Opinion & Analysis
Match of the Ages: 30 Years of Tech Goes Head to Head
I vividly remember being a teenager watching the 1987 U.S. Open at the Olympic Club on television with my dad. The ever-stoic Scott Simpson made a slew of late birdies to dash the title hopes of my boyhood heroes Tom Watson and Seve Ballesteros. Simpson hit a feathery 9-iron from 125 yards into the 16th and I said to my dad, “I can do that.” My dad just laughed and shook his head.
“Son, this is not the Rich Acres Par-3,” he said. “This is the U.S. Open.” I went right back at him. “I know,” I said, “but I can do that. My 9 iron goes 125 yards.”
Fast forward to the 2017 U.S. Open at Erin Hills. Rickie Fowler is hitting 5-iron into a 250 yard hole. Brooks Koepka melts a 325-yard 3-wood. My 6-year-old daughter is watching with me as Koepka overpowers Erin Hills and she asks, “Daddy, can you do that?” I answered with no delay, “No chance.” But what struck me as odd was that I was starting to grow numb to the video game-like control and power we see week in, week out on the PGA Tour. Four-hundred-yard drives just happen now and that’s how it is. Sounds like fun, but I’m not sure it’s good thing.
Somewhere between my father’s 1987 dismissal of the crucible that was the Rich Acres Par-3 and Koepka’s brutish dismantling of Erin Hills, golf has become a wildly different game. But is it a better game? Is it more entertaining to watch? Does the technology that facilitates the game for the masses belittle the game’s rich history? Most importantly, is today’s game more fun to play? I set off on a crusade to find out.
Short of buying a silver DeLorean and traveling back in time to 1987, my best bet was to try and piece together the clubs I played as a teenager and pit them against my current set to see how they would match up. A Match of The Ages if you will; Teenage Me vs. Middle-Aged Me. The artistry of the late 20th century versus the power of the early 21st century. This was going to be fun.
Building My Teenage Arsenal
East Bloomington, Minnesota in 1988 was The Land of 10,000 Blades. My buddy Aaron played his dad’s old X-31s. The Hogan brothers (sons of PGA legend Terry Hogan) worshiped all things Apex. I played a set of Wilson Staff Fluid Feel irons handed down from my father. Persimmons were still King and my all-time favorites were Cleveland Classics that I bought off a guy at my barber shop for an incredibly low price. How he got them wasn’t important. What was important was that I knew at a young and tender age that there are certain questions you just don’t ask folks who are selling goods out of their trunks at barber shops.
I went online and was able to find a similar set of Fluid Feel 2-SW with Dynamic Gold shafts, a Cleveland persimmon driver and 4 wood, and a putter that was close to an old TPA that I occasionally had in play. I didn’t think playing a 30-year-old balata made much sense, so I splurged and bought some Titleist Professionals for $10 (I know the Professionals weren’t released until the mid-nineties, but I figured they’d have a puncher’s chance of still being round). All in all it cost me about $150 to recreate my teenage arsenal. Not quite barber shop prices, but a bargain nonetheless.
Middle-Aged Me: An Embarrassment of Riches
I buy way too many clubs. Like, it’s-a-problem-in-my-marriage amount of clubs. I’ve had to pay off the doorman at my building to stash any deliveries so my wife doesn’t find them and throw them away. Currently my storage unit has more clubs than some pro shops, but here’s what’s in my bag as of right now. The Epic driver is incredible and the RBZ 14.5 and Tour Exotic 19 hybrid have kept their place in the lineup for months — not an easy task considering a few snap hooks with a utility club normally means an early retirement. This is my second set of AP2s (DGS300) and I’ve been a fan of the Callaway wedges since I got them. The 2-Ball putter might strike you as odd, but I side-saddle putted not that long ago, so the term odd is lost on me. I play the Vice Pro Plus and it’s a terrific ball. Middle-Aged Me is well-armed and ready for battle.
The Tale of the Tape
I took 16 shots with each driver and 8-iron using Bridgestone E6 balls. I took out the best and worst 4. Averages in gray.
The 8-iron data had me puzzled. Sure enough, the modern 8-iron was bent fairly strong. Thanks to Brendan Kelly and Tim Ellis at Roger Dunn’s Golf Shop in Seal Beach, California. Here are the specs for all the irons in play.
The Match Begins
Rancho Park Golf Course is the epicenter of golf on the Westside of Los Angeles. Its 6,630-yard, par-71 layout from the tips makes it the perfect host for the Match of The Ages. The format is 18 holes of Match Play. Middle-Aged Me has honors and so my match begins.
The opening hole is a 381-yard par-4 and my first drive with the Big Bertha Epic might as well be a commercial for whatever Jail Break Technology is. I don’t come close to hitting it squarely, but the ball somehow stays in the air for a lifetime and carries the fairway bunker some 240 yards away with ease. I don’t exactly hit the Cleveland persimmon on the screws, either. Instead, I smack an embarrassing line drive that rolls out some 220 yards into the middle of the fairway. I make a pair of sloppy bogeys and move on.
The second hole is a 467-yard tree-lined beast of par-4. I hook the Epic left, which is my stock miss. Teenage Me, sensing an opening, bombs a high fade. I seldom hit fades, so this is shot is completely slightly miraculous. I pose on the finish longer than usual to savor the moment. Teenage Me has 215 yards left and a useful 3-iron finds the green. An easy two-putt gives Teenage Me a 1-Up lead.
For the rest of the front nine, the Epic catches fire. Middle-Aged Me has wedge into all of the remaining par 4s and is greenside on the sole par-5 in two with ease. The Epic is an undeniable, inanimate Death Star of a driver. It is completely robotic in every sense and lethal when programmed properly. Middle-Aged Me rides the Epic to a 3-Up lead through nine holes.
In a cinematic sense, if the Epic is the Death Star then the persimmon is Morgan Freeman’s Sergeant Major John Rawlins from Glory: old, dark, proud, regal, and loyal no matter the odds. Unfortunately, Teenage Me is facing long odds because the persimmon is consistently 50 yards behind the Epic. My swing with the persimmon seems to be a little longer, a little more deliberate, and even when I hit it one the screws it’s just not even close.
As for the irons, the Wilson Staffs feel great, but they seem to drift left (hook) a little more than I’m used to. With exception to the 2 and 3 irons (which require Buddhist Monk-like focus), the Staffs seem just as playable as my AP2s. I would guess that any purists out there who still game a clean MB blade like the Callaway Apex, Titleist 718 or Cobra Kings would find little difference. As for workability, just about every single shot I’ve hit since age 12 has gone right-to-left, so you want to read about workability you’ve got the wrong guy.
Checking in on the golf ball battle through nine holes, the Titleist Professional is holding its own. Lots of check and surprisingly firm and durable considering the vintage (a skulled 3-iron on the 8th imparted more damage to my fragile psyche than the actual golf ball). Should the USGA ever move towards bifurcation, the Titleist Professional would be a great standard for ball construction. On the other side of the cart, if you know how the Pro V1x plays then you know how the Vice Pro Plus plays, which is to say incredibly well. When played side-by-side, the difference between the modern ball and the older ball is staggering.
Example: No. 4, par-3, 200 yards. Teenage Me rips 4-iron (24 degree loft) and I’m on the front edge. Middle-Aged Me hits a solid but not spectacular 5-iron (26 degrees) that flies to the middle of the green. I would confidently say there’s a one club difference in distance on irons (matching lofts, of course.)
Back to the Match of The Ages: the back nine starts off with some real fireworks with blood exchanged on Nos. 10, 11, 12 and two gritty up-and-down par saves on No. 13. Middle-Aged Me is 4 Up and has the honor on the intimidating 14th that plays out of a shoot. A compact swing of the Epic produces a low draw/hook off the tee that ends up in the fairway about 160 yards out. Teenage Me (focusing too much on the canopy of trees surround the tee box) hits the persimmon off the toe and the result is a Clayton Kershaw sinker that goes about 60 feet 6 inches and dives into the junk. Needing a miracle, I hack the ball back into play but Teenage Me has met his Waterloo. Middle-Aged Me makes par and wins 5 & 4.
