138 replies to this topic

[Kadin 25]

I have always sat back as an observer to the whole "Love" and "Hate" war, no matter what OEM it was, Nike, Titleist, PIng, Cobra, TaylroMade and so on...

I have recently noticed that I am smack dab in the middle of it...I have always tried to remain neutral for the simple fact that A) you never know who is reading what you post..and B) I would like to further my reputation as being fair and honest.

I have always felt that there was no room for negativity towards another member or OEM regardless of what they post. I feel in my tenor I have done a pretty good job at it. I must have been doing something right because I was selected to represent our community in the RocketBladez Experience.

Since my trip to Naples I have been pretty much called a "Fan Boy" and running to TaylorMades Rescue any time someone posts something negative. Though I have only tried to report and give feedback to the equipment I was exposed to and to any member who posted a question.

So what's the purpose of all this......? I guess I never understood the hate crusade...I get why you don't like a certain OEM and I get why Tmag gets the bulk of it (as you can see in my below post)..but why do you feel the need to constantly post negativity in every thread possible for the real "haters"? We get it, you don't like it, but why do you feel the need to crusade against any OEM that you don't like? Especially for the guys who haven't even touched let alone hit any of the new equipment, for the members who have hit it and don't like it, we as a forum appreciate your feedback. In the grand scheme of things you need people to not like equipment, it balances out the universe. We can't have a forum where every one  agrees and loves the same gear...jeez how boring would that be?  

I view reviews that don't go so well and the product ends up not liked by the testor, like I do a "productive out" in baseball. Ok he didn't like it, but that's good, we need some negative feedback. It makes me have to decide by testing it myself.

It just gets old reading posts from members who feel the need to try and convince everyone that the product is over hyped garbage and a need to convince them not to try it or buy it. I am not saying don't debate it, or post a negative review of it. Just don't be that guy who didn't demo it and feel you have the ins and outs on it, when nothing could be further from the truth. If you want to convince members that the gear is not up to par then post some facts or data that would be more helpful to us than, "Oh man it's just marketing hype".


So this was my post in the "PICS! TaylorMade Releases "RocketBladez" Irons" topic...If you recall it was fairly heated.

So after following this thread for a day, I have finally decided to chime in on this whole love/hate going on.

The guys on here calling everyone haters are correct, BUT....it's not so much the equipment that is hated on. I truly believe that the "hate" is generated by Taylormades marketing. In my eyes, it's no different than when we joke about the HAMMER. Think about it for a second, what do we joke about the most when it comes to it...POW! BOOM! BAM! images of rockets launching and hitting balls over mountains! TaylorMade is not much different, ok settle down for a second before you lose your mind that I just compared Taylormade to the Hammer...

All of TaylorMades marketing is geared towards distance and why not, distance sells.

Rocketballz l17 More Yards
That's Rocketballz
My R11s is Longer than my R11
Freakishly Longer

All of the commercials are not that far off of being the same as the Hammer...How?.. By ridiculous claims. Now I am not saying that their new clubs are not better than their past clubs, what I am saying is...it's a slap in the face when your driver from last year that was pushed very hard is being pitched as obsolete because we added a couple more adjustments. If you don't believe for a second that they had the R11s design and held back on some of the adjustments when they launched the R11 knowing that in a year they are going to release the R11s with the "new added adjustments" then your missing the big picture here. This is why there is so much hate for them. Not that they think the clubs are trash but because they prey on naiveness of some players who fall for that kind of marketing.

Today's GI equipment has made so many advancements in making it as easy as possible to launch a golf ball that if your still struggling to play with GI equipment, trust me...this slot is not going to be the game changer for you. But that's what Taylormade wants you to believe. Maybe they are more forgiving, but that's not how they are marketing them, they are "Freakishly Longer" not "Freakishly Forgiving" that's where the hate comes to play.

If you don't have GI equipment and are in the market for some, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play these. But if your thinking "Oh man I gotta have these because they are going to enable me to hit a 7 iron the same distance as a tour pro" or "This new slot is going to be so much better than my current GI irons" save your money.

And before you call me a hater my all time favorite driver is a TaylorMade R7 TP that is still in the bag and I have owned two sets of TaylorMade Irons Burners and R7's. But I bought them because they felt good and performed for me not because they were "Freakishly Longer".

Bottom line if your going to scream LONGER LONGER LONGER you might as well be screaming BOOM BAM POW! And don't be surpised when a few "haters" give you some ribbing.   

[MadGolfer76]

I lost you at Mizuno driver.

[Kadin 25]

MadGolfer76, on 08 January 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

I lost you at Mizuno driver.

