78 replies to this topic

[PJ72]

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Cheers Monte.

[gators78]

MonteScheinblum, on 19 February 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

Head stays back and that creates tilt which shallows your angle of attack and gives your arms more room to rotate around your body.

Your head should never move forward (not even on a knockdown or punch shot) and many great players actually move it away from the target because they tilt so hard.  Watch a youtube video of Jamie Sadlowski...two time world long drive champion.

Awesome stuff Monte, quick question for you though. When I try to add tilt it seems my upper body wants to tilt (win) but my waist turns almost parallel with the ground and pain ensues (lose). Is there a way to tweak setup, or some other move I'm missing, to help get some room on the right midsection but still tilting? Keep right foot down? Close the stance? Stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

[MonteScheinblum]

gators78, on 19 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 19 February 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

Head stays back and that creates tilt which shallows your angle of attack and gives your arms more room to rotate around your body.

Your head should never move forward (not even on a knockdown or punch shot) and many great players actually move it away from the target because they tilt so hard.  Watch a youtube video of Jamie Sadlowski...two time world long drive champion.

Awesome stuff Monte, quick question for you though. When I try to add tilt it seems my upper body wants to tilt (win) but my waist turns almost parallel with the ground and pain ensues (lose). Is there a way to tweak setup, or some other move I'm missing, to help get some room on the right midsection but still tilting? Keep right foot down? Close the stance? Stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

Hips more forward at address helps.  Some people have success feeling the left hip work up.

Edited by MonteScheinblum, 19 February 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[russc]

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Boogaloo_Jones, on 18 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Thanks for this video Monte.  I think the turning first motion is the reason why I hit hosel rockets that go nothing but OB right, especially for driver.

Turn in a barrel makes you a fish.

Swinging in barrel is a great visual image and an accurate way to describe the golf swing

[MonteScheinblum]

russc, on 20 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Boogaloo_Jones, on 18 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Thanks for this video Monte.  I think the turning first motion is the reason why I hit hosel rockets that go nothing but OB right, especially for driver.

Turn in a barrel makes you a fish.

Swinging in barrel is a great visual image and an accurate way to describe the golf swing

I don't want to get in a shouting match over philosophies, I just see the hips turning too level and not enough impact tilt being created that way.

One of those agree to disagree moments, if you will.

Edited by MonteScheinblum, 20 February 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[russc]

MonteScheinblum, on 20 February 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

russc, on 20 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 18 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Thanks for this video Monte.  I think the turning first motion is the reason why I hit hosel rockets that go nothing but OB right, especially for driver.

Turn in a barrel makes you a fish.

Swinging in barrel is a great visual image and an accurate way to describe the golf swing

I don't want to get in a shouting match over philosophies, I just see the hips turning too level and not enough impact tilt being created that way.

One of those agree to disagree moments, if you will.

Monte we really do not disagree very much on this .just bear with me
A number  years ago i met an old Scottish  golf pro.He told me  how  he was taught to swing the club as a youngster.He said  that he  played in heavy tweeds and always wore ties .Such clothing often interferred with his  swings and obscurred what was happening in the swing    .He added that he  played with hickory shafts which required a great deal of hand manipulaton to square up the club.Swinging in the barrel was standard operating procedure at that time and worked well.This Scottish gentleman  lived through great  technological changes over many  decades and was   very  forward looking  with his  teaching techniques.He realized that the old Scottish idea of  swinging in a barrel needed to be adapted to modern times  .
First the barrel needed to reflect a normal barrel from the hips down .From the hips up the barrel needed to  be slightly tilted away from the target  .Then as a golfer made his backswing  , he still  would be swinging inside the barrel ,but he would be swinging on a  slight tilt away from the target.The downswing was even more interesting.He thought that if someone could figure out how to place sensors on the front inside of the barrel that could  loosen the hoops   when   pressure was applied  and  expanded  the front part of the barrel .it would be an ideal way of making  the downswing.With a wedge ,there would be only a small amount of pressure on the front inside of the barrel so the barrel would only expand slightly ,but with a driver there would be more pressure and the front inside  of barrel would expand a greater amount to allow the left hip to move more laterally
So there you have  it, swinging  in a barrel ,the modern  way.

[mccarthyizm]

That's a pretty complicated barrel. I pity the cooper smith tasked with building it

[dairic]

Gary Player is the man. Shallowing the club in transition starting at 3:42

[CosmosMpower]

Mark Crossfield just posted a good video about swallowing shaft plane in relation to hand plane.  Pretty interesting that the hands don't have to drop down behind your body just the shaft needs to flatten.  Too many people have had it drilled into their head that the hands drop down and that move is very hard to achieve.

Edited by CosmosMpower, 21 February 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[MonteScheinblum]

CosmosMpower, on 21 February 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Mark Crossfield just posted a good video about swallowing shaft plane in relation to hand plane.  Pretty interesting that the hands don't have to drop down behind your body just the shaft needs to flatten.  Too many people have had it drilled into their head that the hands drop down and that move is very hard to achieve.

Well, yes and no.  They do drop slightly in most good swings, but not the reroute people try to do.  If they drop in sync with the turn, it only turns into a couple of inches.  It's when they drop independently that its a problem.

Edited by MonteScheinblum, 21 February 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[Crab Daddy]

dairic, on 21 February 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Gary Player is the man. Shallowing the club in transition starting at 3:42

You nailed it, dairic. That overhead view is priceless.
All the older swings seem to be unique - like how he initiates the takeaway with his right knee.

[Hoganstriker]

The topic of this thread is weird when I read it.  DS shallowing?  Do you mean backing it up into impact?

