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Leading with the right elbow


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#391 Hawkeye77

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:34 PM

 Ripper212, on 11 September 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

 Schnee, on 11 September 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

 lhahn, on 11 September 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

 disco111, on 11 September 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Didn't go through all 13 pages, so if this has already been offered, then sorry for the additional post...............If you want a simple training tip for the right elbow being in position and it's one that lots of pro's have used, VJ comes directly to mind, take a head cover/folded towel or whatever and put it under your right arm pit or left if you a lefty. Make your swing and don't let it slip out.

Monte loves this drill

��

I thought he hated this drill - no?

Sarcasm!


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#392 Schnee

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:39 PM

 Ripper212, on 11 September 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

 Schnee, on 11 September 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

 lhahn, on 11 September 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

 disco111, on 11 September 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Didn't go through all 13 pages, so if this has already been offered, then sorry for the additional post...............If you want a simple training tip for the right elbow being in position and it's one that lots of pro's have used, VJ comes directly to mind, take a head cover/folded towel or whatever and put it under your right arm pit or left if you a lefty. Make your swing and don't let it slip out.

Monte loves this drill

��

I thought he hated this drill - no?

Yes. He hates it.
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#393 Ripper212

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:28 PM

 Schnee, on 11 September 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

 Ripper212, on 11 September 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

 Schnee, on 11 September 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

 lhahn, on 11 September 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

 disco111, on 11 September 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Didn't go through all 13 pages, so if this has already been offered, then sorry for the additional post...............If you want a simple training tip for the right elbow being in position and it's one that lots of pro's have used, VJ comes directly to mind, take a head cover/folded towel or whatever and put it under your right arm pit or left if you a lefty. Make your swing and don't let it slip out.

Monte loves this drill

��

I thought he hated this drill - no?

Yes. He hates it.

thought you were being sarcastic, just wasn't sure
And here I was ready to go out and try it!

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#394 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:42 PM

https://answers.yaho...21194533AASzVFc

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#395 Ripper212

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:02 PM

that's pretty funny but leads me to wonder - are there any situations where you think that drill could possibly be useful - to correct flying elbow perhaps?


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#396 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:07 PM

 Ripper212, on 11 September 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

that's pretty funny but leads me to wonder - are there any situations where you think that drill could possibly be useful - to correct flying elbow perhaps?

Flying elbow is not necessarily bad, but a drill/swing thought of keeping elbows together is better than one keeping your elbow pinned to your side.

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#397 Ripper212

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:10 PM

 MonteScheinblum, on 11 September 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

 Ripper212, on 11 September 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

that's pretty funny but leads me to wonder - are there any situations where you think that drill could possibly be useful - to correct flying elbow perhaps?

Flying elbow is not necessarily bad, but a drill/swing thought of keeping elbows together is better than one keeping your elbow pinned to your side.

I like that.  Leave it to you for simple but elegant explanations. Thanks.

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#398 lawrencedc1

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:44 PM

albert-einstein-quote.jpg

Edited by lawrencedc1, 11 September 2017 - 03:47 PM.


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#399 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:49 PM

 lawrencedc1, on 11 September 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Brevity is the soul of wit!

People ask me what my swing model is.  I respond, "Elminate excess movements, while not limiting free movement."

Assuming flying right elbow is an excess movement, the glove and towel drills underneath the pits, limit free movement, IMO.

The irony is, I sometimes use this drill...and have people drop the glove.

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#400 disco111

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 06:04 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=EEjGZ4p-Nd8

Watch DJ's swing and you will see that his upper arm is against his body, which the head cover under the arm pit drill is training you to do. While I don't recommend pinning the elbow to your body, this drill does not and should not instill that. Watch the vid and determine for yourself.


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#401 Hackinator

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 08:56 PM

Can anyone tell me if letting the clubhead fall behind on the downswing is good swing thought to get the elbow in the correct position.

So it feels like the clubhead is dropping  "behind" you by gravity.

This seems to put my right elbow in a position where it can lead.

Without the clubhead dropping behind me I dont think I am flexible enough to get the right elbow in a position where it can lead.

If I try to manipulate the elbow into position by bending the arm I just cant seem to do it.

Edited by Hackinator, 11 September 2017 - 09:01 PM.


