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I've spent twenty years trying to avoid a strong left hand (and now it's encouraged !!)

grip golf teaching sucks strong left hand

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#1 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

Quote

.. If you are gripping the club correctly, the "V" joint of the left hand should be pointing to the left shoulder .. (pulled from a source on the internet)

I am annoyed.
Well, actually relieved.
But I should be annoyed.

I have spent twenty years trying to weaken my left hand to prevent hooking because a strong left hand grip "was a contributer to hooking". ("The hook is in the left hand" idea).  My goal was to have the V in the left hand point to between the left shoulder and head.  Phrased another way, I wanted the back of my left wrist to face the target.

I'm not "blaming anyone" and when I learned the idea of avoid too strong a left hand, I can't say my understanding of the golf swing was beyond a few cover articles in Golf Digest.  What I will say ... is that avoiding a strong left hand was actively encouraged 20 years ago.  Of course, now there is Dustin Johnson !

g5671.jpg

I can't wait to love my strong left hand again. (as bad as that sounds)
I wonder if a strong left hand grip will feel like someone else is gripping my shaft (sorry, couldn't resist).

Q: Can anyone trace back to when a stronger left hand was starting to be encouraged ?  

I suspect if you tracked PGA players grip over the last 50 years, you would see a significant trend in a strengthening on their left hands.   Anyone want to guess what are the driving forces at play here ?  Where there any pivotal events that contributing to a stronger left hand [pun unintended] ?

I think "what is neutral" has changed so much in 20 years that weak today is neutral from 20 years ago !


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#2 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

strong.grip.meme.jpg
Stay strong, my friends.

#3 Daniel Eason

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

A complete mere golf numpty input to this...

1. The ball has changed requiring a different impact and AoA
2. Club technology has changed?
3. More things like tilt and shoulder turn are allowing us to leverage stronger left hand grips

#4 HoldTheLag

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

Upright lie angles?

#5 Cwebb

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:21 PM

In this age of information that we're in, where we have access to an almost limitless amount of info and opinions from some of the best in the world,....most players, even many of the best, have had to completely wipe the slate clean in terms of what they thought was "best" for them,...and/or what the best players really did and why.

This is a much different era that we're in now, even compared to just 10-15 years ago, because of access to information.

Many doing complete overhauls with their entire swing, not just the grip or one piece.  Many 'scratch' players doing this


#6 Coach E

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:30 PM

Lots of prominent strong grip players throughout history.  Palmer, Trevino, Couples, Lehman, Stewart, Azinger, Duval, Zach Johnson Gainey, and Weekley to name a few.

#7 cbrian

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:42 PM

Some pretty good faders of the ball in that group as well

#8 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

Have any golf pros changed how they teach the grip ... over the last 20 years ?

#9 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:02 PM

FYI:
For those that care ...
I was learning over the past 2 years that a stronger grip isn't the demon it was thought of back in the day.

But this just did it in for me.
I was reading this ..
http://www.aroundhaw...-continued.html
And saw this comment:

kmiyahira.strong.grip.suggestion.jpg

#10 HappyGolf

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:10 PM

View PostSunkTheBirdie, on 03 February 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:


I'm not "blaming anyone".......


Gotta blame Hogan and the 5 Lessons!!


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#11 PJ72

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

View PostSunkTheBirdie, on 03 February 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Quote

.. If you are gripping the club correctly, the "V" joint of the left hand should be pointing to the left shoulder .. (pulled from a source on the internet)

I am annoyed.
Well, actually relieved.
But I should be annoyed.

I have spent twenty years trying to weaken my left hand to prevent hooking because a strong left hand grip "was a contributer to hooking". ("The hook is in the left hand" idea).  My goal was to have the V in the left hand point to between the left shoulder and head.  Phrased another way, I wanted the back of my left wrist to face the target.

I'm not "blaming anyone" and when I learned the idea of avoid too strong a left hand, I can't say my understanding of the golf swing was beyond a few cover articles in Golf Digest.  What I will say ... is that avoiding a strong left hand was actively encouraged 20 years ago.  Of course, now there is Dustin Johnson !

g5671.jpg

I can't wait to love my strong left hand again. (as bad as that sounds)
I wonder if a strong left hand grip will feel like someone else is gripping my shaft (sorry, couldn't resist).

Q: Can anyone trace back to when a stronger left hand was starting to be encouraged ?  

I suspect if you tracked PGA players grip over the last 50 years, you would see a significant trend in a strengthening on their left hands.   Anyone want to guess what are the driving forces at play here ?  Where there any pivotal events that contributing to a stronger left hand [pun unintended] ?

