Jump to content

Welcome, Guest. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with existing members and access to certain forums. Join our community today and enter into a chance to win a free regular giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

slow play petition... make it stop!


  • Please log in to reply
85 replies to this topic

#1 golfpros1

golfpros1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,860 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105178
  • Joined: 03/22/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 640

Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

I love playing golf, but I don't 7 hours love it!  Who the heck has 7 hours to play a round of golf other than a retired person?  You may say, it doesn't take 7 hours, but lets do the math....

It's probably 30 minutes to the course, 30 minutes to check in, warm up and get to the starter, 5 hours of a slow poked round (and yes, you have to play two balls just to maintain any kind of sanity), 15 minutes to return cart, bag drop clubs and say the farewells, and a 30 min drive home (yeah, not even a 19th hole beer or hot dog folks).  

That's nearly 7 hours from family, kids, work, errands, honey dos, etc. that no man can afford to take every weekend.  It's to the point that I don't play golf, because my kids deserve better than their dad going MIA on the only days he has off from work.  9 holes is about all I can justify personally during their naps.

We can continue to complain about it, or we can fix the problem with education and enforcement.  Every tour player, commentator, ruling body, course marshall, you name it, should make a point about the pace of play, should enforce the pace of play, should penalize tournament players with 2 shots for the pace of play... and not just say it, mean it.  It's either that, or less people will play the game.

The USGA/R&A and the tours are spending WAY too much time talking about putting, taking their eye off the ball when it comes to the Real threat to the game of golf... slow play.

Edited by golfpros1, 24 February 2013 - 10:55 PM.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with existing members and access to certain forums. Join our community today and enter into a chance to win a free regular giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

#2 Thrillhouse

Thrillhouse

    EVERYTHING'S COMING UP THRILLHOUSE!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140851
  • Joined: 10/02/2011
  • Location:Canada
GolfWRX Likes : 1948

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:13 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If you knock an hour off the round that's still 6 hours away from home on a Saturday. It's not going to make a difference to the family man who is playing less these days because it takes up too much time.

All it would do is make those who dont like slow play happier, which while valid, doesn't do anything for the "slow play is shrinking the game" arguments.

Personally when I'm out on the course on a slow day I just go with it, you know it's gonna be slow on a packed Saturday, might as well just relax and accept it for what it is.

#3 golfpros1

golfpros1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,860 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105178
  • Joined: 03/22/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 640

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:32 PM

You can play a round in under 3 hours, and a PGA Tour round is usually around 5.5 hours, sometimes 6.  How can anyone really justify a 3 hour discrepancy?

#4 Thrillhouse

Thrillhouse

    EVERYTHING'S COMING UP THRILLHOUSE!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140851
  • Joined: 10/02/2011
  • Location:Canada
GolfWRX Likes : 1948

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

View Postgolfpros1, on 24 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You can play a round in under 3 hours, and a PGA Tour round is usually around 5.5 hours, sometimes 6.  How can anyone really justify a 3 hour discrepancy?

It's just the nature of tournament golf. In any case, our 5.5 hour Saturday rounds occur for a myriad of reasons that are completely different than the 5.5 hour rounds on tour.

Our 5.5 hour rounds are due to courses that are overbooked and filled with people who are going to lose a lot of balls and take a lot of shots to get to the green. The ones on tour are due to 1:45 preshot routines and the like. Does it send the wrong message? I guess so, but if I was playing for a million dollars I'd probably take some extra time too.

#5 rogolf

rogolf

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 123050
  • Joined: 02/25/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 164

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:51 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 24 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You can play a round in under 3 hours, and a PGA Tour round is usually around 5.5 hours, sometimes 6.  How can anyone really justify a 3 hour discrepancy?

It's just the nature of tournament golf. In any case, our 5.5 hour Saturday rounds occur for a myriad of reasons that are completely different than the 5.5 hour rounds on tour.

Our 5.5 hour rounds are due to courses that are overbooked and filled with people who are going to lose a lot of balls and take a lot of shots to get to the green. The ones on tour are due to 1:45 preshot routines and the like. Does it send the wrong message? I guess so, but if I was playing for a million dollars I'd probably take some extra time too.

God help us if you're already at 5.5 hours and would take more time!  In some places, there's only 8 hours of daylight available and you'd use it all!


