165 replies to this topic

[myspinonit]

ABgolfer2, on 22 February 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

. . .  I could hold everyone up by pacing off every chip first........not.

Not hard to estimate distance in 5 or 10 yard increments with practice. Next time you're in a conversation with a surveyor ask him (or her) to estimate how many yards (or metres) it is to something. You'd be amazed how close they come. If you're ever in a league or tournament that doesn't allow rangefinders it's a valuable skill.

Thank you. I don't expect ever to be such a league or tournament unless I  do find a surveyor in conversation who can also point me to the Fountain of Youth.

I'm not trying to be peckish.. but I'm honestly not sure if your comments are supposed to be helpful or snide.

Please allow me to clarify.

My pacing off pitches and chips was not serious..I do consider pace of play... Please reread both my posts. My main point wasn't determining 5-10 yard differences (at least to green- hazards maybe a different story) without outside means- rangefinder (or GPS).

MY issue I tried to explain is much shorter shots, misjudging distances. I am a very good wedge player for my 19 cap, with good spin control. When I'm in spitting distance of the green I generally have the pin pulled, as too many shots have hit it and not go in. Generally I'm right there, and I mean right there, by the pin if I miss. And I'm a good putter.

But get me chipping past say 10-15 yards away from the pin, or moreover pitching say 35+,  and I hit it as I think I should, and it stops where I think it should, but too often when I walk to the hole I'm a buck short. i.e. 4-6 feet further from the hole than I "saw" the hole and felt the resultant shot.

MY issue probably is  "disability" in these politically correct times. I have trouble discerning depth perception past say 10-15 yard range. A recent vision review from an optomterist who is a very good golfer brought me to that realization. And it opened my eyes that I will need to be more receptive to find ways to deal with that if I want to improve.

Could I have that number for Ponce de Leon, Surveyor, Inc again please?

Edited by myspinonit, 22 February 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[ABgolfer2]

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 22 February 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

. . .  I could hold everyone up by pacing off every chip first........not.

Not hard to estimate distance in 5 or 10 yard increments with practice. Next time you're in a conversation with a surveyor ask him (or her) to estimate how many yards (or metres) it is to something. You'd be amazed how close they come. If you're ever in a league or tournament that doesn't allow rangefinders it's a valuable skill.

Thank you. I don't expect ever to be such a league or tournament unless I  do find a surveyor in conversation who can also point me to the Fountain of Youth.

I'm not trying to be peckish.. but I'm honestly not sure if your comments are supposed to be helpful or snide.

Please allow me to clarify.

My pacing off pitches and chips was not serious..I do consider pace of play... Please reread both my posts. My main point wasn't determining 5-10 yard differences (at least to green- hazards maybe a different story) without outside means- rangefinder (or GPS).

MY issue I tried to explain is much shorter shots, misjudging distances. I am a very good wedge player for my 19 cap, with good spin control. When I'm in spitting distance of the green I generally have the pin pulled, as too many shots have hit it and not go in. Generally I'm right there, and I mean right there, by the pin if I miss. And I'm a good putter.

But get me chipping past say 10-15 yards away from the pin, or moreover pitching say 35+,  and I hit it as I think I should, and it stops where I think it should, but too often when I walk to the hole I'm a buck short. i.e. 4-6 feet further from the hole than I "saw" the hole and felt the resultant shot.

MY issue probably is  "disability" in these politically correct times. I have trouble discerning depth perception past say 10-15 yard range. A recent vision review from an optomterist who is a very good golfer brought me to that realization. And it opened my eyes that I will need to be more receptive to find ways to deal with that if I want to improve.

Could I have that number for Ponce de Leon, Surveyor, Inc again please?

Wow. Thought I was offering helpful advice, but it tuns out Raymond Floyd would be jealous of your short game. Rock on!

[myspinonit]

ABgolfer2, on 22 February 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 22 February 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

. . .  I could hold everyone up by pacing off every chip first........not.

Not hard to estimate distance in 5 or 10 yard increments with practice. Next time you're in a conversation with a surveyor ask him (or her) to estimate how many yards (or metres) it is to something. You'd be amazed how close they come. If you're ever in a league or tournament that doesn't allow rangefinders it's a valuable skill.

Thank you. I don't expect ever to be such a league or tournament unless I  do find a surveyor in conversation who can also point me to the Fountain of Youth.

I'm not trying to be peckish.. but I'm honestly not sure if your comments are supposed to be helpful or snide.

Please allow me to clarify.

My pacing off pitches and chips was not serious..I do consider pace of play... Please reread both my posts. My main point wasn't determining 5-10 yard differences (at least to green- hazards maybe a different story) without outside means- rangefinder (or GPS).

