20 replies to this topic

[maninbrownrubber]

No, I’m not in an alternative industry – maninbrownrubber is from my surf fishing days decked out in neoprene.

So, I fully intended to bag my Cleveland CG16 Tour irons for at least part of 2013 – until I walked into a local store and hit a Cleveland 588MB 6 iron shafted with DG S300. I’ve been there before so I held off, returned a week later and hit the same club again. I love this club and hit it in the center if the face.

Scouring the bay I discover 588 MB’s shafted with KBS tour stiff. I jumped on the price and asked questions later. Here is the response I got from the seller (whom I do not have an issue with): “The KBS shafts are Cleveland installed and the swingweight on the 5 iron is d-0.”

Cleveland website has the 4-9 @ D2 and the PW at D3 all with Dynamic Gold.

Clubs haven’t even shipped yet and I’m contemplating having somebody jack the swingweights (without lead tape) back to the standard that I really liked when I hit them at the store. Smart people will recommend that I hit them before doing anything but I’m not smart…

I guess my question is has anybody switched from DG (that they hit well) without having to increase the SW with the KBS Tours? Does the decreased swingweight cause people to start hitting heel, toe, late, early, etc...

Thanks

[Nessism]

Two swingweight points isn't all that much.  Most people wouldn't be able to tell, but some would.  To me the bigger difference is the total weight between the two shafts: KBS Tour S is at least 10 grams lighter per shaft than DG S300.  The heavier weight is significant in my experience.  Personally, I've never liked DG for that reason.  Have played KBs Tour and found it much more to my liking.  Not trying to sway you with my opinion, just highlight that total weight is a big factor in selecting shafts.

If you are committed to the clubs regardless at this point, jacking the swingweight up on the KBS tour's will make them feel more like the DG.  You may want to go even higher than D2 though, to compensate for the lower total weight.  Regardless though, you should hit the clubs first before deciding.

Edited by Nessism, 27 January 2013 - 11:36 AM.

[DC300]

Don't over think it, they are lighter overall and will feel a bit different, try them, then figure it out.

[sblack5]

I used to game 130 gram x100s.....over the summer I moved to 130 gram kbs tour shafts.......kbs is sooo much smoother.  I game mine really heavy because I like all my gear heavy but Going from one to the other all being equal the dg felt harsh by comparison.   Youll be very happy

[pdaero]

SBlack - I'm doing the same thing. Had gamed the S300s but wanted something smoother and higher launching, while being a little stiffer - got a set of SS'd KBS X on the BST. Going in this coming weekend! I'm excited.

[rocker40]

pdaero, on 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

SBlack - I'm doing the same thing. Had gamed the S300s but wanted something smoother and higher launching, while being a little stiffer - got a set of SS'd KBS X on the BST. Going in this coming weekend! I'm excited.

Let me know how those turn out.  I have S300s and will probably change them to KBS Tour later this year.

[HoosierMizuno]

recently bought new irons and was deciding between kbs S and s300. hit both on launch monitor and compared results. i got a little more distance and higher flight from the kbs. not too high or balooning. i was actually hitting it too low with the s300. the main reason i chose KBS was i was getting better dispersion. much more consistent. i went back and forth several times making sure it wasn't just random better swings, but the KBS was making a difference .

[jph4387]

They are fairly close flex wise.  The KBS has a different profile than the Dynamic Gold.  The DG's have a lower flight and slightly lower spin but are also heavier.  For my ballflight, I should be in Dynamic Gold's but I actually picked up distance with the KBS.  I attribute it to the flex profile and lighter weight.  When I had DG's in my AP2's, the overall clubweight was much higher and I think too heavy for me to swing consistenly.  I would probably be better in CTapers but I'm loving the feel of the KBS tours and don't see myself switching anytime soon.

I have also heard the KBS is for a smooth transition whereas the DG performs better with a hard transition.

Edited by jph4387, 28 January 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Puppetmaster]

I played KBS Tours for 2+ years and DG for 20+ years. Loved the feel of the KBS Tours, but to me, there was something about them that required more a more deliberate swing, even at the swing weight as the DG. The DGs just feel "right" to me and gave me the most consistency. Played them both at D-2 with midsize grips. The launch and spin difference was negligible for me. Words of wisdom from my fitter - the more you can forget about the shaft and head and just focus on hitting the ball, the better - the DGs do exactly that for me.

[maninbrownrubber]

HoosierMizuno, on 28 January 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

recently bought new irons and was deciding between kbs S and s300. hit both on launch monitor and compared results. i got a little more distance and higher flight from the kbs. not too high or balooning. i was actually hitting it too low with the s300. the main reason i chose KBS was i was getting better dispersion. much more consistent. i went back and forth several times making sure it wasn't just random better swings, but the KBS was making a difference .

Do you know if the KBS you had demoed were like lets say 2 swingweight points lower that the DG?

rocker40, on 28 January 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

pdaero, on 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

SBlack - I'm doing the same thing. Had gamed the S300s but wanted something smoother and higher launching, while being a little stiffer - got a set of SS'd KBS X on the BST. Going in this coming weekend! I'm excited.

Let me know how those turn out.  I have S300s and will probably change them to KBS Tour later this year.