#6 Thrillhouse

Thrillhouse

    EVERYTHING'S COMING UP THRILLHOUSE!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140851
  • Joined: 10/02/2011
  • Location:Canada
GolfWRX Likes : 1948

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

View Postrogolf, on 24 February 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 24 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You can play a round in under 3 hours, and a PGA Tour round is usually around 5.5 hours, sometimes 6.  How can anyone really justify a 3 hour discrepancy?

It's just the nature of tournament golf. In any case, our 5.5 hour Saturday rounds occur for a myriad of reasons that are completely different than the 5.5 hour rounds on tour.

Our 5.5 hour rounds are due to courses that are overbooked and filled with people who are going to lose a lot of balls and take a lot of shots to get to the green. The ones on tour are due to 1:45 preshot routines and the like. Does it send the wrong message? I guess so, but if I was playing for a million dollars I'd probably take some extra time too.

God help us if you're already at 5.5 hours and would take more time!  In some places, there's only 8 hours of daylight available and you'd use it all!

Uhh, I never said that chief.

I suggest you go back and read my post more carefully. I said that if I was playing for a million dollars I'd take a little extra time LIKE THE TOUR PLAYERS DO. Hence the 5.5 hour rounds they already play.

I hope the big capital letters have made my point clear, let's read a little more carefully in the future shall we? Good lad.

#7 mikpga

mikpga

    Jammer

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,067 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 20303
  • Joined: 10/06/2006
  • Location:Cincinnati, Ohio
GolfWRX Likes : 245

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

Slow traffic on the highway...

Lets sign a petition to put it to an end...

#8 33 Handicap

33 Handicap

    Psalms 37:23

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 75705
  • Joined: 02/20/2009
  • Location:KC
GolfWRX Likes : 82

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:10 AM

How much time can you REALLY save on Saturday or Sunday on a packed course?There are golfers who get out during the week or after work and want to fly around the course but cannot & are hindered by slow play, I understand your beef. It is hard for me to sympathize with golfers who want to play a sub 4 hour round on a weekend.Tons of people with varying degrees of ability. Patience young Jedi.

#9 rogolf

rogolf

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 123050
  • Joined: 02/25/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 164

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

View Postrogolf, on 24 February 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 24 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You can play a round in under 3 hours, and a PGA Tour round is usually around 5.5 hours, sometimes 6.  How can anyone really justify a 3 hour discrepancy?

It's just the nature of tournament golf. In any case, our 5.5 hour Saturday rounds occur for a myriad of reasons that are completely different than the 5.5 hour rounds on tour.

Our 5.5 hour rounds are due to courses that are overbooked and filled with people who are going to lose a lot of balls and take a lot of shots to get to the green. The ones on tour are due to 1:45 preshot routines and the like. Does it send the wrong message? I guess so, but if I was playing for a million dollars I'd probably take some extra time too.

God help us if you're already at 5.5 hours and would take more time!  In some places, there's only 8 hours of daylight available and you'd use it all!

Uhh, I never said that chief.

I suggest you go back and read my post more carefully. I said that if I was playing for a million dollars I'd take a little extra time LIKE THE TOUR PLAYERS DO. Hence the 5.5 hour rounds they already play.

I hope the big capital letters have made my point clear, let's read a little more carefully in the future shall we? Good lad.

Uh... I've seen your previous posts extolling the virtues of slow play and just had to give it a "no".  As the saying goes - if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.  Good lad.

#10 Guia

Guia

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,521 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 97501
  • Joined: 10/28/2009
  • Location:Southwest
GolfWRX Likes : 381

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:40 AM

We play in less than 4 hours, 6 days a week.  Get out earlier, learn to be ready, get marshals that do
their job.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with existing members and access to certain forums. Join our community today and enter into a chance to win a free regular giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

#11 rogolf

rogolf

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 123050
  • Joined: 02/25/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 164

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostGuia, on 25 February 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

We play in less than 4 hours, 6 days a week.  Get out earlier, learn to be ready, get marshals that do
their job.
Agree with some of your post - but it's not the marshal's job - it's the responsibility of the people that are playing!  Playing early shouldn't be required for 4 hour rounds - it should be the norm all day.  The people need to move along, having courtesey and respect for others.  Four hours should be a normal expectation.  Guess what - if everyone accepts five hours, it will never get to four, but will get to six.

