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Hunt's WITB, Update 2-8-17 (Betti, Miura, FS) on page 3!

Edel Golf Wishon Ping Mizuno Nippon

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#61 pitchinwedge

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 03:14 PM

Another question for you Richie... am I correct that it's better to match a calculated MOI figure (kg/cm squared) rather than the measured SW?  The reason I ask is because I've read +/-0.5 SW progression with 3/8" intervals; however, some of my results are 0.25 SW or less between some clubs.

FWIW, I don't have the MOI machine but I do have a SW scale.  So again I'm using a spreadsheet to estimate the MOI for all clubs.  Thanks!

Edit:  I was thinking about adding a counter weight to the short-irons for better balance (ie. 12g OptiVibe at 10" down the shaft in the PW) but seems like doing so will drastically reduce SW.  Something just doesn't seem right.  I'm open to any suggestions.

Here's a chart of the components I'm working with if it helps:

Not Balanced.png

Edited by pitchinwedge, 29 June 2016 - 06:45 PM.

917 D2 8.50* - Tensei CK Pro White 60
917 F2 13.5* - Rogue Max 70
816 H2 19.0* - D+ Plus 90
716 T-MB (3i, 4i) - Modus 120
716 CB (5-PW) - Modus 120
Hogan TK15 - 49, 55
Edel Deschutes

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#62 RichieHunt

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 10:13 PM

I don't like the swingweight methodology for this exact point.  If you add a counterweight or a heavier grip, the SW drops.  

I have applied counterweights to my clubs and measured the MOI and the MOI stays the same.  

I have not used Tour Lock Opti-Vibe counterweights.   These are counterweights that you can move more up-and-down the shaft in order to get the SW you want.  I've talked to some clubmakers that have used the Opti-Vibe and if you slide it down the shaft more (towards the club head), the MOI increases...slightly.  

MOI increases the most when you add weight to the head.  And it increases less when you add weight towards the butt end.

With counterweights, since they are rather small...all of the weight goes towards the butt and you're not going to increase the MOI by much.

With the Enlow Grips, my guess is that since there is so much weight added towards the mouth of the grip...that is more down the shaft and that's why the MOI increases by about 20-30 points.

I would suggest that you get an MOI machine.  I know they aren't cheap, but it will completely change your buying habits and understanding of equipment.  And in the end, it will help you find the best possible fit and you will likely save money in the end instead of being dissatisfied with equipment and purchasing new equipment.





RH

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#63 pitchinwedge

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 01:06 PM

Ok thanks again for your input Richie.  As you pointed out, the swingweight methodology seems to be misleading.  I was getting confused because the measured swingweights do not correlate well with my MOI calculations.  

Howard Jones (who seems to be a very reputable club builder), and number of others people on WRX, recommended the +/-0.5 SW progression with 3/8" intervals as a way to build a basic MOI matched set.  So, if I'm understanding this correctly now, they are suggesting the +/-0.5 SW progression as an alternative to estimating, calculating, or measuring actual MOI.  Since I've got good measurements for all my components, I think I should stick to the MOI calculation over measured SW.

As for balance, how noticeable do you think the difference will be within my set?  Doesn't seem like it will be bad between say the 6i and the 8i or 4i but perhaps another story when comparing 3i to PW?
917 D2 8.50* - Tensei CK Pro White 60
917 F2 13.5* - Rogue Max 70
816 H2 19.0* - D+ Plus 90
716 T-MB (3i, 4i) - Modus 120
716 CB (5-PW) - Modus 120
Hogan TK15 - 49, 55
Edel Deschutes

Photo WITB

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#64 Lorso

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 01:37 AM

Nice set(s)!  Just ordered the MOI speed match scale and looking forward to tweaking my setup as well.

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#65 Dan Drake

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 01:15 PM

Richie,

I'm interested in how your Danger Zone© concept influenced your bag setup.  Particularly the decision to go with a 2h & 3h and eschew the traditional 56° sand wedge.