Middle-Aged Me may have won the match 5 & 4, but Teenage Me definitely won the fun 10 & 8. A big part of that fun was getting reacquainted with a game I hadn’t played in a while. A game that was less about distance and more about shapes and trajectories. A game light on predictability and loaded with variety where a good drive didn’t mean wedges into every green. I saw the golf course as the architect had intended it to be seen, which let me appreciate more of its features. I’m not denying the element of novelty, but playing with my old teenage clubs — despite shooting 86 — was nothing short of inspiring. And to emphatically answer my original question; yes, it was a lot more fun.
Trust me on this: go out and get a nice persimmon. If for no other reason than if you practice with it you’ll improve as a ball striker, just buy one. Don’t worry about how old it might be. Jack Nicklaus won every single one of his majors — including the ’86 Masters — with a 3-wood from 1958, so I think it’s safe to say the material holds up well. Yes, you’ll find the older clubs are heavier and they’re a little harder to hit, but they are far more rewarding… and they’ll make hitting your modern clubs seem like child’s play.
As you can tell, the old clubs are growing on me. Maybe it’s a nostalgic whim, or maybe there’s something more profound at play. It could just be that people out there want something with a little more heart and soul. I think that’s why we buy hand-stitched wallets and drive old roadsters; we want to feel the humanity and the craftsmanship that goes into someone actually making things. So if you’re ever around a driving range in L.A. and you see a guy with an old Wood Brothers driver working on his gentleman’s fade, stop by and say hello. I’ll give you a few cracks at the driver and you can tell me what you feel.
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19th Hole
Vincenzi’s 2024 Valspar Championship betting preview: Elite ballstrikers to thrive at Copperhead
The PGA TOUR will stay in Florida this week for the 2024 Valspar Championship.
The Copperhead Course at Innisbrook Resort is a par 71 measuring 7,340 yards and features Bermudagrass greens overseeded with POA. Infamous for its difficulty, the track will be a tough test for golfers as trouble lurks all over the place. Holes 16, 17 and 18 — also known as the “Snake Pit” — make up one of the toughest three-hole stretches in golf and should lead to a captivating finish on Sunday.
The field is comprised of 156 golfers teeing it up. The field this week is solid and is a major improvement over last year’s field that felt the impact of players skipping due to a handful of “signature events” in a short span of time.
Past Winners at Valspar Championship
- 2023: Taylor Moore (-10)
- 2022: Sam Burns (-17)
- 2021: Sam Burns (-17)
- 2019: Paul Casey (-8)
- 2018: Paul Casey (-10)
- 2017: Adam Hadwin (-14)
- 2016: Charl Schwartzel (-7)
- 2015: Jordan Spieth (-10)
In this article and going forward, I’ll be using the Rabbit Hole by Betsperts Golf data engine to develop my custom model. If you want to build your own model or check out all of the detailed stats, you can sign up using promo code: MATTVIN for 25% off any subscription package (yearly is best value).
Key Stats For Copperhead
1. Strokes Gained: Approach
Strokes Gained: Approach grades out as the most important statistic once again this week. Copperhead really can’t be overpowered and is a second-shot golf course.
Total SG: Approach Over Past 24 Rounds (per round)
- Tony Finau (+.90)
- Nick Taylor (+.81)
- Justin Thomas (+.77)
- Greyson Sigg (+.69)
- Christiaan Bezuidenhout (+.67)
2. Good Drive %
The long hitters can be a bit limited here due to the tree-lined fairways and penal rough. Playing from the fairways will be important, but laying back too far will cause some difficult approaches with firm greens that may not hold shots from long irons.
Golfers who have a good balance of distance and accuracy have the best chance this week.
Good Drive % Over Past 24 Rounds
- Brice Garnett (+91.3%)
- Zach Johnson (+91.1%)
- Sam Ryder (+90.5%)
- Ryan Moore (+90.4%)
- Aaron Rai (+89.7%)
3. Strokes Gained: Ball Striking
Adding ball-striking puts even more of a premium on tee-to-green prowess in the statistical model this week. Golfers who rank highly in ball-striking are in total control of the golf ball which is exceedingly important at Copperhead.
SG: Ball Striking Over Past 24 Rounds:
- Xander Schauffele (+1.32)
- Keith Mitchell (+1.29)
- Tony Finau (+1.24)
- Cameron Young (+1.17)
- Doug Ghim (+.95)
4. Bogey Avoidance
With the conditions likely to be difficult, avoiding bogeys will be crucial this week. In a challenging event like the Valspar, oftentimes the golfer who is best at avoiding mistakes ends up on top.
Gritty golfers who can grind out difficult pars have a much better chance in an event like this than a low-scoring birdie-fest.
Bogey Avoidance Over Past 24 Rounds
- Brice Garnett (+9.0)
- Xander Schauffele (+9.3)
- Austin Cook (+9.7)
- Chesson Hadley (+10.0)
- Greyson Sigg (+10.2)
5. Strokes Gained: Total in Difficult Conditions
Conditions will be tough this week at Copperhead. I am looking for golfers who can rise to the occasion if the course plays as difficult as it has in the past.
Strokes Gained: Total in Difficult Conditions Over Past 24 rounds
- Xander Schauffele (+1,71)
- Min Woo Lee (+1.39)
- Cameron Young (+1.27)
- Jordan Spieth (+1.08)
- Justin Suh (+.94)
6. Course History
That statistic will tell us which players have played well at Copperhead in the past.
Course History Over Past 24 rounds
- Patrick Cantlay (+3.75)
- Sam Burns (+2.49)
- Davis Riley (+2.33)
- Matt NeSmith (+2.22)
- Jordan Spieth (+2.04)
The Valspar Championship Model Rankings
Below, I’ve compiled overall model rankings using a combination of the five key statistical categories previously discussed — SG: Approach (27%), Good Drive % (15%), SG: BS (20%), Bogeys Avoided (13%), Course History (13%) Strokes Gained: Total in Difficult Conditions (12%).
- Xander Schauffele
- Doug Ghim
- Victor Perez
- Greyson Sigg
- Ryan Moore
- Tony Finau
- Justin Thomas
- Sam Ryder
- Sam Burns
- Lucas Glover
2024 Valspar Championship Picks
Justin Thomas +1400 (DraftKings)
Justin Thomas will be disappointed with his finish at last week’s PLAYERS Championship, as the past champion missed the cut despite being in some decent form heading into the event. Despite the missed cut, JT hit the ball really well. In his two rounds, the two-time major champion led the field in Strokes Gained: Approach per round.
Thomas has been up and down this season. He’s missed the cut in two “signature events” but also has finishes of T12 at the Arnold Palmer Invitational, T12 at the Waste Management Phoenix Open, T6 at the Pebble Beach AT&T Pro-Am and T3 at the American Express. In his past 24 rounds, he ranks 3rd in the field in Strokes Gained: Approach and 6th in Strokes Gained: Ball Striking in the field.
Thomas loves Copperhead. In his last three tries at the course, he’s finished T13, T3 and T10. Thomas would have loved to get a win at a big event early in the season, but avoidable mistakes and a balky putter have cost him dearly. I believe a trip to a course he loves in a field he should be able to capitalize on is the right recipe for JT to right the ship.
Christiaan Bezuidenhout +6000 (FanDuel)
Christiaan Bezuidenhout is playing spectacular golf in the 2024 season. He finished 2nd at the American Express, T20 at Pebble Beach and T24 at the Genesis Invitational before finishing T13 at last week’s PLAYERS Championship.
