In his most recent 19th Hole podcast, Michael Williams asked Jack Nicklaus for his thoughts on U.S. Open setups in general and what transpired at Shinnecock in particular.

His response is noteworthy because, well, he’s Jack Nicklaus, and because his take is a fresh one in a discussion that has grown predictable and largely played out.

Nicklaus said, “I grew up playing USGA golf courses. I loved the way the USGA sets up golf courses. When you’re a junior, they set it up at the junior level…amateur set up on the amateur level, ladies set up on the ladies level and then the Open gets set up on the most difficult. That’s how I learned to play golf. That’s why majors were so important to me. And to take the U.S. Open and not make it…the toughest and the most difficult, to me, you’re making it too much like another tournament. And that’s not what I really wanted to see.”

“Now, did they set up Shinnecock poorly? No. I don’t think they set it up poorly at all. I think Mike Davis did a pretty darn good job of it. I just think that because course conditioning has changed so much, and they have courses just on the edge…the setup lends itself–you saw scores on Saturday and Sunday in the mid 60s in the morning and the mid 70s in the afternoon…I don’t think they really wanted that.”

“I think if you back to Shinnecock again, I think the wise thing would be to redo the greens…not change them…but there’s nothing under those greens other than what nature had there….but with the way they do things today, that lends itself to not being able to be controlled. And they could redo those greens exactly as they are now and control the moisture level on those greens, then the setup that they had would work fine, and work fine in the morning and the afternoon.”

The four-time U.S. Open winner added that he didn’t expect the membership at Shinnecock to approve anything so rash, and that he was merely making a suggestion should the tournament return to the Southampton course that reworking the greens could make the course “fair in the morning and fair in the afternoon.”

As for exactly what method of green rebuilding Nicklaus is proposing (presumably some reworking of soil and drainage), we’re not sure. However, his suggestion remains an interesting one.

He also added

“The greens were great in the morning, they just got away in the afternoon. When you’ve got starting times from…7:30 to 3:30…a lot of things are going to happen.”

Nicklaus added that the USGA should strive to offer players the same course in the morning and the afternoon to give everyone a “fair chance to compete.”

The Golden Bear also touched quickly on Phil Mickelson’s rules violation.

“Phil came back…and said, ‘I just lost it,’ which is probably what he should have said to begin with.”

However, Nicklaus suggested Mickelson has earned the right to be cut some slack and said all golfers can relate to his frustration.

Nicklaus also discussed his charity work on the pod, and Michael Williams has another great guest in the episode: golf fitness and flexibility expert, Roger Fredericks, who’s well worth listening to.

Check it out below, and let us know what you think about the 18-time major champion’s remarks.