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My GolfTec Experience - along with pics and video


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#1 dtwainright

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 10:12 PM

I went to Golf Tec a little over a week ago and I wanted to give you all my review of the initial "swing evaluation".  
When I made my appointment I was told that the lesson would be stored online and could be accessed anytime...I thought "Cool!"
Anyway - when I showed up my Pro introduced himself and we made some small talk about my golf background and my goals.  

He let me warm up by taking some swings with my five iron, and then he hooked up me up to the sensor machine that would later show all of my swing angles (more on that later).  I took about 3-4 swings and he took my best swing and continued on with the lesson.

In all of these pictures I'm using my 5 iron and this shot went 178 off a tee.  

Here is the first picture. Right now he is just going over what the angles are and what the color codes mean. Green means "Within PGA Tour Average"...Yellow means "Close (within a couple of degrees of) to the PGA Tour Average" and Red means "Outside of PGA Tour Averages".
Posted Image


My pro decided to compare me to Stuart Appleby...not too sure why but I love Stuart's swing so I wasn't too upset.
Here - the first thing he points out is that my arms hang too far inside. He said this is happening because I'm too bent over.  
He also noted that I have a tad too much shoulder bend...not sure what that means but can you see that little yellow line on my shoulders?
Can someone tell me how to reduce that bend?
Posted Image

Next we talked about ball position. You can see that it's too far back - something that I know I need to work on but haven't had a lot of range time to do so.
Posted Image

Here is the start of my back swing. Not too bad...Since I'm bent over so much he said that my shoulders turn too steep. I could also work on keeping the club on plane a little better here.
Posted Image

Halfway back...Shoulder tilt even steeper but I've gotten my club on plane pretty well here - but it's still pointing outside of the ball. I'm just guessing that with a taller stance it'll be easier to keep the club pointing inside the ball.
Posted Image

Top of my back swing....Not too bad here. He said that my positions look pretty good.  
Posted Image


Top of my back swing (face on). I was really surprised when he told me that I have 96* of shoulder turn! Sweet! I also don't seem to be swaying off the ball...something that I have worked on for a while.
Posted Image

Start of the down swing...not too bad here either...but I want you all to watch my head. It's evident here that I am starting to move away from the ball and will continue to do so.
Posted Image

Near impact...All of my numbers look good and I'm coming into the ball pretty well. But watch that head - I'm moving further away and I'm actually raising up through impact **NOT GOOD**  :russian_roulette:  
Posted Image

IMPACT! I hit this ball 178 yards so it wasn't horrible but my head has moved even more. My pro said that my head has raised up to the point where it should have been at address. My spine angle has changed since I'm moving my head too much.
Posted Image

Hands even with the club head @ impact...no surprise here since I'm coming out of my posture.
Posted Image

Release...not too bad. He said that my release was pretty good.
Posted Image

Finish...He said that I could rotate better but that would come with a better set up and address.  
Posted Image

Final Picture...That green box is where my head is at address. So you can really see that I raise my head up and actually move backwards...who does that? Other than me.
Posted Image

Anyway - my pro wants me to work on three main things:
1. Grip - wants it more in the fingers which should help hold the angle through impact.
2. Set up - stand taller with my arms in a more neutral position (or slightly outward)
3. Ball Position - move it up a little and I won't feel cramped leading to me standing up through impact.

Overall I'm satisfied with GolfTec and the service they provide. I left there definitely wanting to take more lessons. And I get the ok from the boss I will do just that. They are in the business of selling lesson plans and after we went through all of this - he didn't even let me take some more swings. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Please let me know what you think and I will upload the video as soon as possible.

--TW


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#2 Gallery_moecat_*

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:14 AM

Pretty cool stuff! :russian_roulette:

I think it's really helpful to have the pics and vids available to you online.

The only con I can think of is the fact that you're indoors and the sensors that gauge distance may not always be reliable (like the simulators one sees at some golf shops).  But I wouldn't worry about that - whatever fixes you're successfully able to make should be reflected in your subsequent scores, and that's what counts

#3 imabeatonu

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 01:35 PM

wow thats unreal... im extremely impressed with golftec after this, i thought it was just for hackers, but apparently they know their stuff... wish they had one near me in central ny...

