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The Wedge Guy: Swing Weight Part 2 – Non-standard lengths

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This is the part of the swingweight discussion where I expect to get lots of dialog, so here goes.

The modern trend in clubfitting seems to “fit” many golfers long and upright, which I don’t necessarily agree with, but can sound off on that later. Today, we’re going to talk about this subject, and I’m going to share my theory on what does and should happen to swingweight.

The idea of fitting a golfer with longer shafts is to accommodate his or her height and posture. Let’s say my friend who’s 6’3” really likes my irons, and wants a set “just like them”, but he wants them built to his own specs of 1” overlength. So, to accommodate his larger size and assumed strength, we build him a set of irons just like mine, except that the shafts 1 inch longer than mine are. Now, that one inch in the butt of the golf club shaft only adds about 2 grams to the overall weight of the club, and does nothing to the flex profile. So his new irons are EXACTLY like mine – same shaft flex, same heads, same everything.

BUT, when we put his new irons on the swingweight scale, he goes ballistic, because they read D7-9, rather than the D2 that I play. But they are not heavier than mine: they are just like mine, only altered to accommodate his size.

However, if he insists that they should be only D2, as a clubmaker, I have my work cut out for me. First, I have to grind weight off the clubheads . . . considerable weight, as much as 5-8% of the mass . . . with greatly alters the club, right? And removing that much mass then makes the shafts play much stiffer, increasing the frequency by a half a flex or more. So, in order to “match” the swingweight, I’ve created a tremendously lighter and stiffer club – nothing like the irons I have that he liked so much.

Or I guess I could counter-weight the club significantly, which also is dramatically changing the irons that we wanted to be “just like mine.”

What I have always proposed is that we think in the concept of “swingweight equivalent”. If the club is D2 at standard length, it’s going to be D4-5 at 1/2” over, maybe D8-9 at 1” over. When we are making shaft length adjustments that are shorter, that exact same club will be C9 or so at 1/2” shorter than standard.

I really think it’s just that simple. What about all of you?

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Terry Koehler is a fourth generation Texan and a graduate of Texas A&M University. Over his 40-year career in the golf industry, he has created over 100 putter designs, sets of irons and drivers, and in 2014, he put together the team that reintroduced the Ben Hogan brand to the golf equipment industry. Since the early 2000s, Terry has been a prolific writer, sharing his knowledge as “The Wedge Guy”.   But his most compelling work is in the wedge category. Since he first patented his “Koehler Sole” in the early 1990s, he has been challenging “conventional wisdom” reflected in ‘tour design’ wedges. The performance of his wedge designs have stimulated other companies to move slightly more mass toward the top of the blade in their wedges, but none approach the dramatic design of his Edison Forged wedges, which have been robotically proven to significantly raise the bar for wedge performance. Terry serves as Chairman and Director of Innovation for Edison Golf – check it out at www.EdisonWedges.com.

13 Comments

13 Comments

  1. Jeff

    Jan 23, 2022 at 2:32 pm

    If he likes your clubs, then why change the specs? Just because he is taller than you,which most people are, (lol) does not mean he needs longer clubs. It is about being able to square the clubface at the ball!!

  2. Jeff

    Jan 23, 2022 at 2:14 pm

    He hit your clubs and liked them! Why change? Maybe your length is the length he really needs. It may allow him to set up to the ball properly and square the clubface at impact. I am sure he is probably taller than you and because of his height was fitted with longer clubs.

  3. geohogan

    Jul 18, 2020 at 10:11 am

    @mark brooks, suggest to you that many brilliant scientists and inventors design
    off the shelf golf shafts to be as cheap to make as possible.
    How much value is in 99% of all shafts in play(off the shelf) when their made for
    $5-$10 each.

    IMO you need to go to after market shafts in order to get any consistency of CPM.
    Xi iron shafts (cpm over 300 within recommended lengths) are as tip stiff as is possible for a graphite shaft within the given hosel diameter. Butt cut only is a good sign of a tip stiff shaft.