RBZ w/AD BB
E8 ß 12° w/Rogue
SLDR 17° w/VS Proto
FliHi 20° w/Altus
AP2 4-G w/DG
Toe Sweep 58° w/DG Spinner
Workshop III

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#66 RichieHunt

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 07:23 AM

 Dan Drake, on 17 August 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Richie,

I'm interested in how your Danger Zone© concept influenced your bag setup.  Particularly the decision to go with a 2h & 3h and eschew the traditional 56° sand wedge.

The big thing is the gapping.  I determined that I'd rather be in-between clubs with a short club than a long club.  It's just difficult to take off the appropriate amount of distance when you get to the longer clubs.  You can swing easier, but then you fear the 'swing easy and hit hard' shot.

I believe the hybrids should be the best clubs in your bag because you're essentially having to hit them the furthest from the worst lies.  So, I was determined to have a hybrid in my bag.

I used to carry a 3-iron and I found from a decent lie it's a bit more accurate to hit to the green than the hybrid.  But, the 3-hybrid works better from crappy lies and it is better at carrying trouble.  It also seemed to me that a lot of shots that require a 3-iron tend to have trouble in front of the green, so I wanted the 3-hybrid which could consistently carry the trouble no problem.

I went to a 52 degree because I noticed that I had an issue with the gap between my PW and 56* SW.  I also noticed that around the green I was far more likely to use my 60* LW than my 56* SW.

I also believed that I could probably find a 52* SW that I could more easily adjust my shot to hit it around the green than I could with a PW and trying to hit a 125 yard shot into the green.

So, I set out to find a 52* SW that was shaped more like a 56* SW, but I could hit 120-125 yards.  The Vokey does the trick really well.  In fact, I will use the 52* on shots from 60-75 yards where I spin the ball a ton and it works like magic.

I also saw that Ernie Els and Sang Moon Bae, both having good (if not great) short games both used the 52* SW with a 60* LW and no 56* SW.  So it wasn't like I was totally off the wall with the idea.






RH

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#67 Dan Drake

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 10:36 AM

 RichieHunt, on 07 September 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

 Dan Drake, on 17 August 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Richie,

I'm interested in how your Danger Zone© concept influenced your bag setup.  Particularly the decision to go with a 2h & 3h and eschew the traditional 56° sand wedge.

The big thing is the gapping.  I determined that I'd rather be in-between clubs with a short club than a long club.  It's just difficult to take off the appropriate amount of distance when you get to the longer clubs.  You can swing easier, but then you fear the 'swing easy and hit hard' shot.

I believe the hybrids should be the best clubs in your bag because you're essentially having to hit them the furthest from the worst lies.  So, I was determined to have a hybrid in my bag.

I used to carry a 3-iron and I found from a decent lie it's a bit more accurate to hit to the green than the hybrid.  But, the 3-hybrid works better from crappy lies and it is better at carrying trouble.  It also seemed to me that a lot of shots that require a 3-iron tend to have trouble in front of the green, so I wanted the 3-hybrid which could consistently carry the trouble no problem.

I went to a 52 degree because I noticed that I had an issue with the gap between my PW and 56* SW.  I also noticed that around the green I was far more likely to use my 60* LW than my 56* SW.

I also believed that I could probably find a 52* SW that I could more easily adjust my shot to hit it around the green than I could with a PW and trying to hit a 125 yard shot into the green.

So, I set out to find a 52* SW that was shaped more like a 56* SW, but I could hit 120-125 yards.  The Vokey does the trick really well.  In fact, I will use the 52* on shots from 60-75 yards where I spin the ball a ton and it works like magic.

I also saw that Ernie Els and Sang Moon Bae, both having good (if not great) short games both used the 52* SW with a 60* LW and no 56* SW.  So it wasn't like I was totally off the wall with the idea.






RH

Thank you for the explanation, I'm very seriously considering going to an identical bag setup.  I have a few "beliefs" when it comes to bag setup and your bag matches them perfectly and I want to emulate that.  