In his past 24 rounds, the South African ranks 3rd in the field in Strokes Gained: Approach and 26th in Strokes Gained: Ball Striking. Bezuidenhout managed to work his way around TPC Sawgrass last week with minimal damage. He only made five bogeys in the entire week, which is a great sign heading into a difficult Copperhead this week.
Bezuidenhout is winless in his PGA Tour career, but certainly has the talent to win on Tour. His recent iron play tells me that this week could be a breakthrough for the 35-year-old who has eyes on the President’s Cup.
Doug Ghim +8000 (FanDuel)
Doug Ghim has finished in the top-16 of his past five starts. Most recently, Ghim finished T16 at The PLAYERS Championship in a loaded field.
In his past 24 rounds, Ghim ranks 8th in Strokes Gained: Approach and 5th in Strokes Gained: Ball Striking. In terms of his fit for Copperhead, the 27-year-old ranks 12th in Bogey Avoidance and 7th in Strokes Gained: Total in Difficult Conditions, making him a great fit for the course.
Ghim has yet to win on Tour, but at one point he was the top ranked Amateur golfer in the world and played in the 2017 Arnold Palmer Cup and 2017 Walker Cup. He then won the Ben Hogan award for the best male college golfer in 2018. He certainly has the talent, and there are signals aplenty that his talent in ready to take him to the winner’s circle on the PGA Tour.
Sepp Straka +8000 (BetRivers)
Sepp Straka is a player who’s shown he has the type of game that can translate to a difficult Florida golf course. The former Presidents Cup participant won the 2022 Honda Classic in tough conditions and should thrive with a similar test at Copperhead.
It’s been a slow 2024 for Straka, but his performance last week at the PLAYERS Championship surely provides some optimism. He gained 5.4 strokes on approach as well as 1.88 strokes off the tee. The tee-to-green game Straka showed on a course with plenty of danger demonstrates that he can stay in control of his golf ball this week.
It’s possible that the strong performance last week was an outlier, but I’m willing to bet on a proven winner in a weaker field at a great number.
Victor Perez +12000 (FanDuel)
Victor Perez is no stranger to success in professional golf. The Frenchman has three DP World Tour wins including a Rolex Series event. He won the 2019 Alfred Dunhill Links Championship, as well as the 2023 Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship, which are some big events.
Perez earned his PGA Tour card this season and enters the week playing some fantastic golf. He finished in a tie for 16th in Florida at the Cognizant Classic and then tied for third in his most recent start at the Puerto Rico Open.
In his past 24 rounds in the field, Perez ranks 11th in Strokes Gained: Approach, 1oth in Strokes Gained: Ball Striking, 6th in Good Drive % and 15th in Bogey Avoidance.
Perez comes in as a perfect fit for Copperhead and offers serious value at triple-digit odds.
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Opinion & Analysis
Myrtle Beach, Explored: February in South Carolina
As I gain in experience and age, and familiarity breeds neither contempt nor disdain, I understand why people return to a place. A destination like Myrtle Beach offers a sizable supply and diversity of restaurants, entertainment venues, and shops that are predicated on the tenets of the service industry. Greet your customers with a smile and a kind word, and they will find comfort and assurance. Provide them with a memorable experience and they will suggest your place of business to others.
My first tour of Myrtle Beach took place in the mid-1980s, and consisted of one course: Gator Hole. I don’t remember much from that day, and since Gator Hole closed a decade later, I cannot revisit it to recollect what I’d lost. Since then, I’ve come to the Grand Strand a few times, and been fortunate to never place a course more than once. I’ve seen the Strantz courses to the south and dipped my toe in the North Carolina courses of Calabash. I’ve been to many in the middle, including Dunes, Pine Lakes, Grande Dunes among them.
2024 brought a quartet of new courses, including two at the Barefoot Resort. I’d heard about the North Myrtle Beach four-pack of courses that highlight the Barefoot property, including layouts from Pete Dye, Tom Fazio, Davis Love III, and Greg Norman. I had the opportunity to play and shoot the Dye and Fazio tracks, which means that I’ll have to return to see the other two. Sandwiched between them were the TPC-Myrtle Beach course, also from Tom Fazio, and the Pawley’s Plantation trace, by the hand of Jack Nicklaus. I anticipated a bit of the heroic, and bit of the strategic, and plenty of eye candy. None of those architects would ever be considered a minimalist, so there would be plenty of in-play and out-of-play bunkers and mounds to tantalize the senses.
My nephew arrived a few days early, to screen a few more courses. As a result, you the reader will have an extra quarter of mini-reviews, bringing the total of courses in this piece to eight. It was inconceivable that CJR would play four courses that I had never played nor photographed, but that was the case. His words appear at the end of this piece. We hope that you enjoy the tour.
Main Feature: Two Barefoots, a TPC, and Pawley’s Plantation
What Paul “Pete” Dye brought back from his trips to the United Kingdom, hearkened back to what C.B. MacDonal did, some 65 years prior. There is a way of finding bunkers and fairways, and even green sites, that does not require major industrial work. The Dye course at Barefoot Resorts takes you on a journey over the rumpled terrain of distant places. If there’s one element missing, it’s the creased and turbulent fairways, so often found in England and Ireland. The one tenet of playing a Dye course, is to always aim away from temptation, from where your eyes draw you. Find the safe side of the target, and you’ll probably find your ball. It then stands that you will have a shot for your next attempt. Cut the corner, and you might have need to reload. The Barefoot course begins gently, in terms of distance, but challenges with visual deception. After two brief 4s and a 3, the real work begins. The course is exposed enough, to allow the coastal winds to dance along the fairways. Be ready to keep the ball low and take an extra club or two.
If memory serves, TPCMB is my first trek around a TPC-branded course. It had all the trappings of a tour course, from the welcome, through the clubhouse, to the practice facilities and, of course, the course. TPC-Myrtle Beach is a Tom Fazio design, and if you never visit Augusta National, you’ll now have an idea of what it is like. You play Augusta’s 16th hole twice at TPCMB, and you enjoy it both times. Fazio really likes the pond-left, green-angle-around par three hole, and his two iterations of it are memorable.
You’ll also see those Augusta bunkers, the ones with the manicured edges that drop into a modestly-circular form. What distinguishes these sand pits is the manner in which they rise from the surrounding ground. They are unique in that they don’t resemble the geometric bunkering of a Seth Raynor, nor the organic pits found in origin courses. They are built, make no mistake, and recovery from them is manageable for all levels of bunker wizardry.
If you have the opportunity to play the two Tom Fazio courses back to back, you’ll notice a marked difference in styling. Let me digress for a moment, then circle back with an explanation. It was written that the NLE World Woods course designed by Fazio, Pine Barrens, was an homage to Pine Valley, the legendary, New Jersey club where Fazio is both a member and the architect on retainer. The Pine Barrens course was plowed under in 2022, so the homage no longer exists. At least, I didn’t think that it existed, until I played his Barefoot Resort course in North Myrtle Beach.
Pine Valley might be described as an aesthetic of scrub and sand. There are mighty, forced carries to travers, along with sempiternal, sandy lairs to avoid. Barefoot Fazio is quite similar. If you’re not faced with a forced carry, you’ll certainly contend with a fairway border or greenside necklace of sand. When you reach the 13th tee, you’ll face a drive into a fairway, and you might see a distant green, with a notable absence: flagstick. The 13th is the icing on the homage cake, a callout of the 8th hole at Pine Valley. Numero Ocho at the OG has two greens, side by side, and they change the manner in which the hole plays (so they say.) At Barefoot Fazio, the right-side green is a traditional approach, with an unimpeded run of fairway to putting surface. The left-side green (the one that I was fortunate to play) demands a pitch shot over a wasteland. It’s a fitting tribute for the rest of us to play.
Be certain to parrot the starter, Leon’s, advice, and play up a deck of tees. Barefoot Fazio offers five par-three holes, so the fours and fives play that much longer. Remember, too, that you are on vacation. Why not treat yourself to some birdie looks?
