20 replies to this topic

[alwaysatrueswinger]

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

[dms181]

I play the burner 2.0s which I believe has a PW loft of 45. I find that when hit solid it goes pretty far, but a blade or muscle cavity iron, that have lofts 2-3 degrees weaker, when 'pured'  go just as far if not longer. However that's just my 2 cents.

[displayname]

When I had traditional lofts, I was playing 4-PW with a a 52, 56, 60 set up.  I switched to Ci11's with a 44* PW, 48* GW, and I moved to a 53 58 set up in the wedges.  Basically the number on the bottom of the club has changed, and that's about it.

[johnstitch]

Takes a while dropping down a club. I have R11s and it took me months to ignore the number on the sole and trust myself to hit a club less every time. I still find the welded in face jumpy and they are not as precise as a one piece forging so going back to less GI heads once something new appears this side of The Pond!!

[mhancock]

I tried tm tour irons after my shoulder surgery and as soon as my recovery progressed enough, I went back to my weaker lofter blades and haven't looked back.  I may not have given the newer clubs a chance but I know the distances of my blades and love the feedback.  The number on the club doesn't matter to me.  My Titleist pw is good for 135 and the tm was closer to 150.  I like having closer gaps from 150 and in and prefer not to have a bag full of wedges.  Just my .02c

[alwaysatrueswinger]

Ok, thanks. I think that is what I have problems with. I want to have a 3 or at least a 4 iron in the bag but maybe I just have to accept the things "Thisplayname" is saying, same clubs, different numbers.

On the other hand I can really understand what "DMS 181" is talking about. My current 6 iron is 31* and when I have hit stronger lofted 6 irons there isnt much different on the range. But I think that maybe on the course things will be different.

R11 is not one of my favourites either. I felt that even if the ball went to the middle of the range mostly I had to look up and see the ball to actually believe it. When I hit my razr x forged I know when i hit it that this is going to be a good shot. I am thinking of moving against a little bit more forgiveness, for example on toe hits, but I dont know. Have tried the i20, jpx, and razr x tour, mp59. Since I have been a callaway man for some year I want to hit the new x forged and the new x hot pro before I decide. But I dont like the stronger lofts on the x hot pro, but when I hit them I willl now!

[jeffrey r]

I am playing better golf and scoring lower with my Di11 irons, whether because of, or in spite of, the jacked up lofts.  The Di11 irons are simply a great fit for me, and have added accuracy and consistency over the G15's and AP1's I was playing.  Lofts are irrelevant in that equation.  When you have a synergy with a club, specs don't matter so much.  Like if I hit a 15* 3w better than a 17* 4w despite being theoretically harder to hit, I'll play the 3w.

Practically, with the Di11 46* GW, I have needed to drop a club at the top or bottom of my bag.  I have primarily dropped a wedge, and have gone with a 50-52*/58* setup without much downside.  The 50*/54*/58* setup I had been playing was nice, but more often than not I was hesistating about which of the wedges to play.  Now, I simply have less choices without a negative impact on my game.

And I won't lie, that I do enjoy playing one less club on par 3's and approach shots.  It is what it is.

[alwaysatrueswinger]

mhancock, on 21 January 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I tried tm tour irons after my shoulder surgery and as soon as my recovery progressed enough, I went back to my weaker lofter blades and haven't looked back.  I may not have given the newer clubs a chance but I know the distances of my blades and love the feedback.  The number on the club doesn't matter to me.  My Titleist pw is good for 135 and the tm was closer to 150.  I like having closer gaps from 150 and in and prefer not to have a bag full of wedges.  Just my .02c

Good point! Thats one of the thing I consider. To play good golf you have to know your yardages, and thats easier in my opinion with a forged iron.

[40simguy]

It hasn't mattered much.  I normally play AP2 712s and every once in awhile I put the Cobra AMPs into the bag.  The extra yardage from the hot face and forgiveness advantage more than make up for the small yardage recalculations I need to do to get the right club in my hand.