Would you mind posting your carry yardages with your current bag, just so I can see how you have your Danger Zone clubs gapped vs your short game clubs?  

Thank you,

Dan
RBZ w/AD BB
E8 ß 12° w/Rogue
SLDR 17° w/VS Proto
FliHi 20° w/Altus
AP2 4-G w/DG
Toe Sweep 58° w/DG Spinner
Workshop III

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#68 RichieHunt

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 12:08 PM

 Dan Drake, on 07 September 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:


Thank you for the explanation, I'm very seriously considering going to an identical bag setup.  I have a few "beliefs" when it comes to bag setup and your bag matches them perfectly and I want to emulate that.  

Would you mind posting your carry yardages with your current bag, just so I can see how you have your Danger Zone clubs gapped vs your short game clubs?  

Thank you,

Dan

Here's my carry yardages:

Driver = 270-280 yards
3-wood = 240-250 yards
2-Hybrid = 230-235 yards
3-hybrid = 220-225 yards
4-iron = 208 yards
5-iron = 195 yards
6-iron = 182 yards
7-iron = 170 yards
8-iron = 158 yards
9-iron = 147 yards
P-Wedge = 136 yards
S-Wedge (52*) = 122 yards
L-Wedge (60*) = 90 yards






RH

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#69 Dan Drake

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 01:25 PM

 RichieHunt, on 07 September 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

 Dan Drake, on 07 September 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Thank you for the explanation, I'm very seriously considering going to an identical bag setup.  I have a few "beliefs" when it comes to bag setup and your bag matches them perfectly and I want to emulate that.  

Would you mind posting your carry yardages with your current bag, just so I can see how you have your Danger Zone clubs gapped vs your short game clubs?  

Thank you,

Dan

Here's my carry yardages:

Driver = 270-280 yards
3-wood = 240-250 yards
2-Hybrid = 230-235 yards
3-hybrid = 220-225 yards
4-iron = 208 yards
5-iron = 195 yards
6-iron = 182 yards
7-iron = 170 yards
8-iron = 158 yards
9-iron = 147 yards
P-Wedge = 136 yards
S-Wedge (52*) = 122 yards
L-Wedge (60*) = 90 yards






RH

Thank you.  Those are within a yard or two of my yardages as well.  The top end of the bag really comes into play on a good number of holes (par 5's x 4, long par 3's, long par 4's, holes where you don't hit the driver very well, etc.).  These holes, it's nice to take 3 from long distance, but way more important to NOT take 5, and having good gaps allows for fuller, freer swings, like you said.

I'm also very happy to hear that the 52° works well for you as a partial wedge club.  I often though that it would be even better than a 60°, due to the optimal launch angle for spin generation AND the fact that 52° is a bit more forgiving than 60°.  I would imagine that for those mid range shots where you don't have to carry anything, the 52° is the optimal club.
RBZ w/AD BB
E8 ß 12° w/Rogue
SLDR 17° w/VS Proto
FliHi 20° w/Altus
AP2 4-G w/DG
Toe Sweep 58° w/DG Spinner
Workshop III

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#70 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:47 PM

Current WITB:

Driver: Callaway Epic, 9.0* loft, 45-3/8" Fujikura Atmos Blue 7x shaft (gamer), TaylorMade M1, 9.5*, 45-3/8" Fujikura VC6.1 (X-Stiff)

3-Wood: Cobra King F6+, 13* loft, 43" Fujikura Atmos Blue 7x shaft

2-Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 17* loft, 41" Fujikura Motore 8.8HB Tour Spec (Stiff)

3-Hybrid: Titleist 816H2, 19* loft, 40-3/4" Fujikura Motore 8.8HB Tour Spec (Stiff)

4-iron thru P-Wedge: Srixon Z945, standard lie and loft, True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 shafts

S-Wedge: Titleist Vokey Spin Milled 6 F-Grind, 52* loft, 12* bounce, 36-1/4" Nippon Modus 125 Wedge shaft

L-Wedge: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60* loft, 22* bounce, 35-5/8" Nippon Modus 125 Wedge shaft

Putter:  Toulon Design Long Island, 35" long, 3* loft, 70* lie angle.