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#402 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:18 PM

 MonteScheinblum, on 11 September 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

 lawrencedc1, on 11 September 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Brevity is the soul of wit!

People ask me what my swing model is.  I respond, "Elminate excess movements, while not limiting free movement."

Assuming flying right elbow is an excess movement, the glove and towel drills underneath the pits, limit free movement, IMO.

The irony is, I sometimes use this drill...and have people drop the glove.

Where does a bent left elbow fit in? Is it excess movement to be eliminated, or is it a free movement not to be inhibited? Or, does it depend on the individual?

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#403 northgolf

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:31 PM

 Petunia Sprinkle, on 11 September 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

 MonteScheinblum, on 11 September 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

 lawrencedc1, on 11 September 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Brevity is the soul of wit!

People ask me what my swing model is.  I respond, "Elminate excess movements, while not limiting free movement."

Assuming flying right elbow is an excess movement, the glove and towel drills underneath the pits, limit free movement, IMO.

The irony is, I sometimes use this drill...and have people drop the glove.

Where does a bent left elbow fit in? Is it excess movement to be eliminated, or is it a free movement not to be inhibited? Or, does it depend on the individual?

At what point in the swing?
If I do this 11,548 more times, I will be having fun.  - Zippy the Pinhead

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#404 northgolf

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:33 PM

 MonteScheinblum, on 11 September 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:


I think you might prefer to be a fortunate Frenchman named Peter over doing that drill.
If I do this 11,548 more times, I will be having fun.  - Zippy the Pinhead

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#405 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:37 PM

 northgolf, on 11 September 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

 Petunia Sprinkle, on 11 September 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

 MonteScheinblum, on 11 September 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

 lawrencedc1, on 11 September 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Brevity is the soul of wit!

People ask me what my swing model is.  I respond, "Elminate excess movements, while not limiting free movement."

Assuming flying right elbow is an excess movement, the glove and towel drills underneath the pits, limit free movement, IMO.

The irony is, I sometimes use this drill...and have people drop the glove.

Where does a bent left elbow fit in? Is it excess movement to be eliminated, or is it a free movement not to be inhibited? Or, does it depend on the individual?

At what point in the swing?

Backswing. Mine bends on the way back and straightens out on the way down.


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#406 dap

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 12:22 AM

The correct right elbow move is essentially external rotation of the rear shoulder. If you try to lead with the right elbow without ER all you will do is add way too much axis tilt too early. The feeling should be like holding a tray of drinks with your right hand at the top and then coming down holding that tray intact through the strike without spilling the drinks.

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#407 coops

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:12 AM

 dap, on 12 September 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

The correct right elbow move is essentially external rotation of the rear shoulder. If you try to lead with the right elbow without ER all you will do is add way too much axis tilt too early. The feeling should be like holding a tray of drinks with your right hand at the top and then coming down holding that tray intact through the strike without spilling the drinks.

this is exactly what i stumbled on....couldn't get the right elbow to chase the belly button etc, or lead.

For me, and anyone else prone to goat humping, i reckon a tendency to go into internal right shoulder way too early.... means doing this has to feel like you try to increase the right wrist bend, increase that right shoulder external rotation at transition ( even if in reality we only 'hold' it there a bit...).

It'll feel mighty weird - but through impact will feel so much better - and may also feel way too open... an extra feel of also trying to/feeling like you're cranking the left wrist at the same time... as if bending the palm towards the arm (like releasing the the twist grip on a motorbike etc, decreasing the revs).

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#408 wkndhack

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:43 AM

 Hackinator, on 11 September 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me if letting the clubhead fall behind on the downswing is good swing thought to get the elbow in the correct position.

So it feels like the clubhead is dropping  "behind" you by gravity.

This seems to put my right elbow in a position where it can lead.

Without the clubhead dropping behind me I dont think I am flexible enough to get the right elbow in a position where it can lead.

If I try to manipulate the elbow into position by bending the arm I just cant seem to do it.
I tried this and for me, it led to dropping it with my hands and wrists instead of external shoulder rotation and gave me release issues.

I like the drink tray feeling mentioned.

You want the result you described, but that dropping thought alone may get the clubhead in a better position but not your arms.

Edited by wkndhack, 12 September 2017 - 08:45 AM.