#12 Guia

Guia

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,521 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 97501
  • Joined: 10/28/2009
  • Location:Southwest
GolfWRX Likes : 381

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

I agree with you also.

#13 Thrillhouse

Thrillhouse

    EVERYTHING'S COMING UP THRILLHOUSE!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140851
  • Joined: 10/02/2011
  • Location:Canada
GolfWRX Likes : 1948

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:09 AM

View Postrogolf, on 25 February 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

View Postrogolf, on 24 February 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:


It's just the nature of tournament golf. In any case, our 5.5 hour Saturday rounds occur for a myriad of reasons that are completely different than the 5.5 hour rounds on tour.

Our 5.5 hour rounds are due to courses that are overbooked and filled with people who are going to lose a lot of balls and take a lot of shots to get to the green. The ones on tour are due to 1:45 preshot routines and the like. Does it send the wrong message? I guess so, but if I was playing for a million dollars I'd probably take some extra time too.

God help us if you're already at 5.5 hours and would take more time!  In some places, there's only 8 hours of daylight available and you'd use it all!

Uhh, I never said that chief.

I suggest you go back and read my post more carefully. I said that if I was playing for a million dollars I'd take a little extra time LIKE THE TOUR PLAYERS DO. Hence the 5.5 hour rounds they already play.

I hope the big capital letters have made my point clear, let's read a little more carefully in the future shall we? Good lad.

Uh... I've seen your previous posts extolling the virtues of slow play and just had to give it a "no".  As the saying goes - if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.  Good lad.

I have no idea whose posts you've been reading but I've never "extolled the virtues of slow play" as you put it.

It sounds like you have quite a bone to pick with some golfwrx member who obviously has your feathers ruffled! Unfortunately I'm not him. I think it's time to take a deep breath, calm yourself down, and take it easy with the angry posting. You're liable to ruin a good thread if you keep this up! And I know how youd hate to be "a part of the problem."

That's a good lad.

#14 Singapore Joe

Singapore Joe

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 176066
  • Joined: 04/19/2012
  • Location:Singapore and Melbourne
  • Handicap:14.8
GolfWRX Likes : 101

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:14 AM

I may hold a somewhat negative view of my fellow humans, but I doubt that the majority of people out there are not capable of abstract things such as "speed up your game". Frustratingly many people are stuck in their ways and when you ask them to, say, speed up they just end up confused and start rushing things, a bit like a deer in the head lights, and then the whole exercise goes down the drain and the end result is even slower game.

Maybe Americans are more purpose driven but in a number of countries I have lived even a simple task such as going grocery shopping is enough to send one climbing on the walls because everything is so incredibly slow. And somehow I'm the only one to whom the slowness is a problem.

So, the interesting question is whether slow game is only a problem to the types of people who populate boards like this or also to the general golfing public. There is the possibility that many people enjoy a slow pace of game as that gives them more time to socialise with the friends they are playing with.

I don't play particularly well but I play fast, and I am annoyed as anybody (on this board) having to wait and wait and wait, especially after paying $100+ to play a premium course. But I also meet a lot of fellow golfers to whom slow game doesn't seem to be a problem of any kind.
TMR11S 10.5 Fujikura Blur Red 005
TM R11S 3w/5w Aldila Voodoo SVS6/SVS7
Titleist 910H 21-degree
TM R11 4-9,P Aldila VS Proto 85
Cleveland 588 54,60
Odyssey White Hot XG1 Fatso 5.0

#15 golfpros1

golfpros1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,860 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105178
  • Joined: 03/22/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 640

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

Edited by golfpros1, 25 February 2013 - 01:49 AM.


#16 HiSpeed48

HiSpeed48

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,178 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 196138
  • Joined: 08/02/2012
  • Location:New York City
GolfWRX Likes : 140

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:49 AM

Weekends are when the less experienced golfers come out. When a golfer takes 120+ strokes to finish a round, it's going take a long time. I played with two nice ladies last year who weren't playing slow (they were actually running around trying to play as fast as possible), but since they each took 6+ strokes to reach the green on every hole it took us about 5 hrs to finish the round.
Ping G25
Mizuno MP32
Vokey 46, 50, 54, 60
Odyssey Tour 2-Ball Blade

#17 golftw

golftw

    golFtw

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 190790
  • Joined: 07/07/2012
  • Location:Oregon
GolfWRX Likes : 2

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:55 AM

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

Shorter rounds does not equate to more money. Just because the rounds go faster does not mean that more tee times can be added in. Just saying

#18 Thrillhouse

Thrillhouse

    EVERYTHING'S COMING UP THRILLHOUSE!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 140851
  • Joined: 10/02/2011
  • Location:Canada
GolfWRX Likes : 1948

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:00 AM

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

It's almost like you need to separate the tour from the private course from the public course.

