76 replies to this topic

[MixedBag]

First off, I think Ingles and Scratch make a great pair.  I've admired Jim's work ever since I saw the first shotgun logo.  I've been anticipating Scratch's production putters for a long time, but I guess that is not coming to fruition now.

[Shaank0]

Where was it stated that the production line will not be produced now?

[Golfer_1993]

Shaank0, on 22 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Where was it stated that the production line will not be produced now?

They will be only offering customizable putters, and they will cost 1000$. Not worth it in my opinion.

[OldGolfer87]

I believe Scratch has good clubs but if that is what they are offering as putters representing their company they missed the boat  , i cant say i had seen one that i liked ....

[Tyler08]

Yea $1000 will never happen.

[Aces-6]

RetiredMedic029, on 22 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

I believe Scratch has good clubs but if that is what they are offering as putters representing their company they missed the boat  , i cant say i had seen one that i liked ....

I agree with you. While they are impressive enough they're just not my cup of tea. I think they will have a tough time moving many of these at a $1k price tag. I hope I'm wrong, it would be great if they had so many orders they couldn't keep up.

[fore_life]

RetiredMedic029, on 22 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

I believe Scratch has good clubs but if that is what they are offering as putters representing their company they missed the boat  , i cant say i had seen one that i liked ....

I agree, but I guess they are priced and geared towards their target market, which seems to be those that want something personalized and custom that no one else will have, and those with the means to afford $1000 putters and $2000+ iron sets.

I'm guessing their trial of being in big box stores don't work as well as the hoped, so they said f it, lets go even more boutique?

[Tarkata]

I would be uncomfortable putting with a $1000 putter I'd bought.
Golf is already expensive enough for my satisfaction.

[PaulFitz]

Golfer_1993, on 22 January 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Shaank0, on 22 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Where was it stated that the production line will not be produced now?

They will be only offering customizable putters, and they will cost 1000$. Not worth it in my opinion.

Not when you can get a Byron for half that...

[KDMullins]

I guess maybe, although I don't really get it to be honest.  I think the etching is pretty cool, although I'd never have it on a golf club, and I guess the putters are handmades?  They look pretty rough IMO...I guess I just don't have an appreciation for that kind of thing.  To each his own.

Edited by KDMullins, 22 January 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[OldGolfer87]

KDMullins, on 22 January 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

I guess maybe, although I don't really get it to be honest.  I think the etching is pretty cool, although I'd never have it on a golf club, and I guess the putters are handmades?  They look pretty rough IMO...I guess I just don't have an appreciation for that kind of thing.  To each his own.

  Since you commented on the etching ... if you a executive and had a office at home or work , one might get a etched putter in a nice case for a wall display , but as a putter to play with everyday , i just don't see the point because even with a cover marks and nicks happen and the nice finish is shot to hell .

[indyvai]

Good for James... I remember threads when he had just started making putters in his dad's shop.  Not sure it's a great investment for scratch since that is a small market they are catering to... but I guess the price point has both parties happy so well done.

[MixedBag]

indyvai, on 22 January 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Good for James... I remember threads when he had just started making putters in his dad's shop.  Not sure it's a great investment for scratch since that is a small market they are catering to... but I guess the price point has both parties happy so well done.

I agree with you.  From everything I've read, James is a great guy, very talented, and deserves all his success.  I only started the thread b/c I am disappointed Scratch doesn't have cheaper OTR options.  I think Scratch could have created an OTR line and still work with James for a higher end option.  So, I don't agree with the posters that don't like James's work.  I actually can see how his putters would land in this price point, just wish Scratch could have created more options.  In the end, I'm not sure this makes financial sense for either party.  I'm guessing the 200-250 putters for 2013 will have the Scratch logo on them?

[rymail00]

I just looked at James's webpage and he makes some nice looking putter

[Abstract]

Lots of options to have other custom putters made (Mills, Byron, C&L).  Not worth it in my opinion.

[moocherpix]

I can't believe that James, or anyone for that matter, joined forces with the Scratch brand for making putters.  After the debacles that have been their ventures into that market, you'd have to be crazy to commit to them.
I think that their irons and their old wedges are some of the best.  Don White is the supreme craftsman and McCoy is one of the best shapers since Don.  That being said, very few of you here ever got the truth about any of the past putter maker dealings and it will probably stay that way, things being like they are.
To me, it was a step down for James, but he will have to learn if it was a good move or not.
Best of luck to James,
Nick

[indyvai]

Abstract, on 22 January 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Lots of options to have other custom putters made (Mills, Byron, C&L).  Not worth it in my opinion.

