[Springbok]

First off, I am sure that only 1 or 2 of you will actually get to see this message before it is deleted, and my account is banned. I hope however that you will spread the word of what you have read, so that other members may be aware of what has happened.

As you may or may not be aware of, I have not actively participated in this board for quite some time. My reason for this was based solely on the way the board is moderated. Posts are locked and/or deleted for no apparent reason, other that a mod "felt" like it. You can't have an opinion here anymore, unless it is an opinion that the mods agree with. I have had posts or seen posts locked, where my enquiry as to the reason is met by "I don't know". My decision to not participate was a form of protest.

During this time, I have had many heated PM discussions with several of the mods. TaylorMadeFan, Beruo, and Ryan specifically (GxGolfer). It turns out that PM's I sent during this exchange were sent to the mods of another message board (GolfDiscussions.com), with the sole intent of getting me banned on that board, nothing else.

There is history between GD and GolfWRX. I won't get into it, but lets just say that the owner's/mods of DG got royally screwed by the owner's/mods of GolfWRX. Under normal circumstances, the WRX mods WOULD NEVER contact the GD Mods. I.e. There forwarding of my PM was solely done as a malicious action against me.

Now I have kept my mouth shut on this board in regards to my personal feelings about the moderation. However, given their latest action, I would like to make it publically know what type of people the mods (specifically those 3) are.

Adios, and good luck to you all. Counting the seconds..... 3..... 2..... 1.....

[taylormadefan]

Yes Deon, that's exactly it, the entire world is against you. Never mind the fact that you over-react to EVERYTHING that is said and done without getting any facts - case in point with your ranting here.

Have fun doing whatever it is you'd like to do, because it seems like causing trouble and seeking attention are the only two things you're good at. Se'la'vie

[The Big Pinch]

cool a reply...I wanted to hear what our mods had to say.

[Baller]

I would hope Sprinbok would not get banned here, His insight, information and photography on tour issues has been top notch on here and on other sites I have seen him on. We are all adults here, so i am sure something can be done to work out differences.

Work it out guys

[Jer-Jer]

I would like to hear both sides of the story.

[Gxgolfer]

Deon,

I will not ban you nor will I close this thread. I think people who care can decide who is right, wrong or has at least some class. I will say that you are assuming things that are far from the truth and listening to people who have good imaginations. I have moved this thread to where more people can see it and and can ask any questions they want. I contacted Swingman because he accused our moderation staff and site of having secret boards and being heavy handed. Similar to what you are saying that "WRX is BSG with a different skin." I provided him proof of the anti WRX board and sentiment from GolfDiscussions owners and some members on a closed board. We never air our grievances in public but you want to talk about facts and the truth then I have absolutely no problems with that.

Springbok said:

I really can't believe you did that. Of course the irony in all of this is that I can't get banned from the board I sent an e-mail to the owner of ASKING to have my account close/banned, yet you can betray me and have me banned from a board where there is obvious animosity between you and the owners/mod, i.e. where your sole purpose of communication was to execute your malicious action.

Go ahead and ban this account. Be aware though that I can spawn an infinite number of IP's, and it is my sole intent to make other members aware of the total lack of ethics that you obviously don't have.

Here is the PM I sent to Jerry(Swingman)

Quote

Jerry,

One of Deon's post was accidently locked and he went off on our moderation. You would probably agree with most of his comments in the PM to me. I don't believe Deon was intentionally trying to play anyone but, there are other various PMs where he implies that he is a good guy etc, etc, etc. Its only a snapshot of a time when Deon felt we were targeting him(and I'm sure still does). I have heard more than a couple people laugh at his WRX is BSG with a new skin comparison. I don't have any ill will towards Deon, he is who he is. I only have issues with people who lack the class to address people cordially with manners.

Here is the PM:

May 13 said:

(Deon)
Ryan,

In what way was my PM "threatening and condescending" If you want threating try the sentence "If you do not like the way the board is moderated then there are plenty of other ones out there".

As I told TMF in another post. Your threats don't intimidate me in the slightest. If you want "threating" from me.... I feel like I am a valuable contributor to this board. I ask for nothing in return. E.g. I gave you 2 days of masters coverage with no compensation given, and none wanted.

As for condescending from me..... As I told TMF.... nothing worse than a monkey with a badge.

