89 replies to this topic

[ShortButCrooked]

Norboo, on 25 February 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Big Ben, on 21 February 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

100% fine, for Ping to digitally loft 9.5 they would almost always use a 8.5 head, Ping drivers always run 1-2* more loft then numbered...BB

Really?  That much?  I play 10.5 G20.  So, it's more like 11.5ish?  I was going to order digitally lofted but I am more confused now. Is it the same for their fairway woods?  I was goig to order a 3 wood with 16 degree loft...but if they are already jacked up, I should order digitally lofted 17 degree?

Not sure about fairway wood lofts. I haven't noticed the same type of variances as with drivers.

But ya, your 10.5 G20 is probably more like 11.5. Only way of being 100% sure is to have it measured by a clubfitter with the right measurement tool. But what I was told by my club fitter matches what agentphil stated above.

[Norboo]

Just got off the phone with Ping.  They said on the higher lofted drivers, more loft added and not so much in the lower lofted drivers.

In fairway woods, lofts are true.

[fupresti]

Mulligan9111, on 22 February 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Just curious, but how many of you guys think you would actually be able to tell the difference if your 9.5 degree head was in fact 10.5 degrees?

No one.

[naths]

Looks like Mizuno have got it near enough right, interesting article on a certain  golf spy my ...lol


"Results
:: Overall companies missed their intended loft 92% of the time.

:: Drivers with less loft than stamped 6% of the time.

:: Ping was off by 1* 50% of the time.

:: Mizuno was within the standard manufacturing tolerance of (+ or – 1°) 93% of the time.

:: Cobra was only within the standard manufacturing tolerance of (+ or – 1°) 40% of the time.

:: With the exception of Mizuno (0.7*) and Titleist (0.9*), every manufacturer that we tested missed the stamped loft by an average of 1* or more.

:: Only 8% of the drivers tested were accurately stamped for loft.

:: Over 16% of the drivers measured were off by 2° or more. This means you are twice as likely to buy a driver that’s 2° off as you are to buy one that is marked correctly!

:: Cobra had the largest % off by 2° or more with 40%

:: Only 7 drivers out of 105 had less loft than advertised.

Edited by naths, 26 February 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[deadsolid...shank]

Norboo, on 26 February 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Just got off the phone with Ping.  They said on the higher lofted drivers, more loft added and not so much in the lower lofted drivers.

In fairway woods, lofts are true.

Wouldn't this mean then that the +/ 1* tolerance is just a line they're feeding us? Is the manufacturing process that much differenct for the driver heads as opposed to the fairway wood heads? If not, and they can hold the fairway wood lofts to a more precise tolerance then it stands to reason it would be the same for the driver heads. Also the fact that they are always higher lofted than what they say leads me to believe they can control the lofts and the real true story is it is market/ego driven.

And I'm not bitching by any means, if they're all like that, then we're all in the same boat, playing a driver with more loft than we think (obviously with a few execptions of those who do get them digitally checked). Maybe the manufacters know more about what we need than we do ourselves.

Edited by deadsolid...shank, 26 February 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Micrys2]

I think the way to do this would be to have the fitter measure the log of the driver you are being fit with. That way you will know the actual loft and if its right you can ask that the one you order be digitally lofted to that spec.

[numberonecoog]

If its Ping cant you give them the Serial and tell them to build it to those exact specs

[jay65]

Micrys2, on 26 February 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

I think the way to do this would be to have the fitter measure the log of the driver you are being fit with. That way you will know the actual loft and if its right you can ask that the one you order be digitally lofted to that spec.

This is a very good point. When I started to bring issues like this to the attntion with the Ping fitter at a Demo Day, he quickly made all the excuses why he didn't have the time to help me. It seemed to me they only want the ill informed, easily manipulated Golfers at their Demo day. As soon as somebody starts to ask pertinent questions of a technical nature, he did a 'runner', and clearly didn't want to speak to me the rest of the day. Not sure what they are frightened of. On a more positive note, when I rang Callaway about their fitting process, they couldn't have been more helpful and accommodating, and were refreshingly honest, and more than happy to discuss any technical question I had.