#4 cdesana

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 01:45 PM

Since I have struggled with posture as well. I will give you a couple things that have helped me in the past.

At address try to imagine yourself being a little taller. Or as my pro used to say a** out, chest out and shoulders back.

This has helped me hit tons, particularly on my long irons and woods. When I would have bad posture I had the tendency to hit huge sweeping hooks. Now with better posture have the option to work the ball both ways.

#5 hoganfan924

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:58 PM

Wow!  Lots of stuff going on there.

First off, I see a few issues with your set-up (I'm being very picky here):

1. You hips are shifted rearward (away from the target) with a high right hip.  In the face on view, your spine angle is actually tilted toward the target.  You need to move the hips forward about 2 to 4 inches so that your chest and head are stacked right over your hips.
2. You're standing too close to the ball which causes the "cramped" look and feel of your swing through the impact zone.  Your hands need to be under your chin, not shoulder sockets.  Looks like your trying the "one plane" model type swing (1PS).  You have a 1PS set-up (except as noted above) but a 2-plane type release.  Part of the reason for this is you're standing too close to the ball (and I agree a little too far back in your stance)
4. I'd agree with the instructor that you might be slightly overdoing it with the spine tilt forward at address, but only by about 5 deg. IMHO if you are trying to achieve a 1PS.
5. Your stance looks a couple of inches too narrow and your left foot needs to flare out a little more - this will allow for better rotation into the follow-through

There are actually 3 spine angles in the DTL view (lumbar, thoracic, cervical) so your shoulder bend that the instuctor commented on is of no significance, you don't need to do anything there.  You might be overdoing it a bit with your pelvic tilt (sticking your arse out too far!) causing a concavity in your lumber spine.

Given the limitation of your set-up, you top of BS position looks excellent.  The only thing I see there of some concern is that it appears you may be locking out your left elbow (it appears slightly hyperextended).

In transition, you pull your hands down and "stand up" because that's the only way your going to be able to hit the ball without hitting it fat or shanking (because you stand too close to it - this is also why you've moved the ball back in your stance - avoiding the fat shot).  A good 1PS should have the hands/arms swinging out more.  Notice how in transition, your shaft angle has steepened (not good) while Appleby's has flattened and points outside the ball (good)?  Try swinging without a ball on grass, swing out much more in transition and notice where your divots are, then reposition your ball.

At impact, is where I'm really questioning the Golftec data.  Your hips and shoulders appear much too closed to me (and much too closed for a good 1PS - compare the pics to Appleby) but the Golftec data says you're good there.

This points out the fundamental problem with the Golftec "model," it's an amalgamation of all kinds of different swings.  A 1PS needs to have the hips and shoulders much more open at impact than a 2PS, but Golftec doesn't appear to make this distinction and might be giving you confliction information ("mixing fundamentals" as Hardy might say).

Need the DTL post impact shots.

Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Edited by hoganfan924, 25 April 2007 - 09:18 PM.


#6 dtwainright

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:03 PM

Thank you all for your replies. I was pretty impressed with what I saw and what my pro suggested. I'd like some outdoor lessons combined with the video analysis. I'm afraid that I might get too used to seeing my swing on video and I loose the feel of my outside swing.

I'm having a little trouble uploading the video. I'll try to get it posted as soon as I can.

Regards,
TW

#7 Guillotine007

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:42 PM

i've been super happy with my golftec lessons.  taken them for a little over a year and cut hcp from 12 to 4.  i strongly recommend it to everyone!

#8 againstthegrain

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:41 AM

I took a 3D last October, it certainly is enlightening.  I think you are well on the way to a very fine swing.  Good luck and work hard, it will come quickly as you are doing tons of stuff correctly.

#9 mikpga

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:56 AM

It is amazing, we hear it all the time...PRE-SWING FUNDAMENTALS...