Richard. This is absolutely nothing personal against you. We have met. I really enjoyed the meetings we had. This has everything to do with overzealous moderation, which as I said is the reason I left BSG in the first place.

I have NEVER made ANY attacks in against mods or WRX in public posts. Just yesterdat, I recommended to 2 people that I played with yesterday to log onto GolfWRX. I promote you all the time as the best golf board on the web. I've recommended to EA's Tiger marketing that they advertise on your site. s***, I am a member of a closed board on GolfDiscussion where WRX is bashed ALL the time, and I do nothing but defend you there (to the point where I piss them off).

BOTTOM LINE: With the next post that I have closed "for no good reason", I will stop active participation in the board, i.e. will refrain from posting at all, and merely be a "looker". If you feel you have to ban me, then so be it.

And yes "Happy mother's day Ryan". WTF does that have to do with the conversation????

Deon,

[DRGJR72]

I have no idea what is going on here...but "oh my goodness!!" This is a website to talk about golf, sell some things and kill some time.....This is turning into a mess......Aren't there more important things to discuss, deal with...etc....

"Can't we all just get along??"

DG

[DemolitionMan]

WTF? Do I have to have a tutorial on how to leave a golf forum website????!!!!!



So much drama for a Wednesday. It must be the absence of new episodes of 24. It's all downhill until the NFL gets going.

Cheers.

[dmboak]

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

[dudehere]

What is a closed board? and what is the "history" between WRX & GD? I don't mean to be so naive but WRX was my first board.

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

I don't know the backstory of this whole mess and I've only seen quality posts from Springbok, so I'm a little in the dark.

But that's not why I'm posting in this thread. I just want to applaud GX for allowing the thread to remain open. People CAN decide for themselves and they SHOULD be allowed to decide. Locking the thead or deleting the post only makes it look like someone has something to hide.

Mods should be above becoming personally offended, no matter how offensive the post is. Criticism is a healthy part of any community. And I think we've all seen what happens on message boards where criticism and dissent are not allowed. No trust.

So regardless of who is right and who is wrong, I'm glad the thread is still here.

Good decision guys.

[Gxgolfer]

A closed board is only for invited members to see and talk about. An "insiders" only access so to speak. There are two sides to every story and I don't want to go into it about WRX and GD as its a he said/ he said situation but that's over two years ago now.

[Jer-Jer]

I do believe however that some Mods do become "power happy." I have seen posts/threads deleted for no reason. And the only answer I can see is they are Mods so deal w/ it.

[HeadonaStick]

Wow... déjá vu




+++++++++++++++


It's just a message board. Really. It isn't the end of the world if a thread gets locked or deleted. If it bothers you that much, perhaps another hobby is in order...

[schlebrock]

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

[JHR]

I use to work with a guy that seemed like he would retire just about every year, but he would always come back, we would joke that this will be the 5th annual Jack retirement party, thats kind of what this is like, you have said your fairwells , now be done with it.

I do not know Spingbok or even exchanged PM's with him, but this seems like a huge woe is me and poor poor me stunt, like stated, if you do not get what you need from Golfwrx, then move on, there will always be complaints and some one will always be unhappy, thats life.

[Sean2]

I'm a new member. I haven't seen anything yet that would make me conclude that this site is biased one way or the other.

What annoys me about any forum is people who engage in name calling, condescension, are defensive, etc.

My "philosophy" with regard to posting/responding is, be kind, be courteous, and there is no such thing as a dumb question, i.e., what may be obvious to you may not be obvious to me (like trying to get my "personal" avatar to work; probably pretty obvious and easy for you folks but my avatar looks all stretchy and elongated).

Anyway, people can agree to disagree, but should always do so in the spirit of polite discourse.

I also appreciate the fact that you didn't delete this gentleman's thread. To me that shows class...let the members decide for themselves.

[taylormadefan]

In accordance with guys like Charlie who want to hear what happened, here's my half of Deon's incredible story so you all can judge for yourself whether or not I have been overzealous with my moderation power.

I locked this thread (about six months ago) and sent Deon what I believed to be a rather polite PM explaining why. These are the PM back and forths:

Taylormadefan said:

Springbok said:

Taylormadefan said:

Springbok said:

Sheez TMF, live a little. At least let the thread do down hill before locking it. You were simply assuming it was going to go downhill, without it even happening.