    Ben Hogan’s clubs were C7-C9 SW for a reason. He swung the grip end of the club
    He didnt throw the clubhead which is the tendency with high SW clubs.

  4. Douglas Mael

    Jul 17, 2020 at 11:38 am

    I agree with this premise, at least in theory, Terry! In addition, many (but certainly far from all) golfers who need or prefer longer-than-standard playing length clubs are also stronger than your average golfer. These guys can, and often do, play much better with clubs that have a slightly higher swingweight. I know that I prefer the swingweight on all of my clubs to be at least D3-D4, and on my wedges, I want the swingweights to be above D5 or D6. I work out extensively and am far stronger than the average guy my age (71) and probably stronger than most guys in their 30s. Thus, I prefer clubs with a heavier swingweight, and play better golf when using them.

  5. Bruce

    Jul 17, 2020 at 10:20 am

    I am a mechanical engineer and studied objects in motion, like golf clubs, rather extensively. Isaac Newton proposed laws of motion along with mathematical methods in 1687, and these fundamentals have been verified in thousands of experiments and predictions. Newton’s laws and mathematics are not to be questioned: they describe motion of visible objects over a wide range of velocities.
    Swingweight is a balance property like two children on a see-saw – swingweight is a length times distance function: the lighter child is on the longer end of the see-saw.
    Now the conclusion: Newton’s mathematical equations of motion do NOT contain any length times distance terms. Therefore swingweight is irrelevant to golf club motion. Forget about swingweight and play what works for you!!
    Newton does provide a club matching parameter, but that is a topic for a whole different discussion.

  6. Forged MB

    Jul 17, 2020 at 9:59 am

    It’s not as simple as just excepting the 6 point swing weight increase at 1” over because the MOI is not the same and therefore the feel, performance, and effort required to swing the club are not the same as a standard length D2 swing weighted club.

    The problem is that the industry should not be using swing weight to begin with. It’s archaic and pointless. It’s much like building a club to a specific frequency. Swing weight and frequency are only accurate measurements when you are trying to replicate the EXACT SAME CLUB. You cannot build a club at a different length, weight, or with a different shaft and obtain a “match” by using swing weight and frequency.

    In regards to the shaft, the amount of deflection does change when you simply lengthen the club even though the ei profile is not altered. So, the dynamic bending of the shaft is changed and influenced by the added length even without a change to the profile.

    • Bruce

      Jul 17, 2020 at 10:26 am

      On target: replicate a GIVEN clob, but not match a set. Club MOI is a valid matching parameter; hence the matched feel of single length clubs.

  7. Robert

    Jul 16, 2020 at 11:14 am

    What about needing shorter lengths – 1/2 to 1 inch length? Have always heard if club already made get out the lead tape. Best to order special from factory and the manufacturer will use slightly heavier heads.
    Have wondered if it would be better mfg cut shaft off at both ends differently to achieve the required length with same feel.

  8. geohogan

    Jul 15, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    “long and upright”?
    If longer, wouldnt it be logical to flatten the lie angle?

    Dont golfers know by now that upright golf swings take a toll
    on the body? After Tiger swung at his best in 2000
    the gurus took his swing upright and we see the result
    in damaged knees and lower back.
    Drop into the Slot and Turn..
    like Tiger in 2000, Ben Hogan and the G.O.A.T, Jack Nicklaus.

    • Forged MB

      Jul 17, 2020 at 10:13 am

      You think that swinging a shorter club (which typically means more static weight as well) while bent over more to accommodate that is easier on the body and less injury prone? I can’t think of anything worse for your back than trying to bend and turn and a high rate of speed.

      A bit anecdotal, but I rarely hear of baseball players having lower back issues yet for golfers back problems are quite common. Granted the swings are on different planes, but the posture and orientation of the spine are quite different between the two while swinging with great amounts of force. I’ll take the golf swing with the more upright posture and increased extension all day long personally over the tilted and increased side bend move that is being taught by so many.

      • geohogan

        Jul 18, 2020 at 9:56 am

        IMO my hands want the butt of the club to be the same height from the ground for every club.

