47 replies to this topic

[devan]

I guess what prompted my post was the lack of respect and nasty things people on the jeans postings said about people who wore jeans.  I have tried to make the point that many well respected and prominent citizens wear jeans when it is cold. I play with a lawyer, a banker, a retired Colonel, a school supertendent, and many business owners  who wear jeans when it is cold These people are not rednecks. Who  made the decision that khakis are better than jeans. I think a nice fitting pair of jeans and a nice shirt look as good as khakis. The arguement that jeans shows no respect for the game is a joke. MY friends and I have great respect for the game. If you do not like jeans fine, but do not insult people who do.

[esketores]

Sloppy dress equates to a lack of self respect. Sloth and laziness. It has nothing to do with money and age. Go to the airport someday and watch the circus.
It does not take a lot of money to dress respectfully. However it does take the will to so do.
Quite frankly regardless of the person you are, your appearance does matter. Be it right or wrong in this country you are judged by appearance.

[Pepperturbo]

devan, on 25 February 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

I get the impression that a lot of posters on this board are older and have big incomes. Younger people in my area wear cargo shorts or jeans. I know of only one private course that has a dress code. In colder weather probably 90% of the golfers, young or old wear jeans. A few years ago almost everyone wore suits to church,  At my church most people wear jeans. Most civic clubs are hurting to survive and must cater to the young.  If this trend continues, most private clubs will have to relax there dress codes.

I understand that in some geographical areas, due to weather conditions, dress codes are relaxed at some clubs.  That being the case, it's not so at better clubs, regardless.  I've been to courses where jeans are common.  IMO it makes the overall experience rather shabby; partly because people given latitude abuse the latitude with jeans sagging down to their knees and cracks of their a** showing.  Its the nature of that ill kept beast.

Its also my opinion, clubs that struggle to the point of needing to redefine their charter to accommodate people that once were not considered, insures club failure, just not exclusively for economic reasons.

[SilverBullets]

_MS22_, on 25 February 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm in the 25-30 year old age group, with my wife's income factored in we do well.  I'm not sure what encompasses BIG income as that can mean different amounts to different people.  We do not make BIG money, but we do very well, especially for our ages.

That being said I do not think money has anything to do with dress, it has more to do with respect.  I've had friends in my age group who make decent money (engineers, CRNPs, etc) show up to my club wearing cargo shorts....they have money, that isn't the issue, I mean if you have a new 3-Series you can swing a pair of shorts.  The problem is that their thinking is that it isn't such a big deal and that nobody really cares anymore.  However, at my club and the two or four other clubs I play at with friends, they all have and enforce their dress codes.  My place and another they enforce it with an iron fist.

Like many people said it is mental and generational.  The typical person my age is arrogant as they have been catered to their whole life, and when someone calls them out on it they claim to be oblivious or that others care too much.  It all comes down to being lazy.  I've said it many times, 95% of people less than 30 and many of my friends are lazy beyond belief.  Blame who you want, the people in question, but I blame our parents.  My parents babied myself and my brothers our whole lives.  It was always "oh, our son would never do that" "our son is an angel" blah blah blah.  My brothers and I were terrors growing up, but we always got away with it because our parents covered our a**es!  Luckily I had a waking up watching my older brother get in to a heap of trouble at an early age and it put me in a different mentality early in life.  Our generation was literally given the world too early and too easily and now we lack the ambition to work for and hold ourselves to a higher standard...and it is sad.  I have friends that would rather sit home and collect, play COD all day, not look for a job at all because it is easier and they can....

We've created a society of lazy self-righteous babies, plain and simple.  Because they had the opportunity to make and play by their own rules as children they believe that they can do so as adults.  I love the fact that some places still rest on their laurels and refuse to cave in to the demands of a lazy respect-less society.

I think this sums a lot of the generation gap up.

[Roody]

devan, on 25 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The arguement that jeans shows no respect for the game is a joke. MY friends and I have great respect for the game. If you do not like jeans fine, but do not insult people who do.

Take a look at it from the other side of the coin. Why is it a big deal for you to pick up a couple pairs of decent khakis to wear while you play the game that you have great respect for? It really is a simple gesture of respect towards the game of golf if you think about it.

