99 replies to this topic

[Grim]

Ok, I have been wanting to send a rather rant like email to this course after my last round, but figured I needed to cool off first and decided to ask you all what are your opinions.

I play at this course in Columbus Ga maybe once a month on a rotational period with other courses me and my buddys play in a month.

They have a policy that stipulates all golfers and groups are expected to finish each nine in 2 hours.

Ok, first, me and my firends all play golf in the upper 70s to low 90s and have a ready golf mentality, we hate slow play. If we hit a ball deep in the woods, we dont bother to waste time looking, and if we think it may be finable in the edge of the tree line, we do a drive by and if we see it we play it, if not we drop.

So we are playing, having a good round when I notice a two some has caught up to us. Without thinking about it we decided to tee off and then let them play through on the par 3 which is the next hole so we do not keep these guys waiting.

So as we get to the next tee box a marshall drives by and says, "Hey guys, you need to pick it up, its been 2 hours." Im like dude we are a foursome and its the 8th tee box but whatever. So a buddy of mine decides to explain to the guy we are letting this two-some play through. The marshall gets angry and says not to do that cause we will be slowing play down even more. Whatever, we still let them play through.

Now, this past sunday its the same group of guys. Im having one of my best rounds so far of 2013. I am 1 over going into hole 8, the same par 3, and as we pull up here comes the marshall. This time he pulls up and rudely asks, " You boys no how long it is taking you all to play?" My friend kinda snubly says, "Not as long as it takes some of these groups." The marshall then tells us we need to pick it up because the group ahead of us has already made the turn. The group ahead of us is a two-some. I then go on to ask how a foursome is expected to play just as fast as a two-some and that the group that tee'd off behind us is 2 holes back.

AM I out of line emailing them and telling them that I feel they are trying to rush people off the course instead of enjoying the game? This seems ridiculous.

Edited by Grim, 29 January 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[JustTheTips]

You don't hate slow play very much if your happy playing at a 4:30 type pace on an open course.  It is good to see a course trying to encourage you to play at a decent clip rather than letting your be 4 slugs out on the course.

[kevcarter]

If the group behind you is two holes back, that ranger needs to find something else to do other than harass you...

JustTheTips. 4 slugs? Really?

[mesquite2]

If the course tells you to make the turn in 2 hours & you are on the 8th tee at 2 hours then you are out of position & the marshall is doing his job. letting a 2some thru shouldn't take more than 6 or 7 minutes.

[kevcarter]

mesquite2, on 29 January 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

If the course tells you to make the turn in 2 hours & you are on the 8th tee at 2 hours then you are out of position & the marshall is doing his job. letting a 2some thru shouldn't take more than 6 or 7 minutes.

Agree on the first part of the story. My comment was based on he second encounter. How do you feel about that issue?

Kevin

[misterlau]

just be thankful you even have marshals trying to keep pace of play.

on the first incident, it sounds like you know that you should be finishing 9 in 2, so you can't really blame the marshal for doing his job. i mean, with two holes left to finish, your going to take at least 15 more minutes, which means you'll most likely end your round 30 minutes over what's expected.

on the second incident, you don't specify the time, which is really the important issue to the marshal. i would almost bet that the same thing happened and you just reached the eighth tee at the 2hr mark. doesn't really matter how far the group ahead or behind is, if you know they have a 4hr round policy, then you can't really complain.

honestly, if the marshal just rolled up and told you guys you were behind or to speed it up, why couldn't you just say "sorry about that, we'll pick up the pace"? regardless if he was right or not, a simple response like this would make him feel like he was doing his job and get him off your back. then instead of a whole back and forth that wastes more time, he would just drive away.

[gsteitz]

i wish more courses would enforce pace of play, its all too rare.

not to be abrasive, but i think as long as the traffic allows, two hours for nine is very reasonable.  i feel that a foursome moving with efficiency, should easily be able to play a round in about 3.5 hours (walking) without feeling rushed.  

keep in mind, little things can really add up.