[GMR2iron]

When I was fitted for, and purchased my MP-69's, I had them bent 2* up (upright swing plane), and 1* strong. Their were two reasons that I, and the fitter, both thought this would be of benefit. First, I was moving to a lighter shaft (PXi), and my launch angle went up a little too much. Second, and more important to me, I wanted to drop a 3 iron and add another wedge. This move tightened up the gap between my 4 iron and hybrid, and let me add the additional wedge. I did notice a 5-7 yard distance gain, but I, and the fitter, both believe this was because of the properly fit and lighter shaft, not the degree stronger loft. I think all the loft change did was bring the LM numbers back in check.

[alwaysatrueswinger]

GMR2iron, on 21 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

When I was fitted for, and purchased my MP-69's, I had them bent 2* up (upright swing plane), and 1* strong. Their were two reasons that I, and the fitter, both thought this would be of benefit. First, I was moving to a lighter shaft (PXi), and my launch angle went up a little too much. Second, and more important to me, I wanted to drop a 3 iron and add another wedge. This move tightened up the gap between my 4 iron and hybrid, and let me add the additional wedge. I did notice a 5-7 yard distance gain, but I, and the fitter, both believe this was because of the properly fit and lighter shaft, not the degree stronger loft. I think all the loft change did was bring the LM numbers back in check.

That was a interesting solution, sounds like you found a got fitter. I am also thinking of moving to a lighter shaft, and most likely will that lead to a higher ballflight..
May I ask what shaft you went with? Are you a swinger or a hitter? I am swinger and are looking towards KBS tour or KBS tour 90, a little firmer butt and softer tip. I have always used DG stiff shafts, but I have been doing some swing changes, and i hit the ball more consistently now but with a lower swing speed, although I havent lost any length. When I really go after a shot the DG is a good shaft, but thats not how I wanna play golf anymore, at least not if I dont have to. :-)

[GMR2iron]

alwaysatrueswinger, on 21 January 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

GMR2iron, on 21 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

When I was fitted for, and purchased my MP-69's, I had them bent 2* up (upright swing plane), and 1* strong. Their were two reasons that I, and the fitter, both thought this would be of benefit. First, I was moving to a lighter shaft (PXi), and my launch angle went up a little too much. Second, and more important to me, I wanted to drop a 3 iron and add another wedge. This move tightened up the gap between my 4 iron and hybrid, and let me add the additional wedge. I did notice a 5-7 yard distance gain, but I, and the fitter, both believe this was because of the properly fit and lighter shaft, not the degree stronger loft. I think all the loft change did was bring the LM numbers back in check.

That was a interesting solution, sounds like you found a got fitter. I am also thinking of moving to a lighter shaft, and most likely will that lead to a higher ballflight..
May I ask what shaft you went with? Are you a swinger or a hitter? I am swinger and are looking towards KBS tour or KBS tour 90, a little firmer butt and softer tip. I have always used DG stiff shafts, but I have been doing some swing changes, and i hit the ball more consistently now but with a lower swing speed, although I havent lost any length. When I really go after a shot the DG is a good shaft, but thats not how I wanna play golf anymore, at least not if I dont have to. :-)

I would say  I have a more upright, sweeping swing. I went  from Project X to PXi.  I was fit for driver first, ended up with a lightweight shaft in it and loved it. Tried the same theory when I was fit for irons, and it didn't work. The KBS 90, GS95, and Nippon 950 were just too light. I "lost" where the clubhead was in the transition, which led to inconsistency coming down. I also had way too much spin and balooning with the ultra-lights. In the end, the PXi gave the best results- a little lighter than previous, but not too light. The feel with the MP-69's is outstanding to boot. If you like the DG's, give the XP's a try. I thought it was an excellent choice as well.

[alwaysatrueswinger]

GMR2iron, on 21 January 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

alwaysatrueswinger, on 21 January 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

GMR2iron, on 21 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

When I was fitted for, and purchased my MP-69's, I had them bent 2* up (upright swing plane), and 1* strong. Their were two reasons that I, and the fitter, both thought this would be of benefit. First, I was moving to a lighter shaft (PXi), and my launch angle went up a little too much. Second, and more important to me, I wanted to drop a 3 iron and add another wedge. This move tightened up the gap between my 4 iron and hybrid, and let me add the additional wedge. I did notice a 5-7 yard distance gain, but I, and the fitter, both believe this was because of the properly fit and lighter shaft, not the degree stronger loft. I think all the loft change did was bring the LM numbers back in check.