1. Grip
2. Set-Up
3. Posture

After all these year, and advances in technology...It still comes back to what we do before we swing the club...

Good Stuff!

#10 hoganfan924

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:08 AM

View Postmikpga, on May 2 2007, 08:56 AM, said:

It is amazing, we hear it all the time...PRE-SWING FUNDAMENTALS...

1. Grip
2. Set-Up
3. Posture

After all these year, and advances in technology...It still comes back to what we do before we swing the club...

Good Stuff!

Funny,  was just discussing this last night with Slicefixer.  No reason an 80 year old granny can't look like a tour pro standing at address - requires no talent whatsoever - Zero.


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#11 idrive400yards

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:44 AM

View PostGuillotine007, on May 1 2007, 11:42 PM, said:

i've been super happy with my golftec lessons.  taken them for a little over a year and cut hcp from 12 to 4.  i strongly recommend it to everyone!


I'm taking my first golftec lesson next week, gonna work primarily on the driver since that is what I have the most problem with.

#12 imabeatonu

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 01:25 PM

itd be great if someone else could post their lessons...

#13 docbarnes

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 01:54 PM

I have been to GolfTEC and I must say that the ability to get instant feedback is what sold me on this.  GolfTEC is in the business of helping people play better golf.  While it is indoor, it does help the golfer focus on what fundamentally makes the swing work.  Many of the golf schools start off hitting balls outside, but then you head inside for swing analysis and instruction.

Ball flight is a result of the swing.  I highly recommend people visit a GolfTEC and see for themselves.

#14 leekgolf

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:51 PM

View Postdocbarnes, on May 2 2007, 02:54 PM, said:

I have been to GolfTEC and I must say that the ability to get instant feedback is what sold me on this.  GolfTEC is in the business of helping people play better golf.  While it is indoor, it does help the golfer focus on what fundamentally makes the swing work.  Many of the golf schools start off hitting balls outside, but then you head inside for swing analysis and instruction.

Ball flight is a result of the swing.  I highly recommend people visit a GolfTEC and see for themselves.


The really good teachers focus on diagnosing your swing, then finding a way to get you to perform the changes quickly and properly. GolfTec just doesn't have the ability to hire people with years of experience who know many ways to get their students to swing correctly. I'm in the technology business and technology will NEVER replace the people who are skilled teachers.

#15 dtwainright

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:04 PM

View Postleekgolf, on May 2 2007, 07:51 PM, said:

View Postdocbarnes, on May 2 2007, 02:54 PM, said:

I have been to GolfTEC and I must say that the ability to get instant feedback is what sold me on this.  GolfTEC is in the business of helping people play better golf.  While it is indoor, it does help the golfer focus on what fundamentally makes the swing work.  Many of the golf schools start off hitting balls outside, but then you head inside for swing analysis and instruction.

Ball flight is a result of the swing.  I highly recommend people visit a GolfTEC and see for themselves.


The really good teachers focus on diagnosing your swing, then finding a way to get you to perform the changes quickly and properly. GolfTec just doesn't have the ability to hire people with years of experience who know many ways to get their students to swing correctly. I'm in the technology business and technology will NEVER replace the people who are skilled teachers.

To each his/her own...I really don't want this to become a traditional instruction v. GolfTec fest. Skilled teachers will never be replaced...no doubt about that, but when you don't have a good one in town (or simply can't afford one) then you look into the next best thing.

To me GolfTec seems to have in place a way to help students as fast as they can...Not only does the pro see your swing on camera but so do you...feel and vision are two extremely powerful yet different senses that can be put in front of you in one lesson.