The tour is going to do what they want to do. And as long as you have the whole sports psychology "don't hit until you're ready" movement players are going to be over the 45 second limit. Does the tour affect the average golfer? I dunno, I guess somewhat but I'm not 100% sold on that yet, but to each his own.

Private courses can control it, and many do. Of course this is because members want to play in a reasonable amount of time and they have consequences for those who do not.

Public courses are pretty much screwed either way. If play is slow people complain, if the Marshalls enforce the rules the slow groups complain even more, then tell all their buddies about it, and come on sites like this and complain and tell others "don't go to that course! The Marshall was a jerk!" the people who run these places know this and have to manage it to ensure people patronize their business. Is it right? Obviously not, but you can't expect people to bite the hand that feeds them.

So, I agree with your points golfpros, but I'm not sure there is a plausible solution to your problem.

#19 golfpros1

golfpros1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,860 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105178
  • Joined: 03/22/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 640

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:05 AM

View Postgolftw, on 25 February 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

Shorter rounds does not equate to more money. Just because the rounds go faster does not mean that more tee times can be added in. Just saying

how do you figure that?  If you have an extra 1 or 2 hours of daylight per day available, you can book later times that are guaranteed 18 holes.  And also, when the pace of play increases, you can afford to send groups out closer together as well all day.  More people, more rounds, more money.

Edited by golfpros1, 25 February 2013 - 02:05 AM.


#20 Singapore Joe

Singapore Joe

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 176066
  • Joined: 04/19/2012
  • Location:Singapore and Melbourne
  • Handicap:14.8
GolfWRX Likes : 101

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:06 AM

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...
<SNIP>

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

In tennis they are supposed to enforce the pace of play and serve without delay. TV broadcasts quite often provide the statistics even if the referees let the players get away with a slow play. And the commentators at least in this part of the planet are quite keen to point out that the slow player should be penalised.

Snooker has a variant where they have 20 seconds to make a shot, and in particular when the games get strategic that does become very interesting to watch. Just watch what happens when the beeping begins and the player has to make a shot.

Maybe the TV broadcasts could be proactive in this and run a little shot timer on the screen. That might generate some awareness of the fact that there is a time limit and the player is supposed to whack the ball in a decent time.

Edit: Also, I'm sure you have noticed that quite often when there is a player ahead who takes a loooooong time to prepare for a shot they end up shanking the shot. Happens to me, too. If I just walk to the ball and whack away I usually get a decent shot. If I have a lot of time to overthink the shot, the chances are I'll screw it up.

Edited by Singapore Joe, 25 February 2013 - 02:10 AM.

TMR11S 10.5 Fujikura Blur Red 005
TM R11S 3w/5w Aldila Voodoo SVS6/SVS7
Titleist 910H 21-degree
TM R11 4-9,P Aldila VS Proto 85
Cleveland 588 54,60
Odyssey White Hot XG1 Fatso 5.0

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with existing members and access to certain forums. Join our community today and enter into a chance to win a free regular giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

#21 golfpros1

golfpros1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,860 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105178
  • Joined: 03/22/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 640

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:10 AM

View PostThrillhouse, on 25 February 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

It's almost like you need to separate the tour from the private course from the public course.

The tour is going to do what they want to do. And as long as you have the whole sports psychology "don't hit until you're ready" movement players are going to be over the 45 second limit. Does the tour affect the average golfer? I dunno, I guess somewhat but I'm not 100% sold on that yet, but to each his own.

Private courses can control it, and many do. Of course this is because members want to play in a reasonable amount of time and they have consequences for those who do not.