[EagleEagle]

So I am waiting for my 9.5 lofted G25 to arrive .I had been fitted by the ping fitter at a local golf store.So I guess my best bet is to hit the driver when it arrives with the LM and see if the numbers look good.If not the store can measure the lofts on the clubs in the store and switch heads .Hopefully the 9.5 I tested will be close to the 9.5 they send.not too worried if it an actual 10.5 loft although it is almost like false advertising.my concern would be am I getting the max amount of carry out of this loft and is it the best set up for my swing.

[richard t]

Just remember everyone at the Demo Day may not work for Ping. Reps sometimes hire extra prople to help out. ( local pros, golf shop employees,etc.) I always ask- Are you the Ping Rep? Never had a Rep give me the run around. To keep a bag at work (20 miles from home)I wanted another driver. I had one that was DLed. Pro gave Ping the serial number. One says 10.5 one says 9.5. They are as exaact as I can see/tell. Who cares what's on the bottom. I don't care is it says 6 or 12* as long as it is 11* which, with the shaft I use, is a prefect fit for me.
If you're really hitting a 9.4 and you like having 7* on the bottom of the club have a ball. Love to see some people hit an actual 7/8.5* and see where the ball goes.

[jay65]

richard t, on 27 February 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Just remember everyone at the Demo Day may not work for Ping. Reps sometimes hire extra prople to help out. ( local pros, golf shop employees,etc.) I always ask- Are you the Ping Rep? Never had a Rep give me the run around. To keep a bag at work (20 miles from home)I wanted another driver. I had one that was DLed. Pro gave Ping the serial number. One says 10.5 one says 9.5. They are as exaact as I can see/tell. Who cares what's on the bottom. I don't care is it says 6 or 12* as long as it is 11* which, with the shaft I use, is a prefect fit for me.
If you're really hitting a 9.4 and you like having 7* on the bottom of the club have a ball. Love to see some people hit an actual 7/8.5* and see where the ball goes.

Oh definately a Ping rep. I think people in the US could be a little more informed than here in the UK, so OEM fitters tend to treat us as though we are dim. But when they come across a Golfer who is in the minority, and is quite precise and in any way knowledgable, the fitters become defensive and tend to run a mile. They get plenty of custom from the unitiated, so don't like it when they come across an educated Golfer. (Educated as far as Golf equipment and technology is concerned).

I try and go to the independent fitters, but the problem is with them, is that they don't always have the Demo heads to try, especially in LH. So one can easily have to buy 'blind' and risk wasting money. Its a bit of a problem. But just have to make the most of a bad job.

[ThePlatypus]

I am a big advocate for getting what you pay for and this is especially true when it comes to swingweight but one variable that nobody has accounted for is the swing.

Maybe the day we get fit, our swings mirror that of a tour player but how often do we repeat that swing?  So let's say Saturday is perfection, Sunday we set up a little closed, grip gets a little stronger and we come into the ball a little steeper, then on Monday we set up a little open, grip gets weaker and we hit up on the ball.  The driver that fit us on Saturday isn't going to work as well on Sunday and Monday.  We add or decrease loft on every swing.

I think it is more important to find a shaft that you like, a head that fits your eye and one that sounds good to your ear.  The most important quality of a driver is to find the fairway.

[Norboo]

I tend to go the other way.  I let them speak first and let them tell me what they know.  I pretend as thought I know nothing.

At any rate, what they know or don’t know doesn’t really matter.  I know what I want and will order accordingly.

I called Ping to verify the jacked up lofts so I know what I am ordering.

[jay65]

Norboo, on 27 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

I tend to go the other way.  I let them speak first and let them tell me what they know.  I pretend as thought I know nothing.

At any rate, what they know or don’t know doesn’t really matter.  I know what I want and will order accordingly.

I called Ping to verify the jacked up lofts so I know what I am ordering.

I absolutely agree with you on that. I always like to play a bit dumb to start with, as you say, just to see what they know, and if we would be on the same wavelength. The problem comes when I question something of a technical nature, they soon get fed up. I'm sure they would say I'm a difficult customer, Lol. But I'm quite specific about what I like, and what I'm looking for, and they are happy to oblige whilst I play the dumb***, but as soon as I let them see I'm a bit more knowledgable than what they are used to, they tend not to want to help, answer questions and be accommodating. As I said, they seem to just want the unitiated, and have this 'holyer than thou' attitude.