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RH


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#71 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:56 PM

I'm currently gaming the Callaway Epic for now, but I also have the M1 on standby.  I think I'm more consistent from a distance perspective with the M1, but the Epic reacts to toe hits better.

The change to the Titleist hybrids has been great.  They are excellent for me.  I plan on getting fitted for new clubs in the Spring and I will not touch the hybrids as I like them so much.

The irons are still the same, although I'm probably going to go to cavity backs in the Spring and perhaps some sort of composite shafts.  I'm working diligently on my swing and I'm making steady progress and I want to have the swing close to where I want it before I go to new irons.

I'm still using the same wedge designs, but I'm using the SM6.  The bore is a little longer on the SM6 and thus the head is about 2 grams lighter.  

The Edel LW is still the best LW I've ever hit.  

I went to the Toulon Long Island.  I actually had a Cameron, but that didn't fit my stroke and this fits my stroke better and I now make a lot more right-to-left putts and feel more comfortable under the short putts.  It's also got a great feel

All of my clubs, driver thru LW are still MOI matched and fitted.







RH

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#72 staysober for golf

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:51 PM

Great Distances!!!
My soon to be 48 WITB ;

Driver: Mizuno JPX 900 8.5*/ 661 X 45"
3-Wood: Titleist FD 13.5*/ S+ 70 X 43"
3 Hybrid: Callaway Apex 18*/ Kk 80 X 40.5"
Utility: Callaway Apex UT 21* & 24* TTDG Stiff.
Irons: Callaway 6i Apex & X2H pro 7i-Pw 6.0
Wedge: Callaway X series 56* Stock.
Putter: Callaway Odyssey #1 WIDE, 33"


WITB

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#73 BIG STU

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 05:14 PM

Well you know me Richie I had to come on here and see what you have done next--- As always very interesting----
Driver: Titleist 915 D-2 Mitsubishi Diamana 65 R
3 Wood Adams Super S 15* Bassara Regular flex
Hybrid - TM Rescue Mid 19* Pro Launch Blue
Hybrid- Adams A 12 OS  22* Pro Launch Blue 60R
5 Iron 1980 Macgregor VIP TT S-300 High Launch
6 thru PW 2013 Callaway Forged X PXI 5.5
GW Vokey 252 series 54 bent to 52 S-400
SW Cleveland 588 56* S-300 Sensicore
LW Cleveland 588 60* S-300 Sensicore
Putter - Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage rusty as heck nicknamed "Rusty"
Bag Old School TEE 3.5 stand

Founding Father of the Outlaw Golf Association Member #1 To heck with the USGA
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Vintage for now
P-40 Macgregor Super Eye O Matic 2 wood
3 wood Macgregor 945W
1 iron 1967 Spalding Top Flite
Irons 3 thru PW 1990 Hogan Grind
SW-- 1965 Wilson Staff Triple Duty 56*
Putter (for now) Acushnet 35 R Standard Bulls Eye

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#74 Judge440

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 05:29 PM

Baller alert!  Nice gear man.
917D3 9.5* - Atmos Blue
917F2 15* - Atmos Blue
919H1 19* - HZRDUS Black 6.0
718 4 TMB / 5-6 CB / 7-PW MB - PX LZ 6.0
Vokey SM6 50F/54V/60V - S400
009


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#75 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:10 PM

A few goodies.  First, the non-golf club addition.  The FlightScope Mevo.  

This is really good.  I tested this against Trackman and the data was very similar.  Connectivity to my Android can be a little wanky, but I really look forward to this for not only practice, but for club and ball fitting.

Mevo.jpeg






RH

Edited by RichieHunt, 08 February 2018 - 01:11 PM.


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#76 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:15 PM

Next up, the Miura K-Grind 52* wedge.

