro baseball right now, and why homeruns have become such a joke and how hard pitchers are throwing. There is a very distinct difference in how tightly wound the “Pro” baseball is and the height of the seams compared to a “Minor League” ball compared to a college/high school ball, thus creating less resistance in the wind. It is simply a money-maker for the sport of baseball.
I agree with all those who have said that the conditions of the course should change!!! The pros on average seem to be getting 20-30yds of roll-out on drives due to how fast, tight and firm the fairways are. And if putting greens are way faster today than when Arnie, Nicklaus, etc used to play, aren’t the fairways as well??? How is this not flawing the numbers as well? All in all, I do not think overall carry distance is much different through the years.
Golf fan 55
Mar 28, 2018 at 4:24 pm
I do not think pros needs to play on fairways that run 9-11 on a stimpmeter, which is faster than some of the greens most of us play on. And of course, something that runs that fast will also be more firm allowing the ball to roll more, thus distance+
Golf fan 55
Mar 28, 2018 at 4:35 pm
In my opinion, Golf is the only sport where the playing conditions are significantly different considering professional play vs “ordinary” conditions amateur conditions. Perhaps the pristine conditions of the courses need to be addressed as the conditions are contributing to distance gain.
dat
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:35 pm
Make the courses play harder. Or force all pros to play steel shafts over 100g in their woods. That will slow things down and force a decrease in length.
Dave
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:24 pm
as soon as they make anything different than i use. i will lose substantial interest in golf. i spend about 10k annually on golf. no longer will their 340 drive seem amazing as it will only be 300yards…i will be hitting 300 yards and so will DJ. STUPID. not every course needs to be tourney playable. its only those courses that need length and they only need that length for tourneys. no one is even playing the tips at any courses i play. half the time the tips are grown over. Just narrow the damn fairways and you will see more irons off the tee, hybrids etc. problem solved…
Rick Wilmoth
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:18 pm
We know its about the money, not the integrity of the game. However, to fix it is pretty simple. Same reasoning behind the baseball rules. Amateurs can use whatever they want, but the pros have to hit a standardized ball and use wood woods.
AndyK
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:48 pm
For what it’s worth
Top 10 players in World and swing speed (Fleetwood sub for Koepka, no keopka 2018 data)
1 D Johnson 121.6
2 J Thomas 117.7
3 J Rahm 118.4
4 J Speith 113.1
5 J Rose 117.7
6 H Matsuy 118.4
7 R McIIroy 122.4
8 R Fowler 115.2
9 S Garcia 119.0
11 Fleetw 116.7
Peeza
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:42 pm
Since the MLB seems to be the most common comparison, maybe the Tour courses should be made tougher like the MLB parks are made larger. High school and college baseball fields don’t measure up to MLB parks. Make the fairways narrower and softer, while making the rough longer and greens smaller.
99% of amateur golfers don’t play the courses the pro’s play. Change the pro’s courses and leave the am’s alone. Equipment remains the same.
Chuck
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:07 pm
We have been doing that — tricking up golf courses — for many years, and it is long since time to stop it. It does not produce the best golf. And it isn’t just doing tricky stuff in setups. We are changing golf courses — lengthening them, stretching them, changing them — all to accommodate $3.50 golf balls.
Ridiculous.
GolfGolfGolf
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:39 pm
simple – no
farmer
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:38 pm
1980 is damn near 40 years ago. How much longer were tour players in 1980 than in 1940? Did that 1980 ball need to be rolled back?
Chuck
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:11 pm
You are helping to make the rollback argument.
The differences between clubs and balls in the 1940-1980 period was negligible, to the 1980-2020 differences.
In 1940, as in 1980, all clubs were steel-shafted. Drivers were persimmon. Clublengths and lofts were mostly the same. In the 1970’s, a great many tour players were still playing with collectible MacGregor Tommy Armour drivers that were made in the 1950’s and 60’s.
Peeza
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:32 pm
At what playing level does the USGA make it mandatory to use a reduced flight ball(if they go that route). What does this do for guys on the Web.com Tour or college players aspiring to be pro?
The USGA will have to define a threshold where players competing at a certain level will have time to adjust.
A college player deciding to go pro will be at a serious disadvantage when they tee it up on a mini tour or the Web.com tour with a reduced flight golf ball. They will need time to adjust to their new yardages and the new ball’s characteristics.
Someone else already mentioned this but what will this do for the amateur that qualifies for a pro tournament? They’ll have to use a ball they haven’t used before or have very little practice with.
Also, will there now have to be another division for amateur tournaments for amateurs that want to use pro compliant equipment?
Too many variables for the roll back case IMO.