I think "what is neutral" has changed so much in 20 years that weak today is neutral from 20 years ago !


I've recently been recommended to adopt a stronger left hand (it pretty neutral before) by my local pro.

I've been working on a one-plane swing and when i adopt a stronger left hand and reach the top of the backswing, the left thumb fully supports the grip/shaft of the club. If i use a neutral grip in this top position, the left thumb is not supporting the grip/shaft properly. I find it gives hands/wrists power by using the thumbs as leverage on the club.

Does the implementation of this have something to do with Jim Hardy's one-plane swing teachings (i don't think he mentions it on any of his DVD's)?

#12 Dixie Flatline

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

I just moved back to a stronger left hand and it's been fantastic.  I'm basically trying to keep the left hand's cocking motion and the right wrists bending motion in the same direction (or pretty close).  I'm hitting it straighter and it brought me trajectory back under control.

#13 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostDixie Flatline, on 03 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I'm basically trying to keep the left hand's cocking motion and the right wrists bending motion in the same direction (or pretty close).
Wow. That sounds good.
Aren't all good grips like that ?
Maybe I don't understand what you mean.

#14 iteachgolf

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostSunkTheBirdie, on 03 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

View PostDixie Flatline, on 03 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I'm basically trying to keep the left hand's cocking motion and the right wrists bending motion in the same direction (or pretty close).
Wow. That sounds good.
Aren't all good grips like that ?
Maybe I don't understand what you mean.
No they aren't.  Right wrist bend and left wrist c0ck on same plane comes from a rotated (strong) top hand with less rotated (neutral) bottom hand.

#15 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

I'd love to see some face on images of this grip vs. a grip with a neutral left hand.



View Postiteachgolf, on 03 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

View PostSunkTheBirdie, on 03 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

View PostDixie Flatline, on 03 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I'm basically trying to keep the left hand's cocking motion and the right wrists bending motion in the same direction (or pretty close).
Wow. That sounds good.
Aren't all good grips like that ?
Maybe I don't understand what you mean.
No they aren't.  Right wrist bend and left wrist c0ck on same plane comes from a rotated (strong) top hand with less rotated (neutral) bottom hand.


#16 goobers80

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

I always felt easier to cut / fade the balls with stronger left hands. It was easier to hold the face square / open for me.  Peoples always wants to tell me that strong left means a draw , but i disagrees with that.
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#17 Professor D

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:22 AM

I use and teach what I call a "natural" grip. That is when the angle of the left wrist is the same, relative to the ground, that it would be when hanging naturally at your side. This is well "inward" and would traditionally be called "strong". Used today by Nick Watney, Bubba Watson, and Dustin Johnson, to name just a few.

#18 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostProfessor D, on 04 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I use and teach what I call a "natural" grip. That is when the angle of the left wrist is the same, relative to the ground, that it would be when hanging naturally at your side. This is well "inward" and would traditionally be called "strong". Used today by Nick Watney, Bubba Watson, and Dustin Johnson, to name just a few.

Do you have pictures of it ?
How do you "do it" (instructions) ?

#19 Hstead

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

View PostProfessor D, on 04 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I use and teach what I call a "natural" grip. That is when the angle of the left wrist is the same, relative to the ground, that it would be when hanging naturally at your side. This is well "inward" and would traditionally be called "strong". Used today by Nick Watney, Bubba Watson, and Dustin Johnson, to name just a few.

This is what my teacher taught me 20 years ago.  It depends on a persons anatomy.  However your arm and hand hangs naturally, is how you should place it on the club.  If you look at different people, one will stand with their arms very relaxed and their thumbs point inward toward their thigh, then another person will stand with a relaxed arm and their thumb points out in front of them.  I happen to have thumbs and hands that are turned quite a bit inward so my grip would be considered pretty strong as I can see about three knuckles.
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#20 Dixie Flatline

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostSunkTheBirdie, on 03 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

View PostDixie Flatline, on 03 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I'm basically trying to keep the left hand's cocking motion and the right wrists bending motion in the same direction (or pretty close).
Wow. That sounds good.
Aren't all good grips like that ?
Maybe I don't understand what you mean.

iTeach pretty much covered it.  My palms don't face each other.  My right palm is aligned with the club face, so bending the right wrist back would keep the club face square to the plane.  My left hand is turned stronger so that it would c0ck in pretty much that same move.  Your pic of Dustin Johnson is pretty close.  My left hand is in the same place, but my right might be a hair weaker.  If I get a chance this weekend, I'll take a picture.


