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highest spin wedge


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#61 LCP

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

So should I probably just keep the ISI L and SW I have if I want to maximize spin on partial shots in the rough and wet?  I really have no complaints about those. They're not worn out since I didn't play any for so long. Otherwise I was leaning toward new Gorge wedges to replace them when I get a set of I20 irons soon.


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#62 willboyrd

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

 TomWishon, on 26 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

 Pepperturbo, on 26 September 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

All wedges create spin; if for no other reason than loft.  More loft more spin.  


Please, my response post to your comment above is ONLY done to let everyone become aware of a really fascinating point about loft and backspin.  Your comment only made me think about this so I simply wanted to share the point that most golfers are not aware of.

Based on "normal" angle of attack by the golfer, up to a loft of 59*, spin does increase with each increase in loft.  But at 59* and higher, spin DECREASES because this is the point at which the "tilt" of the face becomes so great that the friction between the face and ball is decreased.  Impact becomes much more of a sliding event than a friction event at lofts of 59* and more because the force vector of the ball into the face is deflected more up the face than into the face to thus reduce friction at impact.  

Of course if we're talking about a golfer with a -5*, -6*, -7* or more DOWNWARD angle of attack, such an A of A will deloft the head at impact to the point that this threshold for loft increase vs spin increase keeps going beyond a static loft of 59*.  So that has to be clarified.  

The reason most players with the ability to hit a 60* or higher loft wedge to see the ball stop sooner than it does with a 56* wedge with more backspin comes from the fact that the angle of descent of the 60* and higher loft wedge is more steep, thus reducing the roll of the ball after landing - not from the 60* or higher loft wedge spinning the ball more, which it does not.  

TOM

Phenomenally put. Something I've tried explaining countless times to recreational golfers looking for 64* wedges in the shop. I ask what shots were giving them trouble. to which they replied, "well I hit my 60* about 80 yards and I want something that'll go about 70 yards with a full swing." And I begin to explain that although you may in fact hit a 64* 70 yards, it is trickier to get correct gapping when you get that high in loft because of the fact that contact gets so 'glancing' that compression and spin aren't replicated in the same manner as clubs with lower lofts. Is this assessment correct? Will ball go much shorter than expected in such high lofted clubs because of this sort of 'glancing' impact negatively affecting how much you are able to compress the ball?
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#63 dunn

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:48 AM

 TomWishon, on 26 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

 Fore(ged), on 25 September 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

So Ping's gorge grooves are an aberration of production or is there something else going on with them?

There is only one factor in the design of the face of a wedge that can bring about more spin - creating more FRICTION between the ball and the face.   The more friction between the face and ball, the more the spin is enhanced.  There are only three ways you can design more friction into the impact between the face and the ball.  

1.  Aggressive milling of the face surface is number one.   Circular milling always ends up being more aggressive than any other type of milling like laser etching so it offers the most increase in friction at impact.   Even though there is a USGA limit for how aggressive face milling can be, it still stands as number one for increasing friction at impact because milling covers the flat areas between the scorelines, and these flat areas represent far more surface area on the face.  So more surface area covered by more aggressive milling means more friction between the face and the ball for more spin.  

2.  A rougher face blasting treatment is number two.  Most wedges and irons today are finished with the face blasted with silicon glass beads.  Si bead blasting does not leave the face very rough because the Si beads are just not that aggressive in their ability to add roughness to the face.  But if the face is blasted with a more aggressive media such as aluminum oxide, this leaves the face a lot more rough on the flat areas between the grooves so that friction between the ball and face is increased.  

3.  A sharper top edge of the scorelines that come in contact with the surface of the ball at impact is number three.  Problem is, there is a very specific USGA specification for the radius of the edges of scorelines which is LESS SHARP under the new 2010 groove rule than it used to be under the pre-2010 groove rule guidelines.  So, no matter what a company says or does to create a "new groove" configuration, its edges cannot be sharper than what the stringent 2010 rule says.   However, the 2010 groove radius specifications are incredibly difficult for any clubhead production factory to manufacture with consistency, head after head after head.  There is absolutely no question that if you measured the top edge radius of the grooves on 1000 heads coming off the production line even in a good clubhead production factory, a significant number of the heads would very definitely have groove edges which do not conform to this new 2010 guideline for top edge radius.  Especially if the head is cast.  As such it is possible that two golfers can buy the same wedge and one wedge just happens to have a little sharper line edges than the other, which could show up as a little more spin.  