Yea but I got you back with...freakishly longer

[H.A. Kerr]

If you wanted to call spitfisher out, you should have just done so in a PM.


EDIT: Of course, lighthearted taunt, and great post, Kadin. Good food for thought.

Edited by H.A. Kerr, 08 January 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Kadin 25]

H.A. Kerr, on 08 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

If you wanted to call spitfisher out, you should have just done so in a PM.

Who is spitfisher..? And I'm not calling anyone out as you put it. As you said, if I had a problem with a single member I would send them a message. I don't have a problem with anyone.

[teeitlow]

I like your posts and that yonex build was sweet! Dont let it get to you man.
Didn't you take that trip with ceaser palache or something?...That guy was laying out reviews and his experiences like crazy...what WRX is about!! And he took a slamming in a couple of equip threads. You're a solid poster bro, and this is what happens on a golf forum...weak sauce...yup, but hey I still like you...
-D

[ROBOPTI]

Kadin ... Let me tell ya ....

It's not the TaylorMade Marketing
It's not TaylorMade
It's not Oems

Nope  ... Not even close

IT'S FORUM-MENTALITY ....

Start a Ferrari Board .... Lambo guys lite you up
Start a PotAto Board .... Potato guys will lite you up
Start a Evolution Board ... Creation guys will lite you up
Start a Kawasaki Board ... Suzuki guys will come at you like you just kicked their dog

etc etc etc ....

KEYBOARD bravery and hate ... Been there done that on every forum I have ever been on ..

Enough so I can tell ya

WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE HATE !!!!!!!!! ... I don't even see them anymore

I read your threads / I love Ceasar's threads / That guy who started the cool 913 thread ... I read em all ... I personally dont comment on all cuz I dont have an informed opinion. But when an air-head pops up ... Bro - LAUGH at em and let them eat cake !!!!

It will never end .... ever

TMAG marketing seems - to me .... F**KING BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!!

I love it ... I love it all .. ALL the OEM wars ... It's awesome

ALL GOOD Kadin ... Bro ... trust me ... 99.999999999999% of us are readin with enjoyment every damn word you type ... and ignoring every keyboard vigilante post at the same time

[Kadin 25]

teeitlow, on 08 January 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I like your posts and that yonex build was sweet! Dont let it get to you man.
Didn't you take that trip with ceaser palache or something?...That guy was laying out reviews and his experiences like crazy...what WRX is about!! And he took a slamming in a couple of equip threads. You're a solid poster bro, and this is what happens on a golf forum...weak sauce...yup, but hey I still like you...
-D

Lol thanks! No worries nothing bothering me or getting to me. For those that questioned my honesty or integrity I responded to those posts right away. It's just funny to me how anyone could just be negative for the sake of being negative.

[Kadin 25]

ROBOPTI, on 08 January 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Kadin ... Let me tell ya ....

It's not the TaylorMade Marketing
It's not TaylorMade
It's not Oems

Nope  ... Not even close

IT'S FORUM-MENTALITY ....

Start a Ferrari Board .... Lambo guys lite you up
Start a PotAto Board .... Potato guys will lite you up
Start a Evolution Board ... Creation guys will lite you up
Start a Kawasaki Board ... Suzuki guys will come at you like you just kicked their dog

etc etc etc ....

KEYBOARD bravery and hate ... Been there done that on every forum I have ever been on ..

Enough so I can tell ya

WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE HATE !!!!!!!!! ... I don't even see them anymore

I read your threads / I love Ceasar's threads / That guy who started the cool 913 thread ... I read em all ... I personally dont comment on all cuz I dont have an informed opinion. But when an air-head pops up ... Bro - LAUGH at em and let them eat cake !!!!

It will never end .... ever

TMAG marketing seems - to me .... F**KING BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!!

I love it ... I love it all .. ALL the OEM wars ... It's awesome

ALL GOOD Kadin ... Bro ... trust me ... 99.999999999999% of us are readin with enjoyment every damn word you type ... and ignoring every keyboard vigilante post at the same time

Well said!

[Kadin 25]

Thanks for the kind words guys...but my intent is not "oh boo hoo poor Kadin" it was aimed more at "ok hate it and move on already"

[Llortamaisey]

There are a bunch of studies out there that tell us people are only willing to voice their opinion when it's negative. That's why the Internet and talk radio is filled with haters. If your posts are met with love, something isn't right.

The thing that blows me away is the lack of hate for some brands. Take Titleist for example, huge market share but very little hate. It goes against the moral fibers of haterism.