For example, in the UK, Ping only realistically fit from the Stock TFC 189 shaft for the G25 at Demo/fitting days. They don't have any other shaft options to try or be fit from. I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the stock shaft, and will fit some people very well. But to be fit optimally, its impossible to fit all Golfers by only having one shaft to Demo/try/and be fit from. Of course, the official line, is that they cannot find it financially viable to have lots of Custom shafts lined up. I think this is a weak argument. My local independent fitter has over 150 shafts in his studio (but not many LH Heads), but if he can do it, as a small independent fitter, why can't a multi million dollar company like Ping do it? I guess they think, and I can understand it, that the ampunt of Golfers in the UK who can't be cajolled and who are technically knowledgable is so small, that spending £10K on made up custom shafts to try, is simply not worth it financially. So its all about the UK public becoming more educated I suppose. Only then, will things change.

It just leaves a few educated Golfers in limbo somewhat atm.

Titleist is a little better at their Fitting HQ and so is Callaway, but not much. But with Ping, they simply cannot fit some Golfers optimally with just one shaft at their Demo Days. But I guess its unrealistic to expect that.

Just frustrating from a personal point of view, but its why I just have to buy blind! I hate doing it, but I have no choice.

I know I will never change it on my own, so I just try and get on with it. ( With the proviso of having the odd whinge on here!) Lol.

[kwelifan]

It seems sometimes people worry way too much about these things.  Imagine if these drivers didn't have a loft stamped on the bottom, but instead a color or letter.  You go to a demo day and hit the snot out of a "blue" or "D" lofted driver.  You would just order that club, right?  But when a number is on the bottom (a somewhat arbitrary number apparently), people seem to get very concerned about how close that number is to reality.  I understand that for a better player these things could make a difference.  But most of us cant even find the sweet spot consistently so what manufacturers are doing is going to be more of a help than a detriment.

For the majority of people I see on the course (myself included), hitting the ball higher is not a bad thing at all.

Edited by kwelifan, 27 February 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[jay65]

Just for the record, I don't give a toss what it says on the bottom of the Club. I'd just liked to have the chance to try a few different shafts, so that a fitting could be done properly.

[J.W.]

Big difference between a demo day, a fitting day and an appointment with a club fitter.  Most demo days there are tons of people wanting to try clubs so its not really possible to "fit" anyone without annoying 15-20 other people.  If you're truly interested in a PING or any OEM fitting for that matter set up an appointment.  I've made the mistake plenty of times of trying to "fit" someone at a demo day only for most of my time to be spent with one person.  I would be surprised if the guy is trying to "run" from you other than hes trying to get the most out of his time.

[jay65]

J.W., on 27 February 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Big difference between a demo day, a fitting day and an appointment with a club fitter.  Most demo days there are tons of people wanting to try clubs so its not really possible to "fit" anyone without annoying 15-20 other people.  If you're truly interested in a PING or any OEM fitting for that matter set up an appointment.  I've made the mistake plenty of times of trying to "fit" someone at a demo day only for most of my time to be spent with one person.  I would be surprised if the guy is trying to "run" from you other than hes trying to get the most out of his time.

Its exactly the same at the Ping Fitting Centre UK. They don't have any Custom shafts to fit from. Just the TFC 189. I checked with them. And just for the record, even at Demo Days, Fitting slots are arranged, so that the fitter has time with people who want to be fitted, its appointment only. This isn't a 'dig' at Ping per se. Its generic, and I have found in the UK that OEM fitters, be it at a Demo/Fitting Day, or even a specific booked fitting at the Fitting HQ of the OEM, that they treat Golfers with knowledge with some disdain as opposed to the less Golf Educated Golfer. Maybe its different in the US, I can't speak for the US, as I have no experience of Fitters over there, I can obviously only speak from my experiences in the UK.