It's not exactly comparable.  Hand made putters that require extensive hands on "craftsmanship" are very different from high end milled putters.  They are really expensive to make, so they have to have a high price tag to be worth producing.  I think your average hand milled putter would have yo be priced at $600+.  Good work if you can get it... and in that regard James hit the Jackpot.  He can officially focus on doing what he loves and not have to worry about finding his next order.

[moocherpix]

indyvai, on 22 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

It's not exactly comparable.  Hand made putters that require extensive hands on "craftsmanship" are very different from high end milled putters.  They are really expensive to make, so they have to have a high price tag to be worth producing.  I think your average hand milled putter would have yo be priced at $600+.  Good work if you can get it... and in that regard James hit the Jackpot.  He can officially focus on doing what he loves and not have to worry about finding his next order.

Now all he has to worry about is getting paid for the putters, right?
Nick

[Tim Delgado]

moocherpix, on 22 January 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

indyvai, on 22 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

It's not exactly comparable.  Hand made putters that require extensive hands on "craftsmanship" are very different from high end milled putters.  They are really expensive to make, so they have to have a high price tag to be worth producing.  I think your average hand milled putter would have yo be priced at $600+.  Good work if you can get it... and in that regard James hit the Jackpot.  He can officially focus on doing what he loves and not have to worry about finding his next order.

Now all he has to worry about is getting paid for the putters, right?
Nick

Ouch.  lol

I'm  interested to hear the story you must be referring to.

Shoot me a PM if you don't want to post it.

Thanks,
Tim

[Guia]

I guess that Scratch realized that people will pay ridiculous prices for putters worth only $100.  The
name of the game is copy a design invented by Ping put on a fancy head cover and make it expensive, the
more the better.

[Hstead]

I have a set of Scratch blades on order, not custom, but their OTR blades.  I didn't pay over $2000 grand for them as mentioned above as that would be more than I am willing to pay.  I did pay quite a bit though as I had Aerotech Steelfibers, $40 upcharge, in 10 clubs, 3-PW 53 and 58.  It is only slightly higher than I would have paid for TM, TItleists, or another OEM with the same shaft.  

I also just bought a Byron, again not $1000.  For me, that is also out of my price range for a putter.  I do not see me ordering a Scratch putter at $1000.  

I saw where Edel partnered with Faldo to make a new line of irons.  They are customized and go for $2500.  Again, out of my price range.  There is a market evidently for these clubs and putters, but I am not in it I guess.

[KDMullins]

Hstead, on 22 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

I have a set of Scratch blades on order, not custom, but their OTR blades.  I didn't pay over $2000 grand for them as mentioned above as that would be more than I am willing to pay.  I did pay quite a bit though as I had Aerotech Steelfibers, $40 upcharge, in 10 clubs, 3-PW 53 and 58.  It is only slightly higher than I would have paid for TM, TItleists, or another OEM with the same shaft.  

I also just bought a Byron, again not $1000.  For me, that is also out of my price range for a putter.  I do not see me ordering a Scratch putter at $1000.  

I saw where Edel partnered with Faldo to make a new line of irons.  They are customized and go for $2500.  Again, out of my price range.  There is a market evidently for these clubs and putters, but I am not in it I guess.

There's definitely a market for clubs and putters in that price range.  It just depends on whether the product will command that price and how many you need to sell to be profitable.

[golfluvzme]

Guia, on 22 January 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

I guess that Scratch realized that people will pay ridiculous prices for putters worth only $100.  The
name of the game is copy a design invented by Ping put on a fancy head cover and make it expensive, the
more the better.

You are way off-base if you were referring to James' putters at $100.  James is an old school craftsman that loves what he does and puts a ton of his heart into each putter.  The look of some of his designs might not suit every golfer, but that is just personal preference.
I am probably more surprised than most that he partnered up with Scratch.  Their history with putter makers is, in a word, BAD.  I guess time will tell if it works well for James or not.  My hope is that James does well in whatever he does.  We have spoken via the internet many times and from his first entrance into the putter world.  Class act and I just hope that he has the success that his hard work has put in front of him.
Best of luck,
LaMont in AZ

[Tim Delgado]

Any friend of LaMont's, is a friend of mine.  Obviously, this James fellow is a stand-up guy.  I've read some threads about putter makers that are not always this way, so I'll always pull for a guy that treats people right.

