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3m Scotch Weld Epoxy Questions

epoxy scotch weld clubmaking

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#1 xathanasi

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

Some people use DP-460 or another 3m Scotch Weld epoxy. I've searched the net and can't find golf-application info. If you know technical data and/or have used one before, tell me which one(s) and let me know:
  • At what temperature does it break down enough to pull a clubhead?
  • How does clean up compare to the standard GolfWorks or Golfsmith 1:1 two-part epoxy? Acetone wipes it away easily?
  • Once you've opened it and used some, what kind of shelf life do you get? (Unopened 3m says 15 months.)
  • Do you have other helpful info?
Thanks.

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#2 Nessism

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

1) If you look up a data sheet you will notice that the lap shear strength drops way down at 250F.  I don't know what exact temperature it will take to remove a shaft, because the amount of pull force on the shaft varies depending on the puller and how hard you work it.  Suffice it to say that it will break down with a reasonable amount of heat.

2) It cleans up just like any other epoxy

3) Shelf life should be same 15 months as long as you close up the plunger with the cap after you use some.

4) I've used DP-460 before with fine results.  I work for a commercial aircraft component supplier and we use a lot of DP epoxies in our products.  DP-420 cures faster, and is just as strong.  There is also a DP 460/420 NS (no sag) that is much thicker.  I've never use it before, but want to try some.  Regular epoxy is pretty runny but the NS stuff won't slide off and drip or run down the hosel and collect in the bottom of the shaft.
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#3 Socrates

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

I've used DP 460 for about a decade and it is really good stuff.  Callaway used to use it (still might).  The 460 has an alleged potlife of 60 minutes, but it's more like 30-40 min.  It is 2:1 ratio so you need the appropriate dispenser.  There are others in the DP lineup with DP110 being very popular because it has a potlife of 10 minutes which is easier to work with than the 3-5 min of the DP100.  The DP 460 is really good to work with and is ideal to heat accelerate the cure.  Well worth the expense to buy.  Never had a failure.
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#4 JasonFL

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM

Depending on your work time, DP420 is top notch stuff.... May be worth keeping a tube of it for quick repair and the 460 for assembling full sets in a run.

I used DP 420 for almost all of our Military contracts when I worked in prototyping. All of our jigs, seams, bonding, etc...was DP420 unless another more flexible or non-permanent adhesive was needed.

The tips are expensive, but fail proof in terms of mixing correctly. Since youre dealing with such small amounts of epoxy Id say the tips are worth the extra expense to ensure a good mix.
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#5 Nessism

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:13 AM

 JasonFL, on 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Depending on your work time, DP420 is top notch stuff.... May be worth keeping a tube of it for quick repair and the 460 for assembling full sets in a run.

I used DP 420 for almost all of our Military contracts when I worked in prototyping. All of our jigs, seams, bonding, etc...was DP420 unless another more flexible or non-permanent adhesive was needed.

The tips are expensive, but fail proof in terms of mixing correctly. Since youre dealing with such small amounts of epoxy Id say the tips are worth the extra expense to ensure a good mix.

We use the tips at work, but it seems like they waste a lot of epoxy.  For building clubs, I dispense without a tip and mix with a stick.

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#6 Socrates

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

 Nessism, on 27 February 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

 JasonFL, on 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Depending on your work time, DP420 is top notch stuff.... May be worth keeping a tube of it for quick repair and the 460 for assembling full sets in a run.

I used DP 420 for almost all of our Military contracts when I worked in prototyping. All of our jigs, seams, bonding, etc...was DP420 unless another more flexible or non-permanent adhesive was needed.

The tips are expensive, but fail proof in terms of mixing correctly. Since youre dealing with such small amounts of epoxy Id say the tips are worth the extra expense to ensure a good mix.

