138 replies to this topic

[240clutch]

goobers80, on 21 January 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

240clutch, on 21 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

I think it boils down to the thrill and journey of self discovery.

Does the fruit taste better from the store shelf, already picked and processed for you, or does it taste better if you picked it off the tree yourself and then you know exactly which tree it came from?

Now substitute the word knowledge for the word fruit.

Its not that people don't want to see an instructor, its that some people have a higher tolerance for not reaching their journey immediate, and enjoy the little setbacks because part of progess comes from failure and you learn more this way. Some aspire to score well, others just enjoy playing so the latter will likely not ever see an instructor...but the ones that truely need help, will eventually cave in and get an instructor. The time to cave in comes from each persons patience for knowledge and tolerance for failure. Some people give up and just go find instructors, others grind it out and figure it out.

I do nots believe it is like that really.  I always swung by experimentings with feels , and wents to a nots so nice swing coach to sort of put all my puzzle pieces in right fits.  He turned outs to be mechanical and it ruined my confidence and very confused me , but i left and founds a much nicer guy who is a feel coach  and he put all my puzzle pieces in right spots. I have nots seen him in months because i wants to go back after fully giving his feels time to become parts of swings.

Golf is nots exempt from sucky instructors , just because they are PGA certified. And i knows myself and others who are nots , but coulds give better lessons. Much too many throw outs too many things at once , nor properly explain one lesson or even five will nots *cure* swing problems.

I thinks students expect too much too soons  and  instructors are poor at explainings whats it will take.

I thinks some are justs secure in their jobs and go through motions for their monies.  At a course i used to practice a guy was swinging off back foots and the *professional* did nots even address it once , nor helped him try to finish . Lots goes wrong when you do nots let body finish the golf swing. I sees it ats every driving range.

Golfers put in their dues at the range and the course practicing and practicing to figure out the puzzle pieces to command the club path and face consistently. Just like putting together a big puzzle, there is struggle searching, but there is satisfaction from each piece of the puzzle you find that fits together, more satisfaction when learning on your own. Then there comes a point when you just can't find that piece, this is when you cave in and seek out an instructor. And I think the people that are getting better on their own without any lessons are the people that have a habit of working hard to attain something, and don't mind putting in the time to figure it out and ultimately in the long run they will own this knowledge and know which tree the fruit fell from.

Aren't there some PGA pros out their that made it with their own home swings? Bubba, Jim Furyk.

Learning on your own you gain a stronger ownership of the golf swing, mechanical and feel, they know what is most important in the swing to make it work. A good instructor will see the common denominator in their swings and know why it works. Knowledge is hard earned, you put in your dues at the range and course to figure it out, and it's rightful for lessons to be charged because of it.

[russc]

240clutch, on 22 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

goobers80, on 21 January 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

240clutch, on 21 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

I think it boils down to the thrill and journey of self discovery.

Does the fruit taste better from the store shelf, already picked and processed for you, or does it taste better if you picked it off the tree yourself and then you know exactly which tree it came from?

Now substitute the word knowledge for the word fruit.

Its not that people don't want to see an instructor, its that some people have a higher tolerance for not reaching their journey immediate, and enjoy the little setbacks because part of progess comes from failure and you learn more this way. Some aspire to score well, others just enjoy playing so the latter will likely not ever see an instructor...but the ones that truely need help, will eventually cave in and get an instructor. The time to cave in comes from each persons patience for knowledge and tolerance for failure. Some people give up and just go find instructors, others grind it out and figure it out.

I do nots believe it is like that really.  I always swung by experimentings with feels , and wents to a nots so nice swing coach to sort of put all my puzzle pieces in right fits.  He turned outs to be mechanical and it ruined my confidence and very confused me , but i left and founds a much nicer guy who is a feel coach  and he put all my puzzle pieces in right spots. I have nots seen him in months because i wants to go back after fully giving his feels time to become parts of swings.

Golf is nots exempt from sucky instructors , just because they are PGA certified. And i knows myself and others who are nots , but coulds give better lessons. Much too many throw outs too many things at once , nor properly explain one lesson or even five will nots *cure* swing problems.

I thinks students expect too much too soons  and  instructors are poor at explainings whats it will take.