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#21 Lefthook

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

I've spent twenty years trying to avoid a strong left hand (and now it's encouraged !!)


Feels like cheating, doesn't it? :pimp:

#22 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostLefthook, on 04 February 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

I've spent twenty years trying to avoid a strong left hand (and now it's encouraged !!)
Feels like cheating, doesn't it? :pimp:

It does !
:)

#23 cac022

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostHstead, on 04 February 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

View PostProfessor D, on 04 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I use and teach what I call a "natural" grip. That is when the angle of the left wrist is the same, relative to the ground, that it would be when hanging naturally at your side. This is well "inward" and would traditionally be called "strong". Used today by Nick Watney, Bubba Watson, and Dustin Johnson, to name just a few.

This is what my teacher taught me 20 years ago.  It depends on a persons anatomy.  However your arm and hand hangs naturally, is how you should place it on the club.  If you look at different people, one will stand with their arms very relaxed and their thumbs point inward toward their thigh, then another person will stand with a relaxed arm and their thumb points out in front of them.  I happen to have thumbs and hands that are turned quite a bit inward so my grip would be considered pretty strong as I can see about three knuckles.

When my arms and hands hang naturally by my side my palms are facing behind me. Does this mean I should be using a stronger grip?

#24 gators78

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostCoach E, on 03 February 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Lots of prominent strong grip players throughout history.  Palmer, Trevino, Couples, Lehman, Stewart, Azinger, Duval, Zach Johnson Gainey, and Weekley to name a few.

Sure seems like a lot of strong grips out there on Tour, you could easily add to that list without much effort.

#25 Hstead

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

View Postcac022, on 05 February 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

View PostHstead, on 04 February 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

View PostProfessor D, on 04 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I use and teach what I call a "natural" grip. That is when the angle of the left wrist is the same, relative to the ground, that it would be when hanging naturally at your side. This is well "inward" and would traditionally be called "strong". Used today by Nick Watney, Bubba Watson, and Dustin Johnson, to name just a few.

This is what my teacher taught me 20 years ago.  It depends on a persons anatomy.  However your arm and hand hangs naturally, is how you should place it on the club.  If you look at different people, one will stand with their arms very relaxed and their thumbs point inward toward their thigh, then another person will stand with a relaxed arm and their thumb points out in front of them.  I happen to have thumbs and hands that are turned quite a bit inward so my grip would be considered pretty strong as I can see about three knuckles.

When my arms and hands hang naturally by my side my palms are facing behind me. Does this mean I should be using a stronger grip?

Yes it sounds like it.

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#26 CrisPy3

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:30 AM

Sorry for the dumb question but I'll ask anyway. For a rightie - I understand a strong LEFT hand means turned to the right. Does a strong RIGHT hand mean the same (pointed to the right) or is it opposite?

#27 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:05 AM

View PostCrisPy3, on 08 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Sorry for the dumb question but I'll ask anyway. For a rightie - I understand a strong LEFT hand means turned to the right. Does a strong RIGHT hand mean the same (pointed to the right) or is it opposite?
Opposite.
A strong top hand (right) for a lefty is strong when it is turned to the left.  
Strong Top Hand = see more more knuckles regardless of lefty or righty.


Strong Bottom Hand = see more more fingers regardless of lefty or righty.

It's better to not use right or left.
Just practice using the terms stronger and weaker and how that relates to your top and bottom hands.
It'll help you read instructions better.

Edited by SunkTheBirdie, 08 February 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#28 tembolo1284

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:15 AM

Fun thread sunk.

Nice to see kelvin make a comment on that.
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#29 shortstop20

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostCrisPy3, on 08 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Sorry for the dumb question but I'll ask anyway. For a rightie - I understand a strong LEFT hand means turned to the right. Does a strong RIGHT hand mean the same (pointed to the right) or is it opposite?

For a right handed player, moving either hand so that the V's point further to their right(away from target) would be making the grip "stronger".

#30 coldmark

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

I apologize if this is bad etiquette to revive a post.   I'm going to give the strong left/weak right a try.  It seems to do 2 things for me:

1.  Reduce flipping.   The club face seems to square on auto pilot.  Perhaps I had a small flip to square the club.
2. Keeps hands ahead at impact without effort.

It also seems to lower my usual towering ball flight.  Anyone have luck with this?   Or is this voodoo science?


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