That was a interesting solution, sounds like you found a got fitter. I am also thinking of moving to a lighter shaft, and most likely will that lead to a higher ballflight..
May I ask what shaft you went with? Are you a swinger or a hitter? I am swinger and are looking towards KBS tour or KBS tour 90, a little firmer butt and softer tip. I have always used DG stiff shafts, but I have been doing some swing changes, and i hit the ball more consistently now but with a lower swing speed, although I havent lost any length. When I really go after a shot the DG is a good shaft, but thats not how I wanna play golf anymore, at least not if I dont have to. :-)

I would say  I have a more upright, sweeping swing. I went  from Project X to PXi.  I was fit for driver first, ended up with a lightweight shaft in it and loved it. Tried the same theory when I was fit for irons, and it didn't work. The KBS 90, GS95, and Nippon 950 were just too light. I "lost" where the clubhead was in the transition, which led to inconsistency coming down. I also had way too much spin and balooning with the ultra-lights. In the end, the PXi gave the best results- a little lighter than previous, but not too light. The feel with the MP-69's is outstanding to boot. If you like the DG's, give the XP's a try. I thought it was an excellent choice as well.

No, I have noticed that I dont like the DGs anymore since my swing has changed and especially since my transition isnt jerky anymore, I launch it to low and dont get enough spin. I have tried the shafts you mention: KBS tour 90, GS95 and Nippon 950 and the Dynalite gold xp , all in stiff but I get exactly the same sensation as you describe, the clubhead seams to vibrate to much in the transition and even more at impact. Was hitting the Nike vr pro blades a few days ago indoors with a KBS shaft and that was an interesting combo. Blades are wonderful to hit, I can imagine that the mp69 is even softer, but I think I will have to go with a more player iron. I need the confidence. I dont like the Project x flighted though, the feel aint that bad but the ball starts on a good angle but after, say 70 percent of the shot, the ball flatten out to early, guess I dont get enough spin. I have read interesting stuff about the PXi though and definitely want to try it!
:-)

[PingG10guy]

alwaysatrueswinger, on 20 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

I went weaker.  When the path is far enough to the right and you launch the ball better then you need more spin.  My 4 iron has a "5" on the sole and 25* of loft.

[alwaysatrueswinger]

PingG10guy, on 21 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

alwaysatrueswinger, on 20 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

I went weaker.  When the path is far enough to the right and you launch the ball better then you need more spin.  My 4 iron has a "5" on the sole and 25* of loft.

Thats something I am considering. I suspect that a five iron with 24-25* and a little shorter shaft will launch better and fly longer with more stability than a 4 iron with 23-24* and a little longer shaft.. At least for most golfers. I am sure Tom Wishon would agree.

[PingG10guy]

alwaysatrueswinger, on 21 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

PingG10guy, on 21 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

alwaysatrueswinger, on 20 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

I went weaker.  When the path is far enough to the right and you launch the ball better then you need more spin.  My 4 iron has a "5" on the sole and 25* of loft.

Thats something I am considering. I suspect that a five iron with 24-25* and a little shorter shaft will launch better and fly longer with more stability than a 4 iron with 23-24* and a little longer shaft.. At least for most golfers. I am sure Tom Wishon would agree.

Well for me its kind of a gamble.  Its basically building a set of irons around where my golf swing is "going".  When I almost got an ace on a par 3 range findered at 197 and I hit a push draw slightly mishit to 3 feet i knew.  The club was standard 6 iron loft Ping i20 but at Scratch 5 iron length.  For me its all about the path.  Im waiting on a reshaft from Ping so I can hit them shorter lol

[GMR2iron]

PingG10guy, on 21 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

alwaysatrueswinger, on 20 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

I went weaker.  When the path is far enough to the right and you launch the ball better then you need more spin.  My 4 iron has a "5" on the sole and 25* of loft.