I thinks some are justs secure in their jobs and go through motions for their monies.  At a course i used to practice a guy was swinging off back foots and the *professional* did nots even address it once , nor helped him try to finish . Lots goes wrong when you do nots let body finish the golf swing. I sees it ats every driving range.

Golfers put in their dues at the range and the course practicing and practicing to figure out the puzzle pieces to command the club path and face consistently. Just like putting together a big puzzle, there is struggle searching, but there is satisfaction from each piece of the puzzle you find that fits together, more satisfaction when learning on your own. Then there comes a point when you just can't find that piece, this is when you cave in and seek out an instructor. And I think the people that are getting better on their own without any lessons are the people that have a habit of working hard to attain something, and don't mind putting in the time to figure it out and ultimately in the long run they will own this knowledge and know which tree the fruit fell from.

Aren't there some PGA pros out their that made it with their own home swings? Bubba, Jim Furyk.

Learning on your own you gain a stronger ownership of the golf swing, mechanical and feel, they know what is most important in the swing to make it work. A good instructor will see the common denominator in their swings and know why it works. Knowledge is hard earned, you put in your dues at the range and course to figure it out, and it's rightful for lessons to be charged because of it.

Mr Furyk's father is a golf pro

[goobers80]

240clutch, on 22 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Golfers put in their dues at the range and the course practicing and practicing to figure out the puzzle pieces to command the club path and face consistently. Just like putting together a big puzzle, there is struggle searching, but there is satisfaction from each piece of the puzzle you find that fits together, more satisfaction when learning on your own. Then there comes a point when you just can't find that piece, this is when you cave in and seek out an instructor. And I think the people that are getting better on their own without any lessons are the people that have a habit of working hard to attain something, and don't mind putting in the time to figure it out and ultimately in the long run they will own this knowledge and know which tree the fruit fell from.

Aren't there some PGA pros out their that made it with their own home swings? Bubba, Jim Furyk.

Learning on your own you gain a stronger ownership of the golf swing, mechanical and feel, they know what is most important in the swing to make it work. A good instructor will see the common denominator in their swings and know why it works. Knowledge is hard earned, you put in your dues at the range and course to figure it out, and it's rightful for lessons to be charged because of it.

I personally thinks it is kind of dumb to go through all that if you already have the puzzle pieces , but a little outs of order. The issue woulds be finding right person to fit it all together. I gots lucky and found a guy to go see every now and then to makes sure i am nots doing something stupid to delay my goals. It is all abouts timing for me and a couple feels.

I am plenty satisfied that i do lots of work improving scoring , i cannots always spend time or energy worrying if my pieces are in right spots.

I still woulds recommend seeing a instructor every now and then for a *check up* and taking his feels and working on them yourself until you coulds remember them. A beginner maybe see a little more often to starts , to get a few things to work on. Problems come abouts if peoples see them too oftens and haves too many thoughts at once.

Never hurts to haves somebody else make sure timings or sequences is okay.

[240clutch]

goobers80, on 22 January 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

240clutch, on 22 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Golfers put in their dues at the range and the course practicing and practicing to figure out the puzzle pieces to command the club path and face consistently. Just like putting together a big puzzle, there is struggle searching, but there is satisfaction from each piece of the puzzle you find that fits together, more satisfaction when learning on your own. Then there comes a point when you just can't find that piece, this is when you cave in and seek out an instructor. And I think the people that are getting better on their own without any lessons are the people that have a habit of working hard to attain something, and don't mind putting in the time to figure it out and ultimately in the long run they will own this knowledge and know which tree the fruit fell from.

Aren't there some PGA pros out their that made it with their own home swings? Bubba, Jim Furyk.

Learning on your own you gain a stronger ownership of the golf swing, mechanical and feel, they know what is most important in the swing to make it work. A good instructor will see the common denominator in their swings and know why it works. Knowledge is hard earned, you put in your dues at the range and course to figure it out, and it's rightful for lessons to be charged because of it.

I personally thinks it is kind of dumb to go through all that if you already have the puzzle pieces , but a little outs of order. The issue woulds be finding right person to fit it all together. I gots lucky and found a guy to go see every now and then to makes sure i am nots doing something stupid to delay my goals. It is all abouts timing for me and a couple feels.

