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Bethpage Black: How hard is it?

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I had the thrill of playing the Bethpage Black with my “A” foursome just before the 2009 U.S. Open. Lucky for us the very back tees were covered for protection, but to get the full experience we played as far back as allowed. Our low single-digit handicap group finished beaten and battered by one of the most relentlessly difficult courses that WE had ever played. No one broke 80, but thankfully no one broke into the 90s either.

One of my mates summed it up perfectly: “I have never played so many par-5 holes in my life!” he said. 

Bethpage Black is rated as the 12th most difficult of the 47 courses played by the PGA Tour so far in 2016. This rating is based upon the average score relative to par. Oakmont is 1st at 3.56 strokes over par, while Bethpage was a mere +0.749 strokes over its par of 71. For perspective, only 21 PGA Tour courses had a scoring average over par. Nos. 22-47 all gave up something to par and the Plantation Course at Kapalua, the easiest, had an average score of -3.195 strokes below its par of 73.

The 4th hole at Bethpage Black. (David W. Leindecker/Shutterstock.com)

The 4th hole at Bethpage Black (David W. Leindecker/Shutterstock.com)

The Black was not a lost ball kind of hard for the Tour. The long fescue grass makes it a lost-ball course for the rest of us, but Tour players enjoy a cadre of volunteers carefully watching errant drives and quickly marking their position with small flags. There is also very little water at Bethpage Black.

So what is so hard about it?

To illustrate my points, I will compare the recent performance for the field of the 2016 Barclays to the average of all the 2016 PGA Tour events to date in the graph below. This comparison is not exactly apples to apples, as the Barclays field — the first of the FedExCup Playoffs events — is the best 125 players on Tour.

How_hard_is_Bethpage_Black

Length

At 7,468 yards, Bethpage Black is 227 yards longer than the average course played on Tour this year. This naturally caused the length of the average approach shot to be greater. Note in the graph the decrease in the percentage of 151-175 yard approach attempts and the increase in the ranges outside 176 yards.

Design

The A. W. Tillinghast signature cross bunkers require a decision off every tee as to how much to bite off. Then precise execution is needed to avoid them. The best players in the world found the fairway sand 30 percent more frequently than is usual on Tour, and their scores from these bunkers were 50 percent higher (+0.3 strokes vs. +0.2 strokes).

Fescue

A ball in the fescue was in many cases a driving error requiring an advancement to return to normal play. In ShotByShot.com terminology, this is referred to as a No Shot Driving Error. These unfortunate results were 77 percent more frequent than the 2016 Tour average, but the resulting score was only 3 percent higher.

Rough

The length of the rough, combined with the longer average distance of the shots, saw the approach accuracy fall by 25 percent (31.5 percent of shots successfully hit greens vs. the 41.5 percent average of the 2016 season) and the resulting score from the rough doubled (+0.21 strokes vs. +0.11 strokes). This difference was no doubt exacerbated by the number of elevated greens. It is much more difficult to hit and hold an elevated target from the rough.

While the short-game shots were slightly more difficult and the putting results slightly worse than the 2016 Tour averages to date, the real teeth of Bethpage Black is in the long game. This course should be on every single digit’s bucket list, and I highly recommend it. When you get the opportunity, I also recommend that you bring your A game, carefully choose the appropriate tees, bring an extra dose of patience and a capable and eager forecaddie.

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In 1989, Peter Sanders founded Golf Research Associates, LP, creating what is now referred to as Strokes Gained Analysis. His goal was to design and market a new standard of statistically based performance analysis programs using proprietary computer models. A departure from “traditional stats,” the program provided analysis with answers, supported by comparative data. In 2006, the company’s website, ShotByShot.com, was launched. It provides interactive, Strokes Gained analysis for individual golfers and more than 150 instructors and coaches that use the program to build and monitor their player groups. Peter has written, or contributed to, more than 60 articles in major golf publications including Golf Digest, Golf Magazine and Golf for Women. From 2007 through 2013, Peter was an exclusive contributor and Professional Advisor to Golf Digest and GolfDigest.com. Peter also works with PGA Tour players and their coaches to interpret the often confusing ShotLink data. Zach Johnson has been a client for nearly five years. More recently, Peter has teamed up with Smylie Kaufman’s swing coach, Tony Ruggiero, to help guide Smylie’s fast-rising career.

