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Scheinblum: What is a full turn?

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“I am trying to make a full turn.”

“I am trying to complete my back swing.”

I’ve heard these phrases come out of golfer’s mouths for 30 years, and didn’t care to know what they really meant… until I started teaching golf.

Some instructors say golfers should bring the club to parallel with their backswings, and others say that a 90-degree shoulder rotation is best (not to be confused with shoulders turning at a 90-degree angle to the spine). Then there are those who believe golfers should try to “turn their back to the target,” and ones who preach of getting the front shoulder over the back foot.

There are several problems with all of these tips, however, starting with the fact that parallel is a meaningless, arbitrary position that only has value in that it is symmetrical. And most people do not have the flexibility to make a 90-degree shoulder rotation, which again, is another symmetrical, although less arbitrary position. Falstaff would be selling these movements if he taught golf.

Now turning your back to the target seems meritorious, but it can cause a common, yet overlooked problem — the body over rotating and the spine losing its tilt away from the target or even tilting toward the target. I have come to call this reverse tilt, loss of tilt, or rotating out of tilt. It also involves the rear shoulder getting too close to the target.

This should not be confused with a reverse pivot, which usually happens immediately on the takeaway where the weight shifts to the front side, and then shifts to the back side on the downswing — the bane of beginners and very high handicappers. Reverse tilt, which begins fine but ends poorly, is an epidemic among mid to low handicappers, as many of them do it to some extent.

There are in fact people that can and should get the club past parallel and turn their shoulders past 90 degrees. It is almost a direct correlation between flexibility and ability to create speed for those that go to and past these arbitrary positions. Payne Stewart, John Daly and most of your world class long drivers are famous examples.

Daly

Two-time major champion John Daly takes the club well past parallel during his backswing.

So again, the question begs, what is a full turn?

The answer is very individual. The simple answer for most golfers is that the back swing stops as soon as the shoulders reach their maximum rotation. Golfers should take care to make sure that the arms do not continue the swing when the shoulders reach that point of maximum rotation.

The exceptions are for people with the ability to create speed and/or link their arms up to their turn after they have run past. It’s not an ideal movement, and there are a very few who are successful at it, such as Fred Couples. It’s extremely hard to consistently separate the arms from the body during the turn/pivot and make consistent contact.

couples-b

Masters champion Fred Couples has the ability to separate his arms from his turn and still make solid contact consistently.

Most golfers who over run their shoulder turn with their arm swing aren’t as skilled as Couples, which gives them a backswing that is too long. As a result, they can’t generate enough speed with their turn or their arms, so they end up with what I once heard described as, “A Southern Belle limp wristed throw” at the ball. I still don’t know exactly what that means, but it sounded pretty negative to me.

Here’s are true, technical answers to what a full turn really is:

  1. A full turn is created when the shoulders have reached their maximum turn at the proper angle (rotating at an angle perpendicular to the spine at address). This will be 50 degrees for some golfers, and in two-time World Long Drive Champion Jamie Sadlowski’s case, upwards of 120 degrees. Most golfers will be in the 70-to-90 degree range.
  2. A full turn occurs when the arm swing does not continue after the maximum shoulder rotation is achieved.

The above two issues are commonly known throughout the golf world and supported by most instructors. But there’s a third, more important answer, which is often overlooked by instructors.

3. Stay short of the point where the body can no longer sustain spine tilt away from the target. In a face on view, the rear shoulder does not rotate closer to the front foot than the rear foot.

Many high handicappers violate No. 2 and are told by all their friends, internet gurus, instructors, network announcers, their wives, kids, religious leaders, mailman and Pilates instructor. As a direct result of this “arm overrun”, they lose their lag, which for the Rip Van Winkles is the magic angle between the left arm and shaft (for right handed golfers).

I want to make it clear that no holding of the angle, float loading, ringing the bell or Marquis de Sade endorsed training aid is going to allow these golfers to keep their lag when they violate No. 2. They can’t create enough speed to sustain their lag because their overly long backswings just won’t allow it.