I am plenty satisfied that i do lots of work improving scoring , i cannots always spend time or energy worrying if my pieces are in right spots.

I still woulds recommend seeing a instructor every now and then for a *check up* and taking his feels and working on them yourself until you coulds remember them. A beginner maybe see a little more often to starts , to get a few things to work on. Problems come abouts if peoples see them too oftens and haves too many thoughts at once.

Never hurts to haves somebody else make sure timings or sequences is okay.

  I agree it doesn't hurt to have somebody else make sure timing or sequence is okay, two eyes are better than one. But remember the question I'm answering is in regards to why some golfers do not go see an instructor immediately not debating if an instructor is beneficial...that would probably be another thread on its own because I think there is a certain amount of dedication and preperation on the student's part and how they handle the knowledge being given to them when they do see an instructor for it to work. But I digress that would be another topic and thats not the question the Op brought up.

Again I think it comes down to personal self discovery that they value in discovering and attaining it through trial and error is why some golfers don't go immediately to see an instructor. Until the time factor and frustration level reach a certain point for them, and they need to solve the puzzle because they have exerted every possible method they could, then these minded people will go see the instructor. Some people value the journey of learning it on their own, that's why beyond scoring well in golf, golf is not solely a game just for competition, but also a personal challenge.

Edited by 240clutch, 22 January 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Pinsplitter59]

Well,i just can't help myself.
But it looks like its just you and me now Kiwi2,
everyone else is bored  with the topic.
so let me reply to your statements.
BTW, you are very defensive, are you a trainee?

--------
"You are very wrong here.  The trainees are taught how to teach and there is a continuing education program after that."
--------
Even with your long list of gunk they are supposed to do there is no evidence that they are taught to how to teach.
I guess they are taught about the golf swing, the WHAT to do.
I am aware of all those mickey mouse certificates you get from TAFE colleges.
they have very very low standards, they are really just a money making scams for colleges.
let me repeat: teaching is not saying to someone "Do this".
( i am a qualified high school teacher in Victoria).
I bet i could pass any of those "coaching" exams.
that does not make me a golf coach, in my opinion.
You want to ignore actual evidence of results, of which there is very little.
You adopt the failed teacher stance of blaming the student.
I know a bit about the golf swing and we all know what a good swing looks like.
As i said, i have watched many hundreds of people having lessons over the years and i can see clearly that they are not being helped.
Simply because their golf swing is just as bad at the end as it was in the beginning.
And because i see pros telling them to do things that are wrong, or stupid, or just don't work, or are not what the student really needs.
I think you need to really understand this, especially if you are going to be a PGA pro.
Its not about WHAT to do, its about WHY the student can't do it.

--------
"The first year average must be 5.75 over par or better, the second 5 and third 4."
--------
errr if you think that is professional tournament level you are deluded.
that is about 8 shots worse than an ordinary tour pro.
Re handicaps, in Aus now we use the US PGA system, most low handicappers have found their hcp drop 1 or 2 shots.
a 3 hcp to qualify for traineeship is very ordinary, i was there last year.

----
The problem is that some students don't know how to take a lesson and are unteachable.
-----
that is the cop-out from the incompetant teacher.
nearly everyone can be taught when the teacher knows how.

-------
"We were told It takes Tiger over a year to ingrain changes and he is very athletic. So, how hard is it for others? Unfortunately, very."
----------
have you considered that what he is trying to do is wrong, or wrong for him?
With his talent as you say he should be able to make proper changes in weeks not years.

So my dear friend, all i can say is that which i have learned and seen and experienced in the last 30 years.
We will agree to differ,
and golfers will still take lessons and not improve,
club golfers handicaps will stay the same,
pros will keep making money for nothing.

[Hoganstriker]

I have met several graduates of so called golf teaching schools rofl.  He's right they stink.  No clue how to teach. Teaching is not rehashing a set of instructions you were taught.  It requires a much deeper understanding.

That said I agree 90% or more of instructors are a waste of time-when you find one of the few good mentors that you can communicate with to help you in this game its a very special moment.

