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Titleist 712 AP1 and AP2 vs. 714 AP1 and AP2

712 714 AP1 AP2

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#1 im_Rob

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

I had a couple of people asking for 712 vs 714, so I took the challenge.  Very interesting results.

Controls
Same range balls, hand picked so that they were the best I could hit
Same weather, 45*F little to no wind <5mph tail wind
Same person swinging the club
Same club 6i
Same length and lie angle
Same shaft X100

Variables
Swing, I feel my swing is repeatable but I am not an Iron Byron.  I used only averages because of that.

Test
5 balls with each club, then switched models.  I hit 10 balls with each club.  I went all the way through AP1 before switching to AP2.

Results
Interesting to say the least.  Ill let the numbers speak for themselves, but I believe if I was truly in the market it would come down to the appearance of each club.  The 714 AP1 did not set up for me as well as the 712.  The opposite with the AP2.  The 714 looks perfect for me.  

No change to the results
712 vs 714.png

Normalized
Normalized 712 vs 714.png

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#2 PingGuru

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:20 PM

Nice job. The thing that stands out to me is that the AP1 launched lower than the AP2's and had lower spin.  Definitely would not have expected that.
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#3 emo

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:05 PM

thanks I will be pulling the trigger on ap1 714

#4 tmax77

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:50 PM

That's one of things I liked 712 ap1 over 712 ap2 I seemed to have an easier job flighting the ap1 surprisingly enough...
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#5 rbhan12

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:04 PM

practically identical numbers between the ap2s


#6 PirateJim

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:52 PM

Great review, thank you!  So... for a 60 year old fairly new to playing seriously (play several times a week, practice most days) currently playing to a 10.5 down from 20 a year ago and using Ping G20s that need to go, should I be looking at the AP2s or am I better served sticking to the AP1s?  (Absolutely not trying to hijack the thread with this!  But it seems im_Rob is probably well placed to give feedback that could be considered a legit addition to the review with respect to forgiveness.)
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#7 gvogel

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:27 PM

So, the 714 AP1's with X100 launch lower than the 712's?   Surprise, surprise; the 714's have stinger lofts.

If you can play AP1's with X100 shafts, you probably want to go with the lofts on the 712's.  Order accordingly.

The new 714 AP1 stock shaft is the Dynalite Gold XP 95.  It is lighter (thanks you Titleist if you are over 50), and launches higher than the Dynalite Gold Xp that was stock in the 712's.  A higher launching shaft (lighter for us old guys) combined with stronger lofts.

Hey, these are great irons.  Play them with X100's with the lofts adjusted 1* weaker, or play them with the new standard lofts with a high launching shaft.  Lots of options, lots of variables.  But, the heads are great.

I have had wonderful rounds with the 712 AP1's., having posted my best 18 hole score ever.  I have ordered the 714's just for the fun of it.  This year I switched from the Nippon 105T shaft in stiff to the 105T in regular - I'm getting older.  Now I find that my misses are left of the target instead of short right, which I think is a good thing.  The R shaft helped me hit a good ball with less effort.

I am going to have a great time deciding whether the Nippon 105T shaft is better for me, versus the new Dynalite gold XP 95.

Once upon a time, there were only hickory shafts….

Later, there was Dynga-wood, which was like bamboo - but that's a different story.  Golf clubs will be perfected when the shaft weighs nothing, when the club head can be controlled by the grip through cosmic force rays - in other words, when the shaft weighs absolutely nothing.  Until then, we have to take into consideration the combination of club head and shaft weight and stiffness.
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#8 emo

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:42 PM

 gvogel, on 27 October 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

So, the 714 AP1's with X100 launch lower than the 712's?   Surprise, surprise; the 714's have stinger lofts.

If you can play AP1's with X100 shafts, you probably want to go with the lofts on the 712's.  Order accordingly.

The new 714 AP1 stock shaft is the Dynalite Gold XP 95.  It is lighter (thanks you Titleist if you are over 50), and launches higher than the Dynalite Gold Xp that was stock in the 712's.  A higher launching shaft (lighter for us old guys) combined with stronger lofts.