We use the tips at work, but it seems like they waste a lot of epoxy.  For building clubs, I dispense without a tip and mix with a stick.
Agreed.  For small work, I use the appropriate gun, but mix it by hand.  When I was doing hundreds of clubs I would use the mixing tips as you only wasted the epoxy once a day.  On a small scale you might have more in the tip than you actually use.  It also served as the cap when done and that is what I use to cap the epoxy tube when not in use.  Use the same tip that way until the tube is done.
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#7 Hstead

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

I have been checking this stuff out due to the praise it gets on this site, but am I missing something?  It seems expensive and maybe overkill when there are a lot of good epoxies out there that cost less and do not fail either.  I haven't had any problems with Bramm's, or GolfWorks etc.  I have even used Gorilla Epoxy from Walmart on some cheap stuff and I have never had a failure at much less cost.  

Am I missing something?  Is this stuff overkill?
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#8 Nessism

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

 Hstead, on 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

I have been checking this stuff out due to the praise it gets on this site, but am I missing something?  It seems expensive and maybe overkill when there are a lot of good epoxies out there that cost less and do not fail either.  I haven't had any problems with Bramm's, or GolfWorks etc.  I have even used Gorilla Epoxy from Walmart on some cheap stuff and I have never had a failure at much less cost.  

Am I missing something?  Is this stuff overkill?


A $20 tube of DP 420/460 will build something like five sets of irons.  Not a huge expense.  The gun is pretty expensive though.

Golfworks Ultimate Tour Set Plus Epoxy is pretty similar to the 3M stuff, only about 1/2 the price.  Has a 4500 psi lap shear strength, which is excellent. http://http://www.go...p_Q_pn_E_VB1002

Frankly, just about any common epoxy with a lap shear strength above 3000 psi is fine.  The problem with many epoxies being sold though, is you can't get a data sheet.  In that case you are in the "trust" zone.  Personally, I base my trust on facts, and don't like taking chances.

Edited by Nessism, 27 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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#9 ode1

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

After looking at this thread last night, I was looking at the Golfworks stuff and came across this "kit":

http://www.golfworks...B1020_A_cn_E_33

That's a helluva deal which includes the gun, 1:1 and 2:1 plunger, three 50 ml cartridges of epoxy, and some extra goodies.  You'd pay that much for the gun, 2:1 plunger and one 50 ml cartridge at regular price.

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#10 JasonFL

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

 Hstead, on 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

I have been checking this stuff out due to the praise it gets on this site, but am I missing something?  It seems expensive and maybe overkill when there are a lot of good epoxies out there that cost less and do not fail either.  I haven't had any problems with Bramm's, or GolfWorks etc.  I have even used Gorilla Epoxy from Walmart on some cheap stuff and I have never had a failure at much less cost.  

Am I missing something?  Is this stuff overkill?

Because of my old job i became a epoxy nerd.

3M is great stuff. Very reliable. Low failure rate if any.

All the "store brands" if I had to guess are just re badged EPON brand epoxy re labeled accordingly.

EPON brand epoxy is a gassy formula from the 1970s.

Just my opinion.

Edited by JasonFL, 27 February 2013 - 07:00 PM.

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#11 Nessism

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

 ode1, on 27 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

After looking at this thread last night, I was looking at the Golfworks stuff and came across this "kit":

http://www.golfworks...B1020_A_cn_E_33

That's a helluva deal which includes the gun, 1:1 and 2:1 plunger, three 50 ml cartridges of epoxy, and some extra goodies.  You'd pay that much for the gun, 2:1 plunger and one 50 ml cartridge at regular price.

Agree!  Nice deal.
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#12 aewon

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 12:52 PM

Reviving an old thread.

I'm about to buy some 3m Scotch Weld dp 460 epoxy. Is it necessary to use the special gun for this glue or is it OK to just press it out by hand? I normally use Loctite 24hr epoxy which is around 3100psi but I recently put a 714 ap2 set together and for the first time ever a clubhead came off, therefore I want to test a glue with 4500psi and allot of people here seems to praise the 3m products.
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#13 Nessism

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 01:50 PM

 aewon, on 16 March 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Reviving an old thread.