Regards,
TW


#16 BALLARD2

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 12:45 AM

"The really good teachers focus on diagnosing your swing, then finding a way to get you to perform the changes quickly and properly. GolfTec just doesn't have the ability to hire people with years of experience who know many ways to get their students to swing correctly. I'm in the technology business and technology will NEVER replace the people who are skilled teachers. "

i'm new to this board, and don't want to offend, but...
this statement by leekgolf is bordering on ignorance,i'm sure that some locations may have newer instructors but so will some courses. i personally am a very visual learner and am having a greeat experience and my instructor, who happens to be extremely well respected in the area , has 25 years experience, both indoor and outdoor.
so my point is just because they use the newest technology doesn't mean they are a 1 trick pony without fundamentally sound instructors.

seems that you never see the folks that are having a great experience harping on the negative side of range lessons, but the anti-golftec crowd attack like they have been insulted. JMO

#17 leekgolf

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 10:22 PM

View PostBALLARD2, on May 3 2007, 01:45 AM, said:

"The really good teachers focus on diagnosing your swing, then finding a way to get you to perform the changes quickly and properly. GolfTec just doesn't have the ability to hire people with years of experience who know many ways to get their students to swing correctly. I'm in the technology business and technology will NEVER replace the people who are skilled teachers. "

i'm new to this board, and don't want to offend, but...
this statement by leekgolf is bordering on ignorance,i'm sure that some locations may have newer instructors but so will some courses. i personally am a very visual learner and am having a greeat experience and my instructor, who happens to be extremely well respected in the area , has 25 years experience, both indoor and outdoor.
so my point is just because they use the newest technology doesn't mean they are a 1 trick pony without fundamentally sound instructors.

seems that you never see the folks that are having a great experience harping on the negative side of range lessons, but the anti-golftec crowd attack like they have been insulted. JMO

I'm not insulted at all. I don't believe Golftec itself is no good. I don't believe you need lessons outdoors, or at a golf course or anything else. I believe you need a teacher who can teach. A pro with a big bag of tricks to get you to execute. The reason I doubt Golftec is this- they charge A LOT, but pay the instructors very little. Really good teaching pros usually won't work for what Golftec pays. I know this because I know some guys who worked there between club pro jobs.

I have played this game for a while- 20 years. I have had all kinds of lessons. After the first year, I never really got better and eventually, slowly got worse. I have had lessons from a number of teaching pros. I started with an assistant at my club, who taught me so many bad things, it's amazing I kept playing. When he moved on, his replacement was much more helpful. He really got me to a place that I could start to play- I broke 80 in a Pro-Am after my third lesson with him.  After one year of playing, my handicap was an 8. When he moved on, I didn't really get better at all. My short game improved and my handicap dropped, but my swing effectiveness did not. Eventually it got over 10.  I went to two different Golf/Golf Digest Top 10 teachers in time. Both helped a little but the improvements were relatively short term.

I tried some high tech stuff too. Geez, I even have full blown teaching software (JC Golf). I can look at my swing next to ant TOUR pro in my library, which includes most of the big names. I can SEE what they do and I understand the difference. I can tell you right now, what you think you feel is probably not accurate. I could work to copy Tiger, Ernie Els or about anyone else and not improve at all. Why?
Because while I know exactly what they do, even their tempo and compare it to mine, I can't feel the proper moves to execute it.

Now, you ask what's the point? A very good teacher will also be able to see your flaws. They also have the ability to assess what YOU can do, with your talent and your body. In order to swing like Tiger, you have to be a world class athlete in your prime. Honestly, that's true for most of the top TOUR pros. This good teacher should not only be able to assess what you CAN do, but find ways to get you to do them. That my friend is the trick. With all of Golftec's technology (which isn't really much better than the standard video software most pros now use), if they can't do the personal assessment and know how to get you to execute, your odds of long term improvement are not good.

#18 dtwainright

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 10:01 AM

HoganFan: Thanks for the post! Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']1. You hips are shifted rearward (away from the target) with a high right hip.  In the face on view, your spine angle is actually tilted toward the target.  You need to move the hips forward about 2 to 4 inches so that your chest and head are stacked right over your hips.[/quote]

I wasn't even aware I was doing this...does this have anything to do with my ball position? I'll work on this.