Public courses are pretty much screwed either way. If play is slow people complain, if the Marshalls enforce the rules the slow groups complain even more, then tell all their buddies about it, and come on sites like this and complain and tell others "don't go to that course! The Marshall was a jerk!" the people who run these places know this and have to manage it to ensure people patronize their business. Is it right? Obviously not, but you can't expect people to bite the hand that feeds them.

So, I agree with your points golfpros, but I'm not sure there is a plausible solution to your problem.


Agreed.  Anyones that's been a marshall can tell you, you feel like a jerk telling a group to pick up the pace, and the groups don't pick up the pace anyway.  They just don't know how, and they just dont care.  Occasionally that means they will rush a few shots but go right back to dragging along.  I guess that's why people join expensive private clubs (the half empty kinds anyway).

We'd have 7 minute tee times and I'd be stacking these guys on the tee all day long, and they can't even get off the first hole without a backup.  It was just ridiculous.  

You suggest the tees to play, they wont listen.  You tell them to pick up if they double par, they just keep hacking ball after ball into the water.  You tell them to play OB as a lateral, they say, what's a lateral?  lol it's just pointless.  And this is at an expensive $300+ per round place... there's no hope anywhere.  They say GPS helps, so courses invest in the ones for the carts, but the impact is only minimal.  And if it's cart path only, cripes, just stay home.  You'll grow a beard and die from starvation before the round is over.

Edited by golfpros1, 25 February 2013 - 02:25 AM.


#22 golftw

golftw

    golFtw

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 190790
  • Joined: 07/07/2012
  • Location:Oregon
GolfWRX Likes : 2

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:10 AM

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

View Postgolftw, on 25 February 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

Shorter rounds does not equate to more money. Just because the rounds go faster does not mean that more tee times can be added in. Just saying

how do you figure that?  If you have an extra 1 or 2 hours of daylight per day available, you can book later times that are guaranteed 18 holes.  And also, when the pace of play increases, you can afford to send groups out closer together as well all day.  More people, more rounds, more money.

Fair point on the end of the day I didn't even think of that. Wouldn't putting groups closer together just back it up once again though?

#23 golfpros1

golfpros1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,860 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105178
  • Joined: 03/22/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 640

Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:22 AM

View Postgolftw, on 25 February 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

View Postgolftw, on 25 February 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

Shorter rounds does not equate to more money. Just because the rounds go faster does not mean that more tee times can be added in. Just saying

how do you figure that?  If you have an extra 1 or 2 hours of daylight per day available, you can book later times that are guaranteed 18 holes.  And also, when the pace of play increases, you can af

ford to send groups out closer together as well all day.  More people, more rounds, more money.

Fair point on the end of the day I didn't even think of that. Wouldn't putting groups closer together just back it up once again though?

Well, a lot of people don't like to play late in the day, so I don't know if it would have a huge financial impact, but it could mean maybe 10 more round or so in that you wouldn't normally get.  Depending on the course, that could be a lot of money every day.

Courses stack the times close together to make more money.  They know darn well that it's makes the round miserable, but they can sell more slots and make more money.  But if the pace of play is high, a group can finish half a hole in a shorter time, so you can afford to run say 7 minute times instead of 10 minutes, so you have more slots to sell all day, every day.  But, if they play slow, the whole thing breaks down and people are stacked on par 3s and such.

Edited by golfpros1, 25 February 2013 - 02:23 AM.


#24 rogolf

rogolf

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 123050
  • Joined: 02/25/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 164

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:02 AM

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

View Postrogolf, on 24 February 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 24 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 24 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You can play a round in under 3 hours, and a PGA Tour round is usually around 5.5 hours, sometimes 6.  How can anyone really justify a 3 hour discrepancy?

It's just the nature of tournament golf. In any case, our 5.5 hour Saturday rounds occur for a myriad of reasons that are completely different than the 5.5 hour rounds on tour.

Our 5.5 hour rounds are due to courses that are overbooked and filled with people who are going to lose a lot of balls and take a lot of shots to get to the green. The ones on tour are due to 1:45 preshot routines and the like. Does it send the wrong message? I guess so, but if I was playing for a million dollars I'd probably take some extra time too.

God help us if you're already at 5.5 hours and would take more time!  In some places, there's only 8 hours of daylight available and you'd use it all!

Uhh, I never said that chief.