The Jack Nicklaus course at Pawley’s Plantation emerged from a period of hibernation in 2024. The greens were torn up and their original contours were restored. Work was overseen by Troy Vincent, a member of the Nicklaus Architecture team. In addition, the putting corridors were reseeded with a hardier, dwarf bermuda that has experienced great success, all along the Grand Strand that is Myrtle Beach.
My visit allowed me to see the inward half first, and I understand why the resort wishes to conclude your day on those holes. The front nine of Pawley’s Plantation works its way through familiar, low country trees and wetlands. The back nine begins in similar fashion, then makes its way east, toward the marsh that separates mainland from Pawley’s Island. Recalling the powerful sun of that Wednesday morning, any round beginning on the second nine would face collateral damage from the warming star. Much better to hit holes 11 to close when the sun is higher in the sky.
The marshland holes (12 through 17) are spectacular in their raw, unprotected nature. The winds off the Atlantic are unrelenting and unforgiving, and the twin, par-three holes will remain in your memory banks for time’s march. In typical Golden Bear fashion, a majority of his putting targets are smallish in nature, reflecting his appreciation for accurate approach shots. Be sure to find the forgiving side of each green, and err to that portion. You’ll be grateful.
Bonus Coverage: Myrtlewood, Beechwood, Arrowhead, and King’s North
Arrowhead (Raymond Floyd and Tom Jackson)
A course built in the middle of a community, water threatens on most every hole. The Cypress 9 provides a few holes forcing a carried drive then challenge you with water surrounding the green. On Waterway, a drivable 2nd hole will tempt most, so make sure the group ahead has cleared the green.
Myrtlewood (Edmund Alt and Arthur Hills) and Beechwood (Gene Hamm)
A middle of the winter New Englander’s paradise. Wide open fairways, zero blind shots and light rough allow for shaking off the rust and plenty of forgiveness. A plethora of dog legs cause one to be cautious with every tee shot. Won’t break the bank nor the scorecard.
King’s North @ Myrtle Beach National (Arnold Palmer)
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19th Hole
Vincenzi’s 2024 Players Championship betting preview: Pete Dye specialists ready to pass tough TPC Sawgrass test
The PGA Tour heads to TPC Sawgrass to play in one of the most prestigious and important events of the season: THE PLAYERS Championship. Often referred to as the fifth major, the importance of a PLAYERS victory to the legacy of a golfer can’t be overlooked.
TPC Sawgrass is a par-72 measuring 7,245 yards and featuring Bermudagrass greens. Golfers must be patient in attacking this Pete Dye course.
With trouble lurking at every turn, the strokes can add up quickly. With a par-5 16th that is a true risk-reward hole and the famous par-3 17th island green, the only safe bet at TPC Sawgrass is a bet on an exciting finish.
THE PLAYERS Championship field is often referred to as the strongest field of the year — and with good reason. There are 144 in the field, including 43 of the world’s top 50 players in the OWGR. Tiger Woods will not be playing in the event.
THE PLAYERS is an exceptionally volatile event that has never seen a back-to-back winner.
Past Winners at TPC Sawgrass
- 2023: Scottie Scheffler (-17)
- 2022: Cameron Smith (-13)
- 2021: Justin Thomas (-14)
- 2019: Rory McIlroy (-16)
- 2018: Webb Simpson (-18)
- 2017: Si-Woo Kim (-10)
- 2016: Jason Day (-15)
- 2015: Rickie Fowler (-12)In this article and going forward, I’ll be using the Rabbit Hole by Betsperts Golf data engine to develop my custom model. If you want to build your own model or check out all of the detailed stats, you can sign up using promo code: MATTVIN for 25% off any subscription package (yearly is best value).
5 Key Stats for TPC Sawgrass
Let’s take a look at five metrics key for TPC Sawgrass to determine which golfers boast top marks in each category over their last 24 rounds.
1. Strokes Gained: Approach
Strokes Gained: Approach has historically been far and away the most important and predictive stat at THE PLAYERS Championship. With water everywhere, golfers can’t afford to be wild with their iron shots. Not only is it essential to avoid the water, but it will also be as important to go after pins and make birdies because scores can get relatively low.
Total SG: Approach Over Past 24 Rounds
- Tom Hoge (+1.37)
- Scottie Scheffler (+1.20)
- Tony Finau (+0.99)
- Jake Knapp (+0.83)
- Shane Lowry (+0.80)
2. Total Driving
This statistic is perfect for TPC Sawgrass. Historically, driving distance hasn’t been a major factor, but since the date switch to March, it’s a bit more significant. During this time of year, the ball won’t carry quite as far, and the runout is also shorter.
Driving accuracy is also crucial due to all of the trouble golfers can get into off of the tee. Therefore, players who are gaining on the field with Total Driving will put themselves in an ideal spot this week.
Total Driving Over Past 24 Rounds
- Rory McIlroy (22)
- Akshay Bhatia (25)
- Keith Mitchell (25)
- Adam Hadwin (34)
- Sam Burns (+39)
3. Strokes Gained: Total at Pete Dye Designs
TPC Sawgrass may be Pete Dye’s most famous design, and for good reason. The course features Dye’s typical shaved runoff areas and tricky green complexes. Pete Dye specialists love TPC Sawgrass and should have a major advantage this week.
SG: Total (Pete Dye) per round over past 36 rounds:
- Patrick Cantlay (+2.02)
- Scottie Scheffler (+1.90)
- Min Woo Lee (+1.77)
- Sungjae Im (+1.72)
- Brian Harman (+1.62)
4. Strokes Gained: Ball Striking
Prototypical ball-strikers have dominated TPC Sawgrass. With past winners like Sergio Garcia, Henrik Stenson, Webb Simpson, Rory McIlroy and Justin Thomas, it’s evident that golfers must be striking it pure to contend at THE PLAYERS.
SG: Ball Striking Over Past 24 Rounds
- Scottie Scheffler (+2.02)
- Tony Finau (+1.51)
- Tom Hoge (+1.48)
- Keith Mitchell (+1.38)
- Will Zalatoris (+1.18)
5. Par 5 Average
Par-5 average is extremely important at TPC Sawgrass. With all four of the Par-5s under 575 yards, and three of them under 540 yards, a good amount of the scoring needs to come from these holes collectively.
Par 5 Average Over Past 24 Rounds
- Scottie Schefler (+4.31)
- Erik Van Rooyen (+4.35)
- Doug Ghim (+4.34)
- Wyndham Clark (+4.34)
- Matt Fitzpatrick (+4.31)
6. Strokes Gained: Florida
We’ve used this statistic over the past few weeks, and I’d like to incorporate some players who do well in Florida into this week’s model as well.
Strokes Gained: Florida over past 30 rounds:
- Scottie Schefler (+2.43)
- Erik Van Rooyen (+1.78)
- Doug Ghim (+1.78)
- Wyndham Clark (+1.73)
- Matt Fitzpatrick (+1.69)
7. Strokes Gained: Total on Courses with High Water Danger
With water everywhere at TPC Sawgrass, the blow-up potential is high. It can’t hurt to factor in some players who’ve avoided the “eject” button most often in the past.
Strokes Gained: Total on Courses with High Water Danger over past 30 rounds:
- Scottie Schefler (+2.08)
- Rory McIlroy (+1.82)
- Tony Finau (+1.62)
- Patrick Cantlay (+1.51)
- Will Zalatoris (+1.49)
THE PLAYERS Championship Model Rankings
Below, I’ve compiled overall model rankings using a combination of the five key statistical categories previously discussed — SG: Approach (25%), Total Driving (20%), SG: Total Pete Dye (14%), SG: Ball-striking (15%) SG: Par 5 (8%), SG: Florida (10%) and SG: High Water (8%).