I had the Miura K-Grind in 56* a few years ago and really liked it.  However, I switched to a wedge setup of PW, 52* and 60* and the K-Grind was not available 52* at the time.  Then when it was, I wanted to try out the 52* K-Grind first because I was a little skeptical of the bounce (8*).  I got to try it out at the PGA Show and it was exactly what I was looking for.  I added a Nippon Modus 125 Wedge shaft.  I will put some lead tape on it.

kgrind back.jpeg

k grind bottom.jpeg




RH

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#77 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:22 PM

Lastly, the Bettinardi Queen B #9.  This is a 362 gram head, 1/2 shaft offset with a little toe hang.  3* loft and 71* lie angle at 34".  Really love how this putter sets down...not only from a looks perspective, but from a feel perspective.

betti back.jpeg

betti down.jpeg

betti face.jpeg

betti bottom.jpeg





RH

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#78 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:24 PM

In case anybody is wondering because I do check these things...the Miura K-Grind head weighed in at 301.2 grams.






RH

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#79 FAbb

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:49 PM

Have you used the mevo indoors at all, or just outside? I just picked one up to use in my garage, and outside on the rare occasion I get to the the range. Excited to see how well it works!

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#80 RichieHunt

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:36 PM

View PostFAbb, on 08 February 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

Have you used the mevo indoors at all, or just outside? I just picked one up to use in my garage, and outside on the rare occasion I get to the the range. Excited to see how well it works!

I've only used it outdoors.  When I used it with very little wind it was working great.  When it got windy today it had difficulty picking up consistent ball, club speed and carry distances.

They say you really need to put a sticker on the ball when you use it indoors.  But, what's cool about it outdoors is you could easily take it on the course with you.

You may have to adjust how far you have the device from the ball in order to get more accurate data and it seems to take a 3-4 swings from the same location to start to get more accurate and consistent results.  But, I'm very happy with the purchase.









RH


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#81 RichieHunt

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:25 AM

I’m enjoying the Mevo.  It appears that if you do not put the sticker on the ball, it calculates the carry and the spin.  I’m not sure if it actually measures spin and carry without the sticker, but it does provide the carry and spin without the sticker…it’s just calculated.  I could see this as I would hit balls and I would get the carry distances while the ball was still halfway in flight.

This is not really a bad thing as the calculated carry distances appear to be very accurate.  It’s just that if it is windy out…since the Mevo (w/o the sticker) is not actually measuring the actual carry distance than you may get some inaccurate readings.

For instance, let’s say I carry my normal 7-iron 170 yards.  But I have a 1 club head-wind…the Mevo (w/o the sticker) would probably read 170 yards of carry when in reality it may have gone about 160 yards.

So if you’re looking for exact distance (w/o the sticker) then you may have some issues.  But the calculation basically normalizes the data and I’m more concerned about the normalized data than the actual data since wind can change.

I will also be headed to TrueSpec Golf for a fitting on Saturday of my woods, if my elbow holds up.  Looking to find a low spinning driver head that fits me best and 3-wood heads.  I will be head to California to get fitted on Fujikura’s ENSO machine in April and I want to make sure I have the best fitted driver and 3-wood heads prior to my trip.




RH

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#82 RichieHunt

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Posted Yesterday, 07:32 PM

New driver and 3-wood after being fitted at True Spec golf.

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First off, the experience was excellent.  It's outdoors and you're at Lake Nona which is always top notch.  In fact, about 50 yards away Ian Poulter was working on his short game.  But they have really neat setup at True Spec with tons of heads and shaft combinations.

I wanted to get fitted because I was looking for a low spin head.  My gamer was a Callaway Epic (non-Sub Zero) and what I had seen I was getting my spin rates up to 3,000.  I tend to 'hang back' and it gets my attack angle too upward (+5 to +6 degrees with the driver) and it causes a very high launch (15-16 degrees) with that 3,000+ rpm spin rate.  When I'm swinging well things lower a bit, but I was trying to get my spin rate closer to 2,000.