17 Comments

17 Comments

  1. Joey5Picks

    Sep 28, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    Score relative to par isn’t a good way to measure a course’s difficulty. Average score is. Take two courses with similar hazards, green speeds, etc. Course A is 6500 yards, par 72, the average score in a tournament was 73.5. Course B is also 6500 yards, par 71, average score of 73.5. Which is more difficult? They’re the same. It took an average of 73.5 strokes to complete 18 holes. The only difference between these two courses is a 480-yard hole is called a “par 5” on course A, but a “par 4” on course B.

    It’s always hysterical when players complain about 500-yard “par 4s” in the US Open. What’s the difference? It’s the same hole. Lowest score wins.

    Here’s a good read on the subject: http://www.golfdigest.com/story/when-an-easy-par-5-is-a-hard-par-4-and-its-the-same-hole

  2. Steven

    Sep 14, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    The Black is on my bucket list. Thanks for preparing me for a tough day. Maybe I should play some easier resort courses first . . .

  3. Smizzle troll

    Sep 13, 2016 at 7:41 am

    Please go away. You are only funny to yourself and your comments are distracting for these articles that people have taken time to post. I am sure that you will love that I commented about you because that is what trolls like you feed on but again, go find something else to do.

  4. Ronald Montesano

    Sep 11, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    That’s a bizarre angle in the first photo, of the 4th hole. No one would take that line. The hole is so different than portrayed by that image. Plus, it’s just a little bit lime, no? Dude went Photoshop-crazy on that one!

  5. 518TitleistX

    Sep 10, 2016 at 7:09 pm

    I played the black from the whites which played about 6850 yds on 7/31/16. I birdied 7,10,12,17 and 18 and shot 78. I’m currently a 4.7 cap trending to a 4.2. Not bad when considering I doubled 6 and tripled 13. I played 14 through 18 one under.

    • wheres the beef

      Sep 12, 2016 at 3:44 pm

      Play it from the blues and your 78 turns into a 87. 78 is respectable, but 6850 yds is not terribly long and that’s when the Black is not for the faint hearted.

  6. MD

    Sep 10, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    They need to restore the fairways to where they were before the US Open. There are bunkers now 10 yards in the rough. It would be a better course.

  7. Mac

    Sep 9, 2016 at 11:38 am

    Try playing the course in the rain or in the colder seasons. It’s almost impossible to play.
    It’s easier for the Tour Pros as they play in the summer time when it’s drier and they also cut the fairways way shorter than for the public, and as rightly pointed out, spotters find their deep rough balls

    • devilsadvocate

      Sep 10, 2016 at 9:57 am

      It rained when tiger won the US open there… Also tighter fairways are harder to hit because the ball rolls out into the rough more frequently

      • Mac

        Sep 10, 2016 at 11:52 am

        I think you got that mixed up with 2009 when Glover won, when they stopped play numerous times.
        But, if you look at the average scores for the Pros for both tournaments you’ll see the tremendously high scores.
        Eldrick just did what Eldrick was able to do back then

    • Jerry

      Sep 11, 2016 at 11:10 am

      I played at the end of April in 50* temps with rain and wind from the tees one set forward of the tips. Shooting an 85 that day made me feel like I robbed a bank! Early in the season the fatigue of walking without a caddy took its toll on me. I sincerely hope to play there again soon because at $130 for an out of state player for this level of a course is one of the best values in golf, if not the very best. Thanks to my work and the amount of travel that I do, I play at the best courses wherever I am, and I can stress enough how great of a course this is for any amount of money, let alone $130. The only way the value was better was that I expensed my round and my partners round because he is one of my best customers, and he had the time of his life!

  8. Greg V

    Sep 9, 2016 at 9:04 am

    The forward (Red) tees are listed at 6,223 yards. That’s all the Black that I need.

    • Michael Scott

      Sep 9, 2016 at 9:27 am

      THAT’S WHAT SHE SAID!!!

    • Smizzled

      Sep 9, 2016 at 10:23 am

      Greg, you should maybe work on hitting the ball farther.

      • gvogelsang

        Sep 9, 2016 at 7:35 pm

        For my age, I hit the ball far enough.

      • devilsadvocate

        Sep 10, 2016 at 10:00 am

        Wow that’s a disgusting thing to post … Do u feel a little bit better about yourself?