Hey, these are great irons.  Play them with X100's with the lofts adjusted 1* weaker, or play them with the new standard lofts with a high launching shaft.  Lots of options, lots of variables.  But, the heads are great.

I have had wonderful rounds with the 712 AP1's., having posted my best 18 hole score ever.  I have ordered the 714's just for the fun of it.  This year I switched from the Nippon 105T shaft in stiff to the 105T in regular - I'm getting older.  Now I find that my misses are left of the target instead of short right, which I think is a good thing.  The R shaft helped me hit a good ball with less effort.

I am going to have a great time deciding whether the Nippon 105T shaft is better for me, versus the new Dynalite gold XP 95.

Once upon a time, there were only hickory shafts….

Later, there was Dynga-wood, which was like bamboo - but that's a different story.  Golf clubs will be perfected when the shaft weighs nothing, when the club head can be controlled by the grip through cosmic force rays - in other words, when the shaft weighs absolutely nothing.  Until then, we have to take into consideration the combination of club head and shaft weight and stiffness.
how are the short irons.

#9 im_Rob

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:17 PM

 PirateJim, on 27 October 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Great review, thank you!  So... for a 60 year old fairly new to playing seriously (play several times a week, practice most days) currently playing to a 10.5 down from 20 a year ago and using Ping G20s that need to go, should I be looking at the AP2s or am I better served sticking to the AP1s?  (Absolutely not trying to hijack the thread with this!  But it seems im_Rob is probably well placed to give feedback that could be considered a legit addition to the review with respect to forgiveness.)

I think the thing to keep in mind is my swing speed / ball speed.  I am not highest around but I am not on the low end either.  At 6 iron I am still creating enough speed that forgiveness is not as important.  Now switch to 4i or even 3i and it's a different story.  I would need the forgiveness that AP1 would create.  
I don't know your numbers but I would try them both. I would call around and see if anyone near you has the long irons and short  to demo.  Hit the whole spectrum and make a decision based on your findings.
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#10 pegleg

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:40 PM

The Titleist talk on these sets specifies improvement in turf interaction, appearance (specifically offset), and forgiveness (specifically the AP2). So, a comparison purely of distance and other numbers misses the points of improvements.

Even with the stronger lofts (6-PW), their info seems to suggest this is purely for ballflight control. My guess is that by making them a bit more forgiving, they raised the ballflight, so countered that with loft.

Personally, I have only hit the 714 6 irons, whereas I have sets of 712 AP1 and AP2. My initial impression is that they have improved these irons - albeit, improving a line that was already pretty fantastic.
I do find the turn interaction to be slightly improved, though that was something I've been very happy with the 712 AP2. Impression is that the AP2 is easier to hit / slightly more forgiving, but very close.


Overall, if you have a mint set of 712s, I'd see no need to rush out and buy the 714s, unless they look significantly better to you. IMO, you wouldn't be the target market anyway.
If your 712s are wearing thin (as should be the case after 2 years for devout Titleist players), or you're looking for that little extra improvement to switch from another brand, this could be it.

I do think Titleist should be congratulated for keeping this lineup configuration going for so many years, and improving it each time without screwing it up. Ping is the only other company I can think of capable of such consistency. Albeit, without the incendiary initial sales figures of TM.


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#11 im_Rob

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

 pegleg, on 27 October 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

The Titleist talk on these sets specifies improvement in turf interaction, appearance (specifically offset), and forgiveness (specifically the AP2). So, a comparison purely of distance and other numbers misses the points of improvements.

Even with the stronger lofts (6-PW), their info seems to suggest this is purely for ballflight control. My guess is that by making them a bit more forgiving, they raised the ballflight, so countered that with loft.

Personally, I have only hit the 714 6 irons, whereas I have sets of 712 AP1 and AP2. My initial impression is that they have improved these irons - albeit, improving a line that was already pretty fantastic.
I do find the turn interaction to be slightly improved, though that was something I've been very happy with the 712 AP2. Impression is that the AP2 is easier to hit / slightly more forgiving, but very close.


