59 replies to this topic

[tylerdurden]

I've heard it tossed around that Hogan practiced in front of a mirror. Actually I'm pretty sure Tiger mentioned it in an interview before.

But I've never read it anywhere including in An America Life. Does anyone know if he did or didn't? And if he did, anyone know what he did more specifically (I realize that's a huge long shot)?

IMO and based on my own limited experience, I highly doubt hogan checked positions in his swing in front of a mirror. I've done that a lot and I don't think it's helpful and I can't imagine Hogan would either but I'm not sure. Maybe to check his grip or setup though?

[IH82BOGEY]

Five Lessons page 113.

[dairic]

I just googled it and found that there's a book about it.

http://www.amazon.co...aw/d/9612690723

[guisician]

I remember reading that was the only way he could practice during his stint in the Air Force during WWII.

---

CORRECTION to the above: Hogan was in the Army Air Corps, sorry for the error.

Edited by guisician, 20 February 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Jim Waldron]

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

[dairic]

Jim Waldron, on 20 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

I read somewhere that this is part of the reason why Korean's have recently been so successful at golf. Slow motion action is a basic part of golf teaching over there even at the very high handicap level. I don't remember where I read this so I take it with a grain of salt.

[tylerdurden]

Jim Waldron, on 20 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

Once again, this appears to be another invaluable post. Thank you.

After reading this I realize my mirror training had been super sloppy and unfocused with only brief stints of "deep practice" scattered throughout. I'm going to re vamp how I go about it.

Care to offer any recommended reading on the subject?

Dairic, thanks for the link. I might get that book. If I do I'll post a review.

[Siteseer2]

Jim Waldron, on 20 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

...There is doubt because there is not-knowing.
Yet, beneath each knowing is the next not-knowing,
So knowledge deepens the doubt.
Even in all-knowing, then, there is the doubt of knowing.

[dairic]

Siteseer2, on 20 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Jim Waldron, on 20 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

...There is doubt because there is not-knowing.
Yet, beneath each knowing is the next not-knowing,
So knowledge deepens the doubt.
Even in all-knowing, then, there is the doubt of knowing.

The reason why those who know don't tell and those who tell don't know

[Crab Daddy]

dairic, on 20 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Siteseer2, on 20 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Jim Waldron, on 20 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

...There is doubt because there is not-knowing.
Yet, beneath each knowing is the next not-knowing,
So knowledge deepens the doubt.
Even in all-knowing, then, there is the doubt of knowing.

The reason why those who know don't tell and those who tell don't know

In the absence of sufficient compensation or coercion.

[Siteseer2]

Crab Daddy, on 20 February 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

dairic, on 20 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Siteseer2, on 20 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Jim Waldron, on 20 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I don't recall the sources off the top of my head, but I know that there are several references to Hogan doing slow motion mirror work when making swing changes. My own opnion is that Hogan was a strong believer in slow motion mirror training, and used the practice range for Dynamic Motion training, ie Balance, Rhythm, Tempo, Sequencing and Timing as well as the all important mental focus skills, in Hogan's case, that was usually the Target Picture. And shaping shots of course too.

Tyler - maybe you were not performing the position slow mo practice with a focused mind? Or moving too fast? In my system, slow mo is 30 seconds start to finish of the golf swing. Super slow mo is 60 seconds.

Slow mo is the heart of Asian martial arts body movement pattern training and has an un-matched record of success.

...There is doubt because there is not-knowing.
Yet, beneath each knowing is the next not-knowing,
So knowledge deepens the doubt.
Even in all-knowing, then, there is the doubt of knowing.

The reason why those who know don't tell and those who tell don't know

In the absence of sufficient compensation or coercion.

Nah....too serious... I was trying to wax philosphical to Jim using Tao

Edited by Siteseer2, 20 February 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[guisician]

Tao Te Ching in the Hogan forum; it is a very good day!

[Crab Daddy]

Siteseer2, on 20 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

Crab Daddy, on 20 February 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

dairic, on 20 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Siteseer2, on 20 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

...There is doubt because there is not-knowing.
Yet, beneath each knowing is the next not-knowing,
So knowledge deepens the doubt.
Even in all-knowing, then, there is the doubt of knowing.

The reason why those who know don't tell and those who tell don't know

In the absence of sufficient compensation or coercion.

Nah....too serious... I was trying to wax philosphical to Jim using Tao

Ha! Too deep for me - I'm a know-nothing.

Actually, it reminded me of an old football coach, " Boy, you're as dumb as a pile 'o bricks! You don't even know what you don't know!"

Edited by Crab Daddy, 20 February 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Crab Daddy]

While I'm here, returning to the subject, for however long, is there a trick to keeping unnecessary tension out of the hands/arms when doing mirror work?
I always seem to have a death grip on the club whenever I stop in mid-swing to check takeaway position or top of the swing.

[tembolo1284]

_{My god tyler. another Gem!}

[tembolo1284]

what the heck happened to my font?

[rankoutsider]

Crab Daddy, on 20 February 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

While I'm here, returning to the subject, for however long, is there a trick to keeping unnecessary tension out of the hands/arms when doing mirror work?
I always seem to have a death grip on the club whenever I stop in mid-swing to check takeaway position or top of the swing.

I think this is an issue, but one that you shouldn't get bogged down with.  I find the same thing, and I practice in front of a 6 foot mirror every other day.  You can only emulate positions at very slow speed, not the actual feel of swinging the club, for exactly the reason that you mention.