      • Smizzled

        Sep 10, 2016 at 12:20 pm

        Troll

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Courses

The best golf courses in Ireland

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For a tiny island with fewer than 10 million people, Ireland has an abundance of magnificent golf courses.

But which ones are the best?

The best golf courses in Ireland

Pinning down 10 to even 50 of Ireland’s best courses is a thankless task, with a country that boasts so many hidden gems along with world-renowned tracks. The island is split into four provinces—Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Ulster—and here I’ll highlight some courses you must visit in each region for anyone heading to the Emerald Isle.

Mount Juliet Golf Course, Kilkenny

C/o: @golfmountjuliet

Host of the 2021 Irish Open, the Jack Nicklaus designed golf course is undoubtedly one of the most beautiful in all of the country. With five lakes and over 80 bunkers, the challenging course measures over 7,200 yards and features a unique ‘bunker walled green’ protecting the pin on the 16th hole.

C/o: @golfmountjuliet

Speaking on the course while playing the 2002 WGC-American Express Championship, Tiger Woods said

“I think the golf course is absolutely gorgeous, the fairways are perfect, the greens are the best greens we’ve putter on all year, including the majors. These things are absolute pure.”

Druids Glen Golf Course, Wicklow

C/o: @brendanboyle79

You don’t get the nickname the ‘Augusta of Europe’ without being a little bit special, and Druids Glen is undoubtedly that. The perfectly manicured inland course boasts some of the most picturesque holes with each hole offering stunning backdrops.

C/o: @breandanboyle79

The course also offers up an incredible challenge. It helps to be a high-quality ball-striker, with the likes of Colin Montgomerie and Sergio Garcia winning titles when the course hosted professional events.

Ballybunion Golf Club, Kerry

C/o: @evanschiller

Founded in 1883, the Ballybunion Old Course lives up to its tag as ‘One of a kind’. Measuring 6,739 yards from the tips, the wonderful dunescape sets the scene for a true links challenge, with the golf course often touted as possessing the best back nine in the country.

C/o: @womensgolf

President Bill Clinton on Ballybunion

“I love Ballybunion. It’s perfectly Irish: beautiful, rough, and a lot like life — you get breaks you don’t deserve both ways. You just have to keep swinging and know it will all even out.”

Waterville Golf Links, Kerry

C/o: @kevinmarkham

The remote Waterville Golf Links is situated on a promontory surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean. With undulating fairways, the course sets out relatively flat on the front 9 with tall dunes welcoming players home for the back 9.

C/o: @greagolfholes

One of the most impressive and picturesque links courses that you will set your sights on that will instantly provide you with a mystic feel that only Ireland can provide.

Sam Snead on Waterville:

”The beautiful monster – one of the golfing wonders of the world.”

Rosappena Old Tom Morris Links, Donegal

C/o:@rosapenna1893

An incredible setting for a course that offers up a wonderful mix of a traditional and modern links feel. Measuring over 6,900 yards from the back tees, the course only offers up relief on the three par-fives.

C/o: @eigtravel

The course runs along Tramore beach overlooking Sheephaven Bay and offers up sensational views no matter what hole you are on during your round. Blustery conditions can turn this into a brutal links test.

Royal County Down

C/o: @eigtravel

Often cited as the best golf course in the country and even the world. Royal County Down offers up monstrous blind shots, several bunkers and glorious views. The ultimate links golf test.

C/o: @eigtravel

Rickie Fowler on Royal County Down:

”Royal County Down is my all-time favourite.”

Lahinch Golf Club, Clare

C/o: @greatgolfholes

Lahinch Golf Club is a step back in time golf course often compared to the Old Course of St. Andrews. The course offers up a quirky test wth a classic out and back layout, while providing stunning views of the Atlantic Ocean.

C/o: @vinnyfiorino

Phil Mickelson on Lahinch:

“Some of my fondest memories of great golfing holes in the world include the number four and five holes at Lahinch.”

Sligo Golf Club, Rosses Point, Sligo

C/o: @jmgolfcoach

Co. Sligo Golf Course features traditional links layout, designed by Harry Colt. The dune-covered landscape sets the scene for a course packed with undulations, elevated tees, and raised plateau greens for a stunning test of golf. The golf course is famed for its tremendous par 3s.