- Scottie Scheffler
- Shane Lowry
- Tony Finau
- Corey Conners
- Keith Mitchell
- Justin Thomas
- Will Zalatoris
- Xander Schauffele
- Cameron Young
- Doug Ghim
- Sam Burns
- Chris Kirk
- Collin Morikawa
- Si Woo Kim
- Wyndham Clark
2024 THE PLAYERS Championship Picks
(All odds at the time of writing)
Patrick Cantlay +2500 (DraftKings):
Patrick Cantlay is winless since the 2022 BMW Championship but is undoubtedly one of the most talented players on the PGA Tour. Since the win at Wilmington Country Club, the 31-year-old has twelve top-10 finishes on Tour and is starting to round into form for the 2024 season.
Cantlay has done well in the most recent “signature” events this season, finishing 4th at Riviera for the Genesis Invitational and 12th at Bay Hill for the Arnold Palmer Invitational. The former Tour Championship winner resides in Jupiter, Florida and has played some good golf in the state, including finishing in a tie for 4th at the 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational. His history at TPC Sawgrass has been up and down, but his best career start at The PLAYERS came last year when he finished in a tie for 19th.
Cantlay absolutely loves Pete Dye designed courses and ranks 1st in the field in Strokes Gained: Total on Dye tracks in his past 36 rounds. In recent years, he’s been excellent at both the RBC Heritage and the Travelers Championship. TPC Sawgrass is a place where players will have to be dialed in with their irons and distance off the tee won’t be quite as important. In his past 24, rounds, Cantlay ranks in the field in Strokes Gained: Approach.
Despite being winless in recent years, I still believe Cantlay is capable of winning big tournaments. As one of the only United States players to bring their best game to Marco Simone for the Ryder Cup, I have conviction that the former top amateur in the world can deliver when stakes are high.
Will Zalatoris +3000 (FanDuel):
In order to win at TPC Sawgrass, players will need to be in total control of their golf ball. At the moment, Will Zalatoris is hitting it as well as almost anyone and finally has the putter cooperating with his new switch to the broomstick style.
Zalatoris is coming off back-to-back starts where he absolutely striped the ball. He finished 2nd at the Genesis Invitational and 4th at the Arnold Palmer Invitational where his statistics were eye opening. For the week at Bay Hill, Zal gained 5.0 strokes on approach and 5.44 strokes off the tee.
Throughout the early part of his career, Zalatoris has established himself by playing his best golf in the strongest fields with the most difficult conditions. A tough test will allow him to separate himself this week and breakthrough for a PLAYERS Championship victory.
Shane Lowry +4000 (DraftKings):
History has shown us that players need to be in good form to win the PLAYERS Championship and it’s hard to find anyone not named Scottie Scheffler who’s in better form that Shane Lowry at the moment. He finished T4 at the Cognizant Classic followed by a solo third place finish at the Arnold Palmer Invitational.
The fact that the Irishman contended at Bay Hill is a great sign considering he’s really struggled there throughout his career. He will now head to a different style of course in Florida where he’s had a good deal of success. He finished 8th at TPC Sawgrass in 2021 and 13th in 2022.
Lowry ranks 6th in the field in approach in his past 24 rounds, 7th in Strokes Gained: Total at Pete Dye designed courses in his last 30 rounds, 8th in par 5 scoring this season, and 4th in Strokes Gained: Total in Florida over his past 36 rounds.
Lowry is a player who’s capable of winning big events. He’s a major champion and won another premier event at Wentworth as well as a WGC at Firestone. He’s also a form player, when he wins it’s typically when he’s contended in recent starts. He’s been terrific thus far in Florida and he should get into contention once again this week.
Brian Harman +8000 (DraftKings):
(Note: Since writing this Harman’s odds have plummeted to 50-1. I would not advise betting the 50).
Brian Harman showed us last season that if the course isn’t extremely long, he has the accuracy both off the tee and with his irons to compete with anyone in the world. Last week at Bay Hill and was third in the field in Strokes Gained: Approach, gaining 5.54 strokes on the field in the category.
In addition to the strong iron play, Harman also gained strokes off the tee in three of four rounds. He’s also had success at Pete Dye tracks recently. He finished 2nd at last year’s Travelers Championship and 7th at the RBC Heritage.
It would be a magnificent feat for Harman to win both the Open Championship and PLAYERS in a short time frame, but the reality is the PGA Tour isn’t quite as strong as it once was. Harman is a player who shows up for the biggest events and his odds seem way too long for his recent track record.
Tony Finau +6500 (FanDuel):
A few weeks ago, at the Genesis Invitational, I bet Hideki Matsuyama because I believed it to be a “bet the number” play at 80-1. I feel similarly about Finau this week. While he’s not having the season many people expected of him, he is playing better than these odds would indicate.
This season, Tony has a tied for 6th place finish at Torrey Pines, a tied for 19th at Riviera and tied for 13th at the Mexico Open. He’s also hitting the ball extremely well. In the field in his past 24 rounds, he ranks 3rd in Strokes Gained: Approach, 3rd in Strokes Gained: Ball Striking, 6th in Par 5 average and 15th in Total Driving.
Finau’s problem has been with the putter, which has been undeniably horrific. However, this week he will see a putting surface similar to the POA at TPC Scottsdale and PGA West, which he’s had a great deal of success on. It’s worth taking a stab at this price to see if he can have a mediocre week with the flat stick.
Sungjae Im +9000 (FanDuel):
It’s been a lackluster eighteen months for Sungjae, who once appeared to be a certain star. While his ceiling is absolutely still there, it’s been a while since we’ve seen Im play the type of golf expected of a player with his talent.
Despite the obvious concerns, the South Korean showed glimpses of a return to form last week at the Arnold Palmer Invitational. He tied for 18th place and gained strokes off the tee, on approach, around the green and with the putter. When at his best, Im is a perfect course fit for TPC Sawgrass. He has remarkable precision off the tee, can get dialed in with his irons on shorter courses and can get up and down with the best players on Tour.
This number has gotten to the point where I feel comfortable taking a shot on it.
Billy Horschel +20000 (FanDuel):
Billy Horschel is a great fit on paper for TPC Sawgrass. He can get dialed in with his irons and his lack of distance off the tee won’t be a major detriment at the course. “Bermuda Billy” does his best work putting on Bermudagrass greens and he appears to be rounding into form just in time to compete at The PLAYERS.
In his most recent start, Billy finished in a tie for 9th at the Cognizant Classic and hit the ball extremely well. The former Florida Gator gained 3.32 strokes on approach and 2.04 strokes off the tee. If Horschel brings that type of ball striking to TPC Sawgrass, he has the type of putter who can win a golf tournament.
Horschel has been great on Pete Dye designed courses, with four of his seven career PGA Tour wins coming on Dye tracks.
In a season that has seen multiple long shots win big events, the 37-year-old is worth a stab considering his knack for playing in Florida and winning big events.
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Crazy About Golf
Dec 15, 2017 at 12:06 am
Great article. Thanks for sharing! I play to a 1-handicap with today’s golf club technology. A few years back, I wondered just how I might fare with clubs from yesteryear. So i took my dad’s set of Golden Rams (of course he still had them because he’s a hoarder) out to the course for a test drive. The driver itself didn’t give me too many problems, but the irons were the tiniest little things I can ever recall seeing (and I play blades now)…..needless to say, I put up 8 strokes more than I normally would (luckily i made a few good putts or it would have been worse). I felt like my manhood had been completely stripped away from me…hitting approaches that ended up 10 yds short of the green or having even the slightest mis-hit feel as though I had just rearranged my dental work gave me the utmost respect for those who played the game in the generations before us. Tiger is certainly the greatest of this era, but his skill is no match for what Nicklaus, Hogan and Jones showcased before him.
JW
Dec 5, 2017 at 9:32 pm
Thought the article was really well written… and a cool take as well.
Now that I don’t play for anything bud fun the older clubs are definitely more fun.
