23 replies to this topic

[Snell golfer2014]

A quick background: I'm 16 years old, a junior in high school, and I've been playing golf for about 6 years. The lowest my handicap has been in the least year is 2-3 and the highest it's been is probably a 12. The only real strength to my game is that I hit it long. Not extremely long but 7 iron-175 5 iron-205 driver-290. My weaknesses are DEFINITELY SHORT GAME, accuracy with all clubs, and the mental game. I'd been playing off some good ball striking for a while but I knew it'd catch up to me. Yesterday my team played a tournament and it was wetter than wet and windy. Obviously i wouldn't strike the ball as well today and both that and my short game killed me. I shot 90. It's like I had no idea what I was doing out there. I only have a year and a half left before I go to college and I have the coach of a D3 school in the state looking at me and i REALLY want to go there. He might discount this score as a fluke but I need to shoot in the 70's for the rest of the season and my goal is to get to scratch by the summer. I can do it but i need some guidance big time...

[MadGolfer76]

So what is it specifically you are asking for?

[Eag1e]

Snell golfer2014, on 24 February 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

A quick background: I'm 16 years old, a junior in high school, and I've been playing golf for about 6 years. The lowest my handicap has been in the least year is 2-3 and the highest it's been is probably a 12. The only real strength to my game is that I hit it long. Not extremely long but 7 iron-175 5 iron-205 driver-290. My weaknesses are DEFINITELY SHORT GAME, accuracy with all clubs, and the mental game. I'd been playing off some good ball striking for a while but I knew it'd catch up to me. Yesterday my team played a tournament and it was wetter than wet and windy. Obviously i wouldn't strike the ball as well today and both that and my short game killed me. I shot 90. It's like I had no idea what I was doing out there. I only have a year and a half left before I go to college and I have the coach of a D3 school in the state looking at me and i REALLY want to go there. He might discount this score as a fluke but I need to shoot in the 70's for the rest of the season and my goal is to get to scratch by the summer. I can do it but i need some guidance big time...

Well, first of all, you can't call yourself a good ballstriker if you struggle with "accuracy with all clubs." You're going to need to actively acknowledge that even if you're hitting it solid, your long game is decisively holding you back if you're lacking in accuracy throughout the bag. If you're long with a comfortable swing then you need to get with someone who knows what they're doing to figure out why you're not hitting it straight. If you're long swinging out of your shoes, dial it back a little and see if you can control it better. You're better off with a 165 7-iron and 190 5-iron on target than hitting less club and missing left/right.

Is your short game issue with technique or feel? If you can't hit short game shots consistently contact-wise, work on that - again, a good instructor can help you there. If/once you can hit them consistently, go to the practice green with one ball, throw it around and play it as it lies, pitch/chip it to a hole and putt it out. Play at least 9 practice "holes" a day this way until you can consistently get it up-and-down 6/9 times or more. If you don't get 6/9 on the first 9 holes, do it again. If you can maintain focus, keep playing 9's until you get 6/9, if it takes a while.

Just basic stuff there, once you have a level of proficiency on the practice area - feel like you can hit the ball pretty consistent when you're on the range, meaning reasonably solid+reasonably straight, and can get it up-and-down around the practice greens - start getting out on the course as much as possible.

Edited by Eag1e, 24 February 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Snell golfer2014]

I suppose I'm looking for how to improve my short game dramatically and make my ballstriking more consistent even if it costs me a little distance

[ksgolfcoach]

The easiest and best answer is to go see an instructor in your area. When you have inconsistencies to the point where you can shoot really high scores there is obviously mechanical flaws in both your full swing and shot game that are most evident in situations where you are uncomfortable.

The next best piece of advice I can give you is to really work on your weaknesses. So often with juniors ill see them hitting driver after driver as hard as they can. In the mean time they still shank chips and blade bunker shots but they never work on them. Also, when your hitting balls pick a target and practice not hitting to one side of the target. this will simulate a real round where on most tee shots/approach shots you can't miss on one side of the hole.

[Snell golfer2014]

I appreciate all the replies guys lets hear any more out there!

[mikpga]

He might discount this score as a fluke but I need to shoot in the 70's for the rest of the season and my goal is to get to scratch by the summer. I can do it but i need some guidance big time...

Be careful with I need to shoot in the 70s for the rest of the year mindset.  May cause some unhealthy pressure/stress.  

Play smart.  

Practice Short Game like there's no tomorrow!

Be positive/optimistic!

Breaking 80 consistently is simply a matter of...

- 1/2 or 1/3 of the greens.
- 50% up and down
- Avoiding penalties/blow up holes.

Short Game!

[Snell golfer2014]

Mik, what are some ways I could go about practicing my short game? I know it sounds like a trivial question but i really need the help!