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#409 Hackinator

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:34 PM

 wkndhack, on 12 September 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

 Hackinator, on 11 September 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me if letting the clubhead fall behind on the downswing is good swing thought to get the elbow in the correct position.

So it feels like the clubhead is dropping  "behind" you by gravity.

This seems to put my right elbow in a position where it can lead.

Without the clubhead dropping behind me I dont think I am flexible enough to get the right elbow in a position where it can lead.

If I try to manipulate the elbow into position by bending the arm I just cant seem to do it.
I tried this and for me, it led to dropping it with my hands and wrists instead of external shoulder rotation and gave me release issues.

I like the drink tray feeling mentioned.

You want the result you described, but that dropping thought alone may get the clubhead in a better position but not your arms.

I am not dropping the arms , just the clubhead.  Well I'm sure the arms are  dropping some,  but not nearly as much as the clubhead.
I think i am shallowing the shaft a lot, but I don't have video so not sure what it looks like.
It feel like the shaft is parallel to the ground midway thru my downswing, but I dont know if this is really reality without the video.

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#410 Hilts1969

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 04:56 AM

 Hackinator, on 12 September 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

 wkndhack, on 12 September 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

 Hackinator, on 11 September 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me if letting the clubhead fall behind on the downswing is good swing thought to get the elbow in the correct position.

So it feels like the clubhead is dropping  "behind" you by gravity.

This seems to put my right elbow in a position where it can lead.

Without the clubhead dropping behind me I dont think I am flexible enough to get the right elbow in a position where it can lead.

If I try to manipulate the elbow into position by bending the arm I just cant seem to do it.
I tried this and for me, it led to dropping it with my hands and wrists instead of external shoulder rotation and gave me release issues.

I like the drink tray feeling mentioned.

You want the result you described, but that dropping thought alone may get the clubhead in a better position but not your arms.

I am not dropping the arms , just the clubhead.  Well I'm sure the arms are  dropping some,  but not nearly as much as the clubhead.
I think i am shallowing the shaft a lot, but I don't have video so not sure what it looks like.
It feel like the shaft is parallel to the ground midway thru my downswing, but I dont know if this is really reality without the video.

Do you not find that hard to time?


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#411 Atrayn

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:26 AM

What about concentrating on maintaining tilt instead? Many people lose the elbow position simply because it is a necessary subconscious result?
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#412 rsballer10

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

Has anyone tried tucking the right elbow in during the backswing?

I tried keeping my elbows close together at the range and felt it easier to get the elbow leading in transition, instead of getting stuck behind me.

On my practice swings I can actually sometimes feel my right elbow bump into my hip

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#413 golfie1

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:00 PM

Sure do. No need to move the right elbow from it's station at address relative to the right shoulder.

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#414 Swick73

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 05:06 PM

Found this to be my main fault!  I kept digging my right elbow in my side and would get stuck.  Now I'm starting to find the center of club face

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#415 games

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 05:21 PM

Monte's concept is completely solid.  Tough part is to make it work as you get older.  There's nowhere for that elbow to go!  But, you have to find a way.  Credit Schnee!  Big, young, strong, guy.  Great mechanics and worked hard to win multiple club championships.

And, credit Monte, who works with those of us on the "sunny" side of 40.  <ok 50>
It's easy to work with young talent that have the room, or the ability to make room, for this move.

I'm learning it now, at the "downside" of 50.  Not easy as a lefty playing RH.  Trusting your right elbow to make this move is the equivalent of trusting a high bounce sand wedge to be your main scoring club.  But, once learned...

Edited by games, 17 September 2017 - 05:22 PM.

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#416 JetPilot

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:06 PM

 rsballer10, on 13 September 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Has anyone tried tucking the right elbow in during the backswing?

I tried keeping my elbows close together at the range and felt it easier to get the elbow leading in transition, instead of getting stuck behind me.

On my practice swings I can actually sometimes feel my right elbow bump into my hip

This has been a huge/major find for me.  Once I turn my body to put the club parallel to the ground in the BS, I FEEL that my right elbow LOCKS in place.  As I turn to the top, I just let my right forearm "do what it wants to do" (move upwards) and FEEL that my right hand gets a lot of extension.

In transition, I feel my right elbow leading and the shaft FEELS horizontal to the ground.  Never hit it better and have literally picked up 20 yards.  It's been fun.

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