CB
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:26 pm
A semi-scientific thought…
A pro who achieves a very efficient contact may lose 20% with a new-tech ball. BUT an amateur with less efficient ball striking would lose a much lower % of their distance – maybe only 5%, because so many other factory are at play.
I think a ball which bunches the driving distances could be good – only the best longest pros getting to 300yds whilst the club players who get about 230 or so at the moment will be less effected an come out of this with 220 or 225yd drives.
Peeza
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:17 pm
Just for the record…MLB baseball is not the only league that uses wooden bats. Some Division II College baseball conferences use wooden bats. Like, the NE10 in New England.
Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble. Well, not sorry really.
Scooter
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:10 pm
The problem is that the courses are set up to reward longer hitters. The setup for tournaments should allow for long drives up to a pre-determined threshold. At that point, distance gets penalized with hazards, bunkers, long rough, etc.
Face it. Golf courses can’t continue to be made longer and longer. PGA tournament setups are rewarding only the bomb and gouge players by making the courses play longer and eliminating the shotmakers on tour. Give the long hitters 3-5 holes that reward their distance and setup the rest to level the field off the tee.
Scott
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:18 pm
(Scooter) And then make the cups smaller for better putters. Why penalize a player that can do something you can’t?
AndyK
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:31 pm
Haha seriously this is so true. That’s the real reason PGA guys light up course When they hit 15 greens and have 24 putts they is just insane.
That is much harder then hit the ball 300. I know plenty of guys shoot in 90s that hit it 300+
Dino
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:07 pm
Rod … you missed the group of players that are content with the golf ball and the distance issue. I suspect that there are plenty of players that would like to see it stay right where it is, but for some reason they never get the “ink” or “airtime” to make their perspective more clearly known.
nyguy
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:06 pm
on and on and on and on…. my god.
HeineyLite
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:04 pm
Going to the baseball comparison, make all pros play blades and and smaller than 360cc drivers. Maybe limit clubs they can carry from 14 to 11? IMO
ChiliDip
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:06 pm
True tour issue clubs now!!! Not a bad thought. But nothing will change.
Bob Jones
Mar 28, 2018 at 6:17 pm
Have you been peeking in my bag?
kevin
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:53 am
the real issue is when course strategy is removed because of the distance guys can carry it. i’m all for thicker rough and tighter fairways, but if guys now have ability to carry the hazard, carry the fairway bunker, cut the dogleg, and essentially eliminate the risk and reward the course architect spent so much time creating, then the game changes for the worse.
combine this with the forgiveness in the large driver heads and lack of spin with the new balls, and the separation or gap between the best ball strikers is narrowed. I want a bigger emphasis on ball striking as the deciding factor on tournament success vs what the game is quickly becoming…which is workout, perfect your launch angle to hit driver as high and far as possible, and become a good putter. course management, iron play, working the ball is taking a back seat to the bomb and gouge type of play. not sure that’s great for the game.
Humble Golfer
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:25 am
I think that we can use MLB as an example. Professional baseball are the only ones that use wooden bats. If they do pull the trigger on this, they should only reduce ball distance on Tour golf balls not consumer based balls. Just like golf clubs; pros use equipment that amateurs can’t get. Should be the same for the golf ball.
Allan
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:02 pm
Its hard to use MLB as an example. you don’t see true amateurs playing in the MLB. There are many Professional golf Tournaments that allow Amateur players to compete (IE Masters, US Open, British Open…the list goes on). So if Pros and Amateur are using different equipment, How cab they level the field? Only way would be to force Amateur to use Limited golf ball which is not what they’ve practiced with or play with on a regular basis, so the are at an immediate disadvantage.
HoleIn2
Mar 28, 2018 at 12:10 pm
What happens to top amateurs, top juniors, club championships, state, and national tournaments? Where do you draw the line.
Den
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:17 pm
You can’t draw the line because a line can’t exist…. would they take away the u.s. am champs invitation to the masters or u.s. open because they used the “amateur” ball instead of the regulated tour ball to qualify? it just wouldn’t work with two sets of rules. you’d have to do it for everyone…. and a 20% rollback would mean a 300yd drive would only go 240. so no recreational golfer could legitimately hit the ball 200yds basically. sounds like a great idea
Man
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:15 am
They should stop cutting the fairways so thin and running them out so firm on the Tour courses and let them get shaggy and clumped with crab grass like they are on many real, muni courses across the US. And then let’s see how the Pros do on courses that aren’t so perfect where the ball doesn’t roll out 50 yards
BH
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:54 am
Yup. The ball is NOT the problem.