I get warmed up while the fitter is gathering the heads and shafts and I'm hitting the ball well and end my warm up quickly since I'm going to be making a lot of swings.  Then I get set up to the Trackman and...

...I start swinging awful and my spin rates with the driver were getting to 1,100 to 1,500 rpm.  I was hitting everything badly off the toe and managed to save it and the fitter was a bit puzzled.  

After hitting about 20 more shots with my driver I started to figure out the swing and we started to see a 3,600 rpm shot that looked alright, a 3,000 rpm shot.  I was able to keep the spin rate around 2,600 so some of the swing changes I've been working on were working.

The drivers I tested were the Callaway Rogue, TaylorMade M3 and M4 and the Ping LST G400. I was surprised how much I liked the M3.  I was afraid that the M3 would spin too much.  It does launch a little higher, but I was able to manage the spin rates well and I really do think it's an effective club off mis-hits.  In fact, if I don't like Callaway Rogue, I may end up going to the M3.  The G400 I launched way too high and usually missed it right.  Feels good, but just doesn't fit me.

In the end, the shaft that fit me best was the Aldila Rogue Elite Blue 65 (X-Stiff).  I wanted to get fitted for a head as I will be getting fitted at Fujikura HQ on their ENSO machine in April.  

In the end, the current gamer (Callaway Epic with Fujikura Atmos 7x Blue) was not that far off from being an optimal fit.  I picked up about 10 yards of carry and was hitting the Rogue (w/Rogue) shaft with 282 yards carry.  The Epic with Atmos was getting about 276 yards carry.  I went to Edwin Watts on Turkey Lake Road (probably the best Edwin Watts ever) and they had the Rogue with a X-Stiff HZRDUS shaft in it.  The PGA Tour Superstore and Golf Galaxy up the road never carry X-Stiff shafts.  I also don't like the PX EvenFlow shaft.  

The retail HZRDUS comes in at 45.75" long and a MOI of 2,860 which is way too long and too heavy for me (I don't know how any amateur can swing these clubs).  I'm going to trim it down and then see how the HZRDUS works against the Atmos shaft.  But again...I'm really waiting for April when I get fitted by Fujikura.


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My 3-wood gamer was a Cobra King F7+ changed to 13* with a Fujikura Atmos 7x Blue shaft.  There were a lot of times I felt like I could probably hit my 2-hybrid (Titleist) as far as my 3-wood.  The spin isn't right and it showed up as the spin rate was at 4,000 rpm with 12.5 degree launch.

We tried an Accra shaft that was better, but then we hit the jackpot with the Veylix Rome 788LR Wildeye.  We tried some of the Mitsubishi shafts and they were either too light or too heavy.  But the Veylix was fantastic.  I started to carry it, on average 252 yards.  I maxed out a 258 yards carry.  The average spin rate was at about 3,300 rpm.   We also tried the M4 head (launches too high, but very accurate), Cobra F8 (launches perfectly, but carries about 245 yards for whatever reason).

The theme here was that I clearly needed a change in 3-woods.  The max TOTAL distance with my gamer was 254.6 yards (carry on that one was 239.7 yards).

With the Rogue and the Veylix, my average CARRY was 251.6 yards.  So I was carrying the Rogue with the Veylix only 3 yards shorter than my *max* total distance shots with my gamer.  I was also getting 20 yards of roll on average with the Rogue compared to 14 yards of roll with my gamer.

I really wasn't used to seeing a 3-wood fly that way. :)

I also got the 3+ Rogue from Edwin Watts with the HZRDUS shaft.  This comes in at 43.75" long and with a MOI of 2,725.  So it's a bit on the light side.

Anyway, my next purchase will be a new set of irons.  I'm most likely going to a CB set.  Hopefully my swing continues to improve and I can get a little less spin and launch on the ball.  But, I don't plan to get new irons until the fall.  While True Spec's facilities are awesome, summertime is just way too hot for club fitting in Florida.






RH

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Also tagged with Edel Golf, Wishon, Ping, Mizuno, Nippon

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