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#1 disagreement with the rules?


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#1 Jim Clark

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

Since we have some other discussions about the rules going on, particularly the one's about anchoring and the caddy lining up the player from behind, what is your pet peeve with one or more rules?

Here's mine: OB should be played lateral, but with a required drop. The OB line is clearly defined, the player, fellow competitors/opponents or rules officials can agree on the point of entry. Unlike a lateral hazard where you can choose to play the ball from inside the hazard, lateral OB would require a drop in bounds. No provisional ball would be allowed. I believe this would help speed play.

Lost ball might still have to be played stroke and distance, BUT MAYBE, you could play lost ball as distance but no penalty stroke. You'd be hitting your provisional ball two instead of three. This could also help speed play. Less likely a player will search the whole 5 minutes for the lost ball.

Chime in with your pet peeve.


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#2 rehberg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:23 AM

Spike marks on green. Why they don't allow us to fix them is an anomaly to me.


I also agree with you OB suggestion.

#3 longbal30

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

Spike marks is a good one, but I can't stand the groove rule. That is a rule that had no bearing on anything. All it did was take some of the best clubs from yesterday and made them worthless. It's virtually had no effect whatsoever on PGA tour scoring. But I'm pretty sure it screwed up some amateurs.

#4 nova6868

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

I think the worst rule is that a divot is not considered "ground under repair". It's just ridiculous.

#5 lumberman2462

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

Stroke & Distance on OB is a bunch of BS.  I'd be fine with lateral or just replay from original position.  My true feeling is that OB is just stupid.  I understand propety lines and all of that - but my feeling is that if you can find it....you should be able to hit it.

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#6 richard t

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

My buddies and I play by the rules. We're not scalawags, cheaters or thieves. We just have 'adendums' when we play. You fix spike marks, drop out of divot holes, (course super actually encourages it), play from OB if it is course property and a few other things that speed it up, look after the course, and well, just  don'y hurt anyone else. Club Championship whole different thing. Sometimes I really wonder who's made these rules and what their rational is. What I really laugh over is some simple rule and the verbose language used to explain it as if it were some 1st class felony.  I believe the rules could be simplified, and reduced for the play of the average group, foursome, whatever in their normal weekly matches.

#7 kevcarter

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

View Postrichard t, on 27 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

My buddies and I play by the rules. We're not scalawags, cheaters or thieves. We just have 'adendums' when we play. You fix spike marks, drop out of divot holes, (course super actually encourages it), play from OB if it is course property and a few other things that speed it up, look after the course, and well, just  don'y hurt anyone else. Club Championship whole different thing. Sometimes I really wonder who's made these rules and what their rational is. What I really laugh over is some simple rule and the verbose language used to explain it as if it were some 1st class felony.  I believe the rules could be simplified, and reduced for the play of the average group, foursome, whatever in their normal weekly matches.

LOL

I really enjoy the study of the rules, and I will take a lot of flack from my peers, but I love your post...

As long as you and your "scalawag" friends are playing by the same rules , who really cares. We want to grow the game, and this type of attitude is a great way to do it. Have fun!

There are also those who can't have fun without following the rules to the letter, and I applaud that attitude as well. It takes some work and patience, but is very rewarding.

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#8 MizunoMan37

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Not being able to fix spike marks is annoying. Spike marks and ball marks are both caused by the player...yet we are only allowed to fix one?

#9 Vindog

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

OB is just fine the way it is.  If you were a property owner abutting a golf course would you want hackers trespassing in your yard making divots?  I didn't think so.

Most of the opponents of the OB rule are folks who are tired of getting stung.  Let's not dumb down the game.  You hit it OFF THE PROPERTY.  deal with it.  You really should be venting your frustrations with modern course designers using in course OB and the superfluous use of OB vis a vis real estate sales.

View Postlumberman2462, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Stroke & Distance on OB is a bunch of BS.  I'd be fine with lateral or just replay from original position.  My true feeling is that OB is just stupid.  I understand propety lines and all of that - but my feeling is that if you can find it....you should be able to hit it.

You can already replay from the original position.  So with that in mind all you really want is to have a reduced penalty?

Edited by Vindog, 27 February 2013 - 10:00 AM.

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#10 Frankensteins Monster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

Stroke and distance for OB is as idiotic as a rule can get. Not being able to repair spike marks is another. It makes total sense to penalize a player for damage caused to the course by another player. It makes total sense. I guess you can add divots also. You should NEVER be penalized, by penalty stroke or playing conditions, because of the actions of another player.


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#11 dustin.shafer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:02 AM

Not being able to sweep sand out of your line on the green when putting from the fringe or first cut.

Not being able to fix a divot or ball mark on the fringe if it's in your line.

#12 Frankensteins Monster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostVindog, on 27 February 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

OB is just fine the way it is.  If you were a property owner abutting a golf course would you want hackers trespassing in your yard making divots?  I didn't think so.