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The Colonial Experience

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Colonial Country Club in Fort Worth, Texas, is home to the longest-running non-major PGA Tour event held at one location. The course opened in 1936, and it’s been hosting the Invitational at Colonial, now called the Charles Schwab Challenge, every year since 1946.

It was the golfing home of Ben Hogan, five-time winner of the event, and it’s still where most of his trophies and accomplishments are housed. The 1941 U.S. Open was here and won by Craig Wood. The Players Championship was here in 1975 and the U.S. Women’s Open was here in 1991. Colonial, quite simply, is rich golf history in a town that is proud of where it came from. And you can feel the past as soon as you step foot on the grounds.

Walking through the gates towards the course, you are immediately hugged by a “wow” moment. There’s Mr. Hogan, his follow through forever posed, larger than life and overlooking the 18th hole. Also in view is a manually operated leaderboard, permanently tucked away inside the closing hole’s dogleg, reminding you subtly that you are about to play a Tour course. It’s up year-round, and as the tournament nears, Mr. Hogan’s name always appears in the first place position.

   

18th Hole

Down the steps and around the corner, past the caddie shack and old school bag room, is the starter house and number one tee box. And shadowing over the professional tees is the Wall of Champions, with every winning player’s name and score etched to watch your opening tee shot. Hogan’s name is there five times. Sam Snead. Arnold Palmer. Jack Nicklaus. Ben Crenshaw, Phil Mickelson and Lee Trevino all on there twice. Tom Watson. Sergio. Spieth.

Some courses are second shot courses, with approach shots being more demanding and more important than driving accuracy or distance. Some courses require length. At Colonial, you need both. That’s why the list of past winners is so impressive on the Wall of Champions. You can’t just drive or putt your way to a win at Colonial. You have to be solid in every aspect of the game. You have to earn it and deserve it. You have to be a shotmaker.

Number One Tee

Par 5 1st Hole

Colonial was designed by Texan John Bredemus and well-known architect Perry Maxwell, who also designed Prairie Dunes in Kansas and Southern Hills in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It opened in 1936 and currently plays as a 7,209-yard par 70 that meanders along the banks of the Trinity River. The greens are bent grass, which at one point in time was an unheard of idea for a course in North Texas. Marvin Leonard, the club’s founder, was determined to build a world-class club in the region that could sustain bent grass. And he did it. Just five years after the club opened its doors, the 1941 United States Open was held in Fort Worth. Colonial was on the map and the Marvin Leonard dream had come true.

The course holds only two par 5’s, the first hole being one of them. A 565-yard dogleg right to a slight elevated green, getting home in two isn’t out of the question with a perfectly placed drive. But this introductory hole is the perfect way to start a round. Nothing too demanding. Get warmed up. The second hole, a short par 4, is no different. Start off easy to get some good holes under your belt.

And then you get to the Horrible Horseshoe.

Hole 3 Tee box

The third hole at Colonial is a 483-yard par 4 that plays even longer than that, due to the severe 90-degree dogleg left near your drive’s landing area. A straight 250-yard tee shot will put you in decent position away from trouble, but you still have 230 yards into a multi-tiered green. Longer hitters can try to cut the corner, protected by bunkers at the corner, but the landing area for that shot is so narrow that the reward is often not worth the risk. This is a tough hole.

Hole 4 Teebox

The fourth hole is a 220-yard par 3 from the men’s tees. But it tips out to 247 yards for the pros during tournament week. The green is elevated and often very firm, making it incredibly tough to stop a long iron or hybrid on the dance floor for even the best players in the world. This is a tough tough hole. Short is the safe play, though there is no easy up and down from the front, as the green is elevated to eye level and making most chip shots blind.

Hole 5 Tee box

Hole 5 Approach

Hole 5 Green

The fifth hole, ending the Horrible Horseshoe, is one of the finest and toughest holes in golf. Your tee shot dog legs just enough to the right to require a left-to-right ball flight. Something to make you think about standing over your ball. Anything off the tee that is too straight or has any right to left movement is going to cross through the fairway and into an oak tree-lined ditch with rough high enough to swallow a ball for weeks. If you start in the ditch, you finish in the ditch. So don’t miss left.

