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The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy


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#4021 Jim Waldron

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 04:49 PM

 jsanderso, on 26 May 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

I am just getting back into golf after being away mostly for 30 odd years, and wanted to get a lesson in before ingraning too many bad habits. As a result have only watched a few videos, Jim's "Arm Swing Illusion" being one. During my lesson my coach evaluated my swing and showed that I was far too low on the takeaway, and when working on a drill or two with him I immediately flashed back to this video. It really helped make the transition to the correct motion much easier.

Thanks for sharing your positive experience with the ASI concept, J. Great to hear that it is helping you!


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#4022 Jim Waldron

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 04:59 PM

Some basic swing theory that every serious student of the golf swing should know.

There are Four Major Swing Styles that have proven to be very effective in both professional and amateur events
over the past 100 years. Understanding which one you is best for you and how toxic it is to mix and match within
Styles is key to your improvement.

One of the four is only recommended for golfers built like NFL lineman - wide, deep chest, and inflexible. What I call
a Thrusting or Hitting Style. Craig Stadler is a good example.

Slinging or Throwing Style is the 1960's and 70's big lateral move, leg drive, reverse C. Nicklaus and Miller in their
prime. Hard on the back and hard to stay in Balance, so I never recommend it to beginners or average golfers. Too much leg and feet
and hip and independent arm motion to create the kind of consistency that everyone wants.

Hogan is the model for the Ultra Spin Style. Requires much more flexibility than average golfers possess, and a strong core, naturally fast tempo.
Helps if you have longer than average arms and are shorter than 5'10" in height.

Which leaves the Style I teach most all of my students, Leveraged Spin. It is a blend of using the Pivot and the Levers to create clubhead speed, and will work with
moderate flexibility and core strength.  Balance, lower body stability and a mostly centered Pivot are key elements. So is on plane shaft angle during the swing. And of course
keeping the arms in front of the torso as discussed in the ASI stuff. It is the Style that 99% of tour pros are using today.



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#4023 Jim Waldron

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:46 PM

I have recently been getting a lot of questions about my video instruction series, which consists of 13 individual
videos. The typical question is - "which video should I start with?".

There is no simple answer, because like all truly effective instruction, it all depends on the current skill level
of the student.

But here are a few guidelines to consider.

1. the Great Shot! Mastering the Craft of Ballstriking video instruction series is designed to be a developmental
self-directed learning program. Meaning that there is a proper sequence that should ideally be followed when learning
golf swing skills. Certain key fundamentals act as the foundation for fundamentals that come later in the sequence.
When those earlier fundamentals are missing or weak, it makes it difficult - or even impossible - to learn the later fundamentals
effectively.

With that in mind, you can think of Module One and Two as the foundation fundamentals or elementary school.

Modules Three through Five similar to high school.  Modules Six through Eight is like college.

2. the question of which should I do first, a remote lesson with Jim, or buy a video - is an easy one to answer.
The lesson is always going to be a better choice, because in that lesson I will identify precisely your top three swing flaws
and how to fix them. I will also identify which of the foundation fundamentals is missing or weak - especially grip, aim and Setup.
and baseline Balance and Tempo. If either of those areas is poor - you are wasting your time working on anything
else.

3.as far as swing building, you always want to follow the law of cause and effect. I divide the swing into six mini-segments, starting
with Takeaway. No point in working on your Top of backswing position if your Takeaway is incorrect.

Best option for everyone is to start with a webcam live Remote Lesson with me, and then based on my analysis of your swing, I can then recommend
which videos to buy and study. Not everyone needs the entire 13 video program. Advanced players might start with Module Two on the arm swing illusion and
it's cure, and Module Four on the Pivot Mechanics, or Module Five on the Levers and Release.

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#4024 DaveZ

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:46 PM

I just wanted to chime in here and say that I've seen this illusion.. I just didn't know what I was looking at.  The one golfer who sticks out to me especially on takeaway is Rickie Fowler.  Whenever I would see DTL footage of him swinging I just couldn't comprehend how he could get back to the ball with such an outside looking takeaway.  Anyway just finished Module 2 and I get it now.. I thought I did in the past (watched the cigarette vid) but I was wrong.. now I get it.

Thanks

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#4025 Jim Waldron

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:50 AM

 DaveZ, on 20 June 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

I just wanted to chime in here and say that I've seen this illusion.. I just didn't know what I was looking at.  The one golfer who sticks out to me especially on takeaway is Rickie Fowler.  Whenever I would see DTL footage of him swinging I just couldn't comprehend how he could get back to the ball with such an outside looking takeaway.  Anyway just finished Module 2 and I get it now.. I thought I did in the past (watched the cigarette vid) but I was wrong.. now I get it.

Thanks

Thanks for your feedback, Dave!

I agree - easy to see the arm pushaway in Ricky's swing. His old swing he actually did it a bit too soon, and ended up outside the shaft plane on takeaway.

He started working with Butch on this at the start of 2015 and it made a real difference in his game. Now his shaft stays on the plane in the takeaway.

Yeah, the Illusion is powerful. I hear your comment all the time - "I thought I understood the ASI from reading the mega-thread on wrx, but once I saw the Module Two video on the ASI, only then did I really understand it."

Part of this is the necessary shift in perspective - the ability to "see" and "think" in 3D instead of 2D.

And the fact that you need to really blend the arm pushaway with the Pivot during takeaway, which makes the pushaway part "invisible" when the ASI "filter is still influencing your perception.