I suggest you go back and read my post more carefully. I said that if I was playing for a million dollars I'd take a little extra time LIKE THE TOUR PLAYERS DO. Hence the 5.5 hour rounds they already play.

I hope the big capital letters have made my point clear, let's read a little more carefully in the future shall we? Good lad.

My apologies if you feel you've been maligned.

ps: you can dump the condescending "good lad".

#25 profsmitty

profsmitty

    Major Winner

  • Marshals
  • 2,489 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 20611
  • Joined: 10/15/2006
  • Location:Kansas, USA

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

PS: time to end any acrimony now. This is not the forum for behavior that isn't appropriate for this community.

Thank you.


#26 alfie

alfie

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,093 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 40738
  • Joined: 10/12/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 3

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:41 AM

The op has said what usually runs thru my head when I start contemplating on whether to play an 18 hole course, thus sadly I stick to playing 9 holes more often than what not. It's still hard, as either I have to wake up super early in the morning to play the back 9 near my house, or drive close to an hour to play a 9 holes course near my sister house (been doing the latter, as the course condition on the 9 holes course is soooo much better!).
Still, look at my breakdown, 2 hours drive (back & forth), 15 mins to get ready & check in with clubhouse, 15 mins or 30 or more to wait for tee off, 2 to 2 hrs and 45 mins (depending on how busy) to play and add another 15 to 20 to shake hands, chit chat & pack up. That's still a looong day just to play golf!

#27 Andy L

Andy L

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 940 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 71580
  • Joined: 12/30/2008
  • Location:Western NY
GolfWRX Likes : 73

Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

View PostGuia, on 25 February 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

We play in less than 4 hours, 6 days a week.  Get out earlier, learn to be ready, get marshals that do
their job.

If you took many groups capable of playing four hours and had them tee off back to back, I guarantee the latter groups would not be finishing in 4 hours.



#28 DrSchteeve

DrSchteeve

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,534 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 3417
  • Joined: 07/27/2005
  • Location:Charlotte, NC
  • Ebay ID:sstclairs
GolfWRX Likes : 65

Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

Lots of ways this could be addressed, still seems to be a lack of will.  The big 2 are:
1) The PGA - the WGC event was atrocious:  I didn't time the rounds, but I suspect 5 - 5 1/2.  3-5 practice swings, 2 minute putt reads.  I respect Stricker's putting, but the stand on the putt line 1/2 way and practice that putt (usually) takes too long.  He even stood behind the cup and practiced putts back to the cup!?! Furyk used to be unbearable over putts, I think he may have sped up a tad.  Bottom line is, I know they play for millions, but there's no reason speed of play couldn't become a part of the game.  Snedeker, currently top 10 in the world (I think) is the poster child for what golf could be: set up to your shot, take a practice swing, and hit the ball - he does that with all shots including putts.
2) Golf courses - there are those that enforce a pace, and it usually works well.  Even Pebble Beach now enforces a 4 1/2 hour pace.  Yes, it is the round of a lifetime, yes, there are amazing views, but you either get around in 4 1/2 hours or you lose your chance to finish your round of a lifetime.  

If the PGA enforced it, even let speed of play become a real enforced issue (25 second clock in basketball), and local courses enforced it, then the standard would be set, all golfers would know, from the 1st day they play, that speed of play is an issue.

If you are one of the whiners who say golf is a time to be enjoyed, spend time with your friends, etc., 4 1/2 hours is plenty of time for that - it's not draconian, it's not even fast.
Big Bertha 9* Fubuki Z regular
Jetspeed 3 wood & XHot 4 wood
Jetspeed Rescues 19* and 25*
Cobra Amp Cell 6-LW Kuro Kage Reg
Bridgestone E6 or Titleist Velocity
Odyssey White Hot

#29 Snufles

Snufles

    Hugz

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,473 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 114858
  • Joined: 09/13/2010
  • Location:CANADA
GolfWRX Likes : 209

Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 25 February 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

View Postgolfpros1, on 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Of the 1,497 shots we timed at Bay Hill, 279 of them - or 18.4 percent - exceeded the Tour's 45-second limit. Over nine holes, here are the players who most frequently exceeded 45 seconds to play a shot,...

So almost 1 in 5 shots on the PGA Tour are breaking the rules based on this 9 hole study at one of the tours easier stops imo.  And they know which players most often do it.  Why won't they enforce the rules?  When players start losing events over slow play, I think people will start to take it seriously, and until then, it will never change.