Honestly, what good is going to come out of that thread?

We've had identical threads in the past and they always end up the same way. So why is this one going to be any different?

Now, if you want to post a not so flattering picture of yourself and allow members to take pot-shots at you, I'd be more than happy to "let the thread go down hill."

TMF

To each his own TMF. To each his own. Personally, I think humor should always be welcome on this board. I do not see anything wrong with that post, and also see no reason for it to be removed. There is a good old South African saying: "Nothing worse that a monkey with a badge".

A monkey with a badge Deon? That's very nice.

Humor's great, I love it. However, there are ways to find humor in things without poking fun at someone's obesity. In the future you might want to research ways to go about doing so.

Have a nice day,

TMF

After that apprently Deon had a chip on his shoulder and felt he was being "targeted" by the mod crew. I guess this is the culmination of all his "frustration."

I have done exactly TWO things to moderate Deon's topics on his ENTIRE time here at GolfWRX, lock the above post and combine two separate BST threads in accordance with our rules. Apparently I'm too heavy handed.

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

I do believe however that some Mods do become "power happy." I have seen posts/threads deleted for no reason. And the only answer I can see is they are Mods so deal w/ it.

I disagree with the last sentence. I think, as mods, they have a responsibility to rise above that stuff. Just because they are mods doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out for their actions, just like any member. Ideally, a mod should never let their own personal feelings dictate how they moderate the board.

[Johnny]

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

I do believe however that some Mods do become "power happy." I have seen posts/threads deleted for no reason. And the only answer I can see is they are Mods so deal w/ it.

Jer.. sometimes what you think is no reason is not the whole story.. what you miss is the deleted threads/posts or the whole picture in general. When threads become more work then they should be...well they get closed or deleted. Other members also complain or finds posts offensive and we sometimes agree with them.

it's not a powerthing. Ask me why again you need to "know" why everythread is closed or deleted again....

[Jer-Jer]

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s? They were selling all this crap like indulgences "buy now, sin later" stuff just to make money and when a few voiced their opinions (and they were right, but not saying Deon is right b/c I don't know), they were called out on heresy charges and burned at the stake or excommunicated. So is that how you see it? Because I just think that is total BS. "If you don't like it, then leave." Come on what is that? Since you said you are an adult, how come I am 15 and I can see that that is not the road to take...discussion is always the best option. He is a member (and a very good contributing member at that) just like everyone else and should be treated as such until he is proven wrong...if that be the case.

Johnny, on Jun 6 2007, 10:17 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

I do believe however that some Mods do become "power happy." I have seen posts/threads deleted for no reason. And the only answer I can see is they are Mods so deal w/ it.

Jer.. sometimes what you think is no reason is not the whole story.. what you miss is the deleted threads/posts or the whole picture in general. When threads become more work then they should be...well they get closed or deleted. Other members also complain or finds posts offensive and we sometimes agree with them.

it's not a powerthing. Ask me why again you need to "know" why everythread is closed or deleted again....

Understood...but sometimes I just feel like it happens and it's wrong. Maybe it's ignorance on my part, I don't know.

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

taylormadefan, on Jun 6 2007, 07:15 PM, said:

In accordance with guys like Charlie who want to hear what happened, here's my half of Deon's incredible story so you all can judge for yourself whether or not I have been overzealous with my moderation power.

I locked this thread (about six months ago) and sent Deon what I believed to be a rather polite PM explaining why. These are the PM back and forths:

Taylormadefan said:

Springbok said:

Taylormadefan said:

Springbok said:

Sheez TMF, live a little. At least let the thread do down hill before locking it. You were simply assuming it was going to go downhill, without it even happening.

Honestly, what good is going to come out of that thread?

We've had identical threads in the past and they always end up the same way. So why is this one going to be any different?

Now, if you want to post a not so flattering picture of yourself and allow members to take pot-shots at you, I'd be more than happy to "let the thread go down hill."

TMF

To each his own TMF. To each his own. Personally, I think humor should always be welcome on this board. I do not see anything wrong with that post, and also see no reason for it to be removed. There is a good old South African saying: "Nothing worse that a monkey with a badge".

A monkey with a badge Deon? That's very nice.