Also in defense of teachers-most people are poor students.

In defense of students most instructors don't take the time to ask the student to go over what their intent is before the instructor even sees them swing.
IMO thats the first step.  What are you trying to do?  What a great question.

Most people are decent at doing what they try to do but the things they are trying to do are opposite what results in consistent golf.

I will admit I agree with the guy saying most golf instructors suck-they do.

If they didn't you wouldn't even have a chance to afford their services lol.  Also a good instructor imo should be able to take say a 7-20 handicap guy and that guy should be hitting better after 2 hours time if there has been communication taking place.  No communication no instruction.

The best instructor for you might be that scratch handi just down from you on the range in a comfortable environment that you strike up a conversation with.

I don't think poor golfers should be intimidated by the better ones most are quite friendly.  Vice versa most golfers should avoid like the plague anyone offering FREE advice on the range I have seen 'that guy' too and I tell people to tell him to SHOVE IT.  No instruction ideas should ever come forth unless requested its called good etiquette.

[Kiwi2]

Even with your long list of gunk they are supposed to do there is no evidence that they are taught to how to teach.
Gunk? You can't successfully argue against facts. There is plenty of evidence. The course content and assessment prove that. And Level 3 coaching accreditation is a very high standard and not gien out to anyone.

Being a secondary school teacher is irrelevant in this context.
You are correct in saying that "teaching is not saying to someone "Do this""

There is a coaching adage show don't tell. People learn in varying ways, seeing, hearing and feeling. Most teaching professionals know this hence the saying see it, feel it, do it.

You might pass the written exams (I don't know) but would you pass the practical assessments?

i can see clearly that they are not being helped.
Simply because their golf swing is just as bad at the end as it was in the beginning.
How do you know what the pro was working on? Did you just look at the swing or the movement being changed? What about the shots being produced at the start of the lesson compared to the end? How do you know it was just as bad at the end as it was at the beginning? Did you look at the student a couple of weeks after he had hopefully  worked on what he was shown at the lesson? Some changes can't be seen by the naked eye.

You adopt the failed teacher stance of blaming the student.
You misrepresent what I said. The problem is that some students don't know how to take a lesson and are unteachable. Some means some. Not all, not the majority, just what it says it means some.

In some cases a student has physical limitations which prevent certain movements. Many pros recognise this and will look for workarounds. In that case it isn't the students fault. That his body won't allow him to do something.  There  is no such things a perfect swing and if  teacher can introduce a movement (however unorthodox it may be) that helps towards a swing that works he is doing his job. I can just hear the chorus over the bar "He told you to do that?" "He is wrong, he can't teach" LOL.

we all know what a good swing looks like
What does a good golf swing look like?

There is  huge difference between an aesthetically pleasing swing and one that works. What is  a good golf swing? Hogan's? Doyle's? Furyk? Trevino's, Scott's? Lonard's? Appleby's? Parry's? Mahan's, Watson's (Bubba)? Tell me.

They all look very different. We can't see feelings, we can't see pressures. All these swings worked. Therefore to me they are all good.


You want to ignore actual evidence of results, of which there is very little.
In the US context the evidence is not good, but what was the percentage of beginning golfers 30 years ago to total playing and the percentage now (in the US). That would have an effect on average handicap levels. There are other factors that need to be considered as well before concluding (as many have) that because the handicaps have not fallen the teaching must be bad.  What do the Australian statistics show? Are there any? If so how reliable is the data field no matter what the result)?

errr if you think that is professional tournament level you are deluded.
that is about 8 shots worse than an ordinary tour pro

Really? An "ordinary tour pro" by your comment would average 3 under par per round in tournaments then.  That means you are saying that an "ordinary tour pro" would shoot 12 under in a 4 round tournament. They wish.

An average is just that. The 4 over average is a minimum requirement in the traineeship program, not the average score of those passing.

in Aus now we use the US PGA system, most low handicappers have found their hcp drop 1 or 2 shots.

No. The USA PGA system is not used at all. Nothing like it. There is no handicapping system in either the PGA's.