Most of the opponents of the OB rule are folks who are tired of getting stung.  Let's not dumb down the game.  You hit it OFF THE PROPERTY.  deal with it.  You really should be venting your frustrations with modern course designers using in course OB and the superfluous use of OB vis a vis real estate sales.

View Postlumberman2462, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Stroke & Distance on OB is a bunch of BS.  I'd be fine with lateral or just replay from original position.  My true feeling is that OB is just stupid.  I understand propety lines and all of that - but my feeling is that if you can find it....you should be able to hit it.

You can already replay from the original position.  So with that in mind all you really want is to have a reduced penalty?

I always hit a provisional if I believe a ball went out of bounds and encourage others to do so as well. It's the times when the ball bounces OB when everyone believes it's in bounds.

#13 Frankensteins Monster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:06 AM

Add a lost ball to the list also. The ball is lost. You know where it was lost. Drop under the penalty of one stroke. Done. Making a player go back to the tee does nothing but slow the course up to a crawl and the pace is lost for the rest of the day. Want to speed up the game? Never make a player go back to the tee.

#14 Huskypride28

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:09 AM

Agree with you on the OB rule and not be able to repair spike marks.  I also think it's stupid that if your ball lands in a divot you're not allowed to get a free drop.  And finally you should be able to clean your ball if there is any mud on it.  If you can do it when you putt why not when you hit a shot from the fairway.

#15 KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:12 AM

The USGA and the R&A should do more to promote understanding and following the Rules of Golf.


#16 CAT GOLFER

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:15 AM

A league i play in does exactly that, if you hit OB;into hazard;anything where you can't find or lose a ball, you just drop line of site from shot to OB and take your stroke penalty, keeps groups moving forward. gives you at least a chance at a semi decent lie.

#17 Vindog

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

A ball hit out of bound can't be counted as a stroke.  It is out of bounds.  Just think about that definiton for a minute.

Again, if OB were strictly relegated to only property boundaries then it's not as much of an issue.  Basically all I hear are people who don't feel like getting penalized for a bad shot.  It's the worst shot in golf and should carry the appropriate penalty.   I've played casual rounds where we dropped for OB,, but it was always at 2 strokes, not 1.


I do think that you should be able to fix spike marks, so long as it's cleared by you FCs, much like a ball mark.  Someone can correct me, but at one point fixing spike marks was allowed for a time, but it was abused by some players (maybe Seve iirc), being a little to generous in fixing them.  So it was scrapped

Edited by Vindog, 27 February 2013 - 10:23 AM.

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#18 kevcarter

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

View PostFrankensteins Monster, on 27 February 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Add a lost ball to the list also. The ball is lost. You know where it was lost. Drop under the penalty of one stroke. Done. Making a player go back to the tee does nothing but slow the course up to a crawl and the pace is lost for the rest of the day. Want to speed up the game? Never make a player go back to the tee.

LOL. If you know where it's lost, why can't you find it?

Sorry, couldn't resist, you made it too easy... :-)
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#19 Hstead

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

Wow, I can't believe how many folks to do like the OB rule of stroke and distance.  I hate to hit the ball OB like anyone else but I see it as essential to the game.  There is a reason that we have lateral hazards, hazards, and then OB.  They are very different.  I think you should be penalized stroke and distance myself for hitting off the property.  

Now, I do not like not being able to drop from a divot in the fairway or being able to tap down spike marks.  I guess I am in the minority on OB though.
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#20 Hstead

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

View Postkevcarter, on 27 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

View PostFrankensteins Monster, on 27 February 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Add a lost ball to the list also. The ball is lost. You know where it was lost. Drop under the penalty of one stroke. Done. Making a player go back to the tee does nothing but slow the course up to a crawl and the pace is lost for the rest of the day. Want to speed up the game? Never make a player go back to the tee.

LOL. If you know where it's lost, why can't you find it?

Sorry, couldn't resist, you made it too easy... :-)

I was thinking the exact same thing.  That sounded like my 11 year old.  If you can't find it, it would be lost.  You do not know where it is.

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#21 Jim Clark

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

ROFL!

I thought this one might generate some diverse opinions.

#22 dmbgolfer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

No mulligans.  Why do they have a word for it if you can't do it?

#23 wobgon

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostJim Clark, on 27 February 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Since we have some other discussions about the rules going on, particularly the one's about anchoring and the caddy lining up the player from behind, what is your pet peeve with one or more rules?

Here's mine: OB should be played lateral, but with a required drop. The OB line is clearly defined, the player, fellow competitors/opponents or rules officials can agree on the point of entry. Unlike a lateral hazard where you can choose to play the ball from inside the hazard, lateral OB would require a drop in bounds. No provisional ball would be allowed. I believe this would help speed play.

Lost ball might still have to be played stroke and distance, BUT MAYBE, you could play lost ball as distance but no penalty stroke. You'd be hitting your provisional ball two instead of three. This could also help speed play. Less likely a player will search the whole 5 minutes for the lost ball.