        If the shaft is shorter or longer the lie angle is changed so hands on every club is swung from the same height from the ground.

        Changing the swing (more upright) to adjust to a golf club
        is going to lead to injury, IMO.

      • geohogan

        Jul 19, 2020 at 8:27 am

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bUvU4gH1GI

        Babe Ruth, arguably the best baseball swing with plane of the swing mimicking the hips, much like Ben Hogans swing, so called flat swing.

        Its no wonder baseball doesnt seem to have the knee and back problems golfers experience with upright swings.

  9. Mark Brooks

    Jul 15, 2020 at 4:45 pm

    An inch longer golf club will not have the same “flex” or CPM reading.
    The stiffest section of the vast majority of shafts is in the butt section, effectively there is an inch longer section remaining on the butt end of the shaft at an inch longer provided no tip trimming was done. If the swing weight was indeed adjusted to match the swing weight of the shorter club, the longer club should be stiffer by any measure of “flex”. Allowing the club to just “naturally “ move to a heavier swing weight will generally make that longer, now heavier swing weight club “play” and measure as the softer or more flexible of the two clubs.
    The longer shaft is simply easier to bend than the shorter one with equal weight on both ends. The more length added the more dramatic the change. Conversely, a 1/4 inch change will yield very little change in “feel” or performance.
    The golf shaft manufacturer’s employ many brilliant scientists and inventors, they design their shafts to perform the best within a reasonable set of parameters, including overall club length. When you stray too far outside designed for parameters, you’re essentially on your own. Hope this helps out !

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19th Hole

Vincenzi’s 2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans betting preview

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The PGA TOUR heads to New Orleans to play the 2023 Zurich Classic of New Orleans. In a welcome change from the usual stroke play, the Zurich Classic is a team event. On Thursday and Saturday, the teams play best ball, and on Friday and Sunday the teams play alternate shot.

TPC Louisiana is a par 72 that measures 7,425 yards. The course features some short par 4s and plenty of water and bunkers, which makes for a lot of exciting risk/reward scenarios for competitors. Pete Dye designed the course in 2004 specifically for the Zurich Classic, although the event didn’t make its debut until 2007 because of Hurricane Katrina.

Coming off of the Masters and a signature event in consecutive weeks, the field this week is a step down, and understandably so. Many of the world’s top players will be using this time to rest after a busy stretch.

However, there are some interesting teams this season with some stars making surprise appearances in the team event. Some notable teams include Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele, Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry, Collin Morikawa and Kurt Kitayama, Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala as well as a few Canadian teams, Nick Taylor and Adam Hadwin and Taylor Pendrith and Corey Conners.

Past Winners at TPC Louisiana

  • 2023: Riley/Hardy (-30)
  • 2022: Cantlay/Schauffele (-29)
  • 2021: Leishman/Smith (-20)
  • 2019: Palmer/Rahm (-26)
  • 2018: Horschel/Piercy (-22)
  • 2017: Blixt/Smith (-27)

2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans Picks

Tom Hoge/Maverick McNealy +2500 (DraftKings)

Tom Hoge is coming off of a solid T18 finish at the RBC Heritage and finished T13 at last year’s Zurich Classic alongside Harris English.

This season, Hoge is having one of his best years on Tour in terms of Strokes Gained: Approach. In his last 24 rounds, the only player to top him on the category is Scottie Scheffler. Hoge has been solid on Pete Dye designs, ranking 28th in the field over his past 36 rounds.

McNealy is also having a solid season. He’s finished T6 at the Waste Management Phoenix Open and T9 at the PLAYERS Championship. He recently started working with world renowned swing coach, Butch Harmon, and its seemingly paid dividends in 2024.

Keith Mitchell/Joel Dahmen +4000 (DraftKings)

Keith Mitchell is having a fantastic season, finishing in the top-20 of five of his past seven starts on Tour. Most recently, Mitchell finished T14 at the Valero Texas Open and gained a whopping 6.0 strokes off the tee. He finished 6th at last year’s Zurich Classic.