The USGA handicap system was adopted with modifications over a year ago. there are differences and there will be more in the future.

a 3 hcp to qualify for traineeship is very ordinary, i was there last year
I think you are too hard on yourself. a 3 handicap is something most amateurs could only dream of achieving. But it only allows consideration for the program. It doesn't qualify for a traineeship.

With his talent as you say he should be able to make proper changes in weeks not years.
I don't say that at all. I say despite his talent it takes him  a long time to make changes. Habits are hard to change. Some very hard. It takes time for the subconcience to tke the new movement on board. As a teacher you should be aware of the "conscious competence" learning model. Unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, conscious competence, and unconscious competence. Perhaps a major reason people don't use a PGA Pro could be the unconcious incompetence stage. They fail to believe the problem (because the fix may feel uncomfortable to them) and as a result deny the usefulness of what they have been told or shown.

Ask yourself this question? If teaching pros are so useless why do most touring pros use one?

[MetalManic]

Pinsplitter59, on 22 January 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

.. But it looks like its just you and me now Kiwi2, ....  BTW, you are very defensive, are you a trainee?....

At Kiwi2 :  I've just read through your debate with splitter, and I was also wondering what, if any, is your relationship to the Australian PGA training system?  Apologies if I've missed you mentioning it.

BTW splitter, you're not a secondary school English teacher by any chance?  That sonnet style writing looks cool but its bloody hard to read .  Perhaps you could ease up on that hitting 'new line' key each sentence.
(no offence..)

[gvogel]

What is the first thing that a good teacher will work on?  The grip?  99% or Tour Pros have excellent grips.

OK, so you show someone how to hold the club like a Tour pro.  If you watch that person over 15 minutes, you will see that his/her grip will revert to how they were holding the club to begin with.  The "good" grip is uncomfortable for them, doesn't make sense, etc.

In this game, which is very exacting, how can a poor player progress with a bad grip?  Why don't bad players work on their grips?  Because they are looking for swing "secrets."  There are no swing secrets, there are just proper set up fundamentals, and learning to swing by making a pivot.  

There is a lot of poor instruction which tries to fix the swing.  But, it is difficult to fix a swing without fixing the set up.  Who wants to work on their set up?  Not too many players.

So, instructors get a bad rep.  Let's face it, it is a very tough game for many people.  

And working on the set up fundamentals is not sexy.  So, most players just like to go play with what they have.

[SSafran]

I think it's best to learn about the swing by reading books and studying the game and then go for a lesson only to have a pair of eyes that can see what you can't.  If you rely on a coach but don't understand the swing you are wasting your time.  I have many friends who constantly take lessons but don't really understand the swing so it doesn't help them.  They are just wasting their money and looking for a fix.  

I've learned about golf from reading Nicklaus, Hogan, watching videos on youtube, Ralph Mann's book etc. watching tour pros and finally from analyzing my own swing in the mirror and on video (iphone from the range....just hand my phone to the guy next to me and ask him to do me the favor).

Every now and then I'll take a lesson but it's usually pot luck whether it helps.  Much more important to understand the swing so you can teach yourself.

[Parker0065]

Man this game that we love is so F*$&$^#&*$ Hard that it just takes so much time and dedication to really get to where most people want to be. I've always said this but I feel sorry for those that didn't start learning this game at a early age. By no means does it mean that you can't learn it well as an adult but the difference seems to be like night and day.

I started playing when I was 9 and was scratch by 18 all on my own studies of the game. I'm sure with a good instructor I would have gotten there faster. As a father I learned from my mistakes and my son has had PGA Pro instruction since he was 5 and at 15 his swing is miles ahead of where mine was at that age.

If I would have taken up the game as an adult I imagine I would have gotten frustrated and either quit or just accepted that I would never be good at it. Luckily I started young and was willing to spend countless hours(not many video cameras back then) in front of a mirror checking my positions over and over again. How many adults do you know that are married with kids or have other responsibilities that are going to do that.

Bottom line is that most PGA certified pro's ARE decent teachers that have a solid knowledge of the golf swing but you as an adult have to be willing to sacrifice your time and energy to improve. I know a good number of teaching pro's in my area and they have all told me that the absolute most frustrating part of teaching is giving a student an assignment to work on and they just don't put in the practice time to improve!!!!!!!!!