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']2. You're standing too close to the ball which causes the "cramped" look and feel of your swing through the impact zone.  Your hands need to be under your chin, not shoulder sockets.  Looks like your trying the "one plane" model type swing (1PS).  You have a 1PS set-up (except as noted above) but a 2-plane type release.  Part of the reason for this is you're standing too close to the ball (and I agree a little too far back in your stance)[/quote]

Went to the range a couple of days ago and tried standing further away from the ball and it felt horrible! And the shots were even worse...Maybe it's my release...not too sure but something wasn't working. Lots of topped shots and low, weak shots to the right.

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']4. I'd agree with the instructor that you might be slightly overdoing it with the spine tilt forward at address, but only by about 5 deg. IMHO if you are trying to achieve a 1PS.[/quote]

Honestly not sure what I'm trying to achieve. That may be part of my problem! I get the set up and back swing of the 1PS but the downswing really screws with my head. It just doesn't make sense to me - not that I am questioning it - It just doesn't compute in my little golf brain.

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']5. Your stance looks a couple of inches too narrow and your left foot needs to flare out a little more - this will allow for better rotation into the follow-through[/quote]

I did flare my left foot when I went to the range and it felt awesome - I felt like I could really rotate through to a better finish and I also felt more in balance. Thanks for the tip!

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']There are actually 3 spine angles in the DTL view (lumbar, thoracic, cervical) so your shoulder bend that the instuctor commented on is of no significance, you don't need to do anything there.  You might be overdoing it a bit with your pelvic tilt (sticking your arse out too far!) causing a concavity in your lumber spine.[/quote]

I've always wanted a straight back but I guess I've over done it...

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']In transition, you pull your hands down and "stand up" because that's the only way your going to be able to hit the ball without hitting it fat or shanking (because you stand too close to it - this is also why you've moved the ball back in your stance - avoiding the fat shot).  A good 1PS should have the hands/arms swinging out more.  Notice how in transition, your shaft angle has steepened (not good) while Appleby's has flattened and points outside the ball (good)?  Try swinging without a ball on grass, swing out much more in transition and notice where your divots are, then reposition your ball.[/quote]

I guess this is what confuses me about the 1PS...I thought you had to keep your hands on the "inner circle" and swinging out defeats the purpose. I'm sure that I'm doing it wrong so I'll give it a try and stick with it. Should I try the sock/headcover drill for this?

And - does the downswing being with the upper body/arms?

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']At impact, is where I'm really questioning the Golftec data.  Your hips and shoulders appear much too closed to me (and much too closed for a good 1PS - compare the pics to Appleby) but the Golftec data says you're good there.[/quote]

The Golftec data is just an average...and the numbers just indicate that I fall into an "acceptable" range.


[quote name='hoganfan924' post='541961' date='Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM']Hope that wasn't too confusing.[/quote]

Nope not too confusing at all...thank you for taking the time!

Regards,
TW

#19 rok78

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 11:24 AM

View Postdtwainright, on May 4 2007, 05:01 AM, said:

View Posthoganfan924, on Apr 25 2007, 08:58 PM, said:

In transition, you pull your hands down and "stand up" because that's the only way your going to be able to hit the ball without hitting it fat or shanking (because you stand too close to it - this is also why you've moved the ball back in your stance - avoiding the fat shot).  A good 1PS should have the hands/arms swinging out more.  Notice how in transition, your shaft angle has steepened (not good) while Appleby's has flattened and points outside the ball (good)?  Try swinging without a ball on grass, swing out much more in transition and notice where your divots are, then reposition your ball.

I guess this is what confuses me about the 1PS...I thought you had to keep your hands on the "inner circle" and swinging out defeats the purpose. I'm sure that I'm doing it wrong so I'll give it a try and stick with it. Should I try the sock/headcover drill for this?

And - does the downswing being with the upper body/arms?


The "inner circle" is really the arc your hands move, and is a feel that Hardy developed to get your hands to the same position it was at address (but of course with straight left wrist, bent right wrist and elbow) as it swings around a rotating body. There is an element of down to hoganfan's out. But from a down the line position, because your hands are so close to you at address you naturally have to swing to much more down and not enough out to get to a place where you can strike the ball. Because of the shallow backswing of a 1PS you need some steepening elements on the downswing, but this is overdoing it a little. If you adjust your address to where your arms hang more naturally you'll have all the room you need to get the out motion to go with the down you already have.