TOM
only problem is face milling or etching fries pretty fast.....didnt take long at all for 2 or different ones and face was smooth....lije you said and pretty common sense...sharper means more....sharpener works wonders to bring a wedge back to life...

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#64 Holy Moses

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:15 AM

I've always thought that about 60* wedges but never knew why
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#65 stealthrt91

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:36 AM

 TomWishon, on 26 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:


The reason most players with the ability to hit a 60* or higher loft wedge to see the ball stop sooner than it does with a 56* wedge with more backspin comes from the fact that the angle of descent of the 60* and higher loft wedge is more steep, thus reducing the roll of the ball after landing - not from the 60* or higher loft wedge spinning the ball more, which it does not.  


I literally always thought it was from more spin... My mind = :russian_roulette:

Good stuff tom!

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#66 dunn

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:34 PM

 TomWishon, on 26 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

 Fore(ged), on 25 September 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

So Ping's gorge grooves are an aberration of production or is there something else going on with them?

There is only one factor in the design of the face of a wedge that can bring about more spin - creating more FRICTION between the ball and the face.   The more friction between the face and ball, the more the spin is enhanced.  There are only three ways you can design more friction into the impact between the face and the ball.  

1.  Aggressive milling of the face surface is number one.   Circular milling always ends up being more aggressive than any other type of milling like laser etching so it offers the most increase in friction at impact.   Even though there is a USGA limit for how aggressive face milling can be, it still stands as number one for increasing friction at impact because milling covers the flat areas between the scorelines, and these flat areas represent far more surface area on the face.  So more surface area covered by more aggressive milling means more friction between the face and the ball for more spin.  

2.  A rougher face blasting treatment is number two.  Most wedges and irons today are finished with the face blasted with silicon glass beads.  Si bead blasting does not leave the face very rough because the Si beads are just not that aggressive in their ability to add roughness to the face.  But if the face is blasted with a more aggressive media such as aluminum oxide, this leaves the face a lot more rough on the flat areas between the grooves so that friction between the ball and face is increased.  

3.  A sharper top edge of the scorelines that come in contact with the surface of the ball at impact is number three.  Problem is, there is a very specific USGA specification for the radius of the edges of scorelines which is LESS SHARP under the new 2010 groove rule than it used to be under the pre-2010 groove rule guidelines.  So, no matter what a company says or does to create a "new groove" configuration, its edges cannot be sharper than what the stringent 2010 rule says.   However, the 2010 groove radius specifications are incredibly difficult for any clubhead production factory to manufacture with consistency, head after head after head.  There is absolutely no question that if you measured the top edge radius of the grooves on 1000 heads coming off the production line even in a good clubhead production factory, a significant number of the heads would very definitely have groove edges which do not conform to this new 2010 guideline for top edge radius.  Especially if the head is cast.  As such it is possible that two golfers can buy the same wedge and one wedge just happens to have a little sharper line edges than the other, which could show up as a little more spin.  

TOM
only problem is face milling or etching fries pretty fast.....didnt take long at all for 2 or different ones and face was smooth....lije you said and pretty common sense...sharper means more....sharpener works wonders to bring a wedge back to life...

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#67 martinbns

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:05 PM

It must be my game and swing, I have always gotten the most spin from my gap wedge.

It has always been a series of Cleveland, the most recent a 52 non-conforming CG15 that has been in my basement since 2010.
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#68 super20dan

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:54 PM

hard to beat an eye2 sw for spin. esp the older ones. they will even shred a top flite
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#69 Pitchswag

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:04 AM

 TomWishon, on 26 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

 Pepperturbo, on 26 September 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

All wedges create spin; if for no other reason than loft.  More loft more spin.  


