40 replies to this topic

[ProBowler]

Should he have been taken out or left in ....... When and why ????
Lets hear it ......

Edited by ProBowler, 09 January 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[SilverBullets]

He clearly should have been taken out.. .hindsight is 20/20 though.. I wouldn't be surprised if it was torn/partially torn or whatever they are calling it prior to that final play that knocked him out... I mean his knee straight bent sideways.  It should have been the doctor's call, thats why they are on the sidelines after all.

[Titleist 4 me]

I'm sure there's enough of that talk on Redskin discussion boards. Why is it of interest here?   Coaches make decsions, players play, monday morning QB's always have the answers.

[ProBowler]

Titleist 4 me, on 08 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm sure there's enough of that talk on Redskin discussion boards. Why is it of interest here?   Coaches make decsions, players play, monday morning QB's always have the answers.

19th hole ..... non golf topics

[baseballfrk8998]

When he was limping when scrambling outside of the pocket, that should have been a clue.

I'm not a fan of Shanahan at all. This guy has done nothing in his coaching career to make him elite outside of the years with Terrell Davis and John Elway.

He's 102-90 (only 12 games above .500) in 12 seasons since Elway retired not including this season with Washington. In those years he was 1-4 in the playoffs.

To put it in perspective, Wade Phillips is 82-61 (21 games above .500) in 10 1/2 seasons as a head coach with the same amount of playoff wins.

I blame Shanahan. I'm just not a fan of the guy.

Edited by baseballfrk8998, 08 January 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[bubbagump]

Skins fans are ridiculous....Against Dallas RG3 essentially looked the same, but he was "heroic" and "courageous" for sticking it out...they go out and get dominated by the Hawks and he shreds his knee and they come calling for Shannys head..  It was a lose lose for Shanahan.  I don't think hes all that great a coach, but if he makes it through unhurt and they win or lose RG3 is still "heroic" and its not a big deal...Now that he got hurt, its stupid and dumb and risky......Lessons to go around for everybody..RG3 to not be a moron, Shanny to not listen to a 22 year old..and Snyder needs to shell some cash for new turf.

[JBurns]

RGIII's tweet about the injury says it all, a doctor could of never known what the extent of the injury was then without an MRI so if RGIII says hes good to go then Shannahan wants to put his best player in so he did. On the flip side for RGIII being a competitive athlete means you wont give up and im sure everyone whos played a sport has played injured even when they maybe shouldnt of been playing, thats just the nature of playing competitive sports.

[baseballfrk8998]

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Skins fans are ridiculous....Against Dallas RG3 essentially looked the same, but he was "heroic" and "courageous" for sticking it out...they go out and get dominated by the Hawks and he shreds his knee and they come calling for Shannys head..  It was a lose lose for Shanahan.  I don't think hes all that great a coach, but if he makes it through unhurt and they win or lose RG3 is still "heroic" and its not a big deal...Now that he got hurt, its stupid and dumb and risky......Lessons to go around for everybody..RG3 to not be a moron, Shanny to not listen to a 22 year old..and Snyder needs to shell some cash for new turf.

I would agree had RGIII not gimped around for 2.5 quarters before finally doing more damage to the knew. He was completely ineffective after he hurt it just before the TD on the 2nd drive. When he's not throwing the ball well and he's limping around the corner on a read, you gotta get the guy out. It's on Shanahan. I just hope it's not too bad.

[bubbagump]

baseballfrk8998, on 08 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Skins fans are ridiculous....Against Dallas RG3 essentially looked the same, but he was "heroic" and "courageous" for sticking it out...they go out and get dominated by the Hawks and he shreds his knee and they come calling for Shannys head..  It was a lose lose for Shanahan.  I don't think hes all that great a coach, but if he makes it through unhurt and they win or lose RG3 is still "heroic" and its not a big deal...Now that he got hurt, its stupid and dumb and risky......Lessons to go around for everybody..RG3 to not be a moron, Shanny to not listen to a 22 year old..and Snyder needs to shell some cash for new turf.

I would agree had RGIII not gimped around for 2.5 quarters before finally doing more damage to the knew. He was completely ineffective after he hurt it just before the TD on the 2nd drive. When he's not throwing the ball well and he's limping around the corner on a read, you gotta get the guy out. It's on Shanahan. I just hope it's not too bad.