[KYMAR]

The only issue I have with the TM hate is the incessant misquoting of their claims. The most echoed and monotonous of these comedians are also the most ill informed. They quote COMPLETELY INCORRECT things, and 99% of the time, it just goes unchallenged.

So the next time Some Dip.......stick starts in with what he believes is his most clever bashing of TM based on a "driver being 17 yards longer", someone who sees it should point out that person is either intentionally distorting the claims because of their hate, or they are a pure bread Moron.

[Ogre41]

To be honest, TM has been nothing short of excellent in my book. The only club that I have played that I didn't really like was the 07 Burner, and they sent that to me as a warranty replacement for my 425 that I loved. I haven't hit their latest swag, but it's because I am not really looking into new clubs right now. If I was, TM would be on the list for sure. They make quality stuff. There is some honest love or TM for you.

[schuyler]

Llortamaisey, on 08 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

There are a bunch of studies out there that tell us people are only willing to voice their opinion when it's negative. That's why the Internet and talk radio is filled with haters. If your posts are met with love, something isn't right.

The thing that blows me away is the lack of hate for some brands. Take Titleist for example, huge market share but very little hate. It goes against the moral fibers of haterism.

I have wondered the same thing, and I guess the reason Titleist doesn't have many haters is because they don't give you much to hate on. No fads like white or red club heads. No extreme marketing. No rediculous claims of distance. No attacks on other companys. They kinda seem like that shy kid in high school who nobody hates because he just leaves to himself. I am not saying any of the obove (fads, extreme marketing ect.) things are wrong, but they sorta invite hate, and cult followings.However when talking about titleist you are forgetting about Titleist's very own Scotty Cameron... Who seems to generate a "Scotty is better!! No bettinardi is better!! Shut up!! No you shutup!! You are stupid!! Your mom is stupid!!!!" type battle every week on Wrx.

Edited by schuyler, 08 January 2013 - 08:00 PM.

[Sean2]

I get annoyed with people who dump on any OEM and say they make "junk"

All the OEMs make great equipment. They have to or they couldn't stay in business! No OEM makes junk. Period. You don't like the way they market their equipment? Fine. But the equipment they make is very, very good. All the rest is simply a matter of personal preference.

[KYMAR]

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'd say some OEMs make junk. They might be rugged and be a poor design or they might hit the ball well and not be rugged, but there is some junk for sure. I know some guys like a rust wedge for example, but with all the technology available, that Titlest, Cobra, etc have concinved people a wedge with a relatively short lifespan (due to corrosion) is a good thing just blows my mind. Driver that crack and break in half? Junk.

Wow seriously? Raw wedges are sold by OEM's because people buy them, people buy them because they want them. Responding to customer demands equals making Junk? That's nuts.

Also, do you have any idea how narrow the tolerances are and how thin some of the materials in modern drivers are? EVERY single OEM has drivers that crack. Frankly it's amazing to me that these things last as long as they do.

Edited by KYMAR, 08 January 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[teeitlow]

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'd say some OEMs make junk. They might be rugged and be a poor design or they might hit the ball well and not be rugged, but there is some junk for sure. I know some guys like a rust wedge for example, but with all the technology available, that Titlest, Cobra, etc have concinved people a wedge with a relatively short lifespan (due to corrosion) is a good thing just blows my mind. Driver that crack and break in half? Junk.

This is a whole lot of rambling...and doesn't have a damn thing to do with the op...thanks for the WTF moment.
-D

[Kadin 25]

Sean2, on 08 January 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I get annoyed with people who dump on any OEM and say they make "junk"

All the OEMs make great equipment. They have to or they couldn't stay in business! No OEM makes junk. Period. You don't like the way they market their equipment? Fine. But the equipment they make is very, very good. All the rest is simply a matter of personal preference.

Sean were two pees in a pod...this exactly how I feel.

[Kadin 25]

KYMAR, on 08 January 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

The only issue I have with the TM hate is the incessant misquoting of their claims. The most echoed and monotonous of these comedians are also the most ill informed. They quote COMPLETELY INCORRECT things, and 99% of the time, it just goes unchallenged.

So the next time Some Dip.......stick starts in with what he believes is his most clever bashing of TM based on a "driver being 17 yards longer", someone who sees it should point out that person is either intentionally distorting the claims because of their hate, or they are a pure bread Moron.

+1 This too...hate it all you want but at least get the facts straight.

[ABgolfer2]

teeitlow, on 08 January 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'd say some OEMs make junk. They might be rugged and be a poor design or they might hit the ball well and not be rugged, but there is some junk for sure. I know some guys like a rust wedge for example, but with all the technology available, that Titlest, Cobra, etc have concinved people a wedge with a relatively short lifespan (due to corrosion) is a good thing just blows my mind. Driver that crack and break in half? Junk.