Humor's great, I love it. However, there are ways to find humor in things without poking fun at someone's obesity. In the future you might want to research ways to go about doing so.

Have a nice day,

TMF

After that apprently Deon had a chip on his shoulder and felt he was being "targeted" by the mod crew. I guess this is the culmination of all his "frustration."

I have done exactly TWO things to moderate Deon's topics on his ENTIRE time here at GolfWRX, lock the above post and combine two separate BST threads in accordance with our rules. Apparently I'm too heavy handed.

TMF-

I've been on Springbok's side of the humor issue and I can tell you that it is very frustrating to have a post deleted without so much as a PM telling you who did it, why, or giving you a chance to give your side.

Like Springbok, I once had a "caption this" post deleted because "it would only lead to inappropriate comments." I'm still trying to figure out what inappropriate comments could have been said about that photo.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any moderating, but I think that its unwise to censor based on the possibility of inappropriate posts.

For example, previously all Michelle Wie threads here at WRX were locked down immediately. Now, they are allowed to remain and there have been some excellent discussions. Of course, there is the occasional stupid (IMO) post. But, for lack of a better description, we shouldn't "throw the baby out with the bath water."

[Gxgolfer]

That was probably because a moderator was about to delete it. Are you implying we changed the wording??? I have removed Springbok's filters so he can reply if he wants or feels his post has been altered. This way he doesn't have to create other IDs to "spread the word." He has of course posted this on other sites and that is why I left it open here. To address his concerns so people don't have to hear only one side of the story.

[Placebo]

Hey guys, I've been out of the loop for awhile. I was probably the first thorn in Ryans side on this very subject some time ago. My problem was I viewed these, "forums" as places to post your opinion's and for some reason in my mind that loosely translates into, "freedom of speech" somehow. So I found myself getting all bent out of shape feeling like my rights were violated and yada, yada, yada. The bottom line is this is their sandbox and they make the rules. If you don't like it you have some choices. You can find another sandbox. You can decide forums just aren't for you. Or you can build your own sandbox and make your own rules! If you choose the latter I promise I'll visit! Anyways I know where your coming from Springbok but your blowing things out of proportion and its really not worth it. Take a break from this site for awhile and check out some others, I find they are all fairly similar in that respect so I choose to respect their rules now if I want to play in their sandbox.

Disclaimer: The sandbox thing was something I read
in a post by Doug on TCC forums and it was ultimately
what made me see the light.

[schlebrock]

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s? They were selling all this crap like indulgences "buy now, sin later" stuff just to make money and when a few voiced their opinions (and they were right, but not saying Deon is right b/c I don't know), they were called out on heresy charges and burned at the stake or excommunicated. So is that how you see it? Because I just think that is total BS. "If you don't like it, then leave." Come on what is that? Since you said you are an adult, how come I am 15 and I can see that that is not the road to take...discussion is always the best option. He is a member (and a very good contributing member at that) just like everyone else and should be treated as such until he is proven wrong...if that be the case.

You're right.

Far be it for me to argue with a 15-year old. Your analogy of the Catholic church and Sprinbok's continued posts of how unhappy he is here with the Mods is much more apropos than mine.

Thanks for showing me the errs of my way Jer-Jer.

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 07:33 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s? They were selling all this crap like indulgences "buy now, sin later" stuff just to make money and when a few voiced their opinions (and they were right, but not saying Deon is right b/c I don't know), they were called out on heresy charges and burned at the stake or excommunicated. So is that how you see it? Because I just think that is total BS. "If you don't like it, then leave." Come on what is that? Since you said you are an adult, how come I am 15 and I can see that that is not the road to take...discussion is always the best option. He is a member (and a very good contributing member at that) just like everyone else and should be treated as such until he is proven wrong...if that be the case.

You're right.

Far be it for me to argue with a 15-year old. Your analogy of the Catholic church and Sprinbok's continued posts of how unhappy he is here with the Mods is much more apropos than mine.

Thanks for showing me the errs of my way Jer-Jer.

Whoa Schelbrock! Personal attacks are not cool. I have no problem with you disagreeing with Jer, but you should explain why you disagree instead of implying that his arguments are wrong just because he is young (assuming he is).