Joel Dahmen is having a resurgent year and has been dialed in with his irons. He also has a T11 finish at the PLAYERS Championship at TPC Sawgrass which is another Pete Dye track. With Mitchell’s length and Dahmen’s ability to put it close with his short irons, the Mitchell/Dahmen combination will be dangerous this week.

Taylor Moore/Matt NeSmith +6500 (DraftKings)

Taylor Moore has quickly developed into one of the more consistent players on Tour. He’s finished in the top-20 in three of his past four starts, including a very impressive showing at The Masters, finishing T20. He’s also finished T4 at this event in consecutive seasons alongside Matt NeSmith.

NeSmith isn’t having a great 2024, but has seemed to elevate his game in this format. He finished T26 at Pete Dye’s TPC Sawgrass, which gives the 30-year-old something to build off of. NeSmith is also a great putter on Bermudagrass, which could help elevate Moore’s ball striking prowess.

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19th Hole

Vincenzi’s 2024 LIV Adelaide betting preview: Cam Smith ready for big week down under

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After having four of the top twelve players on the leaderboard at The Masters, LIV Golf is set for their fifth event of the season: LIV Adelaide. 

For both LIV fans and golf fans in Australia, LIV Adelaide is one of the most anticipated events of the year. With 35,000 people expected to attend each day of the tournament, the Grange Golf Club will be crawling with fans who are passionate about the sport of golf. The 12th hole, better known as “the watering hole”, is sure to have the rowdiest of the fans cheering after a long day of drinking some Leishman Lager.  

The Grange Golf Club is a par-72 that measures 6,946 yards. The course features minimal resistance, as golfers went extremely low last season. In 2023, Talor Gooch shot consecutive rounds of 62 on Thursday and Friday, giving himself a gigantic cushion heading into championship Sunday. Things got tight for a while, but in the end, the Oklahoma State product was able to hold off The Crushers’ Anirban Lahiri for a three-shot victory. 

The Four Aces won the team competition with the Range Goats finishing second. 

*All Images Courtesy of LIV Golf*

Past Winners at LIV Adelaide

  • 2023: Talor Gooch (-19)

Stat Leaders Through LIV Miami

Green in Regulation

  1. Richard Bland
  2. Jon Rahm
  3. Paul Casey

Fairways Hit

  1. Abraham Ancer
  2. Graeme McDowell
  3. Henrik Stenson

Driving Distance

  1. Bryson DeChambeau
  2. Joaquin Niemann
  3. Dean Burmester

Putting

  1. Cameron Smith
  2. Louis Oosthuizen
  3. Matt Jones

2024 LIV Adelaide Picks

Cameron Smith +1400 (DraftKings)

When I pulled up the odds for LIV Adelaide, I was more than a little surprised to see multiple golfers listed ahead of Cameron Smith on the betting board. A few starts ago, Cam finished runner-up at LIV Hong Kong, which is a golf course that absolutely suits his eye. Augusta National in another course that Smith could roll out of bed and finish in the top-ten at, and he did so two weeks ago at The Masters, finishing T6.

At Augusta, he gained strokes on the field on approach, off the tee (slightly), and of course, around the green and putting. Smith able to get in the mix at a major championship despite coming into the week feeling under the weather tells me that his game is once again rounding into form.

The Grange Golf Club is another course that undoubtedly suits the Australian. Smith is obviously incredibly comfortable playing in front of the Aussie faithful and has won three Australian PGA Championship’s. The course is very short and will allow Smith to play conservative off the tee, mitigating his most glaring weakness. With birdies available all over the golf course, there’s a chance the event turns into a putting contest, and there’s no one on the planet I’d rather have in one of those than Cam Smith.

Louis Oosthuizen +2200 (DraftKings)

Louis Oosthuizen has simply been one of the best players on LIV in the 2024 seas0n. The South African has finished in the top-10 on the LIV leaderboard in three of his five starts, with his best coming in Jeddah, where he finished T2. Perhaps more impressively, Oosthuizen finished T7 at LIV Miami, which took place at Doral’s “Blue Monster”, an absolutely massive golf course. Given that Louis is on the shorter side in terms of distance off the tee, his ability to play well in Miami shows how dialed he is with the irons this season.