As I said, although its frustrating, I have got used to it, and I just get on with it, and if a Stock shaft doesn't fit me, after a fitting, I have to order 'blind'. No choice on that I'm afraid. But its cool. Gives me chance to hit lots of shafts by choice, just means I have to but them and risk loosing a few hundred pounds by having to order 'blind' but in the grand plan of life, its no big deal, just a minor irritation.

[agentphil]

Just looked at Ping's website and they've made a cool update. Take a look at the specs for the wood lofts in the pro staff list. It now says Hunter Mahan is playing a 9.5 head @ 10.5 degrees of loft, Bubba Watson is playing an 8.5 degree head at 8.2 degrees of loft, and Lee Westwood is playing a 10.5 head at 11.5 degrees of loft.

Not that it matters what they're playing but this shows exactly how the loft on their heads differs from the stamp on the head a la page 1 and 2 of this thread. Was it coincidence or this thread that drove that?

[Micrys2]

FWIW

Just ordered my G25 from ping and asked that it be digitally lofted to 9.5*.  No problem they said, but wanted me to know that the stamped loft would be 8.5*.  Also it was a whole $5.00 up charge to digitally loft.  Seems reasonable to me.

[jay65]

agentphil, on 28 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Just looked at Ping's website and they've made a cool update. Take a look at the specs for the wood lofts in the pro staff list. It now says Hunter Mahan is playing a 9.5 head @ 10.5 degrees of loft, Bubba Watson is playing an 8.5 degree head at 8.2 degrees of loft, and Lee Westwood is playing a 10.5 head at 11.5 degrees of loft.

Not that it matters what they're playing but this shows exactly how the loft on their heads differs from the stamp on the head a la page 1 and 2 of this thread. Was it coincidence or this thread that drove that?

Thats quite a coincidence, I agree. All a little academic for me personally, because I'm not going to buy a club that costs £300-£400 without being fit properly from a variety of shaft options to try. I'm gonna move on to another mannufacturer who can fit properly in the UK. Sadly for me, and them, thats not Ping.

[EagleEagle]

Well I guess when my club arrives hopefully today I could have the loft checked at the store where I purchased it.If the loft is too high from whats marked on the club I am within my right to send it back or refuse it.
I am hoping that when I was tested for my best ball flight for my swing, and the fitter determined a 9.5 loft that the 9.5 they send me is very close to the 9.5 I was tested with.Not that worried that it would actually be a 10.5 loft just would like it to be optimal for my swing style.Why else would anyone go through the trouble of being fitted.
Guess I can hit some on the LM when I get it and if the numbers are off, check out some of the heads at the store and see if the lofts are better then switch the head.
Pretty wierd set up though when you spending big dollars on a golf club,
Any thought on getting tested with a 9.5 and ordering one that the 2 heads should be close to same loft?.

Edited by EagleEagle, 01 March 2013 - 04:35 AM.

[mantan]

kwelifan, on 27 February 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

It seems sometimes people worry way too much about these things.  Imagine if these drivers didn't have a loft stamped on the bottom, but instead a color or letter.  You go to a demo day and hit the snot out of a "blue" or "D" lofted driver.  You would just order that club, right?  But when a number is on the bottom (a somewhat arbitrary number apparently), people seem to get very concerned about how close that number is to reality.  I understand that for a better player these things could make a difference.  But most of us cant even find the sweet spot consistently so what manufacturers are doing is going to be more of a help than a detriment.

For the majority of people I see on the course (myself included), hitting the ball higher is not a bad thing at all.

You mean like shaft stiffness?   The biggest mistake that manufactures made was designating shafts as 'Regular', 'Stiff', 'Extra Stiff', etc.   The male ego is extremely predictable.  90% of guys are going to immediately go to the 'Stiff' shaft as feeling they need a 'Regular' shaft is an insult to their manhood.   Just like with lofts, over time the manufacturers just started labeling 'Regular' shafts as 'Stiff' and that solved that problem for the overwhelming majority of golfers.

Of course the typical WRXer requires an Extra Stiff shaft (and also to post it in their sig line), but that's a whole other post.  