[Pinsplitter59]

Dear Metal Maniac ... oops Manic,
Very long sentences are only for nasty criminals.
When I discovered backslash r and backslash n,
The experience was essentially seminal,
I did it once, did it twice and did it again.
Since finding the secrets of invisibles,
My usage became addictively habitual.
Because I loved them so much,
And the feel and the touch,
My sentences became
shorter and
short
er

-----------------
nope not english...
arty farty stuff, pencils paint wood clay sensually gratifying hand movements of the type the golf swing attempts to emulate keep reading because my return key is complainig i am ignoring it and i have to type this really fast so that my natural impulses are overcome and i don't hit return from the top to fast or i will hook this sentence into obliviuon.
phewwwwww... that was therapy for me, promise i will practice every day.

"So, instructors get a bad rep.  Let's face it, it is a very tough game for many people. " quote gvogel.
yes , yes, yes and yes...... but...
why why why and why????

[goobers80]

Both sides suck big ones , and both sides are good. It is simply matchings good and good. Nots sure why that is so hard to accept.

I finds golf relatively easy compared to my crappy life , so i justs needed swing coach to put together all my right things which easily elimated the *bad* things.  Working on good things automatically fixed any little issues.

[240clutch]

There's a couple scenarios that happen when someone seeks professional help that could explain their good or bad experience. NOT just about golf but really in any professional environment, look at two cases

1. Student comes prepared, motivated, and focused on listening and learning.
2. Student comes with the mindset it's easy, expecting instructor to spoon feed him knowledge

   If you ever had to tutor, train, share knowledge, give lessons in any similar situations you know the feeling, what motivation do you have to really help this person if they themselves show no respect and dedication to the knowledge that you are about to share with them. When a student that really shows interest and demonstrates it through their apparent dedication and hard work, you WANT to teach them with more care and support because in human nature we relate and see ourselves in others... those tough situations struggling to get somewhere and know how important it was that someone helped us out to get where we are... this is where most free lessons come from and how those that haven't seeked a PGA pro have gotten their knowledge to get better. They put in the dedication and through this process they have attracted others like minded and collaborated to get their help one way or the other WITHOUT a proper PGA professional lesson. Being on this golf forum is an example of this. Those that don't have a golf pro instructor and are determined to get better will most likely have friends that are knowledgable to collaborate and work together to figure this out.

   How to get the instructor to help more? show respect and dedication not just a hand out begging for help and maybe you will be blessed with their secrets and not the vanilla grip and setup tips. Not to take away the importance of grip and stance, but you know the drill, this is the basics and they are important too, but if someone was really dedicated and went as far as seeking an instructor, I would think they'd have done their homework and attempted it, or sought out books on the matter and now needing help piecing together the puzzle, how to sequence the movements, feel, validation, etc...because now when they visit an instructor they can maximize their time with them...shruggs, I'm probbaly wrong though, there are many people of the #2 type that just want to be spoon feed and not work for things. It's the instant gratification world that we've grown up in that makes people think things are easy this way. Just because you paid for it, the program better work for you just isn't true with golf. Skill and TALENT in golf cannot be purchased, but has to be practiced and with practice it has to be proper and purposeful practice. Some people don't know how to practice, going to the range and just beating balls with no set agenda is not practicing, its just working out. Go to the range with a purpose to learn to hit the push draw, a pull fade, a low stinger, etc...

[sliceanddice]

I guess it all depends on the target audience. The people on this forum to me don't sound like the average weekend golfer. Some people love the game and others are just out for the social aspect. I don't want to be a professional golfer. I don't scour the internet for articles and videos. I rarely practice, and even then, going to the driving range for me isn't really practice (no goals or items to work on). It's just a place to go to wack some balls. I usually score high 80s to low 90s. My "goal" up until now has been to stay with the pack instead of on the other fairways, even if it is a short cut The problem now is that it seems I have moments of brilliance followed by moments of disaster.

My Dad started taking lessons from an instructor that works out a golf store in the area. I don't think he's PGA rated (I didn't ask or care to be honest) but he is a pro at one of the local courses. I started with the same instructor as well. I can say that price is a consideration for me. I'm currently paying $40/hr. I would never pay $100/hr at my skill level. I equate this to it doesn't make sense for me to pay a professional NHL player to teach me to stand up on skates and hold a stick.