Don’t miss right either. Anything with too much fade or slice action is going into the Trinity River, which borders this hole on the right all the way to the green. And if you can somehow manage to find the fairway, you’re still a long way from home as this is a 481-yard par 4 leading to a well-bunkered green. This is a tough, tough, tough hole.

If you can get through these three holes, arguably the hardest three-hole stretch on tour, unscathed, you’ve done something.

Hole 6 Teebox

The rest of the front nine is easy, in comparison to the horseshoe, but by no means simple. Six and seven are wonderfully partnered par fours, running parallel in opposite directions. The par 3 8th hole brings the Trinity River back into view, but the water itself is not a real threat. The hole plays 194 yards from the back tees to a three-tiered green. The safe play is always aiming to the middle of the green and letting the putter do the rest of the work. Missing this green completely will not likely result in par, as deep bunkering and wide trees protect on all sides.

The closing hole of the front nine requires a precise tee ball between large bunkers on both sides of the fairway. The green is tucked behind a scenic pond and in front of the starter’s house and number one tee box. Any miss, left or right off the tee, will most likely force a layup in front of the water. But if you do have a shot at the green, make sure you don’t miss short.

From nine green, you can see much of the front, hopefully recalling fond memories of the first half of your round. Thankfully, not much of the horrible horseshoe is in view…let’s keep that in the past.

9th Green and Fairway

That back nine at Colonial is an absolute blast. The two par 3’s on this side are both world-class holes, 13 being the course’s signature. The lone par 5, hole 11, is a straightaway 635-yard-long mammoth with a troublesome creek along the entire right side.

But it all starts with the absolutely tremendous 10th hole. Only 408 yards from the tips, the hole plays tricks on the eyes. From the tee, it looks like you have plenty of room off on the right, but course knowledge can go a long way on this hole. You absolutely have to keep your tee ball hugging the left side of this fairway, which feels like a horrifying proposition while standing over the ball. The tee box falls off into the water, which doubles as approach shot hazard on nearby 18. Driver just isn’t the club here, though it feels like it should be. Any miss slightly right is going to be shielded from the green from overhanging trees and a deceptive angle.

Hole 10 tee box

View of 18 green from 10 fairway

10 green with fairway behind

The back nine has a bit more undulation than the front. The formerly brush-covered Trinity River land still has plenty of mature foliage, mostly oaks, pecans, and cottonwood trees,  to maintain the feel of an old-school course. It is truly a classic layout in every sense of the phrase. The bent grass greens, made famous by Mr. Leonard’s passionate pursuit, are pure most of the year, though fans are erected during the Summer months to keep them cool.

Hole 12 tee box

13 tee, par 3 over the Trinity

The par-3 13th hole is a tournament spectator favorite. 190 yards from the pro tees and 171 from the men’s, this hole is as beautiful as it is treacherous. The further you miss right, the more carry you’ll need to land safely. During tournament week, the professional caddies are in on a long-standing spectator event: the caddie races. Fan’s surrounding the green pick a player’s caddie to root for, then they cheer (and maybe even gamble) for that caddie to reach the green first. I’ve seen all-out sprint races and slow walk dramatic finishes alike. First foot to touch the green wins, and the caddies are hilarious about it. They eat it up.

14 approach

15 green

The home stretch at Colonial is designed for drama. The 16th, a par 3, is another stunner. 185 yards over creeks and ponds to the most difficult green complex on the course. Only two tiers, but a pretty drastic climb from front left to top right. And the Sunday pin placement, top right, has caused more heartburn than any other spot on the track. Miss too far right and you’re out of bounds and in the Colonial parking lot. There is a great patio just beyond the 16th green where members can sit to watch the approach shots.

Par 3 16th

17 green with fairway behind

17 is a strategic short par 4, where iron is the safe play off the tee. A dogleg right, the tee shot is more about angles and accuracy than length. Miss too far right and your approach into the green is dead, blocked by trees. A proper drive on the left middle of this fairway sets up a great chance for birdie. And at Colonial, you need to take advantage of these holes. Especially with 18 coming up.

The closing hole is a classic. Now you need a long draw off the tee to this 441-yard dogleg left. The fairway slopes right to left as well, so a shot on the right side here usually ends up in a wonderful position. The green is slightly elevated and guarded by incredibly deep bunkers short and on both sides. With that sloping fairway, the approach is generally a side-hill lie that works the ball left. And remember, that pond we saw on the 10th fairway is very much in play here. Any miss left and you are wet.