I'm about to buy some 3m Scotch Weld dp 460 epoxy. Is it necessary to use the special gun for this glue or is it OK to just press it out by hand? I normally use Loctite 24hr epoxy which is around 3100psi but I recently put a 714 ap2 set together and for the first time ever a clubhead came off, therefore I want to test a glue with 4500psi and allot of people here seems to praise the 3m products.

I don't recommend trying to push the stuff out of the cartridge without the proper gun.  It could be done, but you better be uber careful to push on each plunger the exact same amount.

BTW, I just used DP460 to build a set of irons this week.  I heat cure the stuff by building a dam out of old wood scraps to surround the club heads and then I aim my heat gun set on low to blow into the open end of the dam.  130F for about 90 mins. and the epoxy reaches something like 5000 psi lap shear strength (overkill yes, but good stuff).
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#14 aewon

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 02:05 PM

 Nessism, on 16 March 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

 aewon, on 16 March 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Reviving an old thread.

I'm about to buy some 3m Scotch Weld dp 460 epoxy. Is it necessary to use the special gun for this glue or is it OK to just press it out by hand? I normally use Loctite 24hr epoxy which is around 3100psi but I recently put a 714 ap2 set together and for the first time ever a clubhead came off, therefore I want to test a glue with 4500psi and allot of people here seems to praise the 3m products.

I don't recommend trying to push the stuff out of the cartridge without the proper gun.  It could be done, but you better be uber careful to push on each plunger the exact same amount.

BTW, I just used DP460 to build a set of irons this week.  I heat cure the stuff by building a dam out of old wood scraps to surround the club heads and then I aim my heat gun set on low to blow into the open end of the dam.  130F for about 90 mins. and the epoxy reaches something like 5000 psi lap shear strength (overkill yes, but good stuff).

Thanks nessim, I'll try to get hold of a proper gun then. I also noticed there is a 4500psi epoxy on eBay,haven't heard of it before though http://pages.ebay.co...6870033&alt=web

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#15 Nessism

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 02:41 PM

 aewon, on 16 March 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Thanks nessim, I'll try to get hold of a proper gun then. I also noticed there is a 4500psi epoxy on eBay,haven't heard of it before though http://pages.ebay.co...6870033&alt=web

I'd be leary of that stuff, it looks very generic.

BTW, you don't need 4500 psi.  3000 psi should be enough unless you have a large gap you are trying to fill.

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#16 aewon

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 03:08 PM

 Nessism, on 16 March 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

 aewon, on 16 March 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Thanks nessim, I'll try to get hold of a proper gun then. I also noticed there is a 4500psi epoxy on eBay,haven't heard of it before though http://pages.ebay.co...6870033&alt=web

I'd be leary of that stuff, it looks very generic.

BTW, you don't need 4500 psi.  3000 psi should be enough unless you have a large gap you are trying to fill.

Yes that's what I'm thinking as well, I've always used 3000psi with mixed shaft beads before but it seems like the 714 ap2 have a lot of play in the hosel, when I dryfitt the shafts they are very loose. I have really tight ferrules that really center the shafts but I want to be 100% sure it won't break.

The dp460 seems to be pretty thick and mabie fill the gap better.
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#17 Nessism

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 04:23 PM

 aewon, on 16 March 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

 Nessism, on 16 March 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

 aewon, on 16 March 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Thanks nessim, I'll try to get hold of a proper gun then. I also noticed there is a 4500psi epoxy on eBay,haven't heard of it before though http://pages.ebay.co...6870033&alt=web

I'd be leary of that stuff, it looks very generic.

BTW, you don't need 4500 psi.  3000 psi should be enough unless you have a large gap you are trying to fill.

Yes that's what I'm thinking as well, I've always used 3000psi with mixed shaft beads before but it seems like the 714 ap2 have a lot of play in the hosel, when I dryfitt the shafts they are very loose. I have really tight ferrules that really center the shafts but I want to be 100% sure it won't break.