[Grim]

I just don't see how any of you think on average most foursomes can finish in 4 hours.

If everyone in the group is less than say a 10-16 handicap maybe but how many weekend warrior groups can finish in less than 4 hours?

I play to enjoy the game at decent to nice courses. When a courses policy is shoved down your throat where is the fun and enjoyment?

I have no issues with them doing their job but those two incidents seem obsurd.

The first incident was a foursome letting a twosome play through which is just common courtesy and the last one we were at the 2 hour mark on the 8th hole with a group two holes behind us and being told we need to be able to keep up with the twosome ahead of us.

[Hateto3Putt]

I never get mad when I see a Marshal doing his job.

Forget the twosome behind you... where was the group in front of you? Why no mention of them?

If you were in position, then, no problem. If there was a gap, then you were out of position.

[Jim Clark]

If you are not being held up by a group in front of you and you are on the 8th tee at 2 hours, you are WAY slow, that's a 5 hour pace. We played a public track on a recent Sunday with another couple from our club (our club was closed). The group two groups up was way out of place (probably two holes open in front of them). My buddy called the pro shop twice and FIRMLY told them they better do something about it or it would be a 6 hour round. We were at 2 hours on the 7th tee. The group in front of us was just as frustrated. A marshal finally came out and lit a fire under the slow group and things picked up. He told us that 2 groups had been "asked" to leave the course that day. We ended up finishing in 5 hours. For a crowded public course with 8 min tee times, that is the unfortunate norm. The 8 min tee times overload the course.

Even if nobody was pushing you from behind, the marshal was right.

[Arsey51]

Was it the same course and the same marshal?
Some marshals are laid back and only 'whip' when there's a long delay.  Others feel as if they have to 'whip' every group no matter what their pace of play.
If you play public courses (as most of us do), you should get used to inconsistent marshaling.

You should also make sure you do everything you can to maintain pace.
   If you're a four and pushing a twosome, you're probably not playing slow and the marshal is a grumpy old git.
   If there's nobody in front of your foursome, you're on the 8th hole at the 2 hour mark, and the marshal is pestering you......Maybe you're not playing as fast as you think.

[fairways4life]

I've never agreed with the policy of having to keep up with the group in front of you. Like the OP said, what if the group in front of you is a twosome in a cart and you're a foursome walking? Should you really be expected to keep up? Or what if the group in front of you is one of those "I play 18 holes in an hour and 45 minute" types? Should you really be expected to keep up with that?

As much as slow play bothers me I'm almost equally bothered by the 100-yard dash golfers that play like they're just trying to get it over with. I used to occasionally play with a group of guys who played this way. They would never read a putt, never mark their ball. They would all hit their approach shots and chips at the same time. They would basically sprint to the next tee box. Anything inside five feet was kicked back to you. I went along with it because I felt pressured to keep up the pace that they were setting. We would play 18 holes as a foursome in under 2 hours and I hated it. How is that fun? We were playing as if we couldn't wait to be done and we just wanted to get it over with. I only got to play about once a week in those days so why should I rush through it like that? I want to enjoy my one round of golf for the weekend after busting my hump at work all week. If you just want it to be over as soon as possible why are you out there in the first place?

That being said, don't accuse me of enjoying 5 hour rounds. I hate them as much as the next person. I think 3 to 3 1/2 hours is a good pace for a foursome. That means you aren't waiting to hit any shots and you're playing ready golf but at the same time you're getting the most of the round and if you have a 15-footer for birdie you're actually taking your time to make a good read and put a good stroke on it. You're taking a few seconds to get a yardage and choose a club from the fairway and not just glancing at the 150 marker and yanking a club. You're finishing off every putt and not scooping up four footers with break -- for the sanctity of both the game and your score.

Golf isn't cheap and we don't get to do it as much as we'd like. You're paying good money to be out there playing the game you love with people you like. Savor it.