Please, my response post to your comment above is ONLY done to let everyone become aware of a really fascinating point about loft and backspin.  Your comment only made me think about this so I simply wanted to share the point that most golfers are not aware of.

Based on "normal" angle of attack by the golfer, up to a loft of 59*, spin does increase with each increase in loft.  But at 59* and higher, spin DECREASES because this is the point at which the "tilt" of the face becomes so great that the friction between the face and ball is decreased.  Impact becomes much more of a sliding event than a friction event at lofts of 59* and more because the force vector of the ball into the face is deflected more up the face than into the face to thus reduce friction at impact.  

Of course if we're talking about a golfer with a -5*, -6*, -7* or more DOWNWARD angle of attack, such an A of A will deloft the head at impact to the point that this threshold for loft increase vs spin increase keeps going beyond a static loft of 59*.  So that has to be clarified.  

The reason most players with the ability to hit a 60* or higher loft wedge to see the ball stop sooner than it does with a 56* wedge with more backspin comes from the fact that the angle of descent of the 60* and higher loft wedge is more steep, thus reducing the roll of the ball after landing - not from the 60* or higher loft wedge spinning the ball more, which it does not.  

TOM

Yeah, what I've tried to explain to them. Thanks for the explanation.

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#70 pmcuk

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

Bringing balls into the equation, how much spin is the wedge and how much is the ball - like spinny urethane ones?


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#71 TomWishon

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:41 PM

 willboyrd, on 26 September 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

And I begin to explain that although you may in fact hit a 64* 70 yards, it is trickier to get correct gapping when you get that high in loft because of the fact that contact gets so 'glancing' that compression and spin aren't replicated in the same manner as clubs with lower lofts. Is this assessment correct? Will ball go much shorter than expected in such high lofted clubs because of this sort of 'glancing' impact negatively affecting how much you are able to compress the ball?

What you say is true, but mainly because of the fact that with so much loft, the face is tilted so much that if the ball is sitting up even a little in the grass or if the golfer sends the clubhead just a little lower under the ball, the impact point gets to be farther up the face due to the face being tilted so much due to that high of a loft.   And we all know what happens when impact happens higher on the face - far less energy transfer to the ball so the ball in no way flies as far as it will when hit lower on the face much closer to the head's CG.  With a >60* wedge, the ball flies into that bunker or water hazard that you wanted to loft it over in the first place.  

TOM

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#72 bside

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:45 PM

One thing I'd like to suggest is that while a 58 will spin more than a >= 59 at a given angle of attack (which I'll call A*), would it not spin less than those clubs with a higher static loft at a given angle of launch (L*).  The reason for this would be that the 60* wedge would have to be hit at a steeper downward A* to give you the same L*

Edited by bside, 30 September 2013 - 02:55 PM.


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#73 jmccaff

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:44 PM

I just put the Mizuno MPT-4's in the bag last week and they may spin too much?  Many times on pitch shots the ball just landed and stopped with hardly any roll
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#74 Pepperturbo

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

 jmccaff, on 30 September 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I just put the Mizuno MPT-4's in the bag last week and they may spin too much?  Many times on pitch shots the ball just landed and stopped with hardly any roll

That might be the result of DG Spinner shafts, which I do not like.  I tested them; too high and their tips are too active.  I want to be able to control spin, not have the shaft, club face and ball doing what they want if combined.
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#75 Runbird_513

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:26 PM

 Pepperturbo, on 30 September 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:


That might be the result of DG Spinner shafts, which I do not like.  I tested them; too high and their tips are too active.  I want to be able to control spin, not have the shaft, club face and ball doing what they want if combined.

I agree. I'm not sure of the Spinner shaft yet myself. I think they feel a little weird in general.

As for the topic, if you don't care about non-conforming, I don't think the old Vokey SM wedges have an equal. There were times I got backspin out of the heavy rough from 10 yards off the green with those wedges.