I get that the weekends have packed courses, and that there are some amateurs that cluelessly wander the course looking for golf balls in between alcoholic sips and piss breaks behind trees, and those types aren't likely going to "get it", but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.  

Shaving 1 to 2 hours off a round of golf would have a huge impact on the game.  Enjoyment, yes, but also more rounds per day for courses, which equates to revenue (something courses need).  You have to look at the bigger picture, because there is a lot more than a test of your patience at stake.  Time = money, and courses are running out of it.  And further, golfers that do have a clue will be driven away from the game, leaving a disproportionate number of tree pissers left for the rest of the retirees that have the time to play.

It's almost like you need to separate the tour from the private course from the public course.

The tour is going to do what they want to do. And as long as you have the whole sports psychology "don't hit until you're ready" movement players are going to be over the 45 second limit. Does the tour affect the average golfer? I dunno, I guess somewhat but I'm not 100% sold on that yet, but to each his own.

Private courses can control it, and many do. Of course this is because members want to play in a reasonable amount of time and they have consequences for those who do not.

Public courses are pretty much screwed either way. If play is slow people complain, if the Marshalls enforce the rules the slow groups complain even more, then tell all their buddies about it, and come on sites like this and complain and tell others "don't go to that course! The Marshall was a jerk!" the people who run these places know this and have to manage it to ensure people patronize their business. Is it right? Obviously not, but you can't expect people to bite the hand that feeds them.

So, I agree with your points golfpros, but I'm not sure there is a plausible solution to your problem.

If I experience one of those courses that do not enforce a pace of play and I end up playing a 5+ hour round, my foursome is done with that course till the following year.

When you have issues with Marshals maybe you need to look at your pace and manners while playing. Where active marshals are present and maintaining a comfortable 4.25-4.5 hour rounds that is where most of my money will be spent.

Guys that are incapable of maintaining pace are generally those that play once or twice a month at best.

#30 Medic

Medic

    Major Winner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,780 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132567
  • Joined: 07/08/2011
  • Location:Lakeland, Florida
  • Handicap:6.4
GolfWRX Likes : 315

Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:25 PM

IMHO there are some fundamental reasons for slow play.

First noone seems to ever focus on holding classes that would teach newer golfers how to play at a faster pace. Golf lessons are always centered on the grip, the swing, making solid contact, and all of the other facets of playing. That is all of the other facets except playing at a more reasonable pace.

Next is the fact that most courses simply overbook. For financial reasons, greed, or whatever - they are packing twice the number of groups on the course as they probably should. This is going to lead to log jams even if the course is filled with scratch players who understand the concept of "ready golf" and follow it to the letter.

Then there is the fact that the tour has done nothing to combat the issue. Instead of "Play Golf America" perhaps they could have run an ad campaign "Play Golf Faster - Enjoy It More!" campaign. If the tour pros actively fought against slow play and spoke out against it offering up tips for faster play odds are it might hit home with some of the weekend hackers out there who don't know better.

Finally, why not have certain days of the week and/or tee times that are setup for players who have qualified for those tee times. How do you qualify? Simple! You have to take a written test on pace of play along with a skills test showing that you at least can hit the ball. In other words the only players who will "qualify" are those who completely understand ready golf, can strike the ball with a fair amount of consistency, and who have shown the potential of being able to finish in under 4 hours.

The short sum of it is this. I am as opposed to slow play as anyone. I go to enjoy the game but don't like the idea of a hostage situation. I go into weekend rounds knowing that if I didn't get the first tee time odds are it is going to be slow. My entire foursome is FAST. During the summer here in Florida when we are the only ones on the course we can tee off at 7 am, finish the first 18 by around 10, get a bite to eat, and finish the second 18 by around 2:30. That's four players, betting and keeping score, and simply playing shot-to-shot and not wasting time.

Perhaps if we address the core causes of slow play it might be possible to actually do something about it?

TM Rbz Tour 10.5
TM Rbz Tour 15* 3 Wood
Callaway X 19* 5 Wood
Callaway X-24 Hot 4-SW
Cleveland CG-16 60*
TM Spider 37" Counterweighted

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with existing members and access to certain forums. Join our community today and enter into a chance to win a free regular giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors