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may go back to steel in my driver and 3 wood


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#1 sblack5

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

Like the title says, Im considering going back to steel in my driver and 3wd shafts.  Here is why....

Short version, Im a strong player and want more control

Details:  6'4" and 205.....in the gym all the time and used to compete as a bodybuilder with near 30 more pounds on me, onstage.....my avg ballspeed is 180 to 184 mph with the driver.  I game a 6* driver with an oban devotion 7, 06 flex..tipped an inch and a half....thats xx and then tipped 1.5".  With a d8 sw it comes in at 286 cpm at 45". BEEF

My issue is this.....my tempo is great with my irons, wedges and even my hybrid......with my driver it just doesnt feel like I get the same load and pull in my backswing that I do with my irons.  I feel the shaft load and unload thru my swing but dont feel my body pull at the top to react and start down...driver feels like a plastic baseball bat.

Anyway...i had an issue a while back with my 2 hybrid and ended up switching to a steel kbs tour hybrid shaft and now all is well.  Today I decided to find out the total weight difference in my driver and the rest of my gear.  My 4 iron came in at 460 grams....my driver is at 353 grams...thats a whole lot of difference!  My steel shafted hybrid came in at 430 grams.

My thoughts are this.....my driver and hybrid are both a d8 sw...but I have a much more consistent tempo and mechanics with my hybrid than my driver and with the stiffness in my driver shaft I feel like the club is a toothpick.  Im considering reshafting with an x100 steel wood shaft for the extra overall weight. Its a 124 gram shaft compared with my 77 gram devotion and (all else.staying the same) will bring the total weight to 400 grams which is much more consistent and still lighter than the rest of my gear.  

Am I nuts?  Im thinking that without such an enormous gap in total weight I may find the sweetspot AND be more accurate because I will have more feel and a.similar tempo as my irons.  Even if I lose 5 mph ballspeed and 20 yards of carry I could still comfortably play anywhere I wanted....A half degree off at my ballspeed usually means lost ball...Ive been keeping my cap down by leaving the driver in my bag and relying on my wedges and putter as of late

Any input is helpful.....just a gut feeling to experiment on....if anyone has any input or articles on anything like this I would love it.

Edited by sblack5, 23 February 2013 - 05:05 PM.

hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

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#2 avidshotmaker

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:26 PM

Nuts? No. I can follow your logic. I'm not an expert on the topic by any means but you said your graphite is 77 grams, I know they make far heavier graphics than that, in fact some in the weight of 100grams or so, if I'm not mistaken. Also as far as the sweet spot there's more and more info coming out showing that graphite is more stable and more consistent than steel as of odd that may sound. I think Matrix had allot to say about it.

Edited by avidshotmaker, 23 February 2013 - 05:27 PM.


#3 sblack5

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:53 PM

Im aware of some of the heavier graphite shafts.....Ive got a ust vts 9tx black in my 3wood...its 100 grams exactly.
hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#4 avidshotmaker

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

Then have you considered a heavier graphite for to drive

#5 sblack5

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

Yeah.......but at the same time....it is an experiment in overall weight at this point, and an x100 wood shaft at 124 grams is only $18

hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#6 avidshotmaker

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

Well try it then, see what happens. I think it's unnecessary. I don't think going thru all this will eliminate being a half degree of at impact. Perhaps some hot melt in the driver head could help

#7 andimon1

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

You have a faster SS than me, so the X100 seems solid for you.  I have a DG S300 in 3 wood and driver and plan to game it all year and see what happens.  You can handle the extra weight, and when you swing it for a week or two, the 60-70 gram graphite stuff seems way too light for proper tempo (this is imo).  Make sure the driver is cut down just before 44 inches for proper sw.  The harder you go at the ball, the straighter it flies.  

Enjoy.

#8 Naughty Mazz

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

If you struggle that much than I guess you might have to.
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#9 sblack5

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:14 PM

I just want more control......i think the extra weight will allow me to do that....I will be the first to say that I could be completely and totally wrong and that it may not do anything beneficial at all.  Im just tired of making good contact and running out of room .......  if im 20 yards offline after the ball crosses 300 then its lost ball usually.  It may not fix the issue but if it can help to get me on a better path by eliminating my hands more then it is worth the $20.

Edited by sblack5, 23 February 2013 - 10:18 PM.

hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#10 Naughty Mazz

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

View Postsblack5, on 23 February 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

I just want more control......i think the extra weight will allow me to do that....I will be the first to say that I could be completely and totally wrong and that it may not do anything beneficial at all.  Im just tired of making good contact and running out of room .......  if im 20 yards offline after the ball crosses 300 then its lost ball usually.  It may not fix the issue but if it can help to get me on a better path by eliminating my hands more then it is worth the $20.

If you're that scary long then just hit 3 wood.

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#11 sblack5

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

Lately...especially tnmts or where $ is involved, i usually hit that or hybrid off the tee and have learned how to score with those.......but I want to be able to take advantage with my driver and golf is more fun when you hit the driver well.  I can birdie a par 5 with a 3wd approach and wedge but I could probably do more if I had the other 35 to 40 yards I get from my driver....plus, on my 2 home courses I have like 4 par 4s that are in the 470 and change range....in the cold and wet they play longer...I want driver for them too

Again...the whole point is that I am experimenting by tightening up the overall weight range of my gear to see if it helps consistency

Edited by sblack5, 23 February 2013 - 10:48 PM.

hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#12 Howard Jones

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:09 AM

View Postsblack5, on 23 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Like the title says, Im considering going back to steel in my driver and 3wd shafts.  Here is why....

Short version, Im a strong player and want more control

Details:  6'4" and 205.....in the gym all the time and used to compete as a bodybuilder with near 30 more pounds on me, onstage.....my avg ballspeed is 180 to 184 mph with the driver.  I game a 6* driver with an oban devotion 7, 06 flex..tipped an inch and a half....thats xx and then tipped 1.5".  With a d8 sw it comes in at 286 cpm at 45". BEEF

My issue is this.....my tempo is great with my irons, wedges and even my hybrid......with my driver it just doesnt feel like I get the same load and pull in my backswing that I do with my irons.  I feel the shaft load and unload thru my swing but dont feel my body pull at the top to react and start down...driver feels like a plastic baseball bat.

Anyway...i had an issue a while back with my 2 hybrid and ended up switching to a steel kbs tour hybrid shaft and now all is well.  Today I decided to find out the total weight difference in my driver and the rest of my gear.  My 4 iron came in at 460 grams....my driver is at 353 grams...thats a whole lot of difference!  My steel shafted hybrid came in at 430 grams.

My thoughts are this.....my driver and hybrid are both a d8 sw...but I have a much more consistent tempo and mechanics with my hybrid than my driver and with the stiffness in my driver shaft I feel like the club is a toothpick.  Im considering reshafting with an x100 steel wood shaft for the extra overall weight. Its a 124 gram shaft compared with my 77 gram devotion and (all else.staying the same) will bring the total weight to 400 grams which is much more consistent and still lighter than the rest of my gear.  

Am I nuts?  Im thinking that without such an enormous gap in total weight I may find the sweetspot AND be more accurate because I will have more feel and a.similar tempo as my irons.  Even if I lose 5 mph ballspeed and 20 yards of carry I could still comfortably play anywhere I wanted....A half degree off at my ballspeed usually means lost ball...Ive been keeping my cap down by leaving the driver in my bag and relying on my wedges and putter as of late

Any input is helpful.....just a gut feeling to experiment on....if anyone has any input or articles on anything like this I would love it.

The simplest tasks of all in a club fitting is total weight
Measure 14 inch from the grip butt and down
Add the weight you want total weight to gain with - ex 30 grams - Just use tape or something to attach it with
This will ONLY add total weight like you went up in shaft weight, without changing your SW value

Do this test, and you will find the Total weight thats right for you, it takes a few minutes only

#13 coops

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:27 AM

Trying the steel shaft at around 44" made up length or so, is an easy and cheap trial - so try it out, for sure.

You may also like the Nunchuk graphite shaft. Extremely stiff tip, around 100gm but feels good - rather like steel in a way, counterbalanced so swings ok but total weight that much higher seems to suit me. A lot more expensive to try out though... try and find a demo available or someone with it near you, prepared to let you try it.  Best at around 44" or less, and i'd guess you should be looking at shorter ( than 45") and heavier anyway.

Are there any other slightly lighter steel shafts around the 100 to 110 gm that are stiff enough... and available long enough?

#14 sblack5

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 24 February 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

View Postsblack5, on 23 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Like the title says, Im considering going back to steel in my driver and 3wd shafts.  Here is why....

Short version, Im a strong player and want more control

Details:  6'4" and 205.....in the gym all the time and used to compete as a bodybuilder with near 30 more pounds on me, onstage.....my avg ballspeed is 180 to 184 mph with the driver.  I game a 6* driver with an oban devotion 7, 06 flex..tipped an inch and a half....thats xx and then tipped 1.5".  With a d8 sw it comes in at 286 cpm at 45". BEEF

My issue is this.....my tempo is great with my irons, wedges and even my hybrid......with my driver it just doesnt feel like I get the same load and pull in my backswing that I do with my irons.  I feel the shaft load and unload thru my swing but dont feel my body pull at the top to react and start down...driver feels like a plastic baseball bat.

Anyway...i had an issue a while back with my 2 hybrid and ended up switching to a steel kbs tour hybrid shaft and now all is well.  Today I decided to find out the total weight difference in my driver and the rest of my gear.  My 4 iron came in at 460 grams....my driver is at 353 grams...thats a whole lot of difference!  My steel shafted hybrid came in at 430 grams.

My thoughts are this.....my driver and hybrid are both a d8 sw...but I have a much more consistent tempo and mechanics with my hybrid than my driver and with the stiffness in my driver shaft I feel like the club is a toothpick.  Im considering reshafting with an x100 steel wood shaft for the extra overall weight. Its a 124 gram shaft compared with my 77 gram devotion and (all else.staying the same) will bring the total weight to 400 grams which is much more consistent and still lighter than the rest of my gear.  

Am I nuts?  Im thinking that without such an enormous gap in total weight I may find the sweetspot AND be more accurate because I will have more feel and a.similar tempo as my irons.  Even if I lose 5 mph ballspeed and 20 yards of carry I could still comfortably play anywhere I wanted....A half degree off at my ballspeed usually means lost ball...Ive been keeping my cap down by leaving the driver in my bag and relying on my wedges and putter as of late

Any input is helpful.....just a gut feeling to experiment on....if anyone has any input or articles on anything like this I would love it.

The simplest tasks of all in a club fitting is total weight
Measure 14 inch from the grip butt and down
Add the weight you want total weight to gain with - ex 30 grams - Just use tape or something to attach it with
This will ONLY add total weight like you went up in shaft weight, without changing your SW value

Do this test, and you will find the Total weight thats right for you, it takes a few minutes only
...
..wait... so your saying just basically tape up around the middle area of the shaft just below the grip area???  Still trying to figure out how weighting above the head wouldn't decrease sw value?
hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#15 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

Howard has the best suggestion of all. Several wraps of lead tape at 14" will give you the total weight you're looking for without changing the characteristics of the club at all. 14" is the SW fulcrum and should not affect sw at all.

Sure, the steel shaft is a cheap test, but what if something goes wrong with the pull on your current shaft?

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#16 sblack5

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

Love that folks.on this board are so helpful... def gonna do that first.... thx guys...will report back
hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#17 sblack5

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

Want to say thanx to howard......added lead tape to get weight to 385 grams......feels perfect.....hitting it much straighter and actually gained 12 yards.....mostly due to the fact that I feel like I never stop rotating thru the shot
hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

#18 savoyspecial13

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

According to Tom Wishon in this thread;

http://www.golfwrx.c...__fromsearch__1

...he says:

TomWishon 28 Nov 2012

savoyspecial13, on 28 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Have you heard of anyone using lead tape on the shaft to simulate a heavier shaft and try to dial in a weight?

Yes, this can be done. To do it right so you ONLY change the shaft weight/total weight and do not change the swingweight requires that you put the lead tape precisely centered around the point on the shaft that is exactly 14" down from the end of the grip. If you put it below that point the swingweight goes up as the total weight increases, and if you put the lead tape above that 14" point the swingweight goes down as the total weight increases.

TOM



#19 Svensson

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:59 PM

I just put an S300 in a Titleist 983E at 7*. Cut it about an inch and a half short. Confidence went up as a result but initial shots gave me some fear that I should have gone with a stiffer shaft. Usually play stiff, so I figured it would be ok. I'll need to test this further when the snow cleares at the range but it might be a little food for thought that steel maybe plays soft to flex.

#20 sblack5

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

View Postsavoyspecial13, on 24 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

According to Tom Wishon in this thread;

http://www.golfwrx.c...__fromsearch__1

...he says:

TomWishon 28 Nov 2012

savoyspecial13, on 28 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Have you heard of anyone using lead tape on the shaft to simulate a heavier shaft and try to dial in a weight?

Yes, this can be done. To do it right so you ONLY change the shaft weight/total weight and do not change the swingweight requires that you put the lead tape precisely centered around the point on the shaft that is exactly 14" down from the end of the grip. If you put it below that point the swingweight goes up as the total weight increases, and if you put the lead tape above that 14" point the swingweight goes down as the total weight increases.

TOM

I did put it 14 -16" down and pulled 4 strips off the head.......came out at 385 grams and a d8 sw......exactly where I wanted it to be

hit is with so much authority
that when you find it
and it sees you, it is trembling.

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#21 Howard Jones

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

LOL...sometimes the wildest ideas comes up, and then i just have to.....just to find out

- Long putters will be illegal  but i had 5 long putter shafts in stock in 3 different models, tip .365 and .370 but what weight and CPM is this monsters ?. CPM on a putter shaft is not a issue as far as i know, but what if some fruitcake like we wants to play it as a driver or wood shaft ?

They are way to long, the shortest 49.50 uncut and the other 2 about 52-53 somewhere, and uncut weight was 169 to 235 grams, but when i measured CPM as if they where 44 long like a new uncut driver shaft, i was amazed...
- I did them with a 5.0 clamp and a 285 gram drill chuck and the softest was 265, the next 271 (the lightest) and the strongest was 320 CPM. I Measured a new uncut PX Tour Issue 10A2 for compare and it was 263 or the softest of them all.

So the softest is like FCM 7.0, the next 7.5 and the strongest FCM 12.5, so even Long drivers would be pleased by butt flex
- I have absolutely no idea of their bend profile and it is 3 different shafts, but for monsters who find DG X100 to soft and much to light, you might find the right "telephone pole" in a stack of soon useless long putter shafts if you can modify the hosel to take it.
- It might sound sick to play the same shaft in your driver as in your putter, but the word is : Whatever works :-).




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