MY issue I tried to explain is much shorter shots, misjudging distances. I am a very good wedge player for my 19 cap, with good spin control. When I'm in spitting distance of the green I generally have the pin pulled, as too many shots have hit it and not go in. Generally I'm right there, and I mean right there, by the pin if I miss. And I'm a good putter.

But get me chipping past say 10-15 yards away from the pin, or moreover pitching say 35+,  and I hit it as I think I should, and it stops where I think it should, but too often when I walk to the hole I'm a buck short. i.e. 4-6 feet further from the hole than I "saw" the hole and felt the resultant shot.

MY issue probably is  "disability" in these politically correct times. I have trouble discerning depth perception past say 10-15 yard range. A recent vision review from an optomterist who is a very good golfer brought me to that realization. And it opened my eyes that I will need to be more receptive to find ways to deal with that if I want to improve.

Could I have that number for Ponce de Leon, Surveyor, Inc again please?

Wow. Thought I was offering helpful advice, but it turns out Raymond Floyd would be jealous of your short game. Rock on!

Trying to be helpful? If so, you said it poorly. I took issue to the quoted one line, out of context, in your reply to my prior post.  That institigated my reply, that I do apologize for that to be snide on my own end more than my usual character.

You did not reference my main points in my posts in either reply (that I had suggested you reread). My posts referenced  my attempt to explain relevant to this thread why I was "too often a buck short" for longer short shots due to vision issues and that I was considering alternate ways thanks to this thread.

I didn't mean to imply I was Ray Floyd caliber, though I did say, " I am a very good wedge player for my 19 cap" and gave some examples that I am much more on target distance-accuracy wise for short shots when I am close enough to judge the distance well.

I would prefer to let this go as an example how technology vs traditional communication leads to misunderstandings. There are some metaphors (either way) for positions to this thread too I suppose.

Good night. I'm done with this.

Edited by myspinonit, 23 February 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[ABgolfer2]

myspinonit, on 23 February 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Trying to be helpful? If so, you said it poorly. I took issue to the quoted one line, out of context, in your reply to my prior post.

At the risk of taking something really out of context, my original suggestion was read at least as poorly as it was written. Ironically by leaving out all your self deprecating comments (exaggerated in jest?) it's harder too see that my comment was made with good intentions. No insult intended on my part.

Edited by ABgolfer2, 23 February 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[myspinonit]

ABgolfer2, on 23 February 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

myspinonit, on 23 February 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Trying to be helpful? If so, you said it poorly. I took issue to the quoted one line, out of context, in your reply to my prior post.

At the risk of taking something really out of context, my original suggestion was read at least as poorly as it was written. Ironically by leaving out all your self deprecating comments (exaggerated in jest?) it's harder too see that my comment was made with good intentions. No insult intended on my part.

Thanks , AB, for clarifying and none taken.
As I said last night "I would prefer to let this go as an example how technology vs traditional communication leads to misunderstandings."  I recalled overrnight that when I was working I encouraged  folks to deal with important issues over the phone rather than email,(follow-up the results by email sure). This was to minimize misunderstanding and misinterepretiion which also necessitated repeated back and forth clarifications.

Edited by myspinonit, 23 February 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[DrSchteeve]

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 22 February 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

myspinonit, on 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

. . .  I could hold everyone up by pacing off every chip first........not.

Not hard to estimate distance in 5 or 10 yard increments with practice. Next time you're in a conversation with a surveyor ask him (or her) to estimate how many yards (or metres) it is to something. You'd be amazed how close they come. If you're ever in a league or tournament that doesn't allow rangefinders it's a valuable skill.

Thank you. I don't expect ever to be such a league or tournament unless I  do find a surveyor in conversation who can also point me to the Fountain of Youth.

I'm not trying to be peckish.. but I'm honestly not sure if your comments are supposed to be helpful or snide.

Please allow me to clarify.

My pacing off pitches and chips was not serious..I do consider pace of play... Please reread both my posts. My main point wasn't determining 5-10 yard differences (at least to green- hazards maybe a different story) without outside means- rangefinder (or GPS).

MY issue I tried to explain is much shorter shots, misjudging distances. I am a very good wedge player for my 19 cap, with good spin control. When I'm in spitting distance of the green I generally have the pin pulled, as too many shots have hit it and not go in. Generally I'm right there, and I mean right there, by the pin if I miss. And I'm a good putter.

But get me chipping past say 10-15 yards away from the pin, or moreover pitching say 35+,  and I hit it as I think I should, and it stops where I think it should, but too often when I walk to the hole I'm a buck short. i.e. 4-6 feet further from the hole than I "saw" the hole and felt the resultant shot.