This is a whole lot of rambling...and doesn't have a damn thing to do with the op...thanks for the WTF moment.
-D

I replied to a post without quoting which was one of the only two I read (used the thread preview feature which showed a snippet fo the first post and the last post - it seemed in context when I posted nice "feature"). I deleted the post, but I stand by the comment.

I took issue with "No OEM makes junk. Period." A driver that cracks is junk and a wedge that rusts as soon as you buy it is junk. That people love them and buy them says more about the purchasers than the equipment.

Edited by ABgolfer2, 08 January 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[J.W.]

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

teeitlow, on 08 January 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'd say some OEMs make junk. They might be rugged and be a poor design or they might hit the ball well and not be rugged, but there is some junk for sure. I know some guys like a rust wedge for example, but with all the technology available, that Titlest, Cobra, etc have concinved people a wedge with a relatively short lifespan (due to corrosion) is a good thing just blows my mind. Driver that crack and break in half? Junk.

This is a whole lot of rambling...and doesn't have a damn thing to do with the op...thanks for the WTF moment.
-D

I replied to a post without quoting which was one of the only two I read (used the thread preview feature which showed a snippet fo the first post and the last post - it seemed in context when I posted nice "feature"). I deleted the post, but I stand by the comment.

I took issue with "No OEM makes junk. Period." A driver that cracks is junk and a wedge that rusts as soon as you buy it is junk. That people love them and buy them says more about the purchasers than the equipment.

A wedge that rusts is not junk, it still performs exactly the same without the rust.  Its not my cup of tea but its certainly not junk either.

[Llortamaisey]

schuyler, on 08 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

However when talking about titleist you are forgetting about Titleist's very own Scotty Cameron... Who seems to generate a "Scotty is better!! No bettinardi is better!! Shut up!! No you shutup!! You are stupid!! Your mom is stupid!!!!" type battle every week on Wrx.

You know, I actually thought about that before I posted. It just feels like Scotty is a brand by itself. A lot of the things that people hate about Scotty's have more to do with Don and less to do with Titleist.

[Arafel]

Llortamaisey, on 08 January 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

schuyler, on 08 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

However when talking about titleist you are forgetting about Titleist's very own Scotty Cameron... Who seems to generate a "Scotty is better!! No bettinardi is better!! Shut up!! No you shutup!! You are stupid!! Your mom is stupid!!!!" type battle every week on Wrx.

You know, I actually thought about that before I posted. It just feels like Scotty is a brand by itself. A lot of the things that people hate about Scotty's have more to do with Don and less to do with Titleist.

Uh Oh!  You said "Don" instead of "Scotty".  This thread has got all the hate now!

[schuyler]

Llortamaisey, on 08 January 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

schuyler, on 08 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

However when talking about titleist you are forgetting about Titleist's very own Scotty Cameron... Who seems to generate a "Scotty is better!! No bettinardi is better!! Shut up!! No you shutup!! You are stupid!! Your mom is stupid!!!!" type battle every week on Wrx.

You know, I actually thought about that before I posted. It just feels like Scotty is a brand by itself. A lot of the things that people hate about Scotty's have more to do with Don and less to do with Titleist.

I completely agree. If you look at any of his putters, especially the ones that have come out since the studio select, they say Scotty Cameron a whole lot more then they say titleist. It seems like everything is about him now instead of titleist. In my opinion it has gotten to the point of where he has become very Aarogant and egotistical. I mean come on, being able to see "Scotty Cameron" from address on the studio select laguna, selling $75 pictures of himself, and a slideshow showing him using a wrench that says "The Masters Touch" seems a bit extreme. But, I should be the last one to talk, having owned 5 Scottys in the last 3 years lol.

Edited by schuyler, 08 January 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[ABgolfer2]

J.W., on 08 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

teeitlow, on 08 January 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

ABgolfer2, on 08 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'd say some OEMs make junk. They might be rugged and be a poor design or they might hit the ball well and not be rugged, but there is some junk for sure. I know some guys like a rust wedge for example, but with all the technology available, that Titlest, Cobra, etc have concinved people a wedge with a relatively short lifespan (due to corrosion) is a good thing just blows my mind. Driver that crack and break in half? Junk.

This is a whole lot of rambling...and doesn't have a damn thing to do with the op...thanks for the WTF moment.
-D

I replied to a post without quoting which was one of the only two I read (used the thread preview feature which showed a snippet fo the first post and the last post - it seemed in context when I posted nice "feature"). I deleted the post, but I stand by the comment.

