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Ask and you shall receive-The no turn cast drill


286 replies to this topic

#61 SullGolf

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:52 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Watching the game?  My dad was with the Cards in 74 and I was there live when Lou Brock broke Wills' SB record.

I am.  These games have been exciting, but also hard to watch as a fan of either team.  All over the place.  Knew from your bio that your dad played, but didn't realize he had such good taste as to play for the Cards.  Before my time, but some great players on that team (Brock, Gibson, Joe Torre, Keith Hernandez, the Mad Hungarian).  Your dad should have taken out Tim McCarver and a young Joe Buck when he had a chance though:).


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#62 prsgtrman

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:57 PM

i was at a john jacobs golf school earlier this year and the instructor taught something very similar. i have totally forgotten about the casting from the top. gonna give it a go tomorrow.

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#63 jazerac

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:59 PM

Hey Monte. So during my round today, I noticed I was hitting it shorter and with some thin/push fades. Especially with my short to mid irons (8-5I). Anyways, I thought of your casting swing thought. I'll tell ya, most of my drives utilizing this was a nice draw and long, like 300 yards long, which is pretty good for me since I average about 260-275. I felt like I was really releasing through the impact zone. This feeling was great from LW-9I, but for 8I-4I, I seemed to hit a lot of thin shorts that had a low ball flight that had a push/slice to them. Not sure if I was going past parallel at the top or what, but any thoughts on possible causes?

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#64 DLiver

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 28 October 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

So Monte what is your opposite advice, for someone that is outside, laid off and too shallow?

Tell you to Be thankful your not steep?

I don't feel thankful. :mellow:

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#65 wmblake2000

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:33 PM

View PostSullGolf, on 28 October 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Watching the game?  My dad was with the Cards in 74 and I was there live when Lou Brock broke Wills' SB record.

I am.  These games have been exciting, but also hard to watch as a fan of either team.  All over the place.  Knew from your bio that your dad played, but didn't realize he had such good taste as to play for the Cards.  Before my time, but some great players on that team (Brock, Gibson, Joe Torre, Keith Hernandez, the Mad Hungarian).  Your dad should have taken out Tim McCarver and a young Joe Buck when he had a chance though:).

For the rest of us, it is totally fun to watch. I love the World Series except it means baseball season is ending.

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#66 scratch72

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:19 PM

View Postprsgtrman, on 28 October 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

i was at a john jacobs golf school earlier this year and the instructor taught something very similar. i have totally forgotten about the casting from the top. gonna give it a go tomorrow.
I think in his book he said, Do nothing to prevent a free flowing arm swing.

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#67 scratch72

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:23 PM

Monte, you have created another Monster thread here and just wait till the Nay Say'ers jump in.

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#68 dlygrisse

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:44 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

View PostSullGolf, on 28 October 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Indoors, so only able to try out the backswing feel.  I like it.  Lately I've been trying to focus on keeping a straighter right arm at the start so I don't let it get behind me.  Hard to do though.  Focusing purely on the wrist c0ck gets me in a good position there that I wouldn't expect.

Watching the game?  My dad was with the Cards in 74 and I was there live when Lou Brock broke Wills' SB record.
Watching the game.....I was also thinking this drill reminded me of a baseball swing.  Compact, no overswinging.
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#69 dlygrisse

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:13 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 28 October 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

View PostSullGolf, on 28 October 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Indoors, so only able to try out the backswing feel.  I like it.  Lately I've been trying to focus on keeping a straighter right arm at the start so I don't let it get behind me.  Hard to do though.  Focusing purely on the wrist c0ck gets me in a good position there that I wouldn't expect.

Watching the game?  My dad was with the Cards in 74 and I was there live when Lou Brock broke Wills' SB record.
Watching the game.....I was also thinking this drill reminded me of a baseball swing.  Compact, no overswinging.
I also wonder how many viewing this thread know who Maury Wills and Lou Brock were?  Great baseball players.
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#70 jlo

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:20 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 28 October 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

View Postdlygrisse, on 28 October 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

View PostSullGolf, on 28 October 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Indoors, so only able to try out the backswing feel.  I like it.  Lately I've been trying to focus on keeping a straighter right arm at the start so I don't let it get behind me.  Hard to do though.  Focusing purely on the wrist c0ck gets me in a good position there that I wouldn't expect.