AndyK
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:50 pm
TV wants low scores on long drives. Notice how they always but these shot tracer driving distance hole on a hole that’s off a cliff down hurricane with lava rock fairway.
All the pros care is how far they carry the driver and only a few can carry it 300.
Sam
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:03 am
Of course longer hitters on tour like Tiger and DJ want the ball rolled back. When they(longer hitters) are now hitting short irons and wedges into greens where other guys are hitting mid irons, roll the ball back and now the big hitters are still hitting short irons to mid irons to the greens the short guys are forced to hit long irons. Who’s going to have the advantage of getting the ball to stop close to the pins on the these fast greens? Yup the big guys.
Rev G
Mar 28, 2018 at 10:59 am
I think there is another perspective that you’re missing. Player’s on the tours hit it further for many reasons (clubs, balls, fitness, nutrition, instruction, course conditions, etc.) The ball is the easiest and most logical thing to roll back to counteract this. Saying the ball is at fault for the increase is not the point, the point is that the ball (and only reasonable) thing you can roll back. Tennis has encountered the same issues – the ball was traveling too fast because of new racquet technology, fitness, nutrition instruction, etc.). So what have tournaments done to counteract, they’ve made the ball fluffier. The ball wasn’t at fault, but it is the easiest thing to use to counteract.
Matt
Mar 28, 2018 at 2:11 pm
If fitness is the reason for the length then put a 300cc Wood headed driver and Balata ball in their hands and see what happens. Their swing speeds will drop and distances will go down regardless of how fit they are.
George
Mar 29, 2018 at 10:12 am
Fitness is not the reason.
RS
Mar 30, 2018 at 1:59 am
Was just about to leave a comment, but your post nailed it. The ball is the only logical thing to roll back.
Bye
Mar 28, 2018 at 10:47 am
Are we allowed to discuss this again? Every roll back thread seems to get shut down.
Chuck
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:25 pm
I think that the reason that these threads get shut down is because of the bad behavior of a small number of commenters. (Invariably the anti-rollback crowd.)
I haven’t seen any heavy-handed censorship by GolfWRX, and I congratulate GolfWRX on allowing this debate.
Kudos.
btw: I very mistakenly hit the “Report Comment” instead of the “Reply” button a moment ago. There is nothing wrong with Bye’s comment, and I apologize for the missed click.
Cory
Mar 28, 2018 at 10:46 am
Watch Rick Shiels’ video about him testing the titleist pro 90 vs the new pro v1. It’s a very small sample size but still effective for getting an idea of how far the ball has come. Teaser: there’s not much difference. The biggest factor in distance these days is the new era of pro golfers who train and lift weights and golf club technology IMO. Like the poster above me said, make the course conditions more punishable on fairways missed.
Mike
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:30 am
+1
Peeza
Mar 28, 2018 at 1:38 pm
Agree 100%
Matt
Mar 28, 2018 at 2:08 pm
Not sure how you get “There’s not much difference.” His Driver test showed 12 yards difference and his 7i showed 6 yards. That is what this discussion is all about.
James
Mar 28, 2018 at 4:44 pm
Which is one whole club. Not the doom and gloom that the powers-that-be are crying over
Jack
Mar 28, 2018 at 10:39 am
grow the rough up narrow and soften the fairways. problem solved
Phil
Mar 28, 2018 at 11:54 am
Agree with Jack & Man. Soften the fairways & grow the rough. Evaluate after this ….
Chuck
Mar 28, 2018 at 3:34 pm
“Grow the rough up; narrow and soften the fairways… PROBLEMS CREATED.”
First problem; effectively narrowing golf courses eliminates the architect’s original design intentions. Angles are shut down; natural landing area challenges are minimized or overlooked. You have eliminated much strategy, and turned course management into little more than a golf simulator, banging shots down a narrow one-dimensional chute.
Second problem; “softening” golf courses is bad in multiple ways. You first and foremost eliminate the “ground game” and the need to understand and manage the way that balls run out. It is also bad if a “softened” course cannot handle extra moisture in the form of rain during a tournament week.
Third problem; punitive rough is a terrible way to handle distance. The right way to handle extra distance is to address the distance; not trick the player into holding back because he fears the rough on a particular hole, but still has the reserve distance to bomb it over fairway bunkers on a different hole
I will never stop being amazed at the mentality that would regard it as better and more logical to make changes to a priceless, irreplaceable, historic golf course, simply to avoid making changes to something as forgettable as a golf ball.
Chris
Mar 29, 2018 at 11:24 pm
They aren’t talking about changing the golf course, but rather about keeping it as it is the rest of the year when there is no tournament and NOT change it with starved fairways running at 10 on the stimp. During tournament week only.