Chime in with your pet peeve.
I think the OB rule is fine the way it is but if i was going to change it, here is why............Player 1....Stands up and hits a 300 yard drive right down the middle. The ball hits a rock ,kicks dead right and trickles out of bounds. The players next shot is his 3rd.........Player 2......Stands up, swings as hard as he can and misses. His next shot is his 2nd. Like i said, I would not change the rule but it seems kind of crazy.

#24 Frankensteins Monster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

View Postkevcarter, on 27 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

View PostFrankensteins Monster, on 27 February 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Add a lost ball to the list also. The ball is lost. You know where it was lost. Drop under the penalty of one stroke. Done. Making a player go back to the tee does nothing but slow the course up to a crawl and the pace is lost for the rest of the day. Want to speed up the game? Never make a player go back to the tee.

LOL. If you know where it's lost, why can't you find it?

Sorry, couldn't resist, you made it too easy... :-)

I know. :)

I've had times where I know where the ball landed only for it to be gone with it either someone walking off with it, lost in heavy rough or plugging in the fairway. Last year another player in a tournament I was in couldn't find his ball though he knew exactly where it was. He asked the group in front if they played it and the guy said no. Had to go back to the tee. Doubled, missed the cut. Tournament personnel asked guy who said he didn't play the guys ball to show him the ball he finished with. It was the guy's ball. That should NEVER happen.

#25 Frankensteins Monster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostHstead, on 27 February 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

View Postkevcarter, on 27 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

View PostFrankensteins Monster, on 27 February 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Add a lost ball to the list also. The ball is lost. You know where it was lost. Drop under the penalty of one stroke. Done. Making a player go back to the tee does nothing but slow the course up to a crawl and the pace is lost for the rest of the day. Want to speed up the game? Never make a player go back to the tee.

LOL. If you know where it's lost, why can't you find it?

Sorry, couldn't resist, you made it too easy... :-)

I was thinking the exact same thing.  That sounded like my 11 year old.  If you can't find it, it would be lost.  You do not know where it is.

See above.


#26 Jamboy72

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

This is cool thread....two rules that always seem a bit off to me are:

1) How is a divot in the middle of the fairway not defined as GUR....to me, it would see this would be the model example of ground which is in the process of being repaired...

2) Not being able to fix your ball mark on the green if your ball ends up off the green....I just don't get this one....

#27 Frankensteins Monster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

View Posttopekareal, on 27 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

This is cool thread....two rules that always seem a bit off to me are:

1) How is a divot in the middle of the fairway not defined as GUR....to me, it would see this would be the model example of ground which is in the process of being repaired...

2) Not being able to fix your ball mark on the green if your ball ends up off the green....I just don't get this one....

You can repair a ball mark on putting green at any time.

#28 lumberman2462

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

View PostVindog, on 27 February 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

OB is just fine the way it is.  If you were a property owner abutting a golf course would you want hackers trespassing in your yard making divots?  I didn't think so.

Most of the opponents of the OB rule are folks who are tired of getting stung.  Let's not dumb down the game.  You hit it OFF THE PROPERTY.  deal with it.  You really should be venting your frustrations with modern course designers using in course OB and the superfluous use of OB vis a vis real estate sales.

View Postlumberman2462, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Stroke & Distance on OB is a bunch of BS.  I'd be fine with lateral or just replay from original position.  My true feeling is that OB is just stupid.  I understand propety lines and all of that - but my feeling is that if you can find it....you should be able to hit it.

You can already replay from the original position.  So with that in mind all you really want is to have a reduced penalty?

Exactly.  I don't like the penalty.  Mostly because I've been known, from time to time, to get a little wild with my driver.  I'm in the minority here but I happen to own property on a golf course and I don't care if people hit out of my yard...happens all the time.   So long they don't hit my dog with an errant shot - I'm all good.  I suppose it would be fair to say that if I hadn't been in a 5 year slog of hitting my driver like Ian Baker-Finch during his wilderness years - I'd feel differently.  Since my driving sucks - I want OB to go away.  I also don't care if people tamp down spike marks, drop out of divots or have too many clubs in their bag.  My main rules are: Putt everything out and never, ever, NEVER touch your ball until it gets on the green.
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#29 WRXClarky

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

Don't agree with the fairway drop from the divots just because too many people would abuse it and use it for a drop anytime their lie isn't ideal.

But, I do find it ridiculous that you can't fix the green due to spike marks, sand, etc when the green is intended to be prisitine for play and is not meant to be another "hazard" to deal with. The green is difficult due to the slope/break, etc not to try to avoid spike marks and other imperfections due to earlier play.
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#30 dubbie

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

I agree with virtually everything that has been said.  I am all for simplification.....however it will have a potential impact on handicaps when compared to others playing by a different set of rules.  If that isn't a concern, then no problem.  When using your own rules your handicap may beslightly lower, putting you at somewhat of a disadvantage when you are playing by USGA rules.......Just Sayin


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