MY issue probably is  "disability" in these politically correct times. I have trouble discerning depth perception past say 10-15 yard range. A recent vision review from an optomterist who is a very good golfer brought me to that realization. And it opened my eyes that I will need to be more receptive to find ways to deal with that if I want to improve.

Could I have that number for Ponce de Leon, Surveyor, Inc again please?

This is Golfwrx.  Can't let this go: you are a 19 handicap, yet you have a great short game?  You have the flag pulled because you hit it too often?!?  I've seen that one time - Phil Mickelson at Torrey Pines, on 18 when he had to hole the wedge to win.  And he didn't.  And you are a good putter?

[myspinonit]

DRSchteeve said:"This is Golfwrx.  Can't let this go: you are a 19 handicap, yet you have a great short game?  You have the flag pulled because you hit it too often?!?  I've seen that one time - Phil Mickelson at Torrey Pines, on 18 when he had to hole the wedge to win.  And he didn't.  And you are a good putter?"

I knew this would probably come up...this is Golfwrx indeed .... I'm not sure if you have read my later clarifying post.

I wasn't trying to overstate my game, but clearly I did unintentionally.

Yes,  I think that my short game result on close chips is very good for my level (my post you quoted said "for my 19 cap").  It is NOT nearly as good for longer chips which I am learning is something I have to counteract with practice and with my depth perception. If I hit a shot well, but have misjudged the actual distance by 6 feet, is that not going to affect my score and my handicap?

Yes, I prefer to pull the pin more often than not on short chips as I find it it helps me focus more on the target (hole) and I've experienced more times that leaving the pin in probably was a deflector than an enhancer. And I am a good putter. I didn't say I was Phil or Ray or try to imply that.

The issue I was trying to state pertinent to this thread was that I recently had it reinforced by a very good golfer and optometrist that my depth perception would make things more difficult on longer chips/pitches to judge the distance. So for me, some outside assistance (rangefinder, GPS, new glasses, secondary cues from the environment) and just plain practice are all things that I will want to consider for accurate measurement on longer shots near the green.

The nearsightedness/ depth perception also affects my perception of pin placement on longer approach shots as well,  that might be better served by  a rangefinder over a GPS, that  I'm reconsidering with this thread.

I hope we can let this go now please and get back to the thread. Thank you. I've said all the points I think I want to say on the issues.

Edited by myspinonit, 23 February 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Jean-Claude]

Distance control is one aspect that pros blow away amateurs. When I am shooting my iron shots I shoot lower, every time. I have 5 minutes to take a shot. I have 15 seconds to shoot my yardage.

[golfnut5438]

I only use my laser to play mind games with the guy who is bothered by me using it.  I really don't care about the yardage.  

[Imp]

golfnut5438, on 11 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

I only use my laser to play mind games with the guy who is bothered by me using it.  I really don't care about the yardage.  

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.  That's awesome.  

--kC

[kellygreen]

Mr Back, on 12 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Drives me crazy when people do this...Thoughts?

Sprinkler heads---if they are accurate---only give distance to the middle.

They leave out front, back, and distance to any significant hazards.

The best why to speed up play is to hit fewer shots.  Those few extra moments may save MANY extra minutes trying to extricate one's self from trouble after having pulled the wrong club.

[sigmapete1]

So as I see it, the debate here isn't rangefinder vs. no rangefinder.  It's knowing yardage vs. estimating yardage.  Let's assume for sake of argument that one would rather know the yardage than estimate it.  Not sure why anyone would think an estimate is better but I am punting on that debate.  

A rangefinder is more accurate, quicker, and gives more information (bunker face, pin, front edge, back edge, or anything else you can point at), and is more available (how often are you standing on a sprinkler?) than course markers.  

Other than the purist, all technology is bad, argument, whats really the downside to using a rangefinder?  

(Side note....I'm even with the people that use it inside 50, maybe as close as 25-30?  I want to know the difference between 35yds and 45yds.  It's beneficial for the shot at hand and also creates a learning situation where you can connect a certain feel to an exact distance.  Do that enough and you will know exactly how a 35yd pitch feels different from a 45yd pitch.  Some people do that visually, others benefit from having a number in their head.)

[ABgolfer2]

sigmapete1, on 13 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

So as I see it, the debate here isn't rangefinder vs. no rangefinder.  It's knowing yardage vs. estimating yardage.  Let's assume for sake of argument that one would rather know the yardage than estimate it.  Not sure why anyone would think an estimate is better but I am punting on that debate.  