[Jer-Jer]

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s? They were selling all this crap like indulgences "buy now, sin later" stuff just to make money and when a few voiced their opinions (and they were right, but not saying Deon is right b/c I don't know), they were called out on heresy charges and burned at the stake or excommunicated. So is that how you see it? Because I just think that is total BS. "If you don't like it, then leave." Come on what is that? Since you said you are an adult, how come I am 15 and I can see that that is not the road to take...discussion is always the best option. He is a member (and a very good contributing member at that) just like everyone else and should be treated as such until he is proven wrong...if that be the case.

You're right.

Far be it for me to argue with a 15-year old. Your analogy of the Catholic church and Sprinbok's continued posts of how unhappy he is here with the Mods is much more apropos than mine.

Thanks for showing me the errs of my way Jer-Jer.

All I am saying is that is not the the correct response to this problem. If someone thinks (for lack of a better word) "atrocities" have been committed, then they need to be discussed and explained. "Just leave if you don't like it" is the easy road out. <=by saying that one is not listening or trying to understand anyone's side of the story but their own. It is a classic game of "I know you are but what am I?"

[HipCheck]

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s?

Jer,

I understand you're trying to make a point, but you do understand you are comparing a critical time in the evolution of Christianity to a Golf Forum, right? Golfwrx is great, but I'm not sure we're quite on a divine level.

I have nothing to do with this Deon/Golfwrx thread, but I have been a member of several boards over the past 5 years. This is my first time moderating and let me say, that it's a totally different experience than 'just surfing'. You have a dual purpose of looking for information, and making sure BST posts are proper, so hopefully people like yourself don't get ripped off. And also making sure threads don't get out of hand, insulting people, creating controversy for the sake of controvery, etc.

Moderating is a total different mindset, and Golfwrx is growing (Golf Digest, Golf For Women, Golf World), we simply don't have the time to explain why every decision has been made.

Hopefully this gives some insight.

PS: Please don't tack a note on our door.

[Jer-Jer]

Charlie_Foxtrot, on Jun 6 2007, 10:37 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 07:33 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s? They were selling all this crap like indulgences "buy now, sin later" stuff just to make money and when a few voiced their opinions (and they were right, but not saying Deon is right b/c I don't know), they were called out on heresy charges and burned at the stake or excommunicated. So is that how you see it? Because I just think that is total BS. "If you don't like it, then leave." Come on what is that? Since you said you are an adult, how come I am 15 and I can see that that is not the road to take...discussion is always the best option. He is a member (and a very good contributing member at that) just like everyone else and should be treated as such until he is proven wrong...if that be the case.

You're right.

Far be it for me to argue with a 15-year old. Your analogy of the Catholic church and Sprinbok's continued posts of how unhappy he is here with the Mods is much more apropos than mine.

Thanks for showing me the errs of my way Jer-Jer.

Whoa Schelbrock! Personal attacks are not cool. I have no problem with you disagreeing with Jer, but you should explain why you disagree instead of implying that his arguments are wrong just because he is young (assuming he is).

Yes I am 15. And I have seen this before...people don't listen to my opinion because I am 15 and a "stupid little yungin."

[schlebrock]

Charlie_Foxtrot, on Jun 6 2007, 09:37 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 07:33 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

schlebrock, on Jun 6 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

dmboak, on Jun 6 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

I'm wondering how many threads like this we're going to have from Deon. If you don't like a site, be done with it. This is tired.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't need somebody telling me what I need to watch out for regarding this site. I'm adult enough to make my own conclusions.

I hate the show "American Idol" but instead of trying to get everyone to feel like I do, I just choose to change the channel and not discuss the show. That may not be the best analogy but if you don't like the site Deon, just leave.

You may have a legitimate argument but it's your argument and nobody else's. Quit trying to get people to take either your side or Golfwrx's side because that's pointless.

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s? They were selling all this crap like indulgences "buy now, sin later" stuff just to make money and when a few voiced their opinions (and they were right, but not saying Deon is right b/c I don't know), they were called out on heresy charges and burned at the stake or excommunicated. So is that how you see it? Because I just think that is total BS. "If you don't like it, then leave." Come on what is that? Since you said you are an adult, how come I am 15 and I can see that that is not the road to take...discussion is always the best option. He is a member (and a very good contributing member at that) just like everyone else and should be treated as such until he is proven wrong...if that be the case.

You're right.

