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Teach me about spin and the wind


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#1 bag302

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

I'm often playing in 15mph+ winds.

Lets say my driver spin is 2500 with a 14* launch in windless conditions.

I assume spin will go way up into the teeth of the wind and the ball will balloon.

Conversely, spin will go way down in a tail wind and I won't get enough carry.

Would I be better off with 2 drivers to maximize distance for each condition? I could easily drop another club to make room.


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#2 Rock Chalk Jayhawk

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:35 PM

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.

#3 DoubleEagleAt12

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:41 PM

Thing to remember in the wind is just to NOT over swing. Hitting it solidly, the wind won't have as much effect on the ball. I personally wouldn't use 2 drivers I think it would be best to just have one good one that your confident in with an overall good traj. It's not how far u hit it, it's how straight.

#4 LONG&STR8

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

Stick with what you are fitted with and tee it higher when the wind is at your back to maximize carry and lower and smooth into the wind. Know that you will lose distance into the wind but if you have the right spin for your swing you will lose as little as possible.

#5 nitram

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

View PostRock Chalk Jayhawk, on 07 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.

Jerry Jeff had a different take on this.....

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#6 myspinonit

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

View PostRock Chalk Jayhawk, on 07 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.

How many fairways must one walk down
Before that hole in one?
How many tees must a white ball sail
Before she sets in the sand?
Yes, how many times must the anchored putt
Before they’re forever banned?
The answer my friend is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

I think the answer is just swing easy.

Edited by myspinonit, 08 February 2013 - 12:29 AM.

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#7 WUGolfer3118

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:50 PM

I play in Wichita, KS where we have one windless (less than 15mph) a month, and at least three where it's 35+. If you're launching that high with that little of spin you'll be fine. Into the wind either swing easier to keep the spin down, or move the ball back in your stance and play a lower shot that will have some draw spin on it. Down wind, just tee it up higher. If the wind is blowing 15-20 it's not that big of a deal despite what the commentary guys on tv want you think lol. Happy playing!

#8 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

The spin does not increase into the wind or decrease with the wind. What changes is the velocity of the wind across the cover of the ball. THIS is what can cause ballooning into a stiff breeze. if 2500 is your optimum spin in still weather, I would leave well enough alone when hitting into the wind (unless you're SEEING severe ballooning). Oddly, I find I get longer distance sometimes with my 3w when hitting with the wind because the added spin helps keep the ball aloft longer.

YMMV.

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#9 bag302

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostRi_Redneck, on 08 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

The spin does not increase into the wind or decrease with the wind. What changes is the velocity of the wind across the cover of the ball. THIS is what can cause ballooning into a stiff breeze. if 2500 is your optimum spin in still weather, I would leave well enough alone when hitting into the wind (unless you're SEEING severe ballooning). Oddly, I find I get longer distance sometimes with my 3w when hitting with the wind because the added spin helps keep the ball aloft longer.

YMMV.

BT

Actually I think the added air resistance from a head wind adds more spin and lift to the ball.

I bring all this up because I recently switched to a low spin setup. On the course I am seeing great distance gains in windless and into the wind over my previous setup.

With the wind at my back, I saw the ball knuckle and hit the ground prematurely. Still rolled along way, but not as far as my previous higher spin driver.

#10 stumblinhorse

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

What I have seen is more unpredictable ball flight in the wind with a low spin set up, mine is a Anser 8.5.  I haven't seen anything consistent other than low spin is impacted more in the wind.  I am not saying that the impact is always negative, it does seem to fly further in some cases, but sometimes it seems that in a cross wind the impact is greater than my i20 setup.


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#11 Arthur Jennings

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

I'm in the UK so typically play in wind all the time. I saw a good piece of instruction of GD (I think) and have applied the principles to my driving game on windy days. Essentially the advice was to tee it higher into the wind, which will naturally encourage a slightly shallower angle of attack, ergo less spin. I have always found that teeing it lower gives a 'take off' type of ball flight, which will buzz the ground for 100yds or so and then get up in the air before dropping suddenly about 200 yds from the tee!

Then I either hit a 3 wood or really lean back on a driver to get it up in the air down wind so it doesn't get 'knocked down' - that is only on 25mph+ days though.

Just my two-penneth worth though - Sergio is one of the best drivers of the ball the game has seen and he regularly takes divots with the big dog when trying to nail it into the breeze.