Makes sense....he limped all the Dallas game and then from the start of the Seattle game it was no different.  Maybe would have been best to pull a Nationals move and shutdown their franchise player.....

How bad and weak was his knee if it just did that when he was bending over to pick up a ball?  You would think a brace is supposed to prevent your leg from bending like that lol

Edited by bubbagump, 08 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[ProBowler]

Well it sounds like he's done for the entire 2013 season.
Shanahan should have pulled him after two straight 3 and outs which he could barely move and walk !!!
Dr Andrews spoke up about it and I think they hid that his knee was much worse then everyone was lead to believe !!!
I'm a Giants fan but I like watching this kid ........ Oh well ........ See you in 2014 RG3 !!!

[RookieBlue7]

RG3 won't miss week 1. AP had a worse knee injury and came back and did what less than a year later? RG3 will be back, and sooner rather than later. He also earned a ton of respect in that lockerroom, where conversely Christian Ponder lost a lot. If Thomas Davis can come bak off of 3 completely wiped outknees, RG3 can come back off of an LCL tear quickly. He may not miss training camp. He'll be fine. Also, Dr. Andrews hid nothing and neither did Shanahan. Check the facts. They're available. Profootballtalk has interviews with both on there. Modern medicine is awesome.

http://profootballta...-acl-lcl-tears/

Interviews are in several other articles on there

Edited by RookieBlue7, 09 January 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[alsponge]

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Makes sense....he limped all the Dallas game and then from the start of the Seattle game it was no different.  Maybe would have been best to pull a Nationals move and shutdown their franchise player.....

How bad and weak was his knee if it just did that when he was bending over to pick up a ball?  You would think a brace is supposed to prevent your leg from bending like that lol

Knee braces like the one he was wearing are more geared towards preventing MCL injuries. A knee will twist regardless of a brace which is why he injured his LCL. While brace manufacturers say the braces are designed for acl, etc. there is proof to show that a brace will actually help with acl injuries which is why some doctors recommend them for sports and others don't.

Edited by alsponge, 09 January 2013 - 03:18 AM.

[Pudgelewis]

Titleist 4 me, on 08 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm sure there's enough of that talk on Redskin discussion boards. Why is it of interest here?  Coaches make decsions, players play, monday morning QB's always have the answers.

Why is it NOT of interest here?

Hope he isn't in fact out all the '13 season.  I only caught the 2nd half of the game and I was wondering why he was still in there.  Especially if he hadn't been very effective throughout the game.  Not like their backup QB is absolutely terrible, is he?

Edited by Pudgelewis, 09 January 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[bubbagump]

RookieBlue7, on 09 January 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

RG3 won't miss week 1. AP had a worse knee injury and came back and did what less than a year later? RG3 will be back, and sooner rather than later. He also earned a ton of respect in that lockerroom, where conversely Christian Ponder lost a lot. If Thomas Davis can come bak off of 3 completely wiped outknees, RG3 can come back off of an LCL tear quickly. He may not miss training camp. He'll be fine. Also, Dr. Andrews hid nothing and neither did Shanahan. Check the facts. They're available. Profootballtalk has interviews with both on there. Modern medicine is awesome.

http://profootballta...-acl-lcl-tears/

Interviews are in several other articles on there

Link, or is that just your opinion?  Ponder said that he couldn't move his arm, and would have held the team back if he went out there (like RG3 did)....IF a guy cant do what hes supposed to, why would he go out there?  AP was about the only person in history to come back as fast as he did.. Along with the LCL tear they are also assuming that he has at least a partial tear of the ACL as well.  They will find out during surgery.

[AirmanSmith]

Titleist 4 me, on 08 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm sure there's enough of that talk on Redskin discussion boards. Why is it of interest here?   Coaches make decsions, players play, monday morning QB's always have the answers.

off topic board don't be a ****

[Titleist 4 me]

AirmanSmith, on 09 January 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Titleist 4 me, on 08 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm sure there's enough of that talk on Redskin discussion boards. Why is it of interest here?   Coaches make decsions, players play, monday morning QB's always have the answers.

off topic board don't be a ****

Wasn't trying to be a a----   I realize it's an off topic board, just thought it would be more of interest on a Redskins board, that's all.