A rangefinder is more accurate, quicker, and gives more information (bunker face, pin, front edge, back edge, or anything else you can point at), and is more available (how often are you standing on a sprinkler?) than course markers.  

Other than the purist, all technology is bad, argument, whats really the downside to using a rangefinder?  

(Side note....I'm even with the people that use it inside 50, maybe as close as 25-30?  I want to know the difference between 35yds and 45yds.  It's beneficial for the shot at hand and also creates a learning situation where you can connect a certain feel to an exact distance.  Do that enough and you will know exactly how a 35yd pitch feels different from a 45yd pitch.  Some people do that visually, others benefit from having a number in their head.)

The issue with rangefinders and SOME PEOPLE (nobody on golfwrx.com of course) is they're already too slow. They're not good enough to take advantage of more accurate information which takes more time to process and does not result in a better stroke being put on the ball or the ball ending up any closer to the pin than a ballpark distance using whatever form of estimation they use.

I have no problem whatsoever with someone gathering more accurate data before they hit the ball, if they do it quickly and have even a remote chance at hitting better shots with slightly more accurate numbers (not talking about GPS since there's estimation there too). Unfortunately a lot of guys fiddle with their rangefinder then still flub the shot. It's doesn't take very long to take a shot with a laser (I know - I have one too) but we all know that just because something can be done quickly doesn't mean the average "happy with a 5 hour round" weekend golfer will not get it done in anything quicker than a snail's pace. It's reality.

Balls at the 150? Walk to the 150, set bag down, pull 150 club, aim for the centre of the green. What could be more simple than that?

Edited by ABgolfer2, 13 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

The simplest possible way to play golf would be to carry one club. Walk to the ball, hit it with your club, keep walking. Nothing could be more simple that that!

[ABgolfer2]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 13 March 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

The simplest possible way to play golf would be to carry one club. Walk to the ball, hit it with your club, keep walking. Nothing could be more simple that that!

That's exactly how I learned to play golf. One club playing the ball to a peg in the ground over about a 500 yard course. Had to chip the ball and hit the peg to "hole out". Same as shinny on the outdoor rinks - had to hit the post to score. Some people feel the need to complicate very simple tasks. Whatever floats their boat . . . as long as they do it without delay.

Edited by ABgolfer2, 13 March 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[sigmapete1]

ABgolfer2, on 13 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

sigmapete1, on 13 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

So as I see it, the debate here isn't rangefinder vs. no rangefinder.  It's knowing yardage vs. estimating yardage.  Let's assume for sake of argument that one would rather know the yardage than estimate it.  Not sure why anyone would think an estimate is better but I am punting on that debate.  

A rangefinder is more accurate, quicker, and gives more information (bunker face, pin, front edge, back edge, or anything else you can point at), and is more available (how often are you standing on a sprinkler?) than course markers.  

Other than the purist, all technology is bad, argument, whats really the downside to using a rangefinder?  

(Side note....I'm even with the people that use it inside 50, maybe as close as 25-30?  I want to know the difference between 35yds and 45yds.  It's beneficial for the shot at hand and also creates a learning situation where you can connect a certain feel to an exact distance.  Do that enough and you will know exactly how a 35yd pitch feels different from a 45yd pitch.  Some people do that visually, others benefit from having a number in their head.)

The issue with rangefinders and SOME PEOPLE (nobody on golfwrx.com of course) is they're already too slow. They're not good enough to take advantage of more accurate information which takes more time to process and does not result in a better stroke being put on the ball or the ball ending up any closer to the pin than a ballpark distance using whatever form of estimation they use.

I have no problem whatsoever with someone gathering more accurate data before they hit the ball, if they do it quickly and have even a remote chance at hitting better shots with slightly more accurate numbers (not talking about GPS since there's estimation there too). Unfortunately a lot of guys fiddle with their rangefinder then still flub the shot. It's doesn't take very long to take a shot with a laser (I know - I have one too) but we all know that just because something can be done quickly doesn't mean the average "happy with a 5 hour round" weekend golfer will not get it done in anything quicker than a snail's pace. It's reality.

Balls at the 150? Walk to the 150, set bag down, pull 150 club, aim for the centre of the green. What could be more simple than that?

I agree with everything you said.  It's not the use of the rangefinder that is the problem, its the person who is slow regardless of whether they use a rangefinder, GPS, sprinkler heads, a yardage book, a caddie, or the force.  

I would add that yes, if the ball is at the 150 then the simplest thing to do is pull the 150 club and fire away.  But the simple easy method doesn't always get the best result, especially when the 150 marker was really 142 from the middle of the green, the pin was 12 yards up, and I just simply put the ball 20 yards past the pin to the back of a two tiered green putting back downhill.