Also believe Randy Moss is the best WR ever… LOL.
Benny
Nov 29, 2017 at 6:21 pm
Thanks for the great reading. It does make me think about strategy and precision. It’s why I still play blades. I remember the girl on Morning Drive was laughing while being blown away after she saw some old drivers. The phrase “hitting it on the screws” made so much more sense. She had no clue there was actually screws in the faces. Thats when you know we are old and walked to school up hill both ways. Nuts to think about the original 59 and that time and length. Maybe the best round ever??
Jeff
Nov 10, 2017 at 11:10 am
Thank you for an enjoyable read. Love your writing style. Many years ago I started with a set of Hogan blades and a couple of Ping persimmon woods. Would be very interesting to have that same set and take a whirl with them again.
EGR MN
Nov 11, 2017 at 12:01 pm
It’s called EBay.
I play with a set of Wilson Staff Goosenecks I bought in 1992. 2-PW with a HOgan Apex SW for added comfort.
Last year I found a 1 iron WS Gooseneck on eBay and bought it, though I’m not yet convinced it gives me more than the 240-250 I consistently get off the tee with my 2 iron.
Last year I finally broke down and got rid of my old Burner Plus 9.5 driver, which I used to launch 310-320 consistently. My wife bought me a driver fitting and I got put in a Titleist 915D3 (I’d still rather put my $ into rounds of golf instead of equipment). 290 off the tee right down the middle…and I’m now 56 years old (10 handicap; used to be 3).
Next up is my putter…since it too is from 1992. But…as much as I’ve test drove other putters, this Taylor Made is the perfect swing weight and it’s small imperfections are embedded in my brain and muscle memory.
Dad used to tell me “It’s the Indian, not the Arrow.” With apologies to all the great equipment companies, he’s right.
Carl-Gustaf
Nov 8, 2017 at 8:03 am
First of all, why you play DG S300 shaft is beyond me. Totally not the correct shafts for you seeing your swing speed and spin with your 8-iron.
Second of all, why did you not correct the lofts in the old set first? Clearly it’s 4 degrees between clubs so the 8-iron in the old set should be 40 degrees but thru the years got bent a bit (which is common).
Laz Versalles
Nov 9, 2017 at 11:39 pm
Hi Carl,
A few things: I’ve had Rifle 6.5, and DG X100, but ever since I suffered a grade 2 separation of my AC joint I’ve gone down to the DG300. As for the old staff lofts, I was happy with how they looked and kept them as is.
Mike
Nov 7, 2017 at 11:36 am
Very interesting! No. 3 is the par-3, not No. 4, just fyi.
Laz Versalles
Nov 9, 2017 at 11:40 pm
Yeah- saw that. Funny how I seem to make 4 more on #3 than I do on #4!
Mark Peck
Nov 6, 2017 at 8:34 pm
Fantastic article, thank you Laz.
I’m 49 now and this really resonated with me. Brings me back to playing in my teens in the 80s. I’ve always played blades and currently have 3 sets of the Staff Fluid Feels in my basement, all full 1 iron through wedges. (though not with the W/S badge stamping). I believe my sets are circa ’86 – ’89.
Also have a set of the Ram Tour Grinds but I couldn’t hit them as well for some reason. Currently playing Mizuno MP37s. I love when folks tell me that blades are only for good players. Then I let them hit mine and they get instant feedback on where they are missing on the face, even high handicappers. I’ve seen folks improve dramatically after a bucket of balls on the range with my butterknives.
I’ve also gone full retro on my bag, used to tote a Vagabond (Jones knockoff) from high school through college and have since tracked down 3 on Ebay and am restoring them now.
I’m sure I could lower my index w/ full kit of modern, fully juiced sticks, but I love the simple passion of walking, shotmaking (and shot failing!!) and enjoying the experience.
PS – also loved your review of Goat Hills on GCA, bravo.
Thanks again
Laz Versalles
Nov 9, 2017 at 11:45 pm
Thank you, Mark. I appreciate your feedback. We just had the club championship at the goat and there was a lot of persimmon in play. Tons of good players there. I just bought a Wood Bros driver on eBay this morning. A friend had one in college and he tells me a lot of the old SWC players like Justin Leonard played that driver. Can’t wait. Funny you call the vagabond a knock off! I loved those bags but I was a Jones kid myself. Connect w/ me on twitter or FB.
Mark Peck
Nov 12, 2017 at 10:44 pm
Love it Laz. I’m headed down to my basement to dust off my old MacGregor m85w eye-o-matic. You’ve inspired me to get a new grip on it and put it back in play.
I’ll hit you up on FB.
Thanks!
jgpl001
Nov 4, 2017 at 3:00 pm
Just puts Al Geiberger’s 59 into perspective and how brilliant it was with a similar bag of old school blades, persimmon woods and a balata ball on a course well over 7000 yards in the Texas heat
Unbelievable
etc.
Nov 4, 2017 at 5:22 pm
Does anybody really believe that today’s GI and SGI clubs helps recreational golfers with their game? I think it’s all a gigantic hoax perpetrated on the gullible golfing masses to sow discontent with their current clubs and to trick them into buying the latest ‘improved’ clubs that will rescue their pathetic game.
IOW, it’s not YOU, it’s your clubs trickery propaganda. Have you fallen for the scam?
Pp
Nov 5, 2017 at 5:14 pm
Ask the people who bought the P790 how they’re playing
M. Vegas
Nov 4, 2017 at 8:57 am
Your teenage arsenal had a sweet lookin putter yo
Laz Versalles
Nov 9, 2017 at 11:47 pm
It’s no longer in the teenage arsenal. It’s in the tournament bag now yo.
Mat
Nov 4, 2017 at 2:38 am
To me, this is all the more reason to reign in the ball.
If clubs can have a CoR, why can’t the ball?
Tim
Nov 3, 2017 at 6:48 pm
I run a summer golf league at one of the local muni’s. Every year, I try to convince the league to play with “real” woods and blades on British Open week, just for the tradition and to put some of the fun you speak of into the round. I have enough in the garage to outfit anyone who wants to give it a try. I have one player out of 50 that will hit a ceremonial tee shot off the first tee, but other than that, it’s just me against the world. I’ve been trying for almost 20 years to get people to give it a try, but no success so far. I’ll keep trying, as everyone should have some perspective on how things have come along.
Someone
Nov 3, 2017 at 5:57 pm
is it just me or were the loft gaps between the 7/8:9 in the wilson set off? wouldn’t it be more accurate to play modern day blade vs old blade?
i used to think blades were all the same but i went to a fitter to just hit some of the new stuff and found that Mizunos new MP18 actually went 5yds linger while the new TM p790’s with microgrooves actually went shorter, obviously due to the additional spin, but that gave them a much steeper landing angle and possibly could hold more greens. game improvement irons have always been jacked lofts which is one of the reasons that i prefer to play blades, but to each their own. i always check the std lofts of sets on their websites and any game improvement is always jacked up to be stronger. i guess long and wrong equates to game improvement since you may be closer to the hole, however if you hit them center every time, they absolutely have a chance of going further. with blades I have had more consistent distance control. not a knock on the cavity back tho, i did start with cavity backs from the get go. I just enjoy playing blades now.
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 8:52 pm
The Apex CF16 lofts are nuts. These were used, old clubs so I wasn’t surpised to see them all voer the map.
asugrad1988
Nov 3, 2017 at 5:32 pm
Laz:
The best thing I got from your article was memories. As I read through your great story, it brought back memories of playing with my friends when I was just a kid. I can’t remember how far I hit my clubs back then but I can remember getting a hot dog and a Coke at the turn for less than $1.00.
Thank you Laz!
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 9:26 pm
Love it. We always played the par-3 and the loser bought lemonades and snickers. Normally 1.00.