The dp460 seems to be pretty thick and mabie fill the gap better.

Skip the shafting beads.  It weakens the bond.
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#18 aewon

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 02:43 AM

I managed to find a guy that was willing to sell my just one tube + the gun instead of a package of 12 that everyone els I've talked to have said. He only had the SW dp410 glue, last question before ordering is if the 410 will be well suited for golf clubs? Hopefully Someone have tried it.
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#19 Nessism

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 09:10 AM

The 410 seems to be a Euro product.  The specs are different so it's hard to compare to 420/460.  I believe it's similar to the fast cure 420 formula but I'm not positive.
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#20 aewon

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 02:17 PM

 Nessism, on 17 March 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

The 410 seems to be a Euro product.  The specs are different so it's hard to compare to 420/460.  I believe it's similar to the fast cure 420 formula but I'm not positive.

Thanks allot for your help and responses Nassim, I have read many of your posts and as always they are very informative with great substance.

This afternoon I called titleist and they informed my that they use only dp810 for all their club works. I then managed to find a reseller that had both the gun and dp810 stored, they sent it by mail today and hopefully I will have everything put together by next week.

Edited by aewon, 17 March 2016 - 02:19 PM.

Callaway 815 dbd driver proforce v2 66x
Callaway xr 4 wood project x 8b4 6.5
Callaway 815 hybrid proforce v2 86s
Titleist 714 ap2 4-pw project x 6.0
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Wilson fg tour tc 54 & 58 s200
Scotty Cameron Newport select 1.5, Scotty Cameron Futura x
Bridgestone B330s

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#21 Nessism

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 03:29 PM

 aewon, on 17 March 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

 Nessism, on 17 March 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

The 410 seems to be a Euro product.  The specs are different so it's hard to compare to 420/460.  I believe it's similar to the fast cure 420 formula but I'm not positive.

Thanks allot for your help and responses Nassim, I have read many of your posts and as always they are very informative with great substance.

This afternoon I called titleist and they informed my that they use only dp810 for all their club works. I then managed to find a reseller that had both the gun and dp810 stored, they sent it by mail today and hopefully I will have everything put together by next week.

DP810 is good stuff.  It hardens up really fast so you must work fast.  It also breaks down easily with heat.  Since you seem to live in Sweden there won't likely be a big problem, but I'd caution against leaving your clubs in the car all the time if it's hot in your area.
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Putters a plenty - Ping/Odyssey

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#22 aewon

aewon

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 01:27 AM

 Nessism, on 17 March 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

 aewon, on 17 March 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

 Nessism, on 17 March 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

The 410 seems to be a Euro product.  The specs are different so it's hard to compare to 420/460.  I believe it's similar to the fast cure 420 formula but I'm not positive.

Thanks allot for your help and responses Nassim, I have read many of your posts and as always they are very informative with great substance.

This afternoon I called titleist and they informed my that they use only dp810 for all their club works. I then managed to find a reseller that had both the gun and dp810 stored, they sent it by mail today and hopefully I will have everything put together by next week.

DP810 is good stuff.  It hardens up really fast so you must work fast.  It also breaks down easily with heat.  Since you seem to live in Sweden there won't likely be a big problem, but I'd caution against leaving your clubs in the car all the time if it's hot in your area.


Well it can pretty hot here in the summertime but I never leave my clubs in the car so it shouldn't be a problem. Regarding the fast curing time, I also bought a package of the mixing nozzles so theoretically it would be ok to just press the glue in to the hosels.? I'll have to check that up really good.
Callaway 815 dbd driver proforce v2 66x
Callaway xr 4 wood project x 8b4 6.5
Callaway 815 hybrid proforce v2 86s
Titleist 714 ap2 4-pw project x 6.0
Wilson fg tour pmp 50 s200
Wilson fg tour tc 54 & 58 s200
Scotty Cameron Newport select 1.5, Scotty Cameron Futura x
Bridgestone B330s

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