Watching the game?  My dad was with the Cards in 74 and I was there live when Lou Brock broke Wills' SB record.
Watching the game.....I was also thinking this drill reminded me of a baseball swing.  Compact, no overswinging.
I also wonder how many viewing this thread know who Maury Wills and Lou Brock were?  Great baseball players.

I know them for sure.

Perhaps the most amazing year for a pitcher was when Bob Gibson sported a 1.12 era for an entire season.

Intimidating no nonsense pitcher.


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#71 modore

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 28 October 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

View Postdlygrisse, on 28 October 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 28 October 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

View PostSullGolf, on 28 October 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Indoors, so only able to try out the backswing feel.  I like it.  Lately I've been trying to focus on keeping a straighter right arm at the start so I don't let it get behind me.  Hard to do though.  Focusing purely on the wrist c0ck gets me in a good position there that I wouldn't expect.

Watching the game?  My dad was with the Cards in 74 and I was there live when Lou Brock broke Wills' SB record.
Watching the game.....I was also thinking this drill reminded me of a baseball swing.  Compact, no overswinging.
I also wonder how many viewing this thread know who Maury Wills and Lou Brock were?  Great baseball players.

I know who they are.
How about a Brockabrella to wear when you golf?

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#72 Hoganstriker

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:57 PM

Great video.
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#73 finalist

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:07 PM

View Postscratch72, on 28 October 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Monte, you have created another Monster thread here and just wait till the Nay Say'ers jump in.

Personally I really like the video. I've been working extremely hard for about a month to stop overswinging and the drill is a massive help. BUT for the sake of scientific thought I'd be interested in reading a nay sayer's sayings.
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#74 capboomer

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:08 PM

Cool vid. Trying to relate this to another video you posted not too long ago. The one where you described the "three things" that happen in the swing (setting the wrists, a twist of the arms to 45deg, and shoulder turn). Need to hit more balls so I can get all of these swing thoughts out of my head!

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#75 Ajlepisto

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:56 AM

This was huge for me. I stumbled on this idea a while back when you were posting about feeling like you're throwing away the lag immediately. Even fat shots are powerful, if that makes sense. You tear through the dirt.

I knew I was onto something when I started hitting my driver lower than ever while feeling like I was flipping it into the air.


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#76 loadnhips

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Edited by loadnhips, 29 October 2013 - 02:04 AM.


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#77 vaterman

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:18 AM

This seem to be the right medicine for me. Thinking "no turn, set wrists vertical" helps me getting to the top a lot better. The idea of "flipping" the clubhead through the ball when I take my stance makes me more inclined to set my left hip more towards the target and get secondary tilt automatically. Backswing is still to long but as I worked through the drill and could see distance increasing when I managed to stop the backswing early I started to relax more.

I found out that changing my mindset about the backswing as a movement to put the hands in a good postion for hitting the ball, slowed down the tempo of the backswing - instead of hitting full throttle from the beginning of the backswing. That helped a lot on my tendensy to overdo the backswing. Slowing Down the tempo of the backswing makes it much easier for me to simply "set wrists with no turn". And with the idea of casting the right wrist to the ball creates lots of speed by itself without me having to put effort into it. It gives fantastic result in distance and ballflight.

As the Matrix was the climax in moviemaking so is this video in golf instruction.

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#78 DLiver

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

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#79 craniac24

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Truer words have never been spoken.

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#80 loadnhips

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

Edited by loadnhips, 29 October 2013 - 08:40 AM.