Matt
Nov 3, 2017 at 4:27 pm
Golf seems a bit less fun with the newer equipment, regardless of the scoring improvements. I’m playing the latest and greatest, fitted properly and all my old gear is gone except for a handful of Mac and Hogan persimmons. With retro gear (bikes, surfboards, golf, etc) the handmade aspect simply makes sport feel more human, so if I had enough spare time it would include an occasional round with old clubs.
Tom54
Nov 3, 2017 at 4:04 pm
Wonderful article Laz. Lots of golfers who are not old enough to have ever played persimmon woods and balata balls cannot relate to the difference between older equipment. One of my longest drives ever was with a Macgregor 945. Whenever I stand on that hole even with today’s modern drivers there’s no way I could carry it on the green. I guess being younger had a lot to do with it though. I wonder if 25-30 years down the road will those clubs and balls be such a leap forward or have we reached the limits. It is funny how when you look at old persimmon drivers you say “ man look how small it is, I could never hit that”. I’ll bet in 1980 if you handed someone todays big headed monsters you would have said “man look how big this thing is, how am I supposed to hit this little ball with that”
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 9:28 pm
Thank you, Tom. Question: Do you still have the McGregor? If not….
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MacGregor-T945-Eye-O-Matic-Driver-Vintage-Persimmon-Original-RH-mens-golf-club/172954809052?hash=item2844e8f2dc:g:YTEAAOSwxixZ9nV8
James Sweeney
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:02 pm
Enjoyed this article. While highly unscientific, you’ve taken a fair shot at the question of whether this game has actually gotten better over time.
One can fairly say, I think, that if the clubs used were tested using laboratory standards the differences betwen the two sets would be less than you experienced.
I often play persimmon woods in casual rounds with friends whose abilities are similar to mine, and for the most part I can keep up, distance- wise. I practice with the persimmons, however. My persimmon driver and three wood are copies of clubs custom made for Tiger Woods by Louisville Golf in the late 90s. They were copies of his Byron Nelson driver and McGregor Armour three wood and made so he could use them in practice. I use modern equipment in competition. I play blades.
Speaking for myself, I prefer the persimmons. I like the feel, the sound. I miss the Titlleist Professional, the best ball ive ever played. Some of the new “soft” balls are pretty good with the persimmons.
Is the equipment better today? Maybe. Certainly more consistant. Is the game better? Well, the game hasn’t reallly changed, the way it is played has. Not necessarily for the better.
In 1960 Arnold Palmer drove the 346 yard first hole at Cherry Hills CC in the fourth round of the USOpen. Even allowing for altitude at 5%, he drove that tee shot 325 yards. With persimmon.
The game is played differently today. If I can could only play one set for the rest of my life, I’ll take the persimmons.
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 5:11 pm
I recall Davis Love III killing drivers in the mid-nineties with persimmon. If you get a good block, they’re hard to beat.
James Sweeney
Nov 3, 2017 at 9:25 pm
Love was the last player to win a major with persimmon.
Dave Bourne
Nov 3, 2017 at 12:10 pm
Those Wilson Staff irons are from 1989 or 1990. The 1989 model has the diamonds along the scoring lines while the 1990 models don’t. Your loft values in the table aren’t correct either, although the ’89 Fluid Feel 8 iron is 41 degrees. This model of the Staff iron is one of their best ever IMHO and I restore and sell 10-20 sets per year.
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:26 pm
Hi Dave, the lofts may be off from the standard spec, but this is what they measured at. Can you DM me and tell me more about your restoration process? I am definitely keeping these clubs and would like to know what I can do to make them a bit nicer.
rex235
Nov 3, 2017 at 12:08 pm
Nice article. It is more of an apples vs oranges comparison, since your OEMs are different.
All of the newer clubs are available in a LH model, with few restrictions. They weren’t 30 years ago.
Of the traditional club set of Cleveland Classic persimmon woods and Wilson Staff irons, both were very high end, as the Driver and fairway wood have 5 screw butterfly soleplates. Neither was offered in a LH model. Quote Cleveland Golf- “You get 4 screw sweepback soleplates-nothing else.” Even the drill thru hosel for LH models was by request only. This Wilson Staff Fluid Feel iron model has the “W/S” crest, and they were only offered RH as well. The Wilson Staff TPXVIII putter came in RH/LH. Perhaps the test would have been closer with early cavity back irons vs modern blades.
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 2:34 pm
Or maybe me playing LH?
Grover
Nov 3, 2017 at 11:53 am
Laz
Love the article
Seems to me you have to get the ball right with the old irons and woods
Can’t hit these hard new balls with persimmon clubs
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:42 pm
Hi Grover, I seldom played the soft balatas back in the day, mostly the DT Titleist that were harder. I played mostly muni tracks that didn’t require the high spin softer balls.
I hit some shots with the persimmon and the Vice ball and it was fine- as long as you hit it in the middle of the club face. There’s a few models of “deep face” persimmon drivers that have caught me eye recently. I may try one.
Joseph dreitler
Nov 3, 2017 at 11:39 am
Great article. Thanks much. Hope i am around to read in 12 years what the writer’s number are when he is in his 60’s. For most amatuers, once you hit 60 or so, the numbers drop off a cliff. But, the biggest point was the original teaser — when i was 35 i could hit my irons close to the same distance and many Tour pros and the driver went about 250-260 including roll.
Fast forward today and way too many courses have become irrelevant for the Tour pros unless they are gimmicked up around the greens or fairways narrowed and rough grown up like weeds. Absent that or making the course 8200 yards long, the only solution is to bifurcate rules on the ball.
I have the proof (by the bucket every year) in my yard as i live across the street from the 15th green of The Ohio State Scarlet course of 450 yards and watch people hit 230 yard drives into the rough and then yank their 220 yard 3 woods into my yard.
BB
Nov 3, 2017 at 11:34 am
Well done! Very interesting article.
What shaft do you play in that Epic?
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:27 pm
Thanks, BB. I play the Alida Silver Rogue Max X-75.
david
Nov 3, 2017 at 8:44 am
I have a wooden tennis racket, Donnay Allwood a la vintage Borg, that I will warm up with before switching to my regular racket. Really makes me focus on form and watching the ball. I look forward to trying it with a persimmon.
ActualFacts
Nov 3, 2017 at 8:18 am
Great article and fun experiment Laz!
JB
Nov 3, 2017 at 7:59 am
What would you say the biggest difference was in tech?
Was the blade harder to play than a CB tech hyped iron of today?
Obviously there was distance issues off the drive. Do you think having to make up for that longer distance gap with an older longer iron (2 or 3 iron which are notoriously the hardest irons to play) played a part in why the scores differed?
I’m relating it to strokes gained, which just off the drives alone, you should already be up almost a whole stroke over the older clubs. Simply because your approach shots are now longer and inherently harder.
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:38 pm
Hi JB, Honestly 8-PW is the same feel. I think once you have that much loft, having a forgiving cavity is irrelevant. Hitting the AP2 4-iron vs. the Staff 4-iron is a different experience.
But the driver was just an unfair fight. I’m currently looking around for a driver with a shaft that suits me a little better and maybe has a deeper face. The Old Wood Brothers drivers have my interest right now. We’ll see.
The dude
Nov 3, 2017 at 5:41 am
Great article,…..now, do the same with hickory sticks ….now that’ll surprise you
alanp
Nov 3, 2017 at 7:19 am
agreed i just sent a group message to all the guys last week that we should do a hickory day at the club. that would be a lot of fun
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 10:30 pm
Call me. I’m in.
UnclePhil
Nov 2, 2017 at 11:22 pm
This was a great read!! I too miss my blonde TC15 Cleveland Classic persimmon driver with the diamond shaped black insert, and the walnut colored CC 3 wood. My first set of irons in ’89 were the Titleist Tour Model butter knives. Whew, those would still be tough to hit today, but when you “catch one out of the middle,” there is absolutely nothing like the impact’less feel. Like butt’a!!