Overall, if you have a mint set of 712s, I'd see no need to rush out and buy the 714s, unless they look significantly better to you. IMO, you wouldn't be the target market anyway.
If your 712s are wearing thin (as should be the case after 2 years for devout Titleist players), or you're looking for that little extra improvement to switch from another brand, this could be it.

I do think Titleist should be congratulated for keeping this lineup configuration going for so many years, and improving it each time without screwing it up. Ping is the only other company I can think of capable of such consistency. Albeit, without the incendiary initial sales figures of TM.

I think you're 100% right.  Titleist is not making big hype about a new club. Claiming so many yards of distance gains.  

They take a stable platform and keeping improving it.  PING is very similar in this aspect.
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#12 Redjeep83

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:13 PM

 im_Rob, on 27 October 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

 pegleg, on 27 October 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

The Titleist talk on these sets specifies improvement in turf interaction, appearance (specifically offset), and forgiveness (specifically the AP2). So, a comparison purely of distance and other numbers misses the points of improvements.

Even with the stronger lofts (6-PW), their info seems to suggest this is purely for ballflight control. My guess is that by making them a bit more forgiving, they raised the ballflight, so countered that with loft.

Personally, I have only hit the 714 6 irons, whereas I have sets of 712 AP1 and AP2. My initial impression is that they have improved these irons - albeit, improving a line that was already pretty fantastic.
I do find the turn interaction to be slightly improved, though that was something I've been very happy with the 712 AP2. Impression is that the AP2 is easier to hit / slightly more forgiving, but very close.


Overall, if you have a mint set of 712s, I'd see no need to rush out and buy the 714s, unless they look significantly better to you. IMO, you wouldn't be the target market anyway.
If your 712s are wearing thin (as should be the case after 2 years for devout Titleist players), or you're looking for that little extra improvement to switch from another brand, this could be it.

I do think Titleist should be congratulated for keeping this lineup configuration going for so many years, and improving it each time without screwing it up. Ping is the only other company I can think of capable of such consistency. Albeit, without the incendiary initial sales figures of TM.

I think you're 100% right.  Titleist is not making big hype about a new club. Claiming so many yards of distance gains.  

They take a stable platform and keeping improving it.  PING is very similar in this aspect.

exactly, Ive hit both extensively. Only difference I found between 712 and 714 is when looking at the back cavity, at address is identical except for the satin. Same with s55 and s56. They didnt want to change these irons, basically the appearance of the cavity is the only difference Ive found, not really a need to go out and switch to the new model if you have the 712 or s56

#13 PingGuru

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:43 PM

Big difference in the 712 and 714 ap2's in my opinion. The 714 leading edge works much better for my steep attack angle.  712 dug way too much, and 714 clips ground and bounces right off with a perfect divot every time.  Probably be the opposite for some people as well. All depends on the swing.

Edited by PingGuru, 27 October 2013 - 09:44 PM.

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#14 Redjeep83

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:01 PM

 PingGuru, on 27 October 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Big difference in the 712 and 714 ap2's in my opinion. The 714 leading edge works much better for my steep attack angle.  712 dug way too much, and 714 clips ground and bounces right off with a perfect divot every time.  Probably be the opposite for some people as well. All depends on the swing.

ehh, they are just splitting hairs at this point, a pre worn leading edge, lol. Last change really was between the 710 ap2 and 712 ap2. Not saying thats a bad thing but its the same to me in appearance and ballflight, long irons went higher in the 712's as well. Theres only so much they can do with the tech they are using in that profile of an iron. Have to make a major change if you want something different than what the 712 offered but thats what they wanted to do.