Far be it for me to argue with a 15-year old. Your analogy of the Catholic church and Sprinbok's continued posts of how unhappy he is here with the Mods is much more apropos than mine.

Thanks for showing me the errs of my way Jer-Jer.

Whoa Schelbrock! Personal attacks are not cool. I have no problem with you disagreeing with Jer, but you should explain why you disagree instead of implying that his arguments are wrong just because he is young (assuming he is).

Where's the personal attack?

He referenced that he was 15 and I replied. If that upset anyone, then I apologize. However, his anlaogy is a little overblown IMHO.

[jmc]

Regardless, thank you for offering us all the chance to make our own opinions. I believe this shows the true mark of class and diplomacy.

Sincerely Yours,

Jeff

[taylormadefan]

Charlie_Foxtrot, on Jun 6 2007, 09:31 PM, said:

TMF-

I've been on Springbok's side of the humor issue and I can tell you that it is very frustrating to have a post deleted without so much as a PM telling you who did it, why, or giving you a chance to give your side.

Like Springbok, I once had a "caption this" post deleted because "it would only lead to inappropriate comments." I'm still trying to figure out what inappropriate comments could have been said about that photo.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any moderating, but I think that its unwise to censor based on the possibility of inappropriate posts.

For example, previously all Michelle Wie threads here at WRX were locked down immediately. Now, they are allowed to remain and there have been some excellent discussions. Of course, there is the occasional stupid (IMO) post. But, for lack of a better description, we shouldn't "throw the baby out with the bath water."

Charlie, you're missing the point of my post. If you want to debate the intricacies of that post, I'd be more than happy to take that to PM - basically my reasoning behind it is that was someone's daughter / wife / mother, and the thread was set out to make fun of her. However, we can discuss that privately.

I posted that because you asked that both sides share their side of the story, so I'm telling you all the interaction I've had with Deon, and it's exactly twice. That's it. Each time I've been polite initially and was met with abrasiveness and anger.

[Jer-Jer]

HipCheck, on Jun 6 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s?

Jer,

I understand you're trying to make a point, but you do understand you are comparing a critical time in the evolution of Christianity to a Golf Forum, right? Golfwrx is great, but I'm not sure we're quite on a divine level.

I have nothing to do with this Deon/Golfwrx thread, but I have been a member of several boards over the past 5 years. This is my first time moderating and let me say, that it's a totally different experience than 'just surfing'. You have a dual purpose of looking for information, and making sure BST posts are proper, so hopefully people like yourself don't get ripped off. And also making sure threads don't get out of hand, insulting people, creating controversy for the sake of controvery, etc.

Moderating is a total different mindset, and Golfwrx is growing (Golf Digest, Golf For Women, Golf World), we simply don't have the time to explain why every decision has been made.

Hopefully this gives some insight.

PS: Please don't tack a note on our door.

I understand that you don't have time to explain every decision, and I wouldn't expect that either. But when someone voices a complaint (a legit one at least), one should not say "shut up" to them but instead one should listen to them and "put at rest" their concerns in a mature way.

P.S. HAHA!!!! Ok I won't! (that was funny when I read it, not being sarcastic either)

[TuffKukae]

Charlie_Foxtrot, on Jun 6 2007, 07:37 PM, said:

Whoa Schelbrock! Personal attacks are not cool. I have no problem with you disagreeing with Jer, but you should explain why you disagree instead of implying that his arguments are wrong just because he is young (assuming he is).

Whoa Chewy... there was no personal attack... read it again...

anyways funny you should complain.. since you always push the limits of tastefulness and have been banned from other forums.

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

Placebo, on Jun 6 2007, 07:33 PM, said:

Hey guys, I've been out of the loop for awhile. I was probably the first thorn in Ryans side on this very subject some time ago. My problem was I viewed these, "forums" as places to post your opinion's and for some reason in my mind that loosely translates into, "freedom of speech" somehow. So I found myself getting all bent out of shape feeling like my rights were violated and yada, yada, yada. The bottom line is this is their sandbox and they make the rules. If you don't like it you have some choices. You can find another sandbox. You can decide forums just aren't for you. Or you can build your own sandbox and make your own rules! If you choose the latter I promise I'll visit! Anyways I know where your coming from Springbok but your blowing things out of proportion and its really not worth it. Take a break from this site for awhile and check out some others, I find they are all fairly similar in that respect so I choose to respect their rules now if I want to play in their sandbox.