What type of iron is that? I'm a little confused, for that to be weaker. My 5 iron is 26*, after being bent a degree stronger. Great swing priciple as well!

[PingG10guy]

GMR2iron, on 21 January 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

PingG10guy, on 21 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

alwaysatrueswinger, on 20 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

I went weaker.  When the path is far enough to the right and you launch the ball better then you need more spin.  My 4 iron has a "5" on the sole and 25* of loft.

What type of iron is that? I'm a little confused, for that to be weaker. My 5 iron is 26*, after being bent a degree stronger. Great swing priciple as well!

Ping i20 with CFS X-stiff.  not to thread jack

5-PW set but at 4-9 iron lengths so I guess it qualifies as a hardstep at D4 swingweight.  8-PW came out 1* stong, but they missed the 5-7 lofts so I had to send them back and decided to go X100

Edited by PingG10guy, 21 January 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Hstead]

I am probably in the minority but I like weaker lofted irons for two reasons.  I do not like large gaps from 150 down, so if I have a very strong PW I have to have three more wedges.  Most importantly, it is my sub-conscience that really has trouble with the strong lofts.  I make a better swing hitting a weaker 7 iron 165-170 vs a jacked up 7 iron flying 180.  My sub-conscience tells me to swing hard to hit that 7 iron 180 and I do not swing as well.  If I am trying to hit a 165 7 iron, then I can comfortably make a smooth swing and hit the ball more solidly.  This probably does not make sense, I just do not feel comfortable trying to hit a PW 150.  Even if I can with the jacked up loft, I would rather my PW go 135.  

SO I have ordered a set of Scratch blades 3-PW with the PW at 48* vs my old set of Titleists that were 4-PW with a 46* PW.  I am going from a 50, 55, 60 wedge setup to a 53, 58 setup.  I have already switched the wedges and really like the 53 58 wedges now.

[GMR2iron]

PingG10guy, on 21 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

GMR2iron, on 21 January 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

PingG10guy, on 21 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

alwaysatrueswinger, on 20 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Every year the lofts on the irons, even better playing irons, are getting stronger lofts. How has that changed your game? Or has it? Have you recomposed your bag to fill in the gaps? How about the launch, has it changed much?

I went weaker.  When the path is far enough to the right and you launch the ball better then you need more spin.  My 4 iron has a "5" on the sole and 25* of loft.

What type of iron is that? I'm a little confused, for that to be weaker. My 5 iron is 26*, after being bent a degree stronger. Great swing priciple as well!

Ping i20 with CFS X-stiff.  not to thread jack

5-PW set but at 4-9 iron lengths so I guess it qualifies as a hardstep at D4 swingweight.  8-PW came out 1* stong, but they missed the 5-7 lofts so I had to send them back and decided to go X100

I understand now. Your club with a 5 on the bottom would be exactly like a Ping i20 4 iron bent 1* weak. Interesting concept.

[Oldplayer]

I moved to 46* pw which I enjoyed because I was back hitting pw the same distance I did 10 years ago. (I am heading towards 60 now.) I then went with 3 wedges gw at 50, sw at 54 and lw at 58. This gave me really nice gaps in the top end of the set.
Now I need plenty of choice at the other end of the bag because at my age when playing long courses like my home club I use quite a few fairway woods. So after driver I had 14 and 18 degree faiways. There was then a big gap to 4 iron (don't use hybrids) so i strengthened the lofts and stretched them out at the bbottom of the iron set. So the lofts from 4-9 iron are 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, and 42. This gave me a good gap between 5 wood and 4 iron and no problem with gaps then through the set. With putter that is 14. So that is how I did it. Good gaps at the bottom of the bag and plenty of choice in the scoring irons.
I quickly adjusted to the length I was hitting my irons, as I said they were similar to what I was doing a decade ago before I got older and slower.

Edited by Oldplayer, 22 January 2013 - 01:53 AM.