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#81 bph7

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:09 AM

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

You are right that you've given enough information for people to figure it out, but not everyone knows all of this terminology.  For instance, cocking vs bending/hinging trips people up, because they don't know the biomechanical differences between the "c0cking" action (Radial/ulnar deviation) and "bending/hinging (flexion/extension).  I thought it was tremendously helpful once I learned the different biomechanical actions of the forearms, but not everyone has.

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#82 craniac24

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:17 AM

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

I get it...we're idiots.  Thanks for pointing that out to us.  And what exactly do you mean by "you people"???

Edited by craniac24, 29 October 2013 - 09:17 AM.


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#83 eightiron

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:22 AM

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

RFT is a preferred procedure to move the club head/ sweet spot along the selected plane , usually the turned shoulder plane and basically goes with the concept of hands controlling the pivot
Morad as you can see by what you asked is a combination of monitoring the hands and the pivot

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#84 Ripper212

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:37 AM

Monte - love the video and clear explanation. Interestingly I had a lesson once with instructor who told me not to turn the chest at all. Worked well and don't know why I stopped. Question though - isn't this somewhat contradictory to your usual advice of starting the backswing by turning right shoulder back? I've been using that as a backswing feel and it seems to automatically keep the arms and club in front of chest.

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#85 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:41 AM




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#86 loadnhips

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

View Postbph7, on 29 October 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

You are right that you've given enough information for people to figure it out, but not everyone knows all of this terminology.  For instance, cocking vs bending/hinging trips people up, because they don't know the biomechanical differences between the "c0cking" action (Radial/ulnar deviation) and "bending/hinging (flexion/extension).  I thought it was tremendously helpful once I learned the different biomechanical actions of the forearms, but not everyone has.

I think its obvious why the term "cocking" was used for the L wrist and R elbow, while the term "bending" was used for the R wrist. I think people (including me) are sometimes guilty of looking for more complex things than what statements are saying. Sometimes its really as easy as it looks.

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#87 loadnhips

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:56 AM

View Postcraniac24, on 29 October 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

I get it...we're idiots.  Thanks for pointing that out to us.  And what exactly do you mean by "you people"???

No you're not. And that's not what I meant. Don't put words into my mouth. See my previous post. I meant simple things are being treated as difficult stuff...I think people (including me), which is what I meant by "you people", are looking for more complex stuff than what is being said...if you look at the literal meanings of the words/statements, they're quite easy to digest if given more time (more than one reading).

Apologies if I hurt your feelings. Didn't intend it to be such.

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#88 loadnhips

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 29 October 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:



Suspects for what?

I think these are valid questions. What's the diff? What's your background? Are you TGM trained? MORAD trained? Good stuff anyway. Your video will help a lot.

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#89 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:06 AM

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 29 October 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:



Suspects for what?

I think these are valid questions. What's the diff? What's your background? Are you TGM trained? MORAD trained? Good stuff anyway. Your video will help a lot.

I was just poking a little fun at the conversation.  It's the scene where they tell Fenster, "in English please!"

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:09 AM

View Posteightiron, on 29 October 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 29 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

View Postloadnhips, on 29 October 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

What is the difference of this from TGM's RFT (right forearm takeaway) and MORAD's simultaneous single action L wrist c0ck (with strongish grip), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking takeaway/BS and L side lateral bend?

Well for starters, you can actually understand what Monte is talking about.

Why not understand the origin or the one that researched them in detail?

And what's difficult to understand with Right Forearm Takeaway (TGM)...

...or L wrist c0ck (single wrist action=one kind of action, which is just cocking), R wrist bend, R elbow cocking and L side lateral bend? These can be interpreted literally...you people are making it difficult...

RFT is a preferred procedure to move the club head/ sweet spot along the selected plane , usually the turned shoulder plane and basically goes with the concept of hands controlling the pivot
Morad as you can see by what you asked is a combination of monitoring the hands and the pivot

If you want the elbow plane as your release plane (I believe this is called double shift?...from hands/elbow plane at setup you shift up to shoulder plane, then shift down again to elbow plane in DS?), what's the better option? Do you like L side lateral bend first, R elbow retraction/back/up/in then R elbow c0ck?


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