I usually quote Chubbs Peterson in my head and say "thanks for dressing up" when I see people wearing jeans. Technically they're not hurting anyone I suppose. It just feels like one of those things where if we give in on this, what's next? I view golf as a gentleman's game, and don't want to see it stray so far from its roots that I no longer recognize it.

[MileHighClub]

kellygreen, on 25 February 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

devan, on 25 February 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

I get the impression that a lot of posters on this board are older and have big incomes. Younger people in my area wear cargo shorts or jeans. I know of only one private course that has a dress code. In colder weather probably 90% of the golfers, young or old wear jeans. A few years ago almost everyone wore suits to church,  At my church most people wear jeans. Most civic clubs are hurting to survive and must cater to the young.  If this trend continues, most private clubs will have to relax there dress codes.

It's not about income.  Since one can buy appropriate golf attire at reasonable prices, depending on where you shop and what brands you look at.

What's really going on is a regional and generational difference in attitudes.

Older (Gen X and older) people are comfortable with the notion that there as certain situations where we are free to dress as we wish....and other situations where we must dress more formally as a courtesy to others, and out of respect to where we find ourselves.

In my experience, younger people tend to be more self absorbed and narcissistic.  ("It's my Universe, and you just get to live in it.")   More identified with the notion that their own preferences in a situation to should be most important.  Uncomfortable with the notion that they should alter their own behavior or those preferences out of deference to others.

For example, you act as if dressing casually to church is nothing but a marketing ploy to make attendance more comfortable and convenient to younger people.  Who either don't own...or don't want to be bothered with....semi-formal clothing.    Whereas to those of my parents generation (Baptists) wearing casual clothes to Sunday services would have been an unthinkable act of disrespect to God, and to the rest of the Church community.  As the semi-formal dress is seen as an act of respect and humility.

Unless one is going into a situation where the goal is the conspicuous display of wealth, one can always find affordable ways of dressing appropriately.   But there are, in my experience, definite generational differences with respect to recognizing limits, and honoring community ties.  Because that is what formal and semi-formal dress really speak to.   A recognition that there are somethings more important than my own convenience and comfort.

Nailed it.  Good post.

[_MS22_]

devan, on 25 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I guess what prompted my post was the lack of respect and nasty things people on the jeans postings said about people who wore jeans.  I have tried to make the point that many well respected and prominent citizens wear jeans when it is cold. I play with a lawyer, a banker, a retired Colonel, a school supertendent, and many business owners  who wear jeans when it is cold These people are not rednecks. Who  made the decision that khakis are better than jeans. I think a nice fitting pair of jeans and a nice shirt look as good as khakis. The arguement that jeans shows no respect for the game is a joke. MY friends and I have great respect for the game. If you do not like jeans fine, but do not insult people who do.

If a course has any dress policy I find it best to just abide.

I too find a nice pair of jeans to work equally well if not better than pants on occasion.  I once played a round, showered, changed in to dress jeans (JCrew 484 Selvedge, trim cut, super dark), shirt, tie, and blazer.  Our clubhouse has a No Denim policy but it was late and I was walking from the locker room to my car.....I received a "Please remain respectful of the Dress Code" note in my locker the next day.  I broke a rule, our Super saw it, I heard about it.  To this day I still don't know how he knew, they look like pants!

I didn't make the rule of Pants over Denim/Cargos on the course.  But I follow it.  Much in the fashion that I wasn't consulted about the legal drinking age, Speed Limits being 65, or a host of other laws that I'd like to bend on occasion...

[Pepperturbo]

For the most part, younger generations are loosing all connection with social differences and ambition; taking individuality to new social lows.  If that were not the case, so many youth wouldn't talk as they do here and elsewhere.  They'd show respect...  In other words, homogenizing, which to an extent contributes to the big picture destruction of American's core social fabric.  We can see it in Denver's homogenized airport restrooms and the lack of respectful attire at church, etc.  At black-tie events slobs show up in jeans, wearing a wrinkled sport coat and tennis shoes and think they are being trendy cool.  I am glad I grew up when I did, and likely won't see the day when current social extremes come back to haunt those that think homogenizing society is a good thing.  Too see the big picture result, check out China's social circles and who decides what, and don't think that isn't possible here....its tracking.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 25 February 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[ej002]

People are crazy that is all I have to say.