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#76 Pepperturbo

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

 Runbird_513, on 30 September 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

 Pepperturbo, on 30 September 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

That might be the result of DG Spinner shafts, which I do not like.  I tested them; too high and their tips are too active.  I want to be able to control spin, not have the shaft, club face and ball doing what they want if combined.

I agree. I'm not sure of the Spinner shaft yet myself. I think they feel a little weird in general.

As for the topic, if you don't care about non-conforming, I don't think the old Vokey SM wedges have an equal. There were times I got backspin out of the heavy rough from 10 yards off the green with those wedges.

Yes, they are good wedges, but I won't play non-conforming due to some of the tournaments I enter.  I do love this game.
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#77 Runbird_513

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:38 PM

I won't play N.C. either. I think one of the great things about golf, is that we all play the same game.

That said, I don't take penalty strokes for balls lost that are obviously in bounds, and just buried in some thick grass in the rough or under a leaf. The best players in the world have 20 spotters, and hundreds of fans locating their stray balls. I don't feel bad about it.

Aside from that, I use a Hammer driver with illegal amounts of Zolex, but you can't blame me for that. Pow.

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#78 willboyrd

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:46 PM

 TomWishon, on 30 September 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

 willboyrd, on 26 September 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

And I begin to explain that although you may in fact hit a 64* 70 yards, it is trickier to get correct gapping when you get that high in loft because of the fact that contact gets so 'glancing' that compression and spin aren't replicated in the same manner as clubs with lower lofts. Is this assessment correct? Will ball go much shorter than expected in such high lofted clubs because of this sort of 'glancing' impact negatively affecting how much you are able to compress the ball?

What you say is true, but mainly because of the fact that with so much loft, the face is tilted so much that if the ball is sitting up even a little in the grass or if the golfer sends the clubhead just a little lower under the ball, the impact point gets to be farther up the face due to the face being tilted so much due to that high of a loft.   And we all know what happens when impact happens higher on the face - far less energy transfer to the ball so the ball in no way flies as far as it will when hit lower on the face much closer to the head's CG.  With a >60* wedge, the ball flies into that bunker or water hazard that you wanted to loft it over in the first place.  

TOM

Thanks as always for taking the time to answer Tom. I wonder if my customers would believe me if I told them I correspond with you on message boards somewhat frequently. Lol
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#79 mr smith

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:14 PM

Nike VR forged and any Cally Jaws MD spin more than any other oem wedge, but there is a youtube video about some ridiculously illegal novelty wedge that spins the absolute backside off the ball but cant recall the name. I have heard from someone that bought thrm that they are legit super spinners, but spin so much they are only really useful for trick shots and joking around in practice. One point made I agree with is that most wedges spin about the same from full shots from the fairway, the old non xonforming monsters are only noticably better at stopping from chips and pitches or shots from the rough. Personally I prefer a wedge that has some stopping power but wont shred a ball, although Ive been toying with dropping a fw and putting in a Cally MD for use around the green or from the rough only. I use my 60 in bunkers so it wears down too quick and doesnt have enough grip around the greens.

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#80 Hazlo

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:10 PM

“There is only one factor in the design of the face of a wedge that can bring about more spin - creating more FRICTION between the ball and the face.   The more friction between the face and ball, the more the spin is enhanced.  There are only three ways you can design more friction into the impact between the face and the ball.  

1.  Aggressive milling of the face surface is number one.   Circular milling always ends up being more aggressive than any other type of milling like laser etching so it offers the most increase in friction at impact.   Even though there is a USGA limit for how aggressive face milling can be, it still stands as number one for increasing friction at impact because milling covers the flat areas between the scorelines, and these flat areas represent far more surface area on the face.  So more surface area covered by more aggressive milling means more friction between the face and the ball for more spin.  

2.  A rougher face blasting treatment is number two.  Most wedges and irons today are finished with the face blasted with silicon glass beads.  Si bead blasting does not leave the face very rough because the Si beads are just not that aggressive in their ability to add roughness to the face.  But if the face is blasted with a more aggressive media such as aluminum oxide, this leaves the face a lot more rough on the flat areas between the grooves so that friction between the ball and face is increased.  