I hope things work well for James and Scratch in this effort.  Scratch makes some beautiful irons, and James' work is clearly top-notch.

Seems a bit fancy for irons & putters, but I'm sure there are people that will love these designs.

I agree with others here that have said these seem to be more "wall hangers" than putters to be gamed.  The designs and craftsmanship are neat to look at though.

TD

[kevcarter]

Guia, on 22 January 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

I guess that Scratch realized that people will pay ridiculous prices for putters worth only $100.  The
name of the game is copy a design invented by Ping put on a fancy head cover and make it expensive, the
more the better.

I've heard there are people who will pay a lot more than that for paint splattered on canvas just to hang on a wall. Can you believe it? :-)

[Abstract]

The point is, the scratch putters won't be available thru a local retailer and would have to be custom ordered.  

You're right.  Hand Craftsmanship is different than high end milled putters.  Personally, I could get a handmade Mills putter (touched by David) for $700 and pay half the price of a Scotty Cameron Tour Putter (which he still doesn't touch).

indyvai, on 22 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Abstract, on 22 January 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Lots of options to have other custom putters made (Mills, Byron, C&L).  Not worth it in my opinion.

It's not exactly comparable.  Hand made putters that require extensive hands on "craftsmanship" are very different from high end milled putters.  They are really expensive to make, so they have to have a high price tag to be worth producing.  I think your average hand milled putter would have yo be priced at $600+.  Good work if you can get it... and in that regard James hit the Jackpot.  He can officially focus on doing what he loves and not have to worry about finding his next order.

Edited by Abstract, 23 January 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

As for "common folks" I doubt they'd be buying Scratch putters price at $400 instead of $1,000. Most who could afford to spend 300, 400 or 500 bucks on a putter could afford to spend 1,000 bucks on one instead. At that point it's just down to whining about the price, not what "common folks" can or can not purchase. Common folks buy an off the rack putter at Edwin Watts for well under $100.

From everything I've seen, for selling small run custom "handmade" putters (whether actualy made by a single set of hands or not) it's better to be too high on your pricing than too low. No need to leave money on the table from the guys willing to go a grand a pop. And if you don't sell enough that way there are plenty of ways to quietly backdoor them into the market at half the price.

[MixedBag]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 23 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

As for "common folks" I doubt they'd be buying Scratch putters price at $400 instead of $1,000. Most who could afford to spend 300, 400 or 500 bucks on a putter could afford to spend 1,000 bucks on one instead. At that point it's just down to whining about the price, not what "common folks" can or can not purchase. Common folks buy an off the rack putter at Edwin Watts for well under $100.

From everything I've seen, for selling small run custom "handmade" putters (whether actualy made by a single set of hands or not) it's better to be too high on your pricing than too low. No need to leave money on the table from the guys willing to go a grand a pop. And if you don't sell enough that way there are plenty of ways to quietly backdoor them into the market at half the price.

I was speaking for more of the "common folks" from WRX, lol.   I've paid close to $400 dollars for a few putters, but $1000 is another level (and I had to sell stuff to do that).  Anyways, I'm not complaining about the price of James's work...... I just don't like the fact that Scratch will not have a retail putter (even if it was close to $300-$400).    Scratch/Ingles will have no issues selling the 200-250 putters for 2013 at $1000, just wish there was an option for me.

[avgjoe]

wonder if they will use signature confirmation delivery on those...

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

It's an eternal itch to have one of those "nice" putters. I finally broke down and grabbed a TP Mills (the $300 kind, not the $750 kind) because they make my favorite shape and honestly I can't discern any difference at all for 2x, 3x or even 5x the money. So I'm pretty sure I'll never get rid of it but I'll also never need to buy another "handmade" or whatever. I can grab that one and scratch the itch (get it? "scratch" the itch?) whenever I like.

In the mean while, I absolutely putt as well with a $100 Ping or $40 Yes putter. Which is nice because in some situations I don't really want an expensive putter in the bag. Can you imagine putting a $1,000 putter on the conveyor at the airport and hoping it ends up in Scotland 12 hours later? I'd be peeing in my pants until I claimed it at the other end.

But the fit-and-finish and the workmanship of something up in that $300-and-up range is worth treating yourself to at least once. Even if it doesn't knock five strokes off ones handicap. From that point on, you just gotta hope the one that strikes your fancy doesn't get jacked up into the four-digit pricing stratosphere like the Scratch ones apparently are going to be. But with patience undoubtedly the number can get a little more comfortable on the secondary market down the road.