To the young people out there - throw on some khakis / golf pants and make an old guy happy.  They are more comfortable anyways.
To the old guys out there - you shouldn't have lost society in the late 60s.  You should have slammed a door on that chit right away.  Our generation wasn't even around then and that is when all this crap started, while you guys were in charge.

Edited by ej002, 25 February 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[jwrogers]

I don't understand the argument for jeans on the golf course.   They are awful for golfing.   Jeans don't stretch as much as other pants do.   They get wet and stay wet, and don't keep you warm when they are wet.   They get heavier when they get wet.   They are pretty much the worst choice for golf clothing.   Khakis, wool trousers, performance pants all are better and more comfortable options for golf.   I can't understand why anybody would WANT to wear jeans for golf.

[BlackOutZing]

jwrogers, on 25 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I don't understand the argument for jeans on the golf course.   They are awful for golfing.   Jeans don't stretch as much as other pants do.   They get wet and stay wet, and don't keep you warm when they are wet.   They get heavier when they get wet.   They are pretty much the worst choice for golf clothing.   Khakis, wool trousers, performance pants all are better and more comfortable options for golf.   I can't understand why anybody would WANT to wear jeans for golf.

I say the same thing when I golf on my 1 day a week league.  I understand they are "shop" guys but so many wear jeans. I just don't get it.  Even some of the better golfers wear them. Puzzling.

[FrazS]

I cant imagine wearing jeans on the course!

I couldnt tell you of one single course i know of that allows them. To be honest, most around here still require dress shoes and trousers for the clubhouse bar!

I dress smart for golf, i like to take pride in my appearance. Look good, feel good, play good.

Oh and im 31 so not too old or too young!

[Birdies&Eagles]

You dont need to make the big bucks in order to afford a pair of khakis and a polo.

[devan]

I can afford khakis, I just do not like them. Who decided that khakis were the thing. Why don't  you guys wear knickers or a suit and tie  if you respect the game  game so much?   Hey Frazs where do you live? In my area only one course does not allow jeans.

[chiguy]

Agreed. You certainly don't need to spend a lot of dough to look good. There are plenty of stores with deals including the sale rack of the 'nicer' stores. Shirt, pants/shorts, belt and hat can all be had for a total of $60 easily. And it really bugs me that people think jeans are the worst thing to happen to the game of golf. Who cares whether someone's wearing jeans or dress slacks. I mean, if you're playing at a club with a dress code then by all means abide by it. But if there is no dress code, then wear what you want so long as it's not downright offensive. Jeans, in and of themselves, are not offensive to the game of golf.

[somaplr]

devan, on 25 February 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

I can afford khakis, I just do not like them. Who decided that khakis were the thing. Why don't  you guys wear knickers or a suit and tie  if you respect the game  game so much?   Hey Frazs where do you live? In my area only one course does not allow jeans.

It has nothing to do with "khakis" being the thing.  There are plenty of other materials besides cotton "chinos" or khaki colored pants you can wear.  Jeans are considered to be "casual wear".  Since you can afford, like you said, other types of pants besides denim, there are MULTIPLE colors and fabric types of pants you can wear besides denim.  You can get them even in blue if you like.  

There is and always has been considered a game of Gentlemen and has a standard history of etiquette.  You said you had huge respect for the game, so I'm not sure why you don't get this that some courses and clubs don't allow denim, which again, is by far and wide considered casual.

If you want to wear jeans to golf in, like said before, just find a golf course that allows that.  If you are an adult don't understand why a golf club or course doesn't allow denim on your own, I don't think anyone is going to be able to explain it to you.

[VinceFurnier]

The people who are so concerned with "proper" attire and "respect" are the same type of people who were concerned about minorities playing the game in past generations. Simple/sad  case of people being judgmental bigots.

[batgeek29]

thread is done. race card pulled. end.

only thing that would make this more epic, is if someone pulled out a Nazi arguement...or Al Queda.