Yes, it’s true that a longer swing can create more speed and power for a select few, for most golfers it greatly reduces it. And since quality repetition is what creates good golf, redundancy from an instructor is not a sin and doesn’t put you in the third ring of Inferno. With redundancy being a virtue, I get to follow Beatrice into Paradiso.

The amazing thing is how many low handicappers, single digits and mini-tour level players violate No. 3 and don’t even know it’s a bad thing. Not only can many of them not sustain their lag and speed all the way to the ball because their arms don’t have the room to speed up, violating No. 3 tilts the spine toward the target, steepening the angle of attack. Most often, the body reacts by throwing the lag angle away to shallow out AoA (so a golfer doesn’t dig a grave with an iron or put an idiot mark on top of the driver). What makes it even worse is that experienced and high-level golfers know from a feel perspective they don’t want to hang back to recreate tilt at impact that all good players have with all clubs, so they end up moving the upper body laterally toward the target, exacerbating their problems.

Below are pictures that illustrate this point. Photo 1 is of one of my clients who is a low single digit, next to my “playing swing.”  My client’s right shoulder has rotated all the way over to his front foot and he has not tilted away from the target. At first look, this back swing looks text book as the shoulder turn appears huge, there is no arm overrun and he is not past parallel. However, he has set himself in a place where his angle of attack is going to be too steep and he gradually will lose his lag angle and have no shaft lean at impact — the two main reasons he came to me for help.

Photos 2 and 3 are of my “long drive swing” that at 46 years old, I can still use at times produce club head speeds of more than 130 mph. You will notice how even in my swing that goes well past parallel, I still have spine tilt away from the target and my right shoulder has not gone across the midline of my body. That is a full turn.

Photo 1

 Photos 2 and 3

In the photo below, you will see the real X-factor on the right (not to be confused with the X-factor that caused millions of golfers to restrict their hip turn). My long drive swing with a vertical line from my right shoulder to the ground and one on my spine make a nice X. On the left, you will see a long hitting GolfWRXer who makes a huge turn, but has no X-factor. This is not a thinly veiled attempt to brag.  As I prepare for the Remax World Long Drive Championships in two months, it’s evidence I am trying to practice what I preach.

X-Factor

I’ve also included photos of Tiger Woods and Ben Hogan below. In the photo, Tiger is working on a centered pivot, and you can see that Hogan went past parallel. But neither Tiger nor Hogan rotated the right shoulder past their mid-line, and both sustained their tilt away from the target in the backswing.  They both have real X-factor.

TigerHogan

So if you want to achieve your maximum power and efficiency — and for the lagists, maximum lag — you need to figure out what your full turn is. For nearly all of you, it is going to be a shorter swing that “feels powerless.”

Put a shaft across your chest and hold it cross-armed with the club head on the side of your back shoulder and stand in front of a mirror in a golf posture. Stretch to your maximum turn where your spine is still tilted away from the target and that clubhead is still closer to your back foot than your front foot. Now take the club, grip it and extend your hands away from your chest.

The key is not getting the front shoulder over the back foot — it’s getting a maximum turn while keeping the back shoulder over the back foot, or at least not across the middle of the stance. That is what sustains the tilt away from the target, gives your arms room to accelerate, produces the optimal angle of attack … and wait for it … sustains maximum lag and shaft lean through impact.

That is a full turn. For most of you, it will be a lot shorter than what you do.

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Monte Scheinblum is a former World Long Drive Champion and Web.com Tour player. For more insights and details on this article, as well as further instruction from Monte go to rebelliongolf.com

24 Comments

24 Comments

  1. garcinia cambogia extract

    Dec 14, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    We enjoy your site, hope you really don’t head that we shared
    it on fb

  2. mega

    Oct 1, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    This is exactly what I am working on with my instructor. In fact, everything else we have worked on has come fairly easy, this is not coming easy as I keep over swinging.

  3. Jdish

    Sep 18, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    Possibly the best thing I’ve ever read about the golf swing. Seriously

  4. Pingback: It bears reading again | Monte Scheinblum's Blog

  5. ???????????

    Aug 18, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    ??????

