18 replies to this topic

[Par4-ever]

Long story short... I'll try,

Got fitted into x flex kbs tour about a year ago. Swing speed was high 80's, low 90's with 6iron. My swing since then has probably slowed down. My 6iron I hit about 180-190 with roll. Was at a local golf store a few days back and swung the Adams Idea CMB with the KBS CTaper STIFF flex. On their launch monitor I was hitting about the same distance but it showed my swing speed was only low mid 80's. BUT the shaft felt soooo pure and sweet. Unlike my KBS Tour Xflex, which is basically a piece of rebar, I could actually feel a little load and whip with the CTaper Stiff shaft that I kind of liked... SOOOOOOO What is your advise? Switch to the CTaper Stiff shaft? If I can't really feel the load and whip in the Tour x is that mean its too stiff? Maybe soft step my Tours? Get fitted again? My irons are the Mizuno MP59s. Thanks sorry for the long post.

[DC300]

X flex is too much at that swing speed in the first place.  The only reason for it would be to control flight from the KBS Tour shafts, which IMO are the worst money ever spent on shafts.   The c taper in stiff will flight the ball lower and should still give you more that enough control.  You might even want to try the R+ in the c taper as most people find they play pretty stiff to flex.

Edited by DC300, 09 January 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[Par4-ever]

So what swing speed range for xflex? I hit my irons fine just don't know if you should really be feeling the load and whip in an iron shaft while keeping your control. If they truly are to stiff for me what negative effects should I be seeing?

[NHauss]

you are in the realm of x in my opinion, and with a relatively high launch shaft like the kbs tours it shouldnt be rebar. The ctaper stiffs play easily like the tours in s+, and are much more tip stiff. In any case, the ctapers would not be a bad option if you like the feel.

[Kadin 25]

Have you tried the S+ in the Ctaper? Might be worth a shot. My 6 iron ss is 97mph avg. and I play the ctaper-x. But I could easily play a S+ also.

Edited by Kadin 25, 09 January 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[jmvargas]

the general rule for optimum performance is to use the softest shaft you can control...

if you CAN control the stiffs...go for it!!

[llamont]

What feels "better" in your hands when you're actually over the ball? I'm probably of the fraction of a minority because I believe in playing what feels good to you over playing what you are generically fitted into.

[setter02]

DC300, on 09 January 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

X flex is too much at that swing speed in the first place.  The only reason for it would be to control flight from the KBS Tour shafts, which IMO are the worst money ever spent on shafts.   The c taper in stiff will flight the ball lower and should still give you more that enough control.  You might even want to try the R+ in the c taper as most people find they play pretty stiff to flex.

This is iron SS he's talking about, not driver...  Not even in the same ball park if your just looking at the mph number.

Even tho sim's are getting better for stats, you still need to take them as is.  Its still a simulator.  If there is the opportunity to hit with a launch monitor, try them out, or if there is a demo day coming up you can go there to test out the new product.

[CallawayKid86]

I am currently in the process of switching from x to s+. I noticed with a set of hard stepped 6.0 that my flight looks better and I get much more consistent spin rates with the softer shafts. And best of all you shouldn't be sacrificing any distance since you are actually getting the shafts to load.

[BigHook25]

Kadin 25, on 09 January 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Have you tried the S+ in the Ctaper? Might be worth a shot. My 6 iron ss is 97mph avg. and I play the ctaper-x. But I could easily play a S+ also.

I would second this advice.  See if you can try the S+, or if you feel the S just isn't quite stiff enough.  The X stiff in the c taper almost plays to an extra, extra stiff, where the S+ feels like it plays just below an extra stiff, but a little stronger than a normal stiff shaft.

[Par4-ever]

Kadin 25, on 09 January 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Have you tried the S+ in the Ctaper? Might be worth a shot. My 6 iron ss is 97mph avg. and I play the ctaper-x. But I could easily play a S+ also.

Have not tried the S+ bc as far as I know the golf retailers around me only have demo clubs with the Stiff in it. How do you like the Taper x? I'm assuming you also have a fast hard paced tempo. Can you feel the shaft load and feel the whip at impact with those?