[mikpga]

- make many many many putts from 3feet and in!
- practice simple chip shots and putting the ball out.  
- practice a variety of pitch shots. Low, high, etc...
- practice with buddies applying pressure.
- make many many many putts from 3 feet and in...
- don't short side yourself!

[SunkTheBirdie]

Snell golfer2014, on 24 February 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Want to get better at golf

Upload a swing

mikpga, on 24 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Breaking 80 consistently is simply a matter of...
- 1/2 or 1/3 of the greens.
- 50% up and down
- Avoiding penalties/blow up holes.

That's my goal for this season.

Edited by SunkTheBirdie, 24 February 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[Snell golfer2014]

Mik, do you think its advantageous to play a certain shot shape most of the time?

[mikpga]

Yes

[Snell golfer2014]

Do you prefer a draw or fade?

[mikpga]

I personally prefer a fade, but you need to know yours.

[Snell golfer2014]

Is it just whichever you hit more consistently?

[mikpga]

The shot pattern you see the most...

Trust it, perfect it...

[Eag1e]

mikpga, on 24 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

He might discount this score as a fluke but I need to shoot in the 70's for the rest of the season and my goal is to get to scratch by the summer. I can do it but i need some guidance big time...

Be careful with I need to shoot in the 70s for the rest of the year mindset.  May cause some unhealthy pressure/stress.  

Play smart.  

Practice Short Game like there's no tomorrow!

Be positive/optimistic!

Breaking 80 consistently is simply a matter of...

- 1/2 or 1/3 of the greens.
- 50% up and down
- Avoiding penalties/blow up holes.

Short Game!

If he's hitting 1/3 of the greens he's not going to avoid big numbers unless his course has no trees on it. Simply put there's no way someone hitting 6-9 greens a round is not going to hit a drive or two in the trees (potentially OB) or plunk one in the lake eventually.

I agree with the sentiment that he should avoid the mindset of needing to never be in the 80's again this year. "Practicing short game like there's no tomorrow" is not going to accomplish this for him. And his short game is never going to transfer to the course if he's chipping from bushes and trees on the course. As has been gone over in depth very recently, long game can strongly inhibit short game potential. Especially at his length, if he's not in control of it, which he isn't, I guarantee you it gets wild more than rarely.

Until he has some degree of control over his ball - a reliable, playable miss which complements a reliable stock shot - short game alone is not gonna consistently give him the results he needs.

A new guy just started at our golf course who shoots low 80's. If he came on here he'd have a very, very similar OP. If you told him to focus on short game he'd get absolutely nowhere. You can tell from 10 minutes on the range with these types of players they are never gonna get consistently into the 70's without a better long game. This obsession with short game is holding people back from improving.

mikpga, on 24 February 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

- make many many many putts from 3feet and in!
- practice simple chip shots and putting the ball out.  
- practice a variety of pitch shots. Low, high, etc...
- practice with buddies applying pressure.
- make many many many putts from 3 feet and in...
- don't short side yourself!

No offense but anyone who has been a 2-3 handicap is wasting time if they put immediate focus on grinding 3 footers. Other areas of the game yield far, far more shots. I spent the last year making 100-200 4 footers every day and watched my scores go nowhere - unfortunately I didn't realize how useless a use of time that was until a few days ago when I sat and thought about it.

The middle 3 pieces here are absolutely crucial. Practice as you play - one ball, different location every time, putt it out. Practicing the variety of shots will come naturally with varied locations calling for different shots. Practicing with a friend is absolutely golden if you're both taking it seriously.

Not shortsiding is something only accomplished through long game control which is something he said himself he does not have.


OP, you asked how to practice short game - the golden rule of it is never use more than one ball if you're not specifically grinding out technique work. I am 17 and was in the same position as you since I was 15. I listened to the advice of "short game, short game, short game" until my putter face literally had a ball-shaped dent in the middle of the face from wear. I've still got that putter sitting on my couch. It got me nowhere. Do NOT spin your wheels thinking short game is the answer to everything. You need a good short game but it is not the silver bullet at your level. No coincidence that a month and a half after I started giving fair focus to long game again I shot my first 72, and it was in a tournament. You're not gonna get anywhere if you don't get your ballstriking under control, so find someone to work with.



Again, I am not saying to ignore short game. You need to improve both, and it's no problem at all to get a solid practice in both areas every day. I am saying to keep this idea of "short game, short game, short game" out of your mind because it's absolutely destructive to your chances of getting somewhere until you're a highly competent ballstriker.

Edited by Eag1e, 24 February 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[goobers80]

I woulds suggest keep it as simple as possible in every single golf things you do. The more thoughts and stuffs to works their ways in the brain , the harder it is to play golf.