  6. Dan

    Aug 6, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    love the article. I will try to put these tips into my practice immediately

  7. Brian

    Aug 2, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    You couldn’t be more wrong about some people having 50 degrees of shoulder turn while Sadlowski having 120 degrees or so. In grad school we measured anatomical rotation of the spine on all the golfers, gymnasts, and baseball players. while restricting the hips to get an accurate measurement of only spinal rotation (aka shoulder rotation, shoulder turn, etc.) from L5-T1 (17 vertebra in total) the highest total amount of rotation was 48 degrees and that was by 2 gymnasts. The golfers and baseball players on average had 42 degrees with the highest in both sports being 46 degrees. There are countless studies out there that back up this data and healthsouth did a study years ago in the same thing on the pga tour. It is anatomically IMPOSSIBLE without shatter the spine to turn 120 degrees.

    • RM

      Aug 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm

      I think the key in your response is “while restricting the hips to get an accurate measurement of only spinal rotation”. I don’t believe he is referring to the spinal rotation, but instead the shoulder rotation in relation to the feet. The rotation in the hips and knees would account for the rest, from what I would guess.

  8. Greg

    Aug 2, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    Makes sense, I read the whole thing and I completely agree. Ive thought of this myself, and it makes sense that if you get reverse spine tilt towards the target it will cause you to have to release early to square the club up. And I agree the divot will tell you a lot, if you don’t release early to create a shallower impact you’ll dig way to much.

  9. Paddy

    Aug 2, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Hey Monte,

    Good stuff. Any articles/tips on ensuring that the arm swing doesn’t go “past” the full shoulder turn?

    Thanks,
    P

  10. ANDREW

    Aug 2, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Great read, that was well done.

  11. Andreas

    Aug 1, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    Absolutely spot on, excellent article. This is the kind of advice you WONT get if you go to the ‘brand name’ instructors. Well done Monte

  12. Richard

    Aug 1, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Tom, I have the same feeling. One thing is to hit balls in the driving range and other is to play. But I’m feeling that this really works. Monte is right, we amateurs do not have enough skills to turn and separate arms as pros do. But other important thing is that you have to get away from the temptation to compensate the “short backswing” swinging hard the hands and arms in the downswing. Just drop them and let the club do the job. Monte, please correct me if I’m wrong!

  13. Tom

    Aug 1, 2013 at 5:42 am

    So this is why my 3/4 swing is more accurate and repeatable than my “full swing” and gains just as much distance? Now, if I can just talk myself away from the thought of, ” some is good, so more must be better!”

    Great article Monte…thanks!
    Tom McNamara

  14. BigBoy

    Jul 31, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    brilliant article.

  15. Derrick Brent

    Jul 31, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    Great article Monte. Preach, Rev. Monte — preach!

  16. Richard

    Jul 31, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    I’m 54 and play golf since I was 12. It’s amazing how my top swing is short. I was a little disapointed, but hitting some balls evthing felt different. My question is if this repeatable in the course without feeling powerless.

    • Rob

      Jul 31, 2013 at 4:40 pm

      Richard –

      This very issue was causing 99% of my ball striking problems; keeping the arms going after my shoulder turn stopped. It has taken many months to get it in my head that what I perceive as a “short back swing”, when viewed on video, is actually quite long, and the result is a powerful strike generally in the center of the face.

      I feel your concern wondering whether on not one can convince themselves that what feels like a pitch shot back swing really will launch the ball that 185 yards you need on this shot.

      My best advise: Practice it on the range, then trust it on the course!

    • Monte Scheinblum

      Jul 31, 2013 at 4:49 pm

      Once you get used to the new feel…FAR more repeatable than over rotating.

  17. Pingback: Proof the golfing public has been brainwashed | Monte Scheinblum's Blog

  18. mike

    Jul 30, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    hey monte, im having the same problem as your client in the first photo, where my right shoulder rotates to over to my front foot. What are some ways to fix this?

    • Cyd

      Jul 31, 2013 at 11:36 am

      From the Article

      “you need to figure out what your full turn is. For nearly all of you, it is going to be a shorter swing that “feels powerless.”

      Put a shaft across your chest and hold it cross-armed with the club head on the side of your back shoulder and stand in front of a mirror in a golf posture. Stretch to your maximum turn where your spine is still tilted away from the target and that clubhead is still closer to your back foot than your front foot. Now take the club, grip it and extend your hands away from your chest.”