3.  A sharper top edge of the scorelines that come in contact with the surface of the ball at impact is number three.  Problem is, there is a very specific USGA specification for the radius of the edges of scorelines which is LESS SHARP under the new 2010 groove rule than it used to be under the pre-2010 groove rule guidelines.  So, no matter what a company says or does to create a "new groove" configuration, its edges cannot be sharper than what the stringent 2010 rule says.   However, the 2010 groove radius specifications are incredibly difficult for any clubhead production factory to manufacture with consistency, head after head after head.  There is absolutely no question that if you measured the top edge radius of the grooves on 1000 heads coming off the production line even in a good clubhead production factory, a significant number of the heads would very definitely have groove edges which do not conform to this new 2010 guideline for top edge radius.  Especially if the head is cast.  As such it is possible that two golfers can buy the same wedge and one wedge just happens to have a little sharper line edges than the other, which could show up as a little more spin.  

TOM”

How long does the typical cnc milling usually last on a wedge before normal wear and tear renders the milling lines smooth?

Edited by Hazlo, 10 October 2018 - 11:11 PM.


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#81 gambit

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:38 PM

 Hazlo, on 10 October 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

“There is only one factor in the design of the face of a wedge that can bring about more spin - creating more FRICTION between the ball and the face.   The more friction between the face and ball, the more the spin is enhanced.  There are only three ways you can design more friction into the impact between the face and the ball.  

1.  Aggressive milling of the face surface is number one.   Circular milling always ends up being more aggressive than any other type of milling like laser etching so it offers the most increase in friction at impact.   Even though there is a USGA limit for how aggressive face milling can be, it still stands as number one for increasing friction at impact because milling covers the flat areas between the scorelines, and these flat areas represent far more surface area on the face.  So more surface area covered by more aggressive milling means more friction between the face and the ball for more spin.  

2.  A rougher face blasting treatment is number two.  Most wedges and irons today are finished with the face blasted with silicon glass beads.  Si bead blasting does not leave the face very rough because the Si beads are just not that aggressive in their ability to add roughness to the face.  But if the face is blasted with a more aggressive media such as aluminum oxide, this leaves the face a lot more rough on the flat areas between the grooves so that friction between the ball and face is increased.  

3.  A sharper top edge of the scorelines that come in contact with the surface of the ball at impact is number three.  Problem is, there is a very specific USGA specification for the radius of the edges of scorelines which is LESS SHARP under the new 2010 groove rule than it used to be under the pre-2010 groove rule guidelines.  So, no matter what a company says or does to create a "new groove" configuration, its edges cannot be sharper than what the stringent 2010 rule says.   However, the 2010 groove radius specifications are incredibly difficult for any clubhead production factory to manufacture with consistency, head after head after head.  There is absolutely no question that if you measured the top edge radius of the grooves on 1000 heads coming off the production line even in a good clubhead production factory, a significant number of the heads would very definitely have groove edges which do not conform to this new 2010 guideline for top edge radius.  Especially if the head is cast.  As such it is possible that two golfers can buy the same wedge and one wedge just happens to have a little sharper line edges than the other, which could show up as a little more spin.  

TOM”

How long does the typical cnc milling usually last on a wedge before normal wear and tear renders the milling lines smooth?

Bro did u revive a 5 year old thread just outta the blue?
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#82 Jordan Speeth

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:44 PM

This new 58*-6 RTX4 spins em pretty good for me, and I play a black B330.
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#83 SwingMan

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:25 AM

 shortstack31489, on 20 September 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

title says it all! I have looked at all the current options in store but do not have the option to hit any. And does the face laser milling actually a benefit or is that snake oil? thanks

Read a few wive's tales perusing the thread. Manufacturers have done a great job overcoming the "new' rules on grooves and working within the rules to get great spin. MIlling on face makes it flat, milling grooves makes them more precise as to the design. Most OEMs give you great spin, but you've got to have a great ball - urethane - I played several balls this season - Callaway Chrome Soft, ProV1x, Snell MTB Red - all were excellent on spin. Didn't play Srixon or TM or B/S so I can't comment.

Guys would see me chip or pitch, think that's going off the green, hit before the hole and skip, stop. That's what I want a ball to do most of the time. If I want roll, I turn the club over.

Spin is also about technique - the OEMs can't do everything for you. Look up Stan Utley on youtube.

Edited by SwingMan, 11 October 2018 - 06:30 AM.

"My swing is so bad, I look like a caveman killing his lunch" - Lee Trevino

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#84 bladehunter

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 11:13 AM

Highest spin wedge I ever saw is a Kyoei forged Vega that was non conforming ( built before 2010).  Had a razor sharp leading edge and on every full shot you had to clean golf ball cover from the grooves. It literaly shredded balls.  I could move the golf ball and get it to spin back or sideways on greens like nothing I’ve ever played.  Just nasty.
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#85 Z1ggy16

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 11:17 AM

My TM RAC's literally rip the covered off of balls.

Pretty much pre-conforming wedge that's new, will absolutely tear balls up (and spin a crap ton). The biggest difference though is out of the rough. I've hit like 80 yard shots with a SW out of rough and stopped the ball on a dime. With a normal wedge now, that's still rolling out a bit.

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#86 tobiasjd

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:07 PM

The Glide 2.0s spin really well.  The 8620 Stealth is soft.  Vokeys spin nice.  It’s mostly gonna be about the ball you use.
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#87 jonn443

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 02:41 PM

 Hazlo, on 10 October 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

“There is only one factor in the design of the face of a wedge that can bring about more spin - creating more FRICTION between the ball and the face.   The more friction between the face and ball, the more the spin is enhanced.  There are only three ways you can design more friction into the impact between the face and the ball.  

1.  Aggressive milling of the face surface is number one.   Circular milling always ends up being more aggressive than any other type of milling like laser etching so it offers the most increase in friction at impact.   Even though there is a USGA limit for how aggressive face milling can be, it still stands as number one for increasing friction at impact because milling covers the flat areas between the scorelines, and these flat areas represent far more surface area on the face.  So more surface area covered by more aggressive milling means more friction between the face and the ball for more spin.  

2.  A rougher face blasting treatment is number two.  Most wedges and irons today are finished with the face blasted with silicon glass beads.  Si bead blasting does not leave the face very rough because the Si beads are just not that aggressive in their ability to add roughness to the face.  But if the face is blasted with a more aggressive media such as aluminum oxide, this leaves the face a lot more rough on the flat areas between the grooves so that friction between the ball and face is increased.  

3.  A sharper top edge of the scorelines that come in contact with the surface of the ball at impact is number three.  Problem is, there is a very specific USGA specification for the radius of the edges of scorelines which is LESS SHARP under the new 2010 groove rule than it used to be under the pre-2010 groove rule guidelines.  So, no matter what a company says or does to create a "new groove" configuration, its edges cannot be sharper than what the stringent 2010 rule says.   However, the 2010 groove radius specifications are incredibly difficult for any clubhead production factory to manufacture with consistency, head after head after head.  There is absolutely no question that if you measured the top edge radius of the grooves on 1000 heads coming off the production line even in a good clubhead production factory, a significant number of the heads would very definitely have groove edges which do not conform to this new 2010 guideline for top edge radius.  Especially if the head is cast.  As such it is possible that two golfers can buy the same wedge and one wedge just happens to have a little sharper line edges than the other, which could show up as a little more spin.  

TOM”

How long does the typical cnc milling usually last on a wedge before normal wear and tear renders the milling lines smooth?

Someone's bored.
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#88 JDax

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:01 PM

I need to find some of the older wedges and try them out.

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#89 RogerinNewZealand

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:16 PM

I hear you !!!  Trusty SM2 ....

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Edited by RogerinNewZealand, 12 October 2018 - 08:16 PM.

2018  9th Nov

Ping i15  11 degrees
Ping i 25 5 wood 18 degrees or
Cally X2Hot 4 wood 17 degrees

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#90 nohny noke

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:22 PM

Boccieri Heavy Wedge. Extra mass helps.


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