Also whoever wrote the headline, I'm guessing the OP.  You may want to fact check. All indications are he will healthy enough for at least some of if not all of training camp.

[RookieBlue7]

bubbagump, on 09 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

RookieBlue7, on 09 January 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

RG3 won't miss week 1. AP had a worse knee injury and came back and did what less than a year later? RG3 will be back, and sooner rather than later. He also earned a ton of respect in that lockerroom, where conversely Christian Ponder lost a lot. If Thomas Davis can come bak off of 3 completely wiped outknees, RG3 can come back off of an LCL tear quickly. He may not miss training camp. He'll be fine. Also, Dr. Andrews hid nothing and neither did Shanahan. Check the facts. They're available. Profootballtalk has interviews with both on there. Modern medicine is awesome.

http://profootballta...-acl-lcl-tears/

Interviews are in several other articles on there

Link, or is that just your opinion?  Ponder said that he couldn't move his arm, and would have held the team back if he went out there (like RG3 did)....IF a guy cant do what hes supposed to, why would he go out there?  AP was about the only person in history to come back as fast as he did.. Along with the LCL tear they are also assuming that he has at least a partial tear of the ACL as well.  They will find out during surgery.

The Ponder part is an opinion, formed from my experiences as well as conversations with professional athletes I know.

And no, AP isn't the only one to come back that fast. Matt Forte did last year as well. Thomas Davis did off his 3rd knee surgery. T.O came back from his ankle quick. Etc, etc, etc. modern medicine is far more advanced than it used to be.

[bubbagump]

RookieBlue7, on 09 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

bubbagump, on 09 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

RookieBlue7, on 09 January 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

RG3 won't miss week 1. AP had a worse knee injury and came back and did what less than a year later? RG3 will be back, and sooner rather than later. He also earned a ton of respect in that lockerroom, where conversely Christian Ponder lost a lot. If Thomas Davis can come bak off of 3 completely wiped outknees, RG3 can come back off of an LCL tear quickly. He may not miss training camp. He'll be fine. Also, Dr. Andrews hid nothing and neither did Shanahan. Check the facts. They're available. Profootballtalk has interviews with both on there. Modern medicine is awesome.

http://profootballta...-acl-lcl-tears/

Interviews are in several other articles on there

Link, or is that just your opinion?  Ponder said that he couldn't move his arm, and would have held the team back if he went out there (like RG3 did)....IF a guy cant do what hes supposed to, why would he go out there?  AP was about the only person in history to come back as fast as he did.. Along with the LCL tear they are also assuming that he has at least a partial tear of the ACL as well.  They will find out during surgery.

The Ponder part is an opinion, formed from my experiences as well as conversations with professional athletes I know.

And no, AP isn't the only one to come back that fast. Matt Forte did last year as well. Thomas Davis did off his 3rd knee surgery. T.O came back from his ankle quick. Etc, etc, etc. modern medicine is far more advanced than it used to be.

I figured...Id would think having your starter "tough" it out and limit my offense because hes hurt would have more negative effects than letting a healthy backup go. or could lead to him furthering injure himself..but thats just me.  We just saw how your preferred situation played out with RG3.

I get injury recovery time is much faster than it used to be, but as far as multiple torn ligaments in the knee AP is the only real one that I recall came back that fast and dominated.....I just think its pushing it a bit to rush back your franchise guy.

Edited by bubbagump, 09 January 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Shrapnac]

6-8 month recovery they're saying. I'd expect him to be playing by October at the latest.

He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to slack in his rehab, and it doesn't hurt that the guy who is regarded as one of, if not the best, in the world is his doctor.

[baseballfrk8998]

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

baseballfrk8998, on 08 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Skins fans are ridiculous....Against Dallas RG3 essentially looked the same, but he was "heroic" and "courageous" for sticking it out...they go out and get dominated by the Hawks and he shreds his knee and they come calling for Shannys head..  It was a lose lose for Shanahan.  I don't think hes all that great a coach, but if he makes it through unhurt and they win or lose RG3 is still "heroic" and its not a big deal...Now that he got hurt, its stupid and dumb and risky......Lessons to go around for everybody..RG3 to not be a moron, Shanny to not listen to a 22 year old..and Snyder needs to shell some cash for new turf.