#15 PingGuru

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:40 PM

 Redjeep83, on 27 October 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

 PingGuru, on 27 October 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Big difference in the 712 and 714 ap2's in my opinion. The 714 leading edge works much better for my steep attack angle.  712 dug way too much, and 714 clips ground and bounces right off with a perfect divot every time.  Probably be the opposite for some people as well. All depends on the swing.

ehh, they are just splitting hairs at this point, a pre worn leading edge, lol. Last change really was between the 710 ap2 and 712 ap2. Not saying thats a bad thing but its the same to me in appearance and ballflight, long irons went higher in the 712's as well. Theres only so much they can do with the tech they are using in that profile of an iron. Have to make a major change if you want something different than what the 712 offered but thats what they wanted to do.


That small 'lol' change may have been nothing to some, but was enough for me. Funny how you know my swing so well.

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#16 EagleEagleBirdieBirdie

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:09 AM

The new 714 line has less visual offset.

#17 Golf64

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

 gvogel, on 27 October 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

So, the 714 AP1's with X100 launch lower than the 712's?   Surprise, surprise; the 714's have stinger lofts.

If you can play AP1's with X100 shafts, you probably want to go with the lofts on the 712's.  Order accordingly.

The new 714 AP1 stock shaft is the Dynalite Gold XP 95.  It is lighter (thanks you Titleist if you are over 50), and launches higher than the Dynalite Gold Xp that was stock in the 712's.  A higher launching shaft (lighter for us old guys) combined with stronger lofts.

Hey, these are great irons.  Play them with X100's with the lofts adjusted 1* weaker, or play them with the new standard lofts with a high launching shaft.  Lots of options, lots of variables.  But, the heads are great.

I have had wonderful rounds with the 712 AP1's., having posted my best 18 hole score ever.  I have ordered the 714's just for the fun of it.  This year I switched from the Nippon 105T shaft in stiff to the 105T in regular - I'm getting older.  Now I find that my misses are left of the target instead of short right, which I think is a good thing.  The R shaft helped me hit a good ball with less effort.

I am going to have a great time deciding whether the Nippon 105T shaft is better for me, versus the new Dynalite gold XP 95.

Once upon a time, there were only hickory shafts….

Later, there was Dynga-wood, which was like bamboo - but that's a different story.  Golf clubs will be perfected when the shaft weighs nothing, when the club head can be controlled by the grip through cosmic force rays - in other words, when the shaft weighs absolutely nothing.  Until then, we have to take into consideration the combination of club head and shaft weight and stiffness.
Try the Nippon 950s, soft, higher and more spin than the 105Ts. I'm in the same boat, getting older and slower. No upcharge with Titleist.
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#18 rfarrell51

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:14 PM

I'm waitng to try the new XP95 to see how it compares not only in spin but in feel to the Nippon 950's or the KBS Tour R's. 62 years old and I too need a little lighter, higher spinning shaft than what I have used in the past, mostly PX 5.5's. I was fitted a year or so ago for the NS Pro 950 in a Mizuno head. But these 714 AP1's have my interest. I think the demo heads will be in my local shop this week.
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#19 Golf64

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:20 PM

I demoed the new 714 AP2s yesterday with the XP 95. I prefer the 950s. Softer feel for me. Less vibration on miss hits.
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#20 rfarrell51

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:29 PM

So the XP95's have more of a Dynamic Gold feel than a Nippon feel? Firmer butt section? Tip?

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#21 puttitin

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:16 PM

 im_Rob, on 27 October 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I had a couple of people asking for 712 vs 714, so I took the challenge.  Very interesting results.

Controls
Same range balls, hand picked so that they were the best I could hit
Same weather, 45*F little to no wind <5mph tail wind
Same person swinging the club
Same club 6i
Same length and lie angle
Same shaft X100

Variables
Swing, I feel my swing is repeatable but I am not an Iron Byron.  I used only averages because of that.

Test
5 balls with each club, then switched models.  I hit 10 balls with each club.  I went all the way through AP1 before switching to AP2.

Results
Interesting to say the least.  Ill let the numbers speak for themselves, but I believe if I was truly in the market it would come down to the appearance of each club.  The 714 AP1 did not set up for me as well as the 712.  The opposite with the AP2.  The 714 looks perfect for me.  