Edited by fairways4life, 29 January 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Par-A-Medic]

I say find a nicer course with a more doable timetable. Slow play is slow play but a public course with a normal mix of people generally takes a group 4.5 hours. That's 100+ rounds a year expierence. In both examples you would likely have been turning in 15 minutes  and as far as I can tell if the course is so busy that u have to be done in 2 hours a nine, they shouldn't let twosomes out at all.

[DD4442]

A golf course is a one-lane freeway.  Golf is a social occasion, hopefully played by people with social skills.  From the bag check stand to the pro shop to the driving range to the first tee we interact with others.  It's not a bike ride in the mountains or a swim in the ocean.  Each round is different and you just have to use your head and figure it out - even if a Marshall is being unjust or the people behind or in front are being uncivil.

A five hour pace is too long and a 4 hour pace can be (under weekend prime-time circumstances) too quick.  Gotta figure it out without killing each other.  Afterall, it's not the NBA out there.  Swing away...

[nbg352]

Grim, on 29 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I just don't see how any of you think on average most foursomes can finish in 4 hours.

If everyone in the group is less than say a 10-16 handicap maybe but how many weekend warrior groups can finish in less than 4 hours?

I play to enjoy the game at decent to nice courses. When a courses policy is shoved down your throat where is the fun and enjoyment?

I have no issues with them doing their job but those two incidents seem obsurd.

The first incident was a foursome letting a twosome play through which is just common courtesy and the last one we were at the 2 hour mark on the 8th hole with a group two holes behind us and being told we need to be able to keep up with the twosome ahead of us.

If this is how you realy feel, then you are the problem that golf courses are trying to find a solution for. Do you think that golf courses set times that are designed to tick their patrons off? They set what they consider to be reasonable times for the average player and weekend warrior (you and I) to complete a round in and expect that those times will be maintained in order to maximize the fun quotient for EVERYONE playing, not just the select few who don't like the expectation put in front of them at the beginning of a round.
Do you not realize that on both occasions you were at the 2 hour mark on the 8th tee? You were, in effect, two holes behind time. At 13  minutes per hole, you're 26 minutes behind the 2 hour per 9 holes mark, on your way to a nearly 5 hour round. The marshall was right to speak to you on both occasions. I'm sure he deals with others that both you and he think are slow, in a similar way. Your group plays in the high 70's to the 90's? You are the 10-16 cappers that by your own standards, are certainly capable of a 4 hour round. Giddyup!

[driverwedge]

nbg352, on 29 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Grim, on 29 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I just don't see how any of you think on average most foursomes can finish in 4 hours.

If everyone in the group is less than say a 10-16 handicap maybe but how many weekend warrior groups can finish in less than 4 hours?

I play to enjoy the game at decent to nice courses. When a courses policy is shoved down your throat where is the fun and enjoyment?

I have no issues with them doing their job but those two incidents seem obsurd.

The first incident was a foursome letting a twosome play through which is just common courtesy and the last one we were at the 2 hour mark on the 8th hole with a group two holes behind us and being told we need to be able to keep up with the twosome ahead of us.

If this is how you realy feel, then you are the problem that golf courses are trying to find a solution for. Do you think that golf courses set times that are designed to tick their patrons off? They set what they consider to be reasonable times for the average player and weekend warrior (you and I) to complete a round in and expect that those times will be maintained in order to maximize the fun quotient for EVERYONE playing, not just the select few who don't like the expectation put in front of them at the beginning of a round.
Do you not realize that on both occasions you were at the 2 hour mark on the 8th tee? You were, in effect, two holes behind time. At 13  minutes per hole, you're 26 minutes behind the 2 hour per 9 holes mark, on your way to a nearly 5 hour round. The marshall was right to speak to you on both occasions. I'm sure he deals with others that both you and he think are slow, in a similar way. Your group plays in the high 70's to the 90's? You are the 10-16 cappers that by your own standards, are certainly capable of a 4 hour round. Giddyup!

Very well said, nbg.