[ThePlatypus]

EagleEagle, on 01 March 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Well I guess when my club arrives hopefully today I could have the loft checked at the store where I purchased it.If the loft is too high from whats marked on the club I am within my right to send it back or refuse it.
I am hoping that when I was tested for my best ball flight for my swing, and the fitter determined a 9.5 loft that the 9.5 they send me is very close to the 9.5 I was tested with.Not that worried that it would actually be a 10.5 loft just would like it to be optimal for my swing style.Why else would anyone go through the trouble of being fitted.
Guess I can hit some on the LM when I get it and if the numbers are off, check out some of the heads at the store and see if the lofts are better then switch the head.
Pretty wierd set up though when you spending big dollars on a golf club,
Any thought on getting tested with a 9.5 and ordering one that the 2 heads should be close to same loft?.

Demo clubs aren't any tighter in terms of tolerances.  The 9.5 they fitted you with could have been almost anything.

[clinville]

I just bought a g25 driver from GG and ask them the have the loft checked digitally. On the custom order form there was no option for this. The salesman called ping and they told him they have stopped digitally checking the loft of drivers, they said they would still do fairway woods and hybrids. So maybe making adjustable drivers has put an end to digital lofting, or they feel there is no longer a need for this.

[jay65]

Oh dear! I know many on here have already asked, and got their G25 Drivers Digitally lofted, so maybe we need somebody from Ping to clear this issue up, if its relevant to anybody.

[Mart42]

clinville, on 04 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

I just bought a g25 driver from GG and ask them the have the loft checked digitally. On the custom order form there was no option for this. The salesman called ping and they told him they have stopped digitally checking the loft of drivers, they said they would still do fairway woods and hybrids. So maybe making adjustable drivers has put an end to digital lofting, or they feel there is no longer a need for this.

Same thing for me... I order my custom G25 from GT and the salesman call PING in front of me and they tell us they no more offer the digital lofting on the adjustable head. And i look here and read a lot of different story...oh well !!!

[Micrys2]

clinville, on 04 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

I just bought a g25 driver from GG and ask them the have the loft checked digitally. On the custom order form there was no option for this. The salesman called ping and they told him they have stopped digitally checking the loft of drivers, they said they would still do fairway woods and hybrids. So maybe making adjustable drivers has put an end to digital lofting, or they feel there is no longer a need for this.

Don't know about your salesman at GG but I just ordered the G25 last Wednesday and asked that it be digitally lofted and Ping told my pro that it would be and 8.5 head and that the digitally lofted fee was $5.  So I guess it may depend on the rep.

[J.W.]

Micrys2, on 04 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

clinville, on 04 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

I just bought a g25 driver from GG and ask them the have the loft checked digitally. On the custom order form there was no option for this. The salesman called ping and they told him they have stopped digitally checking the loft of drivers, they said they would still do fairway woods and hybrids. So maybe making adjustable drivers has put an end to digital lofting, or they feel there is no longer a need for this.

Don't know about your salesman at GG but I just ordered the G25 last Wednesday and asked that it be digitally lofted and Ping told my pro that it would be and 8.5 head and that the digitally lofted fee was $5.  So I guess it may depend on the rep.

Technically this is true, they still offer the service however they pick a head based on the loft requested.  They have a lot of newer CS reps so you have to ask the right way.  Ask for a head as close to x.x as possible.

[clinville]

J.W., on 04 March 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Micrys2, on 04 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

clinville, on 04 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

I just bought a g25 driver from GG and ask them the have the loft checked digitally. On the custom order form there was no option for this. The salesman called ping and they told him they have stopped digitally checking the loft of drivers, they said they would still do fairway woods and hybrids. So maybe making adjustable drivers has put an end to digital lofting, or they feel there is no longer a need for this.

Don't know about your salesman at GG but I just ordered the G25 last Wednesday and asked that it be digitally lofted and Ping told my pro that it would be and 8.5 head and that the digitally lofted fee was $5.  So I guess it may depend on the rep.

Technically this is true, they still offer the service however they pick a head based on the loft requested.  They have a lot of newer CS reps so you have to ask the right way.  Ask for a head as close to x.x as possible.

Since I couldn't get it done I ordered the driver anyways, but I would think if they offer a service and someone is willing to pay for that service they should make it easier.