No change to the results
712 vs 714.png

Normalized
Normalized 712 vs 714.png


Do the new AP1's seem physically different from the older ones. I mean ,are they different in size ( heel to toe or height) , or top line or sole width,or leading edge?
You said the new AP1's dont set up as well as the old line. In what way?
Thanks
Driver: PING G20 +G25+ TITLEIST 913 D2
Woods:STEELHEAD III #3+5+7
Hybrids: RBZ 2  #  4 + 5
714 AP1 - MX-200
Putter : Odessey White Hot Tour #1
Wedges: Cleveland CG16 : 52 + 56

#22 im_Rob

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

 puttitin, on 03 November 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

 im_Rob, on 27 October 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I had a couple of people asking for 712 vs 714, so I took the challenge.  Very interesting results.

Controls
Same range balls, hand picked so that they were the best I could hit
Same weather, 45*F little to no wind <5mph tail wind
Same person swinging the club
Same club 6i
Same length and lie angle
Same shaft X100

Variables
Swing, I feel my swing is repeatable but I am not an Iron Byron.  I used only averages because of that.

Test
5 balls with each club, then switched models.  I hit 10 balls with each club.  I went all the way through AP1 before switching to AP2.

Results
Interesting to say the least.  Ill let the numbers speak for themselves, but I believe if I was truly in the market it would come down to the appearance of each club.  The 714 AP1 did not set up for me as well as the 712.  The opposite with the AP2.  The 714 looks perfect for me.  

No change to the results
712 vs 714.png

Normalized
Normalized 712 vs 714.png


Do the new AP1's seem physically different from the older ones. I mean ,are they different in size ( heel to toe or height) , or top line or sole width,or leading edge?
You said the new AP1's dont set up as well as the old line. In what way?
Thanks

I feel that the 714 AP1 were larger overall.  Top line was thicker, offset seemed more pronounced ect...I will admit though I am not opposed to playing game improvement irons, the 714 AP1 seemed like it would push my limit.
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PING i25 Motore Speeder 8.2 Tour Spec
PING i25 Proforce VTS Black 100
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Edel Putter

#23 gvogel

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:12 PM

 Golf64, on 28 October 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

 gvogel, on 27 October 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

So, the 714 AP1's with X100 launch lower than the 712's?   Surprise, surprise; the 714's have stinger lofts.

If you can play AP1's with X100 shafts, you probably want to go with the lofts on the 712's.  Order accordingly.

The new 714 AP1 stock shaft is the Dynalite Gold XP 95.  It is lighter (thanks you Titleist if you are over 50), and launches higher than the Dynalite Gold Xp that was stock in the 712's.  A higher launching shaft (lighter for us old guys) combined with stronger lofts.

Hey, these are great irons.  Play them with X100's with the lofts adjusted 1* weaker, or play them with the new standard lofts with a high launching shaft.  Lots of options, lots of variables.  But, the heads are great.

I have had wonderful rounds with the 712 AP1's., having posted my best 18 hole score ever.  I have ordered the 714's just for the fun of it.  This year I switched from the Nippon 105T shaft in stiff to the 105T in regular - I'm getting older.  Now I find that my misses are left of the target instead of short right, which I think is a good thing.  The R shaft helped me hit a good ball with less effort.

I am going to have a great time deciding whether the Nippon 105T shaft is better for me, versus the new Dynalite gold XP 95.

Once upon a time, there were only hickory shafts….

Later, there was Dynga-wood, which was like bamboo - but that's a different story.  Golf clubs will be perfected when the shaft weighs nothing, when the club head can be controlled by the grip through cosmic force rays - in other words, when the shaft weighs absolutely nothing.  Until then, we have to take into consideration the combination of club head and shaft weight and stiffness.
Try the Nippon 950s, soft, higher and more spin than the 105Ts. I'm in the same boat, getting older and slower. No upcharge with Titleist.

I've tried the 950.  They went too high into the wind.  Also, I felt they were a bit too light for my transition, which tends to get a bit quick.  The slightly heavier (112 gram v. 95 gram) shaft tends to play better for me.

But thanks for the suggestion.
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