      Do this over and over. Practice it so you know the feel. Then practice getting to this position while performing the back swing in front of a mirror. Do it over and over and over and over again. Drill it home!

    • Monte Scheinblum

      Jul 31, 2013 at 4:49 pm

      What cyd said was helpful.

      Also, hitting 1/2 wedges where you get a sense your right shoulder is over your right foot.

  19. Rob

    Jul 30, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Great article Monte! Very informative. Thanks!

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TXG: Should you carry TWO DRIVERS? // Distance, Accuracy, Draw & Fade Setups

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Some of the best players in the world have been testing a two-driver setup for their bags. Does it make sense to play two drivers if they are set up for two different shot shapes? We test one driver setup for maximum distance and draw flight and another setup for accuracy and fade flight. See whether this could be an advantage for your game—and help you get off the tee better at your course!

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Fixing the shanks: How to stop shanking the golf ball

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May you never be concerned about fixing the shanks! But if you’re begging the golf gods for guidance how to stop shanking the golf ball? Ready to offer up your first-born child for the wisdom how to stop shanking irons? Frantically asking Google how to never shank a golf ball again?

Fear not. We’ll get to drills to stop shanking irons shortly that are guaranteed to ingrain the proper feel and anti-shank action, but first, a brief discussion of what exactly a shank is (other than will-to-live crushing).

More often than not, a shank occurs when a player’s weight gets too far onto the toes, causing a lean forward. Instead of the center of the clubface striking the ball—as you intended at address—the hosel makes contact with your Titleist, and—cover your ears and guard your soul—a shank occurs.

How to stop shanking the golf ball

If you’ve ever experienced the dreaded hosel rocket departing your club at a 90-degree angle, you know how quickly confidence can evaporate and terror can set in.

Fortunately, the shanks are curable and largely preventable ailment. While there are drills to fix your fault you once the malady has taken hold, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

How to stop shanking the golf ball

If you’re trying to understand how to stop shanking the golf ball, you need to understand where the ball makes contact with the club during a shank.

Fixing the shanks

To avoid shanking the golf ball, it’s important to lock in on some keys…

  • Have a proper setup and posture…Athletic posture, arms hang down, neither too bent over nor too upright, weight on the balls of the feet.
  • Keep your grip light and arms tension free…If 10 is a death grip of golf club and 1 is the club falling out of your hand, aim for a grip in the 4-6 range. Make sure your forearms aren’t clenched.
  • Maintain proper balance throughout the swing…50/50 weight to start (front foot/back foot). 60/40 at the top of the backswing. 90/10 at impact.
  • Avoid an excessively out-to-in or in-to-out swing path…Take the club straight back to start, rather than excessively inside (closer to the body) or outside (further away from the body).

The best drill to stop shanking the golf ball

Set up properly (as discussed above), flex your toes upward as you begin your swing and keep your chest high (maintain your spine angle) throughout the swing.

Other than those focal points, keep your brain free of any additional chatter, which only exacerbates shankitis.

(For more advice, be sure to check out what our friends at Me and My Golf have to say below)

Now you know how to stop shanking the golf ball and have the tools to never shank the golf ball again.

Praise the golf gods!

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Cameron Smith’s 3-month Covid-19 training block

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Whilst Covid-19 has presented countless grave health and economic challenges to the world’s population, it has also provided opportunity for many people to focus their attention on projects that they normally wouldn’t have time for.

Turns out PGA Tour players are no different, and in the case of Cameron Smith, we used the enforced break from competitive golf to undertake a very rare, uninterrupted 3 month block of strength training.