In addition to the LIV finishes, Oosthuizen won back-to-back starts on the DP World Tour in December at the Alfred Dunhill Championship and the Mauritus Open. He also finished runner-up at the end of February in the International Series Oman. The 41-year-old has been one of the most consistent performers of 2024, regardless of tour.

For the season, Louis ranks 4th on LIV in birdies made, T9 in fairways hit and first in putting. He ranks 32nd in driving distance, but that won’t be an issue at this short course. Last season, he finished T11 at the event, but was in decent position going into the final round but fell back after shooting 70 while the rest of the field went low. This season, Oosthuizen comes into the event in peak form, and the course should be a perfect fit for his smooth swing and hot putter this week.

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Opinion & Analysis

The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work? Part 1

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Of all the clubs in our bags, wedges are almost always the simplest in construction and, therefore, the easiest to analyze what might make one work differently from another if you know what to look for.

Wedges are a lot less mysterious than drivers, of course, as the major brands are working with a lot of “pixie dust” inside these modern marvels. That’s carrying over more to irons now, with so many new models featuring internal multi-material technologies, and almost all of them having a “badge” or insert in the back to allow more complex graphics while hiding the actual distribution of mass.

But when it comes to wedges, most on the market today are still single pieces of molded steel, either cast or forged into that shape. So, if you look closely at where the mass is distributed, it’s pretty clear how that wedge is going to perform.

To start, because of their wider soles, the majority of the mass of almost any wedge is along the bottom third of the clubhead. So, the best wedge shots are always those hit between the 2nd and 5th grooves so that more mass is directly behind that impact. Elite tour professionals practice incessantly to learn to do that consistently, wearing out a spot about the size of a penny right there. If impact moves higher than that, the face is dramatically thinner, so smash factor is compromised significantly, which reduces the overall distance the ball will fly.

Every one of us, tour players included, knows that maddening shot that we feel a bit high on the face and it doesn’t go anywhere, it’s not your fault.

If your wedges show a wear pattern the size of a silver dollar, and centered above the 3rd or 4th groove, you are not getting anywhere near the same performance from shot to shot. Robot testing proves impact even two to three grooves higher in the face can cause distance loss of up to 35 to 55 feet with modern ‘tour design’ wedges.

In addition, as impact moves above the center of mass, the golf club principle of gear effect causes the ball to fly higher with less spin. Think of modern drivers for a minute. The “holy grail” of driving is high launch and low spin, and the driver engineers are pulling out all stops to get the mass as low in the clubhead as possible to optimize this combination.

Where is all the mass in your wedges? Low. So, disregarding the higher lofts, wedges “want” to launch the ball high with low spin – exactly the opposite of what good wedge play requires penetrating ball flight with high spin.

While almost all major brand wedges have begun putting a tiny bit more thickness in the top portion of the clubhead, conventional and modern ‘tour design’ wedges perform pretty much like they always have. Elite players learn to hit those crisp, spinny penetrating wedge shots by spending lots of practice time learning to consistently make contact low in the face.

So, what about grooves and face texture?

Grooves on any club can only do so much, and no one has any material advantage here. The USGA tightly defines what we manufacturers can do with grooves and face texture, and modern manufacturing techniques allow all of us to push those limits ever closer. And we all do. End of story.

Then there’s the topic of bounce and grinds, the most complex and confusing part of the wedge formula. Many top brands offer a complex array of sole configurations, all of them admittedly specialized to a particular kind of lie or turf conditions, and/or a particular divot pattern.

But if you don’t play the same turf all the time, and make the same size divot on every swing, how would you ever figure this out?

The only way is to take any wedge you are considering and play it a few rounds, hitting all the shots you face and observing the results. There’s simply no other way.

So, hopefully this will inspire a lively conversation in our comments section, and I’ll chime in to answer any questions you might have.

And next week, I’ll dive into the rest of the wedge formula. Yes, shafts, grips and specifications are essential, too.

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