And of course, if you look at the swings of some of the LPGA stars from Korea/Asia you will see that a few of them barely speed the swing up when they play.  I think they speed it up just enough so they can retain a softer grip pressure when they pass through all of the positions they are after.  As an aside I will say that if you sway laterally down the line (away from the target) as you load, and you want to stop doing this, this is the best practice idea that I know of to make it happen.

Tyler, if you pick up that book, please get a review online.  I would be interested in knowing more.  If I can get a copy myself, I will do the same (some Amazon products do not ship to Canada; I guess the world isn't as small as we think).



Great topic for discussion.

[tembolo1284]

fascinating. Just ordered the book.

[rankoutsider]

tembolo1284, on 26 February 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

fascinating. Just ordered the book.

If you have time to post a quick review after you've read it, that would be very helpful.  Cheers, Rob

[tembolo1284]

rankoutsider, on 26 February 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

tembolo1284, on 26 February 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

fascinating. Just ordered the book.

If you have time to post a quick review after you've read it, that would be very helpful.  Cheers, Rob

Will give a breakdown once I read it in this very thread.

Come on Amazon ship it quick!

[dairic]

tembolo1284, on 26 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

rankoutsider, on 26 February 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

tembolo1284, on 26 February 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

fascinating. Just ordered the book.

If you have time to post a quick review after you've read it, that would be very helpful.  Cheers, Rob

Will give a breakdown once I read it in this very thread.

Come on Amazon ship it quick!

If you give the breakdown in slow motion and in front of a mirror, then it comes out as poetry.

[tembolo1284]

hey did henry picard ever publish anything? Reading about him in the american triumvirate and his influence on hogan. Seemed to be a real stud in his day.

Don't see any books published by him. Dammit I hope he did.

[tembolo1284]

freakin' excited waiting for this book.

[MizunoJoe]

tembolo1284, on 26 February 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

freakin' excited waiting for this book.

I ordered a copy yesterday, but am not nearly as excited as you are! LOL

[rankoutsider]

I'm excited to hear more from both of you guys about the book.

[MizunoJoe]

rankoutsider, on 27 February 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

I'm excited to hear more from both of you guys about the book.

Will write a review after reading.

[tembolo1284]

MizunoJoe, on 27 February 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

tembolo1284, on 26 February 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

freakin' excited waiting for this book.

I ordered a copy yesterday, but am not nearly as excited as you are! LOL

I like reading...what can I say.

[guisician]

I thought the book (SLOW PRACTICE WILL GET YOU THERE FASTER by Ernest Dras) looked familiar; dug it out of a box and am about halfway through. Short book (84 pgs not counting epilogue and appendices),short chapters, basic but important stuff. The author stresses the importance of both relaxation and point of impact. Nik, you'll be interested to learn he was a tennis player (refers to Gallwey's THE INNER GAME OF TENNIS); his experiences playing and teaching tennis, along with studying the Baghavad Gita, got him going on this path. One chapter depicts a slow-practice, sweet spot-finding training aid for tennis he came up with that's quite ingenious; he illustrates the "golf version" of the device later in the book. Honestly, there's not much Hogan here, but the author does tie his "findings" to the Coleman footage and other earlier Hogan "real time slo mo" demonstrations as well as the mirror practice advice from Five Lessons.

To summarize; nothing really new here besides the training aid(s), but provides a concise summary of some important points regarding how we practice and learn.

[tembolo1284]

guisician, on 28 February 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I thought the book (SLOW PRACTICE WILL GET YOU THERE FASTER by Ernest Dras) looked familiar; dug it out of a box and am about halfway through. Short book (84 pgs not counting epilogue and appendices),short chapters, basic but important stuff. The author stresses the importance of both relaxation and point of impact. Nik, you'll be interested to learn he was a tennis player (refers to Gallwey's THE INNER GAME OF TENNIS); his experiences playing and teaching tennis, along with studying the Baghavad Gita, got him going on this path. One chapter depicts a slow-practice, sweet spot-finding training aid for tennis he came up with that's quite ingenious; he illustrates the "golf version" of the device later in the book. Honestly, there's not much Hogan here, but the author does tie his "findings" to the Coleman footage and other earlier Hogan "real time slo mo" demonstrations as well as the mirror practice advice from Five Lessons.

To summarize; nothing really new here besides the training aid(s), but provides a concise summary of some important points regarding how we practice and learn.

very nice! something to think about. Looks like he just slapped Hogan's name on there to get attention then. Damn!

[MizunoJoe]

guisician, on 28 February 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I thought the book (SLOW PRACTICE WILL GET YOU THERE FASTER by Ernest Dras) looked familiar; dug it out of a box and am about halfway through. Short book (84 pgs not counting epilogue and appendices),short chapters, basic but important stuff. The author stresses the importance of both relaxation and point of impact. Nik, you'll be interested to learn he was a tennis player (refers to Gallwey's THE INNER GAME OF TENNIS); his experiences playing and teaching tennis, along with studying the Baghavad Gita, got him going on this path. One chapter depicts a slow-practice, sweet spot-finding training aid for tennis he came up with that's quite ingenious; he illustrates the "golf version" of the device later in the book. Honestly, there's not much Hogan here, but the author does tie his "findings" to the Coleman footage and other earlier Hogan "real time slo mo" demonstrations as well as the mirror practice advice from Five Lessons.

To summarize; nothing really new here besides the training aid(s), but provides a concise summary of some important points regarding how we practice and learn.

Oh well, it was only $16.95 with free shipping!