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GolfWRX Insider: The real story of Tiger’s Titleist 681T irons

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The speculation around these irons (and every Tiger Woods iron thereafter) has been just shy of comical. Anything from “Mizunos stamped with different OEM logos” to “Miura secretly forging them in a cave full of kryptonite and fairy dust.”

It’s all entertaining, but in the end, a good conspiracy theory is typically just that: a theory.

I thought it was a good time to set the record straight—beyond doing it on my podcast over a year ago—with the man who was in the middle of it: Larry Bobka, VP of Golf Club Promotion during that time.


JW: How did the process begin, and specifically what was Tiger looking for?

LB: I was just finishing up my project with Davis and was asked if I could lend a hand with Tiger. Terry McCabe, VP of R&D, had few prototypes going, so there had been some conversations with Tiger before me. I went down to Isleworth, met with Butch and Tiger, and we discussed his current set…what he liked, didn’t like, and what would make a Titleist set better.

JW: What inspirations did you take from older clubs and how much did the design of his Mizuno irons influence the design?

LB: Having worked with players at Wilson (mentored by Bob Mendralla), I felt confident that we could make him a great set of clubs. His Mizuno set was important from a standpoint of watching ball flight and turf interaction. They make really good irons. Tiger had sent me a set of old Hogan Apex 1973 irons, as well, that had a lot more camber in the sole. I added a bit more…one of the tweaks added to the 681 forgings.

JW: How many different prototypes were made until you landed on the 681?

LB: Terry had made Tiger a couple of 5-iron prototypes. I left Isleworth with a simple plan: make Tiger three identical sets and let him choose the best 2, 3, 4-iron, etc. down through the bag—old school club making I learned from Bob Mendrella

JW: Like his P7TW, the 681 had a phase 1 that he put into play. The 1998/1999 model was a touch different than the 681, can you explain those a bit?

LB: His original sets were made from old Titleist forgings made by Hoffman Products (McCabe Design pictured below) and some blank forgings from Endo. After he liked the irons, we tooled up the 681’s at Endo.

 

JW: How much bounce did he like in his irons?

LB: If you look at the stock 681’s, they have a fair amount of bounce. His long irons are weaker than standard loft, which gave him more bounce in the 2- 5-irons.

JW: What older Titleist blades closest resemble the Tiger Iron?

LB: Titleist Tour Model (Box Blade). That’s what inspired his 5-PW.

JW: What was testing like—with no launch data?

LB: Old school club making. As Toney Penna told me once: look, listen, and copy—look at ball flight, turf interaction, listen to what the player says and doesn’t say, copy what’s in your head. We did have the Titleist Launch Monitor later when he came to Oceanside just confirm ball flight.

JW: Once and for all, who forged the Tiger Titleist irons?

LB: We did in Carlsbad from Hoffman and Endo forgings. Miura made a limited edition (pictured below) for Titleist Japan, but he never used them.

JW: Did he ever consider cavity backs at all?

LB: No, he hit Davis’ cavity forgings (below) a couple of times on the range at events.

681T (retail) specs below. All with True Temper Dynamic Gold X100 shafts tipped 1/4 inch.

Topic closed. If Larry Bobka doesn’t know, nobody does.

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17 Comments

17 Comments

  1. stanley

    May 1, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    sometimes you wonder if tiger is going to spill all the beans after he retires or something. endo? miura? what is it?

  2. Steve

    Apr 22, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    So who made the production 681’s? Endo? I’ve got some Custom Grinds that I rather enjoy.

  3. Cory

    Apr 19, 2020 at 10:15 am

    Looking at the lofts he is playing, they are the same loft set up that guys on tour are still playing. Just will different numbers stamped on the heads.

  4. Randy Ball

    Apr 18, 2020 at 1:10 pm

    Titleist put out some beauties in early 2000’s. They had Phil 731pm, 681,690,680’s. Not bad when your staff was Tiger, Phil, Duval, Love, Adam Scott, and Ernie Els.

  5. Paul

    Apr 18, 2020 at 8:39 am

    So it’s mock conspiracy theories and then admit to conspiracies? Got it.

  6. the dude

    Apr 17, 2020 at 3:16 pm

    uhhh…kinda breezed over those cavity back’s….like to see them!

    • The Lefty

      Apr 17, 2020 at 11:54 pm

      Ummm yeah. Can we get the next topic on those Davis cavity backs, never heard of nor seen those. Where they been my whole life? Titleist put out some sneaky good iron sets for Phil (Titleist PM731) and Tiger in early 2000’s. At one point they had Tiger, Phil, Ernie, Davis, Duval all gaming their irons and winning tournaments.

  7. Odnamra

    Apr 17, 2020 at 3:07 pm

    LMAO so it was ENDO….mic drop.

    All yall mfs who have built up the MIURA mystique been lyin to everybody…

    I bet Miura-san is very grateful to all of you.

    • dat

      Apr 17, 2020 at 9:22 pm

      Preach!

    • Paulo

      Apr 18, 2020 at 4:08 am

      I’m pretty sure it’s been known / suspected for a while tigers irons were endo forgings. Miura does some other guys but tiger was always endo. What makes the debate pointless though is 99.9999999% of golfers couldn’t tell the difference between an iron forged by Miura v the same iron shape cast by some back yard club maker. I really think people just don’t grasp the level of feel the worlds best have. We are not the worlds best

  8. Rascal

    Apr 17, 2020 at 12:03 pm

    First story in a long time I clicked on something above “lol”!