And best way is nots to ask peoples on here , it woulds be to ask the college coach or high school coach for names of good instructors. And as person aboves said , balance it. I used to hit drivers for lots of fun , and while i was very accurate , i hads no idea how to put it on the greens from there. Now haves that set , and final part is learnings how to make a putt go in , nots just hit great putts.

Just i woulds never recommend anybody practices ways i do. I hads to do my own things to be able to give golf goals a try. No team coach woulds accept it , so i missed on those things.

[mikpga]

Disagree completely Eagle with your opinion on someone hitting 6-9 greens is not going to avoid blow up holes.

[Eag1e]

mikpga, on 24 February 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Disagree completely Eagle with your opinion on someone hitting 6-9 greens is not going to avoid blow up holes.

Clearly living in a theoretical fantasy land. I have not once in my life played with someone who hit 6-9 greens that didn't have at least one blow-up hole due to ballstriking. I've also never played a round where I hit 6-9 greens and didn't have a blow up hole. You're looking at this theoretically and saying that you can easily miss 9-12 greens by hitting okay drives and okay approaches that just waddle a little off target and leave you an easy up and down. I'm looking at this in the real world and telling you that anyone hitting 6-9 greens is off enough that they are eventually going to hit a ball way off in their round, and they're gonna have a lot of shots that are "more than a little" off and present a very unlikely up-and-down. Sure, it's possible someone can hit 6-9 greens and not have a blowup hole. It's also incredibly improbable in the real world of golf.

Edited by Eag1e, 24 February 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[mikpga]

We shall agree to disagree...

Bill Haas won the 2012 Northern Trust Open...

What was his GIR% for 72 holes?

Not really the best stat, but pretty damn impressive...

Best wishes to SnellGolfer and his upcoming senior year...

[goobers80]

I used to hits over 70% of fairways , and like 5 greens or 7 or so , and shoot like 73 or 75 or some low 70s number. I was always in play , yet hads no idea how to get the ball on the green. Wrong clubs and types of shots. Now i fixed that over some months. Nothings to do with ballstriking , hads all to do with confusions of what swings and what clubs work.

And i am a real person , nots a fake person playings video game golf.  That stuffs does happen.

[Eag1e]

mikpga, on 24 February 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

We shall agree to disagree...

Bill Haas won the 2012 Northern Trust Open...

What was his GIR% for 72 holes?

Not really the best stat, but pretty damn impressive...

Best wishes to SnellGolfer and his upcoming senior year...

Do remember that PGA stats strictly count a fringe as a missed GIR so his "effective GIR" was probably more towards 60-65%. I'll give you that that's a great example, though. Still, a professional hitting 50% GIR is rather different. It's a lot easier to miss greens by a little due to rough/severe slopes/etc. And you'll undoubtedly agree that a guy then gaining his 4th win on the PGA is going to be established as not hitting it all over the course in a round with 50% gir. "Hitting it all over the course" for the majority of tour guys is equivalent to a rather solid round for most amateurs anyway. Given Bubba/Phil/Tiger can look a bit hacky off the tee when they get off but they're in the minority of tour players on that.

goobers80, on 25 February 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

I used to hits over 70% of fairways , and like 5 greens or 7 or so , and shoot like 73 or 75 or some low 70s number. I was always in play , yet hads no idea how to get the ball on the green. Wrong clubs and types of shots. Now i fixed that over some months. Nothings to do with ballstriking , hads all to do with confusions of what swings and what clubs work.

And i am a real person , nots a fake person playings video game golf.  That stuffs does happen.

Big difference in comparing someone like you who's established as a great player (as far as I've inferred from reading your posts) and is missing greens due to misclubbing versus someone who is not and is missing greens because, as he admits, he's not in control of his golf ball.

It's hard to make an initial argument addressing every single minute counterpoint. Really, inference is a thing. It should be clear to anyone that there is a strong difference in these examples than what I am pointing out and that these are very rare. Beyond that, anyone in the same situation as goobers is not gonna sit there and continue hitting 5-7 GIR because, as she pointed out, it's just a matter of learning what club/shot to hit, not needing to get better at hitting them.

It's silly to apply outlier examples as advice to someone clearly not in the same boat. The OP is not a tour pro misjudging shots in to penalizing greens, the OP is not a scratch/+ missing greens because he's misclubbing. The overwhelming majority of golfers hitting 6-9 greens are neither of these. It should be common sense not to apply things only applicable to an outlier when giving advice to someone in the common majority.

Edited by Eag1e, 25 February 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[mikpga]

BTW, my advice was given in a response to the OP.  I suggested some areas that I felt needed addressing.   SnellGolfer, prioritize and get to work!  You can do it.