They may describe it a certain way. Good instructors have this way of describing what they want their students to do in a way the student understands the feel.
But hey, I didn't talk to butch. I think I'd rather believe what I saw tiger do than some internet golfer who said hi to butch one day and counts that as "talking g" to him.
It doesn't really matter though. What Jim advocates has helped numerous people, including me.
And by the way, I'm no slouch internet golfer. I know a good bit about the golf swing. What Jim teaches helped me understand what I needed to feel to cure an inside and flat takeaway problem that plagued me for a while.
I was hovering around a 2 when I finally decided to peek into this pinned thread. Since then, since getting the feeling of what Jim teaches I've dropped to as low as a +.2. I have hovered between .4 and +.2 for about the last 7 months.
So it doesn't really matter what tiger did or what butch said, Jim's principles work and help people. That's what this thread is about.
If you'd rather be right so you'll go away then...you're right. Now, can you leave this thread for people who want to understand the concept to see if it helps, rather than run the same retread over and over?
As I've said several times over; I have no issue with Jim's or anyone else's swing theories. If a swing method works for you, stick to it no matter how crazy or off the wall it may be.
What I am debating is Jim's frequent claim that Tiger Woods utalises Jim's teachings by way of pushing the club away to start his backswing. A bold and wild claim with zero substance and against everything Tiger Woods has said himself in clinics I have been to in person, watched on TV and in writings he has made. Plus testimony from the man who coached him, Mr Butch Harmon. A 1 piece takeaway is taking everything back in 1 piece - it cannot be confused linguistically of someone describing a push away on a 45 degree angle...
Jim choses to post on Golfwrx over using a forum on his own website, so I believe public questions are to be expected; especially if you are selling a method with the claim that there is an "illusion" done by Tiger Woods.