The benefit of the lessons so far for me (only 3 at this point) is to not only have the guidance, but to have a knowledgeable set of eyes that can provide feedback. Some people can watch videos or read books and make adjustments, but that's not me. In my current state I can "feel" when I've done something really wrong but don't have the muscle memory of how it should "feel" when I do it right. We've been on the FlightScope and the instructor seems to be able to interpret the numbers along with what he sees. We've covered grip as well as basic mechanics with some drills added. I'm working on tempo, shoulder rotation and less tension overall. Our goal at this point is to build a consistent swing and let the club do the work. My practice swing looks good but things change once there is a ball in front (mental thing? too much tension? want to kill the ball?). We will be heading to an indoor range next session to take a look at actual ball flight. He's also talked about future sessions of taking notes of distance ranges with each club based on the type of shot and he will take us out on a course when it gets warmer so he can watch our course management. It sounds like he has a plan which is something that I haven't heard from other instructors I've ran into.

To anyone new, or thinking of getting instruction, get it sooner rather than later if you can. It's something that if you start you need to stick with to get the benefits out of. It is quite humbling (and frustrating at times) as I try to get out of bad habits. A good instructor can make all the difference. Alternatively, a bad instructor can leave such a bad taste for lessons all together.

Anyways, sorry for the long first post. I came across this forum looking at reviews for a nice golf toy (Optishot) but realize the money is better spent on more lessons. Sometimes its nice to have the toys though

[sheldonjhacker]

duffer987, on 14 January 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

'Most golfers' do not play 50 - 200 rounds/year like on WRX.
They are happy to go out once a fortnight with their mates, knock a ball around for a morning or afternoon, talk sh1te, have a few beers, and go home.
It's fairly easy in downtime to read an article in GD at the airport, watch a youtube video, etc... and have a bash at seeing if it works.
Nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has a burning desire to break 100/90/80/par and put in the training effort to get there.

Bingo!!!  Who has the time ?  Life and "other activities" get in the way.  I LOVE golf... But I also LOVE family, friends, my work, fitness, skiing, kite-boarding, tennis, fishing, sailing, waterskiing, etc.,etc.,etc.  the problem I have with golf (for me) is how solitary it is to get very good...it's a lonely and one-dimensional pursuit.  Hard to maintain a healthy life balance if I become a golf robot.  Charles Howell III said last week that pro golf living is not much fun at all.

[elvis]

Jacob Mac, on 14 January 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Bad teachers plays a role too.  It is hard finding a good teacher.

So true. You can spend a fortune trying to find somebody who's legit.

[MetalManic]

Pinsplitter59, on 24 January 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Dear Metal Maniac ... oops Manic,
Very long sentences are only for nasty criminals.
When I discovered backslash r and backslash n,
The experience was essentially seminal,
I did it once, did it twice and did it again.
Since finding the secrets of invisibles,
My usage became addictively habitual.
Because I loved them so much,
And the feel and the touch,
My sentences became
shorter and
short
er

-----------------
nope not english...
arty farty stuff, pencils paint wood clay sensually gratifying hand movements of the type the golf swing attempts to emulate keep reading because my return key is complainig i am ignoring it and i have to type this really fast so that my natural impulses are overcome and i don't hit return from the top to fast or i will hook this sentence into obliviuon.
phewwwwww... that was therapy for me, promise i will practice every day.

"So, instructors get a bad rep.  Let's face it, it is a very tough game for many people. " quote gvogel.
yes , yes, yes and yes...... but...
why why why and why????

Yes, a tough game indeed.
Actually, I think the problem is not so much instructors,
Rather more to do with the state of knowledge
On how to teach the golf swing.
But that's another topic.

(mmm, this short sentence stuff is harder than it looks)

Edited by MetalManic, 29 January 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[ChrizZ]

two main reasons IMO:

1. golf instruction is expensive.

2. playing golf is fun, practicing is work (to your average golfer). Most golfers never practice and just play a round with their buddies. Taking lessons means you will have to practice a ton to engrain the changes and the vast majority of people aren´t willing to do that.





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