18 tee

18 approach

As if the water left isn’t enough pressure, the clubhouse is right there watching, typically bustling with activity and eyes on your shot. Plus, there is Mr. Hogan’s statue, always there to intimidate golfers as they walk off the green to end their round. The house that Hogan built.

Which is a perfect reminder to head inside the clubhouse for cocktail and tour around the Hogan Room. Located upstairs near the main entrance, this small room could take an hour or two of your time if you aren’t careful. Major championship trophies, scorecards, Mr. Hogan’s locker, the famous Merion flagpin, the Ryder Cup. It is a genuine thrill to walk through.

Downstairs, connected to the pro shop, is another Hogan tribute…the man’s personal office sits untouched and exactly how he kept it. It’s a bit like looking into the Oval office for golf nerds.

 

   

The rest of the clubhouse is a tribute to not only Mr. Hogan, but the history of the tournament itself. Every past champion is recognized with a photo of him holding the trophy, proudly wearing the Colonial plaid jacket, and displayed next to a golf club they used to accomplish the win, donated to Colonial. Clubs pulled from the bag of every past champion…walking the halls of Colonial is like walking through the Golf Hall of Fame. History around every corner.

There is also a special tribute to Dan Jenkins. The Fort Worth native and original wild-man golf writer was inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame in 2012. Jenkins played golf at nearby TCU and was a beloved member at Colonial. He was also close friends with Mr. Hogan. The display holds all of Jenkins’ wonderful books, including Dead Solid Perfect, as well as his typewriter. A hero of mine, it’s hard not to walk by the Jenkins Tribute and stop to admire. Every time.

Playing a round at Colonial is a special experience. Still one of the finest golf courses in Texas, it remains the home of golf history in the Lone Star State. Golf Mecca for Hogan fans, the course has withstood the test of time. And the clubhouse itself, with all its history and charm, is worth the price of admission. I feel better about the future of golf knowing clubs like Colonial are out there, working hard to keep the past alive.

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What GolfWRXers are saying about Seminole and TaylorMade’s Charity Relief skins match

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@pgatour

In our forums, our members have been discussing Seminole and TaylorMade’s Charity Relief skins match. The course has received plenty of praise from our members, and WRXers have been sharing their thoughts on the event as a whole in our forums.

Here are a few posts from the thread, but make sure to check out the entire discussion and have your say at the link below.

  • tw_focus: “Amazing event all around, golf is back baby. RF played well, but he missed badly on the last shot while Rors was clutch, as always. As good as this event was, it’s just the undercard for next week The Match II. Can’t wait to see TW back!”
  • RainShadow: “Seminole looked beautiful. A course designed for strategy and nuance. Anyone know the individual scores? Rickie 66 maybe, Rory 69, DJ 69, Wolff 70? The players all looked a little rusty, Rory and Rickie looked like they’d played a bit recently though. Need to do more of these after this thing is over. More of carrying their own bags and reading their own putts………..Side note….DJ, go back to a blade putter.”
  • dcfas: “I enjoyed it. Thought it was interesting to see and hear some of the discussion on shots and breaks. Thought it was also interesting to see their performances without caddies, and while carrying bags. Also fascinated to have a “close up” look at Seminole. Added it to my bucket list of courses extremely unlikely I’ll ever get to play. Good cause. Thumbs up.”
  • Lark: “If they do this again, they should have two matches at the same time to avoid so much dead airtime. Have the winners play a one hole playoff for a final prize.”
  • Dave230: “Good concept and some good bits but to be nit-picking: Far too many ads, I know Americans are used to more ads than Europeans, but they hit their drives…ads….hit their second shots….ads. It’s just hard to watch. Too much intervention from the commentators, if the players have microphones on then let them speak and just leave it there, you don’t need to talk over everything. I prefer commentary that’s not afraid of dead space. The phone calls…the less said the better.. Just let it play, even if they’re walking, let us see them talking and the surroundings sometimes. Still manage to overproduce even in a restricted setting. Apart from that, grateful for golf to be on television again and well done to those involved.”

Entire Thread: “Seminole and TaylorMade’s Charity Relief skins match”

 

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