  9. Dyson Bochambeau

    Apr 17, 2020 at 10:30 am

    The P790TI 7 iron has the same loft as tigers 5 iron

  10. Gunter Eisenberg

    Apr 17, 2020 at 9:56 am

    Please have this permanently pinned on the front page of golfwrx.com to end the speculation for now and for the future.

  11. Brandon

    Apr 17, 2020 at 9:41 am

    Is Hoffman still in business?

    • Charlie

      Apr 17, 2020 at 2:43 pm

      He closed his doors in early 2000’s. Made some great irons over the years though. Scratch were the last guys to do something similar in USA.

  12. MBA-J

    Apr 17, 2020 at 9:21 am

    Grand opening, grand closing. Great job getting down to the bottom of this. Top marks.

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Whats in the Bag

Chesson Hadley WITB 2024 (March)

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Driver: Titleist TSR3 (10 degrees, D1 SureFit setting)
Shaft: Mitsubishi Diamana D+ 70 TX

3-wood: Titleist TSR2+ (14.5 degrees, A1 SureFit setting)
Shaft: Mitsubishi Diamana D+ 80 TX

Irons: Titleist T200 (3), Titleist 620 CB (4, 5), Titleist 620 MB (6-PW)
Shafts: Graphite Design Tour AD DI 105 X (3), True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 (4-PW)

Wedges: Titleist Vokey Design SM10 (52-12F, 56-14F), WedgeWorks (60-K)
Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400

Putter: Odyssey White Hot OG 2-Ball
Grip: Odyssey

Grips: Golf Pride Tour Velvet

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

Check out more in-hand photos Chesson Hadley’s clubs here.

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Whats in the Bag

Gary Woodland WITB 2024 (March)

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Driver: Cobra Darkspeed X (8 degrees)
Shaft: Accra TZ5 70 M5

  • The white circle that appears at the top of the face a removable sticker that’s used for launch monitor tracking, and Woodland removes it for competition!

3-wood: Cobra Darkspeed X (14 degrees)
Shaft: Accra TZ5 GW100 Prototype

7-wood: Cobra LTDx LS prototype (20 degrees)
Shaft: Accra TZ5 GW100 Prototype

Irons: Wilson Staff (18 degrees), Cobra King MB (4-PW)
Shafts: KBS Tour C-Taper Limited X

Wedges: Cobra SB (48), Titleist Vokey Design SM10 (52-08F, 56-14F), Cobra King (60)
Shafts: KBS Tour C-Taper Limited X (48 degrees), KBS Tour V-Ten 125

Putter: Scotty Cameron T-5 Proto
Grip: SuperStroke Zenergy Tour 3.0P

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

Grips: Golf Pride Tour Velvet Cord

See more in-hand photos of Gary Woodland’s WITB in the forums.

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Equipment

Q&A: Martin Trainer on his Bobby Grace “Greg Chalmers” putter, 6.5-degree driver, and “butter knife” 2-iron

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As unbiasedly as I can put it, Martin Trainer has one of the coolest club setups in professional golf. (At some point soon, I’ll put together a top-10 list of “coolest club setups on Tour,” but I know that Trainer will be in the top-10)

What a lineup. He plays a 6.5-degree Wilson prototype driver, a 13-degree Wilson prototype 3-wood, a true blade Wilson Staff Model 2-iron, and a Bobby Grace “Greg Chalmers Commemorative” putter!

 

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I mean, look at this 2-iron from address…

To quote the great author R.L. Stine: “Goosebumps.”

On Wednesday at the 2024 Texas Children’s Houston Open, I caught up with Trainer to learn more about his bag setup.

Here’s what he had to say:

You have the Internet going crazy over your bag setup, and your putter. Where’d you pick the Bobby Grace-Greg Chalmers putter up? How long have you had it?

MT: This was from when Bobby Grace came to my course in California: Cal Club. And for whatever reason, they just started having them in the shop. So then I took my buddy’s, started using it, and made, like, a million putts in a row, which is how every putter story begins, I guess.

And then, I bought a couple of my own, used it for years, got to the Tour with it, won on Tour with it (the 2019 Puerto Rico Open). Then, about a year later, started using another putter, did that for a couple years, but now it’s back in the bag.

When did it come back in the bag?

MT: December of this past year. So a few months ago.

What year would you say was the first time you threw that in the bag, or, like, when you bought it?

MT: God…Probably, 2016, maybe? 2018?

Do you remember how much you paid for it?

MT: I don’t know, actually. Maybe $100-150 bucks or something. I think that’s the only golf club I’ve bought between high school and now. Well, two, since I bought two of them.

The driver is interesting, too. What went into the prototyping process?

MT: That was a version of the current driver, but it was the prototype that they first came out with for Tour guys to try. And for whatever reason, I just never switched out to the new one.

It’s just 6.5 degrees, right?

MT: Yeah. Very low loft, yeah.

What kind of ball speed do you have with that these days?

MT: Like high 170’s.

Yeah, that’ll work. And then a 2-iron blade? We’re seeing fewer and fewer of those out here.

MT: Yeah. The butter knife.

Very cool thing to have in the bag. Have you done any testing with driving irons? 

MT: Yeah, I used to have a thicker one, but it was a little offset, and I never hit it that well. And then finally, I started messing around with the butter knife. And I remember the first time I looked down at it, I was terrified. And then I ended up getting used to it, putting it in play, and it’s been in place since. It’s a pretty good club for me.

How far do you carry that? 

MT: Like 235.

A good little wind club, I’m sure.

MTL Yeah, exactly. I can hit it very low. It’s great.

I love it. You have people shook looking at that. Thanks for the time, man. 

MT: Absolutely.

To see more photos and discussion of Trainer’s bag, click here.

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