I took issue with "No OEM makes junk. Period." A driver that cracks is junk and a wedge that rusts as soon as you buy it is junk. That people love them and buy them says more about the purchasers than the equipment.

A wedge that rusts is not junk, it still performs exactly the same without the rust.  Its not my cup of tea but its certainly not junk either.

They are if you bought a couple thinking "oil can" was another name for BeCu or Bronze or whatever my old SW was in the 80s. Those things were done in two years and I'm not one to swap out wedges when the grooves show some wear. My old Mizuno Pro wedges are still in use after over 18 seasons. Anyway, I didn't mean to dis my fellow consumers. I meant that if I had certain expectations from a product and it let me down, then in that case that piece of equipment was junk. There seems to be a general consensus that every OEM is capable of letting people down in that way but it's okay because they're doing their best. That doesn't work for me, but maybe that's why I stick with things that work (maybe too long in some cases)..

[deck]

The ones that benefit most from the next biggest thing coming out from every company is us the consumer. The companies are all pushing themselves and their engineers to take what the USGA gives them as limits and see what they can do within them or around them. I think it's great. We benefit. New technology or new designs make the club perform in ways it never did before.

Great post kadin.

TMAG gets the hate because they are the loudest doing it by far. It's working for them and let's not forget OEM's are in the business to make money. Their marketing might not appeal to all, but based on sales it is to the majority.

Edited by deck, 08 January 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[502 to Right]

Honest question:  Would you rather have unstoppable distance or insane distance?  I'm thinking insane distance.  How practical is unstoppable distance? You need to stop the ball on the green at some point so you can putt it in the hole.  So insane distance distance it is.  Although insane distance seems a little unpredictable.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='ABgolfer2' timestamp='1357695951' post='6193999']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1357694321' post='6193793']
[quote name='ABgolfer2' timestamp='1357694142' post='6193777']
[quote name='teeitlow' timestamp='1357693633' post='6193721']
[quote name='ABgolfer2' timestamp='1357693250' post='6193689']
I'd say some OEMs make junk. They might be rugged and be a poor design or they might hit the ball well and not be rugged, but there is some junk for sure. I know some guys like a rust wedge for example, but with all the technology available, that Titlest, Cobra, etc have concinved people a wedge with a relatively short lifespan (due to corrosion) is a good thing just blows my mind. Driver that crack and break in half? Junk.
[/quote]
This is a whole lot of rambling...and doesn't have a damn thing to do with the op...thanks for the WTF moment.
-D
[/quote]

I replied to a post without quoting which was one of the only two I read (used the thread preview feature which showed a snippet fo the first post and the last post - it seemed in context when I posted nice "feature"). I deleted the post, but I stand by the comment.

I took issue with "No OEM makes junk. Period." A driver that cracks is junk and a wedge that rusts as soon as you buy it is junk. That people love them and buy them says more about the purchasers than the equipment.
[/quote]

A wedge that rusts is not junk, it still performs exactly the same without the rust.  Its not my cup of tea but its certainly not junk either.
[/quote]

They are if you bought a couple thinking "oil can" was another name for BeCu or Bronze or whatever my old SW was in the 80s. Those things were done in two years and I'm not one to swap out wedges when the grooves show some wear. My old Mizuno Pro wedges are still in use after over 18 seasons. Anyway, I didn't mean to dis my fellow consumers. I meant that if I had certain expectations from a product and it let me down, then in that case that piece of equipment was junk. There seems to be a general consensus that every OEM is capable of letting people down in that way but it's okay because they're doing their best. That doesn't work for me, but maybe that's why I stick with things that work (maybe too long in some cases)..
[/quote]

I don't even know where to start. You thought "oil can" meant BeCu or Bronze or "whatever" but the only stupid people in this tale are the ones who buy them intentionally? That's outstanding.

[Kadin 25]

502 to Right, on 08 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Honest question:  Would you rather have unstoppable distance or insane distance?  I'm thinking insane distance.  How practical is unstoppable distance? You need to stop the ball on the green at some point so you can putt it in the hole.  So insane distance distance it is.  Although insane distance seems a little unpredictable.

You just gave me a headache

[502 to Right]

Kadin 25, on 08 January 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

502 to Right, on 08 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Honest question:  Would you rather have unstoppable distance or insane distance?  I'm thinking insane distance.  How practical is unstoppable distance? You need to stop the ball on the green at some point so you can putt it in the hole.  So insane distance distance it is.  Although insane distance seems a little unpredictable.

You just gave me a headache

I blame TaylorMade's marketing machine.