[HoosierMizuno]

i think its great to hear that a marshal was actually doing his job speeding up play. i will admit its probably not needed if the course isn't crowded and the group behind isnt on the previous hole, but at the rate you were playing it was only a matter of time until you were holding things up.

whether you realize it or not, 5 hour rounds are LONG rounds and you are playing slow.

teeing off on hole eight at the 2 hour mark means you had played 7 holes of golf in 120 minutes. thats 17 minutes a hole. at that pace it would be another 30 min to finish 9, and 18 would be around 5 hours. that is Slow no matter how you look at it, and its even worse if you didn't have a group in front of you to wait on.

if you can't tell i hate slow play.

[jaskanski]

It's difficult to comment without actually seeing what happened, but if the attention of the Marshall is drawn to your fourball, you've got ask yourself if you are part of the problem. It's all very well saying you don't feel you did anything wrong, but 99% of slow golfers feel exactly the same way - largely oblivious to the situation.
I'd take the incident as a wake up call and rather than sending an email to the course, have a chat with the Marshall instead to smooth things out. He's only doing his job - and for whatever reason (er...pace?) you caught his attention. Take your medicine rather than burn your bridges.

[Hateto3Putt]

jaskanski, on 29 January 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's all very well saying you don't feel you did anything wrong, but 99% of slow golfers feel exactly the same way - largely oblivious to the situation.

Correction: 99.9%.

I've never met a slow player who believed they were slow.

Ever.

(but I will allow for the .01% that are out there somewhere...)

[bruinsPATSirish]

If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.

[Hateto3Putt]

bruinsPATSirish, on 29 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.

Where could someone find 3 other people who enjoy 7 hour rounds?

[swizbeatz]

You weren't really in the wrong in either situation.  Stop in at the turn or after the round and extremely nicely explain that you feel the ranger is a little out of line.  There are lots of solutions but if you do the first part and do it nicely I doubt the person inside will be anything but helpful.

[swizbeatz]

bruinsPATSirish, on 29 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.

Agreed but to an extent.  A 7 hour round on a busy course will impact pace of play even if you let every group through.  The ones getting screwed are the groups teeing of 3 hours after you that have to deal with the delays you created.

If its an empty course, I agree you paid to play the round and pace shouldn't matter.

[nbg352]

bruinsPATSirish, on 29 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.

Another one who just doesn't get it. Just because there is someone even more snail like playing behind you is no excuse for you to take all the time in the world. You paid your money? So did everyone else out there. And if you and the group behind are the only one's smiling, then that means everyone else is ticked off. And they're ticked at you. They came out, paid their money with the expectation of a 4 hour round and ended up behind you and the even slower group behind you. Those unhappy guys, expecting a 4 hour round are unhappily stuck at a 5 or more hour pace, in part, because of your cavalier attitude..

[HiSpeed48]

In the first situation it appears that you fell behind a bit, since the marshall made it sound like there were multiple groups right behind you and the group ahead was almost 2 holes ahead of you.

Second situation I think the marshall over-reacted a bit, since you were way ahead of the group behind you and therefore you weren't slowing anyone else down.

[somaplr]

If there was no one infront of you and you are on the 8th hole after two hours....you are playing very, very slow...especially if you have carts.

That is the course policy...and a good one at that I might add.  If you have a big problem with it, just don't go back.  An email to them isn't going to solve much, just a waste of time.

[nbg352]

HiSpeed48, on 29 January 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

In the first situation it appears that you fell behind a bit, since the marshall made it sound like there were multiple groups right behind you and the group ahead was almost 2 holes ahead of you.

Second situation I think the marshall over-reacted a bit, since you were way ahead of the group behind you and therefore you weren't slowing anyone else down.

Yet the group was still two holes (8 & 9) behind the pace of play endorsed by the golf course. The marshall was well within his rights to request that they speed up. I'm sure that his next task was the super slow group 2 holes back of this slow one.

[sheppy335]

I am amazed a marshall came by, BTW what is a marshall? At my course i think they encourage 5 plus hour rounds. They think it makes you hungry and thirsty.