[Par4-ever]

llamont, on 09 January 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

What feels "better" in your hands when you're actually over the ball? I'm probably of the fraction of a minority because I believe in playing what feels good to you over playing what you are generically fitted into.

It's hard to tell right now bc I only hit the CTaper Stiff about 10 times on a mat into a launch monitor. My Tour x's feel fine and my trajectory, flight, spin, etc... is fine. The only thing that has me questioning if I should switch shafts is bc I considerably felt the load/whip in the CTaper Stiffs more then my Tour X's.

[DC300]

Par4-ever, on 09 January 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

So what swing speed range for xflex? I hit my irons fine just don't know if you should really be feeling the load and whip in an iron shaft while keeping your control. If they truly are to stiff for me what negative effects should I be seeing?

I wouldn't fit you in an X flex shaft unless you are in the mid to high 90's with a 6 iron, that means, on the course you are hitting that, not in a sim where the tendency is to over swing to produce big numbers.  In all reality, you probably are closer to the low 80's when making a real shot, but lets say for arguments sake you are not and you really do hit the low 90's.  A shaft that is too stiff will produce shots that are generally shorter than optimum, feel like rebar, and not spin consistently for you.  The reason behind using the softest flex  you can control principal is simple, the more the shaft does for you, the less you have to work to get results.  If you think you should be in the X flex clubs, so be it, but take a look on tour and see how many guys are playing S or S+ out there and I'll guarantee you, their SS is higher than yours, it should lead you in the right direction.  For that matter, if you want to get into rifle specs, look at the guys playing at 6.5 or less on that scale and then look to see where your swing fits on that, the KBS X is above what most pro's play.  

I know the general thought on WRX is that everybody plays an X flex, well its bull honkery.  I would outright bet, there are less than 20% of the people here that play X flex that would actually need an X flex shaft.  I personally swing in the upper 90's with a 6 iron with the swing I play golf with,not swinging hard and could easily play with an S+ in the C-taper.  I have dabbled with the thought of the X, but unless I am swinging for the fences, I certainly don't need it.  I'd bet if you are staying in your shoes, you don't either, you probably will be happiest in an S or maybe an R+ which is a stiff in most shafts.  The C taper has one heck of a stiff tip, you don't need to be in the super stiff flex to control the ball and you can gain distance and consistency with a softer shaft, which allows you to take a normal swing and not force it, generally leading to better results.

That's my 2 cents, do as you like, but do yourself a favor and try some softer shafts and see what comes of it.

[DNice26]

Sorry if I'm thread jacking but I play C-Tapers S+ in my MP68s (1/4" long).  I'm thining of buying the MP64s from Mizzy but they don't have the S+ flex.  What should I do....order X soft stepped or S hard stepped?  What do I need to consider?  I believe my 6 iron SS is about 94mph and my driver SS is in the 110-115 range.

Thanks guys!!!!!

[PutterKilledTheDream]

It really all boils down to performance and confidence. If you prefer the feel of the C-taper S over the Tour X  and your dispersion and consistency back it up, then by all means switch. I'd venture to say, however that the data from the monitor you were fitted on was incorrect unless it was a doppler radar system. Swing speed isn't the only parameter in which to gauge flex-tempo, transition, release are important as well. Tour averages with the 6-iron are low 90's and alot of those guys play some degree of an 'x' flex so if that is a realistic clubhead speed number than it's not out of the realm of reality. I personally average 91-92 mph with the 6 and can fit comfortably into a soft stepped X100, PX 6.0, or C-Taper S+ soft stepped. Gotta find the right balance between feel and performance, just make sure you're not trading one for the other.

[BigHook25]

DNice26, on 16 January 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Sorry if I'm thread jacking but I play C-Tapers S+ in my MP68s (1/4" long).  I'm thining of buying the MP64s from Mizzy but they don't have the S+ flex.  What should I do....order X soft stepped or S hard stepped?  What do I need to consider?  I believe my 6 iron SS is about 94mph and my driver SS is in the 110-115 range.

Thanks guys!!!!!

