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3m Scotch Weld Epoxy Questions

epoxy scotch weld clubmaking

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#1 xathanasi

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

Some people use DP-460 or another 3m Scotch Weld epoxy. I've searched the net and can't find golf-application info. If you know technical data and/or have used one before, tell me which one(s) and let me know:
  • At what temperature does it break down enough to pull a clubhead?
  • How does clean up compare to the standard GolfWorks or Golfsmith 1:1 two-part epoxy? Acetone wipes it away easily?
  • Once you've opened it and used some, what kind of shelf life do you get? (Unopened 3m says 15 months.)
  • Do you have other helpful info?
Thanks.

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#2 Nessism

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

1) If you look up a data sheet you will notice that the lap shear strength drops way down at 250F.  I don't know what exact temperature it will take to remove a shaft, because the amount of pull force on the shaft varies depending on the puller and how hard you work it.  Suffice it to say that it will break down with a reasonable amount of heat.

2) It cleans up just like any other epoxy

3) Shelf life should be same 15 months as long as you close up the plunger with the cap after you use some.

4) I've used DP-460 before with fine results.  I work for a commercial aircraft component supplier and we use a lot of DP epoxies in our products.  DP-420 cures faster, and is just as strong.  There is also a DP 460/420 NS (no sag) that is much thicker.  I've never use it before, but want to try some.  Regular epoxy is pretty runny but the NS stuff won't slide off and drip or run down the hosel and collect in the bottom of the shaft.

#3 Socrates

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

I've used DP 460 for about a decade and it is really good stuff.  Callaway used to use it (still might).  The 460 has an alleged potlife of 60 minutes, but it's more like 30-40 min.  It is 2:1 ratio so you need the appropriate dispenser.  There are others in the DP lineup with DP110 being very popular because it has a potlife of 10 minutes which is easier to work with than the 3-5 min of the DP100.  The DP 460 is really good to work with and is ideal to heat accelerate the cure.  Well worth the expense to buy.  Never had a failure.
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#4 JasonFL

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM

Depending on your work time, DP420 is top notch stuff.... May be worth keeping a tube of it for quick repair and the 460 for assembling full sets in a run.

I used DP 420 for almost all of our Military contracts when I worked in prototyping. All of our jigs, seams, bonding, etc...was DP420 unless another more flexible or non-permanent adhesive was needed.

The tips are expensive, but fail proof in terms of mixing correctly. Since youre dealing with such small amounts of epoxy Id say the tips are worth the extra expense to ensure a good mix.

#5 Nessism

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:13 AM

View PostJasonFL, on 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Depending on your work time, DP420 is top notch stuff.... May be worth keeping a tube of it for quick repair and the 460 for assembling full sets in a run.

I used DP 420 for almost all of our Military contracts when I worked in prototyping. All of our jigs, seams, bonding, etc...was DP420 unless another more flexible or non-permanent adhesive was needed.

The tips are expensive, but fail proof in terms of mixing correctly. Since youre dealing with such small amounts of epoxy Id say the tips are worth the extra expense to ensure a good mix.

We use the tips at work, but it seems like they waste a lot of epoxy.  For building clubs, I dispense without a tip and mix with a stick.


#6 Socrates

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

View PostNessism, on 27 February 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

View PostJasonFL, on 26 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Depending on your work time, DP420 is top notch stuff.... May be worth keeping a tube of it for quick repair and the 460 for assembling full sets in a run.

I used DP 420 for almost all of our Military contracts when I worked in prototyping. All of our jigs, seams, bonding, etc...was DP420 unless another more flexible or non-permanent adhesive was needed.

The tips are expensive, but fail proof in terms of mixing correctly. Since youre dealing with such small amounts of epoxy Id say the tips are worth the extra expense to ensure a good mix.

We use the tips at work, but it seems like they waste a lot of epoxy.  For building clubs, I dispense without a tip and mix with a stick.
Agreed.  For small work, I use the appropriate gun, but mix it by hand.  When I was doing hundreds of clubs I would use the mixing tips as you only wasted the epoxy once a day.  On a small scale you might have more in the tip than you actually use.  It also served as the cap when done and that is what I use to cap the epoxy tube when not in use.  Use the same tip that way until the tube is done.
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#7 Hstead

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

I have been checking this stuff out due to the praise it gets on this site, but am I missing something?  It seems expensive and maybe overkill when there are a lot of good epoxies out there that cost less and do not fail either.  I haven't had any problems with Bramm's, or GolfWorks etc.  I have even used Gorilla Epoxy from Walmart on some cheap stuff and I have never had a failure at much less cost.  

Am I missing something?  Is this stuff overkill?
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#8 Nessism

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

View PostHstead, on 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

I have been checking this stuff out due to the praise it gets on this site, but am I missing something?  It seems expensive and maybe overkill when there are a lot of good epoxies out there that cost less and do not fail either.  I haven't had any problems with Bramm's, or GolfWorks etc.  I have even used Gorilla Epoxy from Walmart on some cheap stuff and I have never had a failure at much less cost.  

Am I missing something?  Is this stuff overkill?


A $20 tube of DP 420/460 will build something like five sets of irons.  Not a huge expense.  The gun is pretty expensive though.

Golfworks Ultimate Tour Set Plus Epoxy is pretty similar to the 3M stuff, only about 1/2 the price.  Has a 4500 psi lap shear strength, which is excellent. http://http://www.go...p_Q_pn_E_VB1002

Frankly, just about any common epoxy with a lap shear strength above 3000 psi is fine.  The problem with many epoxies being sold though, is you can't get a data sheet.  In that case you are in the "trust" zone.  Personally, I base my trust on facts, and don't like taking chances.

Edited by Nessism, 27 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.


#9 ode1

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

After looking at this thread last night, I was looking at the Golfworks stuff and came across this "kit":

http://www.golfworks...B1020_A_cn_E_33

That's a helluva deal which includes the gun, 1:1 and 2:1 plunger, three 50 ml cartridges of epoxy, and some extra goodies.  You'd pay that much for the gun, 2:1 plunger and one 50 ml cartridge at regular price.

#10 JasonFL

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostHstead, on 27 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

I have been checking this stuff out due to the praise it gets on this site, but am I missing something?  It seems expensive and maybe overkill when there are a lot of good epoxies out there that cost less and do not fail either.  I haven't had any problems with Bramm's, or GolfWorks etc.  I have even used Gorilla Epoxy from Walmart on some cheap stuff and I have never had a failure at much less cost.  

Am I missing something?  Is this stuff overkill?

Because of my old job i became a epoxy nerd.

3M is great stuff. Very reliable. Low failure rate if any.

All the "store brands" if I had to guess are just re badged EPON brand epoxy re labeled accordingly.

EPON brand epoxy is a gassy formula from the 1970s.

Just my opinion.

Edited by JasonFL, 27 February 2013 - 07:00 PM.


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#11 Nessism

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

View Postode1, on 27 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

After looking at this thread last night, I was looking at the Golfworks stuff and came across this "kit":

http://www.golfworks...B1020_A_cn_E_33

That's a helluva deal which includes the gun, 1:1 and 2:1 plunger, three 50 ml cartridges of epoxy, and some extra goodies.  You'd pay that much for the gun, 2:1 plunger and one 50 ml cartridge at regular price.

Agree!  Nice deal.




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