I am glad they are pushing to keep things moving. You are right a 2 some will always be faster then a 4 some. I have to remind my wife when i am playing with a group that i will be slower then when i go as two or one.

Now does the marshall need to be rude, no. If he sees you are moving at a good clip and not holding people up then tell you hey your a little off the recommended pace but keep moving like you are.

[bruinsPATSirish]

swizbeatz, on 29 January 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

bruinsPATSirish, on 29 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.

Agreed but to an extent.  A 7 hour round on a busy course will impact pace of play even if you let every group through.  The ones getting screwed are the groups teeing of 3 hours after you that have to deal with the delays you created.

If its an empty course, I agree you paid to play the round and pace shouldn't matter.

nbg352, on 29 January 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

bruinsPATSirish, on 29 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.

Another one who just doesn't get it. Just because there is someone even more snail like playing behind you is no excuse for you to take all the time in the world. You paid your money? So did everyone else out there. And if you and the group behind are the only one's smiling, then that means everyone else is ticked off. And they're ticked at you. They came out, paid their money with the expectation of a 4 hour round and ended up behind you and the even slower group behind you. Those unhappy guys, expecting a 4 hour round are unhappily stuck at a 5 or more hour pace, in part, because of your cavalier attitude..

Another guy that doesn't get it??? Did you guys read what I said?  I said if you are not holding a group up on the course than it should not matter how long it takes them to play.  I work at a VERY busy golf course and we strictly enforce a 2 hour and 15 minute pace when we have any number of groups going off back to back.  But there are always days when there are only a few groups out on the course for whatever reason and pace of play isn't going to be enforced if there are no issues.  Read what is said guys....

Edited by bruinsPATSirish, 29 January 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[nbg352]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1359487143' post='6323385']
[quote name='swizbeatz' timestamp='1359483707' post='6322857']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1359483360' post='6322797']
[size=5]If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through [/size]it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.
[/quote]

Agreed but to an extent.  A 7 hour round on a busy course will impact pace of play even if you let every group through.  The ones getting screwed are the groups teeing of 3 hours after you that have to deal with the delays you created.

If its an empty course, I agree you paid to play the round and pace shouldn't matter.
[/quote]
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1359483981' post='6322903']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1359483360' post='6322797']
If you are not holding up a group behind you and showing the courtesy to let a faster group play through it should not matter what your group's pace is at all.  If it takes your group 7 hours to play it doesn't matter.  You payed to play the round and if you aren't holding anyone up the pace of play should not be a factor.
[/quote]
Another one who just doesn't get it. Just because there is someone even more snail like playing behind you is no excuse for you to take all the time in the world. You paid your money? So did everyone else out there. And if you and the group behind are the only one's smiling, then that means everyone else is ticked off. And they're ticked at you. They came out, paid their money with the expectation of a 4 hour round and ended up behind you and the even slower group behind you. Those unhappy guys, expecting a 4 hour round are unhappily stuck at a 5 or more hour pace, in part, because of your cavalier attitude..
[/quote]

Another guy that doesn't get it??? Did you guys read what I said?  I said if you are not holding a group up on the course than it should not matter how long it takes them to play.  I work at a VERY busy golf course and we strictly enforce a 2 hour and 15 minute pace when we have any number of groups going off back to back.  But there are always days when there are only a few groups out on the course for whatever reason and pace of play isn't going to be enforced if there are no issues.  Read what is said guys....
[/quote]
I read what you said. I stand behind my observation that the golf course's 4 hour policy trumps anyone's idea that they can take as long as they want just because an even slower group's  behind them. Did it occur to you that the group 2 holes behind them is doing so because they have capitulated to the knowledge that they are in for a long day,? Because of them? The Marshall did the right thing. And if you work for a golf course with a strict pace of play policy and you agree with and support that policy, you shouldn't be talking about 7 hour rounds. Not for anyone, not at any time , not at any golf course.