BTW if you've ingrained a good body pivot that will respond to the thought of your moving your arms first then it's ok to "think" you begin the downswing with your arms. For example, if you throw a ball and then try to throw it faster (unless you're working on mechanics), you don't think step longer, rotate hips then shoulders, chest to your glove, form a Y, release arm, etc...You just move your arm faster and your body responds. But all good down swings begin with the lower body first.
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#20 dana dahlquist

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 11:21 PM

I went one time when a buddy if mine who became a pro at the studio, Not bad. They said I had to change a few things. I would disagree with what they were saying about what needed to be changed.My model is better and I hit it better than some of thoughs guys that they are using as models. But it does not matter. Its a good system, I would never work there because Very good players only care about ball flight really.
If your the weekend guy or the business guy with some cash to burn go for it, all knowlege is good.


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#21 hoganfan924

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 01:21 PM

Quote

If your the weekend guy or the business guy with some cash to burn go for it, all knowlege is good.

Dana...,

I agree, all knowledge is good, but misinformation isn't knowledge and can be downright destructive and dangerous (in any aspect of life).  I think many golf swings get destroyed (or at least don't produce any better results) by well intentioned but ignorant instructors who are dispensing incorrect information.  And there are a lot of very poor instructors out there who provide "tip of the day" band-aid type of instruction.

I've not been to Golftec so the above statement should in no way be construed to be a criticism of Golftec.  I know that they have a training program for their instructors (Golftec U so to speak) and that their instructors are supposed to all teach from the same Goftec "manual."  Whether it's great, good or terrible, I have no idea.  I'm sure, that like all professions, their instructors will run the full gamut from the "A" studends to the "D's"

#22 hoganfan924

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 05:26 PM

[quote]HoganFan: Thanks for the post! Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

1. Your hips are shifted rearward (away from the target) with a high right hip.  In the face on view, your spine angle is actually tilted toward the target.  You need to move the hips forward about 2 to 4 inches so that your chest and head are stacked right over your hips.

I wasn't even aware I was doing this...does this have anything to do with my ball position? I'll work on this.[/quote]
Probably not.  I think you've moved your ball position back because standing so close to it with such a bent over posture is a formula for fat shots

[quote]2. You're standing too close to the ball which causes the "cramped" look and feel of your swing through the impact zone.  Your hands need to be under your chin, not shoulder sockets.  Looks like your trying the "one plane" model type swing (1PS).  You have a 1PS set-up (except as noted above) but a 2-plane type release.  Part of the reason for this is you're standing too close to the ball (and I agree a little too far back in your stance)

Went to the range a couple of days ago and tried standing further away from the ball and it felt horrible! And the shots were even worse...Maybe it's my release...not too sure but something wasn't working. Lots of topped shots and low, weak shots to the right.[/quote]
It is very hard to make major changes in the golf swing while hitting balls.  You need to practice changes in your posture at home before taking it to the range or course.  Pick up a club every day at home (even if just 5 minutes a day) and ingrain the feeling of standing up a little taller and putting your hands below your chin.  Get comfortable with this before trying to hit balls this way.

[quote]4. I'd agree with the instructor that you might be slightly overdoing it with the spine tilt forward at address, but only by about 5 deg. IMHO if you are trying to achieve a 1PS.

Honestly not sure what I'm trying to achieve. That may be part of my problem! I get the set up and back swing of the 1PS but the downswing really screws with my head. It just doesn't make sense to me - not that I am questioning it - It just doesn't compute in my little golf brain.[/quote]

I should have been more precise in my original answer and should have asked how tall you are.  Unless you're very, very tall, being this bent over at address is a serious flaw IMHO.  It's also why your a** sticks out so far - as a counterbalance to being so bent over.