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#4026 Tanner25

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:01 PM

 Jim Waldron, on 22 June 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

 DaveZ, on 20 June 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

I just wanted to chime in here and say that I've seen this illusion.. I just didn't know what I was looking at.  The one golfer who sticks out to me especially on takeaway is Rickie Fowler.  Whenever I would see DTL footage of him swinging I just couldn't comprehend how he could get back to the ball with such an outside looking takeaway.  Anyway just finished Module 2 and I get it now.. I thought I did in the past (watched the cigarette vid) but I was wrong.. now I get it.

Thanks

Thanks for your feedback, Dave!

I agree - easy to see the arm pushaway in Ricky's swing. His old swing he actually did it a bit too soon, and ended up outside the shaft plane on takeaway.

He started working with Butch on this at the start of 2015 and it made a real difference in his game. Now his shaft stays on the plane in the takeaway.

Yeah, the Illusion is powerful. I hear your comment all the time - "I thought I understood the ASI from reading the mega-thread on wrx, but once I saw the Module Two video on the ASI, only then did I really understand it."

Part of this is the necessary shift in perspective - the ability to "see" and "think" in 3D instead of 2D.

And the fact that you need to really blend the arm pushaway with the Pivot during takeaway, which makes the pushaway part "invisible" when the ASI "filter is still influencing your perception.

Jim, Do professionals implement your swing concepts or is this instruction better suited for the average player? Thx Tanner

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#4027 Jim Waldron

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:13 PM

 Tanner25, on 22 June 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

 Jim Waldron, on 22 June 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

 DaveZ, on 20 June 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

I just wanted to chime in here and say that I've seen this illusion.. I just didn't know what I was looking at.  The one golfer who sticks out to me especially on takeaway is Rickie Fowler.  Whenever I would see DTL footage of him swinging I just couldn't comprehend how he could get back to the ball with such an outside looking takeaway.  Anyway just finished Module 2 and I get it now.. I thought I did in the past (watched the cigarette vid) but I was wrong.. now I get it.

Thanks



Thanks for your feedback, Dave!

I agree - easy to see the arm pushaway in Ricky's swing. His old swing he actually did it a bit too soon, and ended up outside the shaft plane on takeaway.

He started working with Butch on this at the start of 2015 and it made a real difference in his game. Now his shaft stays on the plane in the takeaway.

Yeah, the Illusion is powerful. I hear your comment all the time - "I thought I understood the ASI from reading the mega-thread on wrx, but once I saw the Module Two video on the ASI, only then did I really understand it."

Part of this is the necessary shift in perspective - the ability to "see" and "think" in 3D instead of 2D.

And the fact that you need to really blend the arm pushaway with the Pivot during takeaway, which makes the pushaway part "invisible" when the ASI "filter is still influencing your perception.

Jim, Do professionals implement your swing concepts or is this instruction better suited for the average player? Thx Tanner

The swing model is for all skill levels.

But the precise nature of the instruction is totally geared toward the student I am working with at the time.  There are a few parts of the swing model that only work well for advanced players.

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#4028 whytry

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Posted Yesterday, 05:36 PM

Jim,
I am wondering if incorrect, albeit nonchalant, practice swings are corrupting my swing.

Picture this for a moment.

I am waiting on the tee box for the group ahead to clear.  I am “practicing” my golf swing.  I am standing up, not bent at the waist.  I am not swinging very hard or back very far (i.e. half swings), and my body is not rotating much (and even less than it should for the half swings).  However, since my body is not rotating much and I am under the spell of the ASI, I am moving my arms around by body a fair amount, not on the approximate 45° angle up as you recommend.

Are these incorrect, albeit nonchalant, practice swings ingraining the incorrect arm motion and thus corrupting my swing? Should a player thus be conscious to move the arms on the approximate 45° angle up even when doing little practice swings?

I assume the answers are yes, but I thought this all was interesting enough to share.

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#4029 Jim Waldron

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Posted Yesterday, 06:04 PM

 whytry, on 26 June 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Jim,
I am wondering if incorrect, albeit nonchalant, practice swings are corrupting my swing.

Picture this for a moment.

I am waiting on the tee box for the group ahead to clear.  I am “practicing” my golf swing.  I am standing up, not bent at the waist.  I am not swinging very hard or back very far (i.e. half swings), and my body is not rotating much (and even less than it should for the half swings).  However, since my body is not rotating much and I am under the spell of the ASI, I am moving my arms around by body a fair amount, not on the approximate 45° angle up as you recommend.

Are these incorrect, albeit nonchalant, practice swings ingraining the incorrect arm motion and thus corrupting my swing? Should a player thus be conscious to move the arms on the approximate 45° angle up even when doing little practice swings?

I assume the answers are yes, but I thought this all was interesting enough to share.


A lot of good players will perform a "warm up" swing that is really different than their actual swing.

I think the answer lies more in just practicing the correct backswing with the 45 degree arm pushaway until you have mastered it, and then it wont matter
if you do a somewhat different motion in a warm up swing.

At some point, your conscious mind will really breakthrough to seeing through the Illusion, which will make your practice much more effective.


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#4030 dog flog

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Posted Yesterday, 10:33 PM

View PostBrahmabull102002, on 25 April 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

OK, I tried this arm movement w/out pivot and it seems like the clubhead is moving outside instead of straight back.  Am I missing something??
Without the pivot, your arms do raise to the outside of the target line by about 45 degrees. What you must do is pivot while doing that same arm action, which for most people, will feel strange at first but will become liberating when you start incorporating the knowledge into your action.

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