Ill be sure to report back.

[dunn]

Cause heads are lighter in kbs shafts

Anytime you reshaft to kbs swingweights are a must, I have done 3/4 sets and always had to add tipweights for kbs shaft

It is possible that's what happened here, same head but in a kbs shaft it is lighter......dgs300 is standard shaft for cg16 tour irons

[yonghov]

jph4387, on 28 January 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

They are fairly close flex wise.  The KBS has a different profile than the Dynamic Gold.  The DG's have a lower flight and slightly lower spin but are also heavier.  For my ballflight, I should be in Dynamic Gold's but I actually picked up distance with the KBS.  I attribute it to the flex profile and lighter weight.  When I had DG's in my AP2's, the overall clubweight was much higher and I think too heavy for me to swing consistenly.  I would probably be better in CTapers but I'm loving the feel of the KBS tours and don't see myself switching anytime soon.

I have also heard the KBS is for a smooth transition whereas the DG performs better with a hard transition.

Agreed my DGs always felt a touch too heavy, I will be looking at KBS on my next set

[maninbrownrubber]

Finally a semi-warm day and the verdict is in. My first choice would be to trade these straight-up for the same mint condition set with DGS300. Short of that, I'm reshafting.

KBS felt lifeless to me. Perhaps that what others sense as "smooth" but its not for me. I love the feel of the clubhead mashing into the ball (although its not, it feels like compressing the ball to half its diameter). I get that far more frequently with DG.

Also, had the two 6 irons checked out and as others had chimed in, the KBS Tour shafted iron is 1.5 swingweight points lower than the DGS300

And it goes on...

[justaman5]

play a few rounds before you drop them.  KBS works better in the wind.  has a tighter dispersion    hit ten balls with a s300   and ten balls with the KBS   and you will find the KBS balls are a much smaller circle.   and heck yeah you can take a rip with them.   i certainly dont sissy swing with anything.    i played DGX100 from 1986 till 2009   you cant make your choice on some machine   play them  play them play them

[maninbrownrubber]

"play them  play them play them" - Justaman - Thanks for what looks to be some sound advice - and I think ill take it for a bit. Maybe get the TV cords (which I seem to death grip) off there and give them a fair shot.
Now what do I do with the S300's and ferrules that I rushed in here!

Thanks again

[pdaero]

To each his own, certainly. I was fair about the S300s as they performed well enough, but certainly ballooned into the wind for me. My first round on Saturday with the KBS X ss'd was amazing - smoother feel, higher flight with the 3-5 (exactly why I switched), but best of all, markedly improved distance control. Never had distance control like this, and my 73 could have been so much better with a few putts. Don't know if the fact that they're spined makes a difference, but the dispersion is also incredible!

To answer your original question about swingweight, I didn't face any issue because I was going from 130g to 130g. Actually, they feel heavier - a few shafts had tip weights, and the set might be more in the D3-D4 range which I'm certainly enjoying. When I get the shaft going, momentum takes its course and I've hit some great shots. Can't wait for the future with these!

[rwill]

I'm in the same boat. Went from mp32's s300 to mp59 kbs tour x. I've played about 15 rounds now and just can not find the sweet spot. I was very good with the 32's. I can't feel where the head is. Thinking about lead tape the heads but have no idea how much to use. Not sure it would even help.

[HoosierMizuno]

justaman5, on 26 February 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

play a few rounds before you drop them.  KBS works better in the wind.  has a tighter dispersion hit ten balls with a s300   and ten balls with the KBS   and you will find the KBS balls are a much smaller circle.   and heck yeah you can take a rip with them.   i certainly dont sissy swing with anything. i played DGX100 from 1986 till 2009   you cant make your choice on some machine   play them  play them play them

exactly why i went with the KBS.

wasn't making my decision based on feel and the difference in lauch was so small it wasn't a factor. what was a factor was hitting on a launch monitor and seeing dispersion. hit 20 to 30 shots with kbs vs s300. similar distance, but the circle surrounding the kbs was inside and much small than the circle surrounding the s300.

i'm sure it comes down to fitting as dg are popular on tour, but for whatever reason the kbs was much more accurate for me.

[maninbrownrubber]

Figured I would actually close the loop on this...

I wound up re-shafting with DG X100 straight in at around D2 swingweight. Played 18 today and absolutely loved them. So much so that I hit 4 iron off the tee and left the driver in the bag.

For me at least, the DG just work so much better for me than KBS Tour.

Similarly, I switched from everything else, but most recently KBS Tour, in my wedges to DG S400 with great results as well.  

Thanks for all the help on this! I appreciate everybody's input - even if i failed to take it.

[cuts33]

Just had the opposite experience.

Was between the DG X100 and the KBS Tour X-Stiff.

Same weight but the KBS felt a little lighter for some reason and I was consistently about 10-15 yards longer with a 6 iron on the KBS versus the DG without losing any accuracy.

I'd played the DG's before and thought it would be a no brainer but I couldn't ignore the numbers and the feel.

[rwill]

Well, I have an update on my post on here. I gave the kbs a month to try and I'm now absolutely in love with them and will never go back. Great feel, great flight, and tight dispersion. Can't lose.