[quote]5. Your stance looks a couple of inches too narrow and your left foot needs to flare out a little more - this will allow for better rotation into the follow-through

I did flare my left foot when I went to the range and it felt awesome - I felt like I could really rotate through to a better finish and I also felt more in balance. Thanks for the tip![/quote]
Glad that helped.  I just noticed in you picture sequence that you actually flared out your left foot during the swing.  

[quote]There are actually 3 spine angles in the DTL view (lumbar, thoracic, cervical) so your shoulder bend that the instuctor commented on is of no significance, you don't need to do anything there.  You might be overdoing it a bit with your pelvic tilt (sticking your arse out too far!) causing a concavity in your lumber spine.

I've always wanted a straight back but I guess I've over done it...[/quote]

See above point about you posture.

[quote]In transition, you pull your hands down and "stand up" because that's the only way your going to be able to hit the ball without hitting it fat or shanking (because you stand too close to it - this is also why you've moved the ball back in your stance - avoiding the fat shot).  A good 1PS should have the hands/arms swinging out more.  Notice how in transition, your shaft angle has steepened (not good) while Appleby's has flattened and points outside the ball (good)?  Try swinging without a ball on grass, swing out much more in transition and notice where your divots are, then reposition your ball.

I guess this is what confuses me about the 1PS...I thought you had to keep your hands on the "inner circle" and swinging out defeats the purpose. I'm sure that I'm doing it wrong so I'll give it a try and stick with it. Should I try the sock/headcover drill for this?[/quote]

Swinging out (of course there must be a down component, you are hitting an object on the ground) at the beginning of the downswing (instead of pulling the hands down) actually helps to create the arc that your hands need to travel on.

You look pretty well "connected" in your swing so the headcover drill probably isn't going to change much for you but it is a very good drill IMO.

[quote]And - does the downswing being with the upper body/arms?[/quote]

No,  although it might feel this way to you.  I like the thought of "rotating the belly button around the spine" as a downswing thought.  It works for me.  You might want to try it.

[quote]At impact, is where I'm really questioning the Golftec data.  Your hips and shoulders appear much too closed to me (and much too closed for a good 1PS - compare the pics to Appleby) but the Golftec data says you're good there.

The Golftec data is just an average...and the numbers just indicate that I fall into an "acceptable" range.[/quote]
Exactly - but "acceptable" according to what model?  That's the problem

[quote]Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Nope not too confusing at all...thank you for taking the time!
Regards,
TW[/quote]
You're welcome!

#23 dana dahlquist

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 09:12 PM

View Posthoganfan924, on May 5 2007, 01:21 PM, said:

Quote

If your the weekend guy or the business guy with some cash to burn go for it, all knowlege is good.

Dana...,

I agree, all knowledge is good, but misinformation isn't knowledge and can be downright destructive and dangerous (in any aspect of life).  I think many golf swings get destroyed (or at least don't produce any better results) by well intentioned but ignorant instructors who are dispensing incorrect information.  And there are a lot of very poor instructors out there who provide "tip of the day" band-aid type of instruction.

I've not been to Golftec so the above statement should in no way be construed to be a criticism of Golftec.  I know that they have a training program for their instructors (Golftec U so to speak) and that their instructors are supposed to all teach from the same Goftec "manual."  Whether it's great, good or terrible, I have no idea.  I'm sure, that like all professions, their instructors will run the full gamut from the "A" studends to the "D's"
I do know what your saying here. But I would find it hard for them to grow as they have if it was not that bad. Like I said I would never work for them. Why ? It would not fit for my game how would it for my students. Second to this I would throw the Golf tec book in the trash ASAP, like I said I would mabey hit and curve it better than the guys who wrote it.

#24 dtwainright

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 08:18 PM

View Postdana dahlquist, on May 4 2007, 11:21 PM, said:

I went one time when a buddy if mine who became a pro at the studio, Not bad. They said I had to change a few things. I would disagree with what they were saying about what needed to be changed.My model is better and I hit it better than some of thoughs guys that they are using as models. But it does not matter. Its a good system, I would never work there because Very good players only care about ball flight really.
If your the weekend guy or the business guy with some cash to burn go for it, all knowlege is good.