Great article and fun to flashback on!! Bravo
Stuart
Nov 2, 2017 at 8:58 pm
Ah, Rich Acres. Before it was a runway, it was one of two exotic golf destinations from my home in Apple Valley, the other being Hiawatha, which is not long for this world. Time has passed by more than just our old driver.
Laz Versalles
Nov 3, 2017 at 1:30 pm
God bless you, Stuart. Hiawatha appears to be on the chopping block from what I’ve read but the city is blessed with many, many great courses. Every time I land at MSP I wonder if my plane is rolling over the old course (not St. Andrews). I hear that little exec course in Eagan is also gone.
Paul
Nov 2, 2017 at 7:59 pm
Very interesting article, I would love to see the pros play a “vintage” tournament, a 36 hole off-season event for charity on a classic course.
Bernard
Nov 2, 2017 at 5:53 pm
“…….it was a lot more fun”.
It’s why I still carry traditional irons, and will forever though the Driver will not be persimmon. The shot options on trajectory and maneuverability is 2nd to none. The good is greater the bad is worse, so it really becomes a more vivid time. It’s golf in 4K HD.
Laz Versalles
Nov 2, 2017 at 7:26 pm
What kind of irons do you hit, Bernard?
Bernard
Nov 2, 2017 at 8:42 pm
Hi Laz,
I have several in rotation, ’99 Hogan Apex, Greg Norman Signature MB, Titleist 681 and Wilson FG 59’s, another 6 sets that if had the right shafts I would play too. The Wilson’s are hot in the bag this moment.
Bernard
Nov 2, 2017 at 8:44 pm
Right now Wilson FG 59 but have 3 other in rotation plus more waiting on proper shaft fit.
SK
Nov 2, 2017 at 9:15 pm
I have a set (2-PW) of RAM Tour Grind model TW276 clubs (used by Tom Watson to win one of his Open claret jugs) in a beautiful brushed satin finish. I use them as training clubs because they are very small muscleback blades with a very low eccentricity between the shaft axis and sweet spot.
This forces me to guide the shaft and hosel closer to impact point. This also creates an effortless supination of my left lead arm going into impact. It’s an interesting sensation and takes a few days to adapt. Then I return to my larger and higher eccentricity PINGs with some compensation and I can find the sweet spot more easily too. It’s like a refresh and reboot!
The same thing would happen if you owned and played the Wilson Staff and Titleist AP2 clubs and alternated between each set of clubs.
You see, there is no such thing as “grooving” a golf swing because the human body is not that accurate using the big slow twitch muscles at high speeds. It’s just an anatomical fact.
Bernard
Nov 3, 2017 at 3:40 pm
I really do not mind the miss hits on irons near as much as I mind the misses with metals. Truth is ball stays in play better with blades, coming up short on a misfire is 9/10 better than being offline to yardage.
bill
Nov 2, 2017 at 5:40 pm
To GolfWRX Staff:
That banner flashing ad you have at the top of the website is not only annoying, it gave me an epileptic seizure due to the rapid flashing. I did find the ‘Close Ad X-box’, but it a bit too much of an in-your-face promotion ad. Tone it down please.
mM
Nov 2, 2017 at 9:24 pm
Use an AdBlocker. Simples!
Jim Lahey
Nov 2, 2017 at 5:38 pm
Now repeat the test using a modern golf ball with both sets. I’ve done a similar experiment and found that the Persimmon woods don’t lag that far behind the modern metal woods when hit out the middle. I got curious and bought some balata balls at a 2nd hand store, and could instantly see the distance drop off (much higher spin).
Laz Versalles
Nov 2, 2017 at 7:17 pm
Jim, That’s a great idea. I hit a lot of shots with the persimmon and the modern ball. All the data from the drivers is using a modern Bridgesotne ball. I think if I had a modern shaft inserted into a persimmon it would get even more interesting. Maybe an Aerotech or KBS Tour C-Taper.
mM
Nov 2, 2017 at 9:25 pm
“when hit out the middle”
Of course! But the modern clubs give you the size to miss the middle and still get a lot out of it. THAT’s the difference.
Jim Lahey
Nov 3, 2017 at 3:24 pm
Yes, that is true. But the main point I was trying to make is that the ball is making a majority of the difference. Laz was reporting 50 yards difference on the course between new and old equipment (including ball), but I think he will see a much smaller difference when using modern balls.
NRJyzr
Nov 3, 2017 at 9:03 am
The biggest issue with these sorts of comparisons is the golfball. Wound balls suffer a great deal of performance loss due to age, far more than solid balls, and the loss tends to be more apparent with the longer clubs.
Unless someone really is still making a few wound balls for pros who never switched, we’ll never be able to know for sure. Other than ball test data from 2001…
SK
Nov 2, 2017 at 4:41 pm
The modern equipment should be played from the tips and the old equipment a tee box step down or two.
As the golf courses got longer the club lofts changed to compensate for the extra distances.
Scott Francis
Nov 2, 2017 at 5:21 pm
True that would be more of an even match play old equipment from one up tees.
Laz Versalles
Nov 2, 2017 at 7:19 pm
Scott, Teenage Me would have never gone up a tee box against anyone. Never. Honestly, I think if I get a persimmon driver with a better shaft it’s a much closer game.
mM
Nov 2, 2017 at 9:28 pm
SK,
At Rancho Park, the new Black tees are what the Pros plays during the 50’s and 60’s at the LA Open at this site. So what you say is not true, as the old tee boxes were recently restored.
Which says that some of the bombers in the old days really bombed it, as we know, Jack hit it past 300 easily with the soft balata and with persimmons.
iutodd
Nov 2, 2017 at 4:18 pm
Seems like you could have more fun on the course if you got a modern mini-driver!!!
Or if you didn’t hit driver on 375 yard par 4s. The game CAN be more fun – you just have to think differently. For instance – the 381 yard par four first…I guess if it’s wide open hit driver…but with a bunker at 240 out…why not play short of the bunker and have ~140 in? That’s still a 8 or 9 iron right? I guess I just don’t think driver should be an automatic pull off the tee on every par four and if it is then maybe you’re playing the wrong tees.
I don’t like playing with other people (that I don’t know) mainly for that reason – I’m hitting my 4 or 5 wood or even an iron and they’re hitting driver. And it’s always like…like they think that I’m too cool for school or something. “Look at Mr. Golf over here – hitting less than driver….(wanking motion)” is kind of the attitude. (There is also a masculinity element to it somehow – like I’m not man enough to hit driver or soemthing) It ups the pressure on me to execute and gets into my head a bit and makes the round less fun. Anyway…
Enjoyed the article BTW.
Laz Versalles
Nov 2, 2017 at 7:25 pm
Todd, I’ve hit 3 wood on #1 at Rancho exactly twice. Both shots are still rolling down Pico Blvd (O.B. left.) Maybe it’s because I go from trunk to tee quite often, but I like taking driver off the first tee whenever possible.
iutodd
Nov 3, 2017 at 9:24 am
Thanks for the reply – obviously I don’t know the course.
And I get it with going right from the car to the course.
Just the thoughts that were rolling through my head. Again – enjoyed the article.
Chris Olseth, PGA
Dec 7, 2017 at 6:43 pm
“Never show fear on the 1st Tee, hit the driver!”
T.J.H.
mM
Nov 2, 2017 at 9:30 pm
iutodd,
You would normally hit driver on that hole because it’s uphill quite a bit and requires at least a 250 carry type shot to get over the bunker uphill and with your first swing of the day, you’re hard-pressed to hit that unless you hit it square, which, for most amateurs with mid-handicaps, we know it’s not easy. Not on the first tee.
George
Nov 2, 2017 at 3:11 pm
The difference in score could be from the learning curve of using a set that does not get as much practice. When I got my new clubs it took at least a couple months before I was able to notice any difference. If I switch back i would have zero control over my old clubs.