#12 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

View Postbag302, on 08 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

View PostRi_Redneck, on 08 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

The spin does not increase into the wind or decrease with the wind. What changes is the velocity of the wind across the cover of the ball. THIS is what can cause ballooning into a stiff breeze. if 2500 is your optimum spin in still weather, I would leave well enough alone when hitting into the wind (unless you're SEEING severe ballooning). Oddly, I find I get longer distance sometimes with my 3w when hitting with the wind because the added spin helps keep the ball aloft longer.

YMMV.

BT

Actually I think the added air resistance from a head wind adds more spin and lift to the ball.

I bring all this up because I recently switched to a low spin setup. On the course I am seeing great distance gains in windless and into the wind over my previous setup.

With the wind at my back, I saw the ball knuckle and hit the ground prematurely. Still rolled along way, but not as far as my previous higher spin driver.

You misunderstand my post. The wind DOES NOT increase the amount the ball is spinning. If the ball is spinning at 3000 rpm in still air, it is also spinning at 3000 rpm into a headwind / tailwind. The spinning of the ball causes resistance against the air. When hitting into a headwind, the resistance is increased because the wind is moving at you (increases the resistance compared to still conditions). The opposite is true when hitting with a tailwind because the wind is moving away from you (less resistance).

Yes, the wind WILL affect the curvature of the ball, ie ballooning. However, a certain amount of backspin is needed on a golf ball for stability. How much backspin you need for certain circumstances depends on your ball speed. With higher ball speed, you can get better distance with lower backspin. However, lower ball speed player NEED backspin to optimize their distance. A great way to see what I mean is to go to the Flightscope Optimizer and see what backspin gives the best distance for your ball speed.

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#13 Dpavs

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

The Flightscope Optimizer is interesting and revealing... I'm certain I've been told and knew this but its great to see how you need to increase the loft angle as you decrease the spin rate to maximize the distance.

#14 ronsc1985

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:03 PM

If anyone is really interested in what happens in the wind it is easy to download a free program like Trajectoware Drive from Dave T's site. The program computes many things using  a computational iterative method.

As an example using a swing speed of 95 mph with a launch angle of 16.5 and 2500 rpm spin the following occurs at various wind speeds

Wind speed  -15 mph   carry 209.9(yds) ,Max height(yds) 36.6, Final spin 1780 rpm..
Wind speed 0  mph   carry 232.1(yds) ,Max height(yds) 33.1, Final spin 1821 rpm
Wind speed +15 mph   carry 247.0(yds) ,Max height(yds) 29.7, Final spin 1862 rpm


Note the final spin is not much affected by the wind speed or direction.
These results are the physics of golf ball ballistics which are well known and have been for some time.

#15 bag302

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostRi_Redneck, on 12 February 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

View Postbag302, on 08 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

View PostRi_Redneck, on 08 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

The spin does not increase into the wind or decrease with the wind. What changes is the velocity of the wind across the cover of the ball. THIS is what can cause ballooning into a stiff breeze. if 2500 is your optimum spin in still weather, I would leave well enough alone when hitting into the wind (unless you're SEEING severe ballooning). Oddly, I find I get longer distance sometimes with my 3w when hitting with the wind because the added spin helps keep the ball aloft longer.

YMMV.

BT

Actually I think the added air resistance from a head wind adds more spin and lift to the ball.

I bring all this up because I recently switched to a low spin setup. On the course I am seeing great distance gains in windless and into the wind over my previous setup.

With the wind at my back, I saw the ball knuckle and hit the ground prematurely. Still rolled along way, but not as far as my previous higher spin driver.

You misunderstand my post. The wind DOES NOT increase the amount the ball is spinning. If the ball is spinning at 3000 rpm in still air, it is also spinning at 3000 rpm into a headwind / tailwind. The spinning of the ball causes resistance against the air. When hitting into a headwind, the resistance is increased because the wind is moving at you (increases the resistance compared to still conditions). The opposite is true when hitting with a tailwind because the wind is moving away from you (less resistance).

Yes, the wind WILL affect the curvature of the ball, ie ballooning. However, a certain amount of backspin is needed on a golf ball for stability. How much backspin you need for certain circumstances depends on your ball speed. With higher ball speed, you can get better distance with lower backspin. However, lower ball speed player NEED backspin to optimize their distance. A great way to see what I mean is to go to the Flightscope Optimizer and see what backspin gives the best distance for your ball speed.

BT

I see from the other poster's numbers that you are correct and spin is minimally affected. I should have been more focused on lift which seems to be the key variable.

Like an airplane taking off into a headwind vs tailwind.





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