I just went through this with Mizuno.  They don't carry the C taper S+, so you can only order S or X.  I already had my irons but was considering shipping them back to Mizuno, but my options were soft stepping a X or hard stepping a X.  I was fit by Mizuno for the c taper X, but just found them a little too harsh when I wanted to choke down or swing easier.  But I wanted enough of a shaft when I wanted to hit something hard.  If you have a fairly aggressive transition I would soft step an X, if you a little smoother then I would hard step the S.

If you think the S+ is what you want you can always buy the S+ and have them put in.  It might cost you a little more money than the $20-$25 per club upcharge from Mizuno, but you would get the shaft you really want.  For 8 irons, the c taper S+ cost about $35 a shaft and then it was another $12-$15 to have them installed.  So your looking at close to $40 instead of $20-$25 if you want the S+.  If the extra money isn't that important, I would go with the S+.

[DNice26]

BigHook25, on 16 January 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

DNice26, on 16 January 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Sorry if I'm thread jacking but I play C-Tapers S+ in my MP68s (1/4" long).  I'm thining of buying the MP64s from Mizzy but they don't have the S+ flex.  What should I do....order X soft stepped or S hard stepped?  What do I need to consider?  I believe my 6 iron SS is about 94mph and my driver SS is in the 110-115 range.

Thanks guys!!!!!

I just went through this with Mizuno.  They don't carry the C taper S+, so you can only order S or X.  I already had my irons but was considering shipping them back to Mizuno, but my options were soft stepping a X or hard stepping a X.  I was fit by Mizuno for the c taper X, but just found them a little too harsh when I wanted to choke down or swing easier.  But I wanted enough of a shaft when I wanted to hit something hard.  If you have a fairly aggressive transition I would soft step an X, if you a little smoother then I would hard step the S.

If you think the S+ is what you want you can always buy the S+ and have them put in.  It might cost you a little more money than the $20-$25 per club upcharge from Mizuno, but you would get the shaft you really want.  For 8 irons, the c taper S+ cost about $35 a shaft and then it was another $12-$15 to have them installed.  So your looking at close to $40 instead of $20-$25 if you want the S+.  If the extra money isn't that important, I would go with the S+.

Thanks Big.  Im thinking of going X flex and soft steping 2 times.  According to the shaft chart in our club making forum, this gets me really close to the S+ flex.

[robbie91]

Let me first say that you were probably properly fit in the first place. A 6 iron swing speed around 90 is on the border of stiff and x-stiff flex. If I was fitting you I would look at your swing tempo, attack angle, launch angle, spin rate, and so on to decide which flex was right for you. Assuming you hit a higher launching and somewhat spinny ball with a quicker swing tempo an x-flex would make plenty of sense. However, you should have tried both flexes during your fitting to account for feel.

I have nearly the exact same swing speed as you 88-92 mph and hit my 6 iron around 180-185. I have a quick tempo and put a lot of load onto the shaft and was also fit into x-flex. I played the x flex shafts for years and had no problems, but, like you I decided I liked the feel of stiff iron shafts. I am currently playing stiff flex shafts that are hard stepped and they are working very nicely. I like the feel much better.. especially on partial shots. While my spin rate and launch angle did rise I have found that I have not lost any control.

As far as the simulators swing speed reading.. I have never found a simulator that is anywhere close to correct. You need to get into a proper launch monitor if you want to check you swing speed. It is important to remember that the KBS C-Taper is a low launch and low spin shaft whereas the KBS Tour is a mid launch and mid spin shaft. So, the stiff flex C-Taper is going to feel much stiffer than a KBS Tour Stiff would. Assuming your numbers are good with the C-Taper it would be a good option because it is slightly stiffer to begin with in the stiff flex.

Your best bet is to go for another fitting and take a look at your speeds and try different combos. Mention to the fitter that you want to try the same shaft in different flexes. It sounds like your either going to be in a stiff flex hard stepped or an x-flex soft stepped unless you go to a stiffer profile like the C-Taper. It would be worth trying the S400's if you get a chance. Hope this helps a bit!!

[JasonFL]

For reference. Luke Donald plays S300 @ a SS of 92mph.

Mizunos shaft optimizer suggested soft stepped x100s.

So to join the band waggon id go softer. You'll probably regret you didn't do it sooner.