Cam plays 25-30 events a year spread across 4 continents and this presents a number of challenges to overcome from a training and programming perspective:

– Varying facilities

– Travel fatigue and jet lag

– Concerns around muscle soreness affecting ability to perform on course

– Physical and mental cost of competing

When combined, these challenges can often render even the most carefully planned training programs redundant. So whilst many golf fans were coming to terms with a prolonged absence of PGA Tour events, I was getting stuck into designing programs that would hopefully elicit the following outcomes for Cam:

– More muscle mass

– More strength

– More power

In a normal season, I’m hesitant to prescribe programs that focus on muscle gain, because the nature of the training volume tends to tighten Cam up (reduce his range of motion), reduce his club-head speed and elicit a lot of muscle soreness…..not an ideal combination for short term performance! But I knew in this case, we could get stuck into some higher volume work because we would have plenty of time to recover from any lost mobility, reduced speed and increased soreness before tournaments started again.

 

Mid March – Program 1 – General Hypertrophy Focus

We decided with the global virus outlook looking dire and the PGA Tour promising to deliver a 30 day notice before resumption of play, we should focus on hypertrophy (increasing muscle size) until the 30 day notice period was delivered. At that point we would switch to a more familiar power based program in preparation for tournaments starting up again.

Program Breakdown:

– 4 weeks

– 3 sessions per week

– 1 x lower focus (legs, glutes, core)

– 1 x push focus (chest, shoulders, triceps, core)

– 1 x pull focus (back, biceps, core)

– Gradually increasing volume over 4 weeks (more reps and sets to failure)

Training Variables:

Sets: 3 to 4

Reps: 8 to 12

Tempo: 2-0-2 (2 seconds up, no pause, 2 seconds down)

Weight: around 70% of maximum

Rest: 60 seconds, but this can vary when pairing exercises together in supersets or mini circuits

 

Example Workout – Lower Body Focus (legs, glutes, core):

 

Example Exercises:

 

Mid April – Program 2 – Lower Body Hypertrophy Focus

As Cam was about to finish up his first hypertrophy program, there was a fairly clear indication that there would be no play until mid June at the earliest. Knowing that we had 2 more months of training, we decided to continue with another hypertrophy block. This time increasing the focus on the lower body by breaking down the leg work into 2 seperate sessions and ramping up the training volume.

Program Breakdown:

– 4 weeks

– 4 sessions per week

– 2 x lower body focus (1 x quad focused workout and 1 x hamstring / glute focused workout)

– 1 x push focus (chest, shoulders, triceps, core)

– 1 x pull focus (back, biceps, core)

– Gradually increasing volume over 4 weeks (more reps and sets)

Training Variables:

Sets: 3 to 4

Reps: 8 to 12

Tempo: 2-0-2 (2 seconds up, no pause, 2 seconds down)

Weight: around 70% of maximum

Rest: 60 seconds, but this can vary when pairing exercises together in supersets or mini circuits

 

Example Workout – Pull Focus (back, biceps, core):

 

Example Exercises:

Mid May – Program 3 – Power Focus

Once we received confirmation that play would be resuming 11th June at Colonial, we made the call to switch to a power focused program. Moving back to 3 days per week, lowering the volume and increasing the intensity (more weight and more speed in the main lifts).

The idea is to get the body used to moving fast again, reduce muscle soreness to allow better quality golf practice, and supplement the with more mobility work to re-gain any lost range of motion.

We also added some extra grip work because Cam discovered that with the muscle and strength gain, plus lifting increased weight, his grip was failing on key lifts…..not such a bad problem to have!

Program Breakdown:

– 4 weeks

– 3 sessions per week

– 1 x lower body focus (legs, glutes, core, grip)

– 1 x upper body focus (chest, back, biceps, triceps, core, grip)

– 1 x combined focus (legs, glutes, shoulders, core, grip)

– Volume remains constant (same sets and reps), aiming to increase intensity (either weight or speed) over the 4 weeks.

Training Variables:

Sets: 4 to 5

Reps: 3-5 for main exercises, 8-12 for accessory exercises.

Tempo: X-0-1 for main exercises (as fast as possible in up or effort phase, no pause, 1 second down). 2-0-2 for accessory exercises.

Weight: around 85% of maximum for main exercises, around 70% for accessory exercises.

Rest: 90 seconds, but this can vary when pairing exercises together in supersets or mini circuits

 

Example Workout – Combined (legs, glutes, core, shoulders, grip):

 

Example Exercises:

 

If you are interested in receiving some professional guidance for your training, then check out the services on offer from Nick at Golf Fit Pro

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