Dana:

It looks like your new to GolfWRX and we are glad to have you. I don't want to make anyone mad - but this post is not about whether or not you would work for them. That's 100% fine...no problem...but all I really want is some sort of descent golf swing that I can take to the course and be happy with....and I'd love some insight from you all about how to get there - NOT "GolfTEC sucks"..."throw the manual away" kind of comments.

I'm not looking to be a scratch golfer who can call shots into every pin. But I want to be a VERY good golfer by my own definition and I DO CARE about ball flight...I want to make sure it goes high and goes straight  :friends:  Who doesn't!

If you feel that they are leading me in the wrong direction and I should not worry about what they have told me - PLEASE let me know...I don't want to go on a wild goose chase.

--TW

#25 dana dahlquist

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 12:34 AM

Sorry I was speaking to the whole forum about this one really.
You do need to understand that a cookie cutter system of golf is not the way to go first off.
I know alot of great teachers who need to teach off there own experiances of life in golf and how to relay that information to the student. Many say I work off a system, mabey so in many respects. However not all my students are built the same or really practice the same.
I will say again check it out, find a Golf Teach guy who is a good PLAYER. He or she can help you score better, which is the key to golf.


On the lighter note: please go through the learning process with an open mind make sure they get you to understand the FEEL of what is being done. I say feel because your not hitting balls on the range so you must transfer the feelings. HAVE FUN


#26 dtwainright

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 09:43 AM

No worries Dana -  I would love to find a great Pro to work with, but I love the visual aspect of the GolfTec Experience.

I think you, as the golfer, need to put in as much as your willing to get out of a lesson. If you and the pro don't get along then you must move on. And I think effective and open communication with your pro will allow for the best experience.

--TW

#27 pgatour2010

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:35 AM

I just went through my first GolfTec experience yesterday and decided to hop on the WRX to see what others have thought.  Wow, I didn't realize there would actually be some debate here on the quality of what they are teaching.  Anywho, I really think the benefit of GolfTec is in the visual.  With a club pro out on the driving range for many this can be challenging as there is no instant feedback for "why" the club or body is in a wrong position during the swing.  What GolfTec can do for you is give you a visual reinforcement for the drills that they instruct you with.  I believe that each instructor for GolfTec (depending on location) will have different qualities and expertise in suggesting drills to fix mistakes we make in our swings, but in the end having a swing that looks pretty close to Tiger, Appleby, or Els isn't a completely terrible thing is it?  GolfTec provides you drills to take to the range just like any club pro would, and gives you the opportunity to come back for your next lesson and visually see the progress you have made (if any).  They are also a full service program that provides coaching on putting and short game.  Depending on your location most have the capability to further your coaching on a golf course as well.  I will post my initial lesson in another post.

#28 Pdougherty

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 04:34 PM

who is the titleist staffer on the left you are compared to?

#29 akanacl

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 07:44 PM

View PostPdougherty, on May 16 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

who is the titleist staffer on the left you are compared to?
Thats Brad Faxon with the Titleist bag in the picture

#30 akanacl

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 08:25 PM

I bought the 15 series Golftec package (gulp...not cheap). Its the best. If your teaching pro says its hogwash..run away from him ASAP. He's a dinosaur.  Those who don't embrace new technology and new ways of doing things get left behind in any walk of life.  

It's the perfect system for combining "lab" work with your teaching pro. If you've been playing steadily for more than 5-10 years your basic swing is pretty much set.  Its just the ultimate fine-tune system.  I've had 3 sessions and 2 different instructors, and the program is completely consistent.  The instructors were all well schooled in the new rage swing teachings..1PS, 2PS, etc..  

I'm also upgrading my plan to include instruction on how to use the equipment on your own.  After you're taught how to run the system, you can use it on your own.  I can't wait for that.

Bottom line its the ultimate swing tune-up system.


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