Disclaimer: The sandbox thing was something I read
in a post by Doug on TCC forums and it was ultimately
what made me see the light.

Gotta disagree with you there Placebo. It's the members that make the content. And if your members feel like they have to walk on eggshells with their speech (posts), the content will be mediocre at best.

Similarly, there is no reason the rules and the application of those rules can't be discussed openly. Maybe Springbok is blowing things out of proportion, maybe he isn't. But I can't help but wonder if he'd been allowed to vent earlier if things would have gone this far. My experience with message boards is that the members themselves are the best moderators. If a post is out of line, the other members should, and do, let the poster know. And not just by hitting the "report" button - remember, you are always going to hear from the people unhappy with the post, not those who don't mind the post. (Maybe if there was a "Report if you are unhappy with the moderating done to this post/thread" button, things would be more even?)

[Gxgolfer]

littlepingman, on Jun 6 2007, 07:39 PM, said:

Charlie_Foxtrot, on Jun 6 2007, 10:34 PM, said:

Are you joking or did that really happen?

Because that's a genuine abuse of mod powers in my opinion.

Again, glad that this thread is being allowed to stay. Productive discussions going on from both sides.

I am not kidding at all. I cut and pasted it to my Word when I saw the changes. And compared it to the original post. And I am not taking sides. It was just an observation. I love GolfWRX and this isn't going to change my mind.

I still don't understand your point? You saw a version with a quote box and then you saw it without? Are you saying someone changed the post?

[TuffKukae]

ok I'm unhappy with Chewy...

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

TuffKukae, on Jun 6 2007, 07:45 PM, said:

Charlie_Foxtrot, on Jun 6 2007, 07:37 PM, said:

Whoa Schelbrock! Personal attacks are not cool. I have no problem with you disagreeing with Jer, but you should explain why you disagree instead of implying that his arguments are wrong just because he is young (assuming he is).

Whoa Chewy... there was no personal attack... read it again...

anyways funny you should complain.. since you always push the limits of tastefulness and have been banned from other forums.

Another personal attack. Nice. Don't bother with the merits of my post, go right to insulting my character.

Why don't you go ahead and post a link to anything I have ever posted that was distasteful? Let the readers decide.

And by the way, I was banned from the other forum for questioning the moderators' habit of bashing a member, editing threads to make themselves look good, and refusing to allow any criticism at all. Something that the WRX mods ARE allowing in this very thread.

[Gxgolfer]

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 07:45 PM, said:

HipCheck, on Jun 6 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

Jer-Jer, on Jun 6 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

HAHA! Just leave? Are you kidding me? Is that the answer to all problems? So when some one thinks that reforms to be made on a board they get bashed and say "just leave if you don't like it?" What happened with the Catholic church in like the 1600s?

Jer,

I understand you're trying to make a point, but you do understand you are comparing a critical time in the evolution of Christianity to a Golf Forum, right? Golfwrx is great, but I'm not sure we're quite on a divine level.

I have nothing to do with this Deon/Golfwrx thread, but I have been a member of several boards over the past 5 years. This is my first time moderating and let me say, that it's a totally different experience than 'just surfing'. You have a dual purpose of looking for information, and making sure BST posts are proper, so hopefully people like yourself don't get ripped off. And also making sure threads don't get out of hand, insulting people, creating controversy for the sake of controvery, etc.

Moderating is a total different mindset, and Golfwrx is growing (Golf Digest, Golf For Women, Golf World), we simply don't have the time to explain why every decision has been made.

Hopefully this gives some insight.

PS: Please don't tack a note on our door.

I understand that you don't have time to explain every decision, and I wouldn't expect that either. But when someone voices a complaint (a legit one at least), one should not say "shut up" to them but instead one should listen to them and "put at rest" their concerns in a mature way.

P.S. HAHA!!!! Ok I won't! (that was funny when I read it, not being sarcastic either)

No offense Jer-Jer,

But I wonder if you have the same view after having a job and at least a child to raise.

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

TuffKukae, on Jun 6 2007, 07:48 PM, said:

ok I'm unhappy with Chewy...

That much is clear. Why don't you explain why you are unhappy.