Teehee my silly attempt at humor.

To me its soft hands with a good aggressive ds the SWING is always a SWING to me so take it for what its worth.  Everyone has their opinion on it-to me its a good setup grip and patience that leads to good swings-not forced pulls or pushes.  FWIW I did not watch any vids posted here but Monte's usually all over the real deal.

[dairic]

Crab Daddy, on 22 February 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

dairic, on 21 February 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Gary Player is the man. Shallowing the club in transition starting at 3:42

You nailed it, dairic. That overhead view is priceless.
All the older swings seem to be unique - like how he initiates the takeaway with his right knee.

When people figure sh!t out by themselves they end up looking bad a$$ for sure.

[Chris Peterich]

Gerry hogan is the way to go for this...slot is all he teaches

[CosmosMpower]

So I've been trying to get the club more up instead of around on the backswing.  Been hitting the ball with mixed results.  The shaft is still really steep on the downswing though, fixing the backswing didn't seem to make much of an effect on the downswing.  I posted a new video with a more upright backswing.  http://golf.ubersens...o/view/2tAlZOL5

Edited by CosmosMpower, 28 March 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[CosmosMpower]

Can any instructors take a look?

[David C]

CosmosMpower, on 29 March 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Can any instructors take a look?

Retrace your steps. Have you turned deep enough? Have you sucked the club inside, then up, then the downswing is a steepening reaction.

I've had a similar problem. A band aid was cupping my RIGHT - I'm right handed - wrist. This dropped my elbow in. But soon I was completing my backswing with a closed bowed face, rather than waiting for the swing to complete.

Personally I think the steepening is caused by trying to accelerate the club immediately, because more speed can be attained this way. Practise this a lot and develop an upper body that is still going back whilst the lower body transitions and you are also ingraining a reluctance to change, as 'waiting on it' is going to feel weak and, at first, will be weak. I think most steepening shafts have to be caused by turning too soon, some force has to occur to tip it forward, or the golfer, sensing the swing will wipe left will drop the hands low, and increase the wristc0ck, knowing the club will spring forward in the next moment.

I've spent sessions trying to REALLY drop my arms, hands, the works, REALLY aggressively, and this gets the shaft inside, but still steepening. I truly believe the turning motion can wreck a swing and imparts tremendous force that can't be adequately opposed.

I think there are two ways to cure this, and they're not mutually exclusive. First way is to make a deep, half backswing with a driver, concentrating on arm width, then easing laterally towards the target then releasing the club fully. For a rotational swinger like me this FELT down the line, but wasn't. Just focus on smoothing some drivers out there, don't add speed, I promise it will come just focus on smoothing it. I found that once I developed some rhythm I had time to apply power when I sensed it; I think a lot of people go to a rotary swing thinking they can BANG! turn from the top, or eliminate timing. I think tempo and rhythm are really crucial still - you have to time the swing, even if you don't need to time the face angle or release. You could make sure that your head rotates right, and your weight goes to the right foot - doesn't mean you swing over your right side, but you do need to let your weight flow right and left.

Another drill is to focus on the lower left side clearing laterally, the right foot rolling left on to the instep, and the right shoulder dropping, the body squatting, the left shoulder clearing. Let the club slide down in transition. I try and pump the swing three times, quite aggressively on the third time. My personal problem is a hip spin out, so my focus isn't on hitting the ball, it's on extending the angles in transition, until I automatically turn. In fact, I think lateral, lateral, lateral. I had a sesion where the club wasnt squaring, so I focused on the hips going laterally and slamming my elbow into my ribcage to swaure the face by my upper body turn - hips FELT working laterally all the while the upper body turned. This is why I think proper instruction is vital: thinking 'lateral' might destroy your swing, whereas thinking 'turn' causes me to spin. A good instructor will advocate what is correct for YOU. Trust for me is key - Slide then turn. Or more accurately - slide then slide some more! Anytime I hit a less than compressed shot in this drill I see on tape that I spun first. You REALLY have to feel the weight is through the left leg, beyond it even, before turning. It's anathema to me, so I share your frustration, because I just want to rip it from the top, and I've ingrained lag and my body moving in two directions in transition, and it feels at first like I'm never going to be able to accelerate the club to anything like I have done hitting from the top, but you have to persist with feeling smooth and slower in transition or you'll never get it IMHO.

[Invincentble]

CosmosMpower, on 12 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Jim Waldron, on 12 February 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

Cosmos - You have a bit of Hit Impulse happening, ie your upper arms are moving out away from your body toward the ball. And you aren't tilt switching. Either or both cause the shaft to steepen or not flatten enough. Both are basically universal errors for vast majority of golfers.

Could you please explain tilt switching?  You're right I do have a bit of a hit impulse, what's the best way to fix that?  I think I do it being a skinnier guy I feel like I have to try and muscle the ball to hit it anywhere.  I've had good success previously hitting the ball with what felt like no arm/shoulder/hand action and just rotating hard into the ball but I couldn't play golf with that swing as it was so inconsistent.

Just watched your video and recognized the driving range you are at. I'm there almost every other day at DA spring Creek.

[jblacoustics]

My thoughts on this is get the hands inside in takeaway then lift it up with R forearm, then on top fire pivot right away while R wrist kept bent and L arm being pulled back or stretched by R forearm. If you don't lay it off, means your shoulders are turning flatter in BS than DS. So turn should be flatter in DS, not BS. If you now do and you're hitting out to in, just make shoulder turn more upright/steeper until you get sufficiently in to out to the ball.