I would agree had RGIII not gimped around for 2.5 quarters before finally doing more damage to the knew. He was completely ineffective after he hurt it just before the TD on the 2nd drive. When he's not throwing the ball well and he's limping around the corner on a read, you gotta get the guy out. It's on Shanahan. I just hope it's not too bad.

Makes sense....he limped all the Dallas game and then from the start of the Seattle game it was no different.  Maybe would have been best to pull a Nationals move and shutdown their franchise player.....

How bad and weak was his knee if it just did that when he was bending over to pick up a ball?  You would think a brace is supposed to prevent your leg from bending like that lol

His limp in the Dallas game and the 1st 2 drives of the Seattle game was not nearly as bad as it was after he hurt his knee just before that 2nd TD. Anyone that watched these 2 games would be able to see that. When he went around the right side just before that 2nd TD he tweaked it and he was terribly ineffective going forward. Everyone in the stadium, including the announcers, saw it. After the next 3 drives when Washington was terrible on offense and RGIII had a huge limp going on, Shanahan should have taken him out. Call me monday morning QB if you will, but everyone in the country knew he should have been taken out.

The comparison to Strasburg is a very flawed analogy. The Nationals shut down Strasburg just before the playoffs when he was perfectly healthy in fear of preventing future injury. This was a very debatable move. The Redskins should have shut down RGIII on Sunday because he wasn't healthy at all and everyone in the country could see it. There was no question he shouldn't have been playing after those 1st few drives.

Edited by baseballfrk8998, 09 January 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[bubbagump]

baseballfrk8998, on 09 January 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

baseballfrk8998, on 08 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

bubbagump, on 08 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Skins fans are ridiculous....Against Dallas RG3 essentially looked the same, but he was "heroic" and "courageous" for sticking it out...they go out and get dominated by the Hawks and he shreds his knee and they come calling for Shannys head..  It was a lose lose for Shanahan.  I don't think hes all that great a coach, but if he makes it through unhurt and they win or lose RG3 is still "heroic" and its not a big deal...Now that he got hurt, its stupid and dumb and risky......Lessons to go around for everybody..RG3 to not be a moron, Shanny to not listen to a 22 year old..and Snyder needs to shell some cash for new turf.

I would agree had RGIII not gimped around for 2.5 quarters before finally doing more damage to the knew. He was completely ineffective after he hurt it just before the TD on the 2nd drive. When he's not throwing the ball well and he's limping around the corner on a read, you gotta get the guy out. It's on Shanahan. I just hope it's not too bad.

Makes sense....he limped all the Dallas game and then from the start of the Seattle game it was no different.  Maybe would have been best to pull a Nationals move and shutdown their franchise player.....

How bad and weak was his knee if it just did that when he was bending over to pick up a ball?  You would think a brace is supposed to prevent your leg from bending like that lol

His limp in the Dallas game and the 1st 2 drives of the Seattle game was not nearly as bad as it was after he hurt his knee just before that 2nd TD. Anyone that watched these 2 games would be able to see that. When he went around the right side just before that 2nd TD he tweaked it and he was terribly ineffective going forward. Everyone in the stadium, including the announcers, saw it. After the next 3 drives when Washington was terrible on offense and RGIII had a huge limp going on, Shanahan should have taken him out. Call me monday morning QB if you will, but everyone in the country knew he should have been taken out.

The comparison to Strasburg is a very flawed analogy. The Nationals shut down Strasburg just before the playoffs when he was perfectly healthy in fear of preventing future injury. This was a very debatable move. The Redskins should have shut down RGIII on Sunday because he wasn't healthy at all and everyone in the country could see it. There was no question he shouldn't have been playing after those 1st few drives.

The Strasburg thing wasnt meant to actually be serious...

My comparison with the Dallas game was more toward the fans and how they are turning on Shanny.  The same could have happened in that game, and it was clear he was still hurt and limited..  Seattle it just got worse and ultimately ended up tearing his knee all up.  Skins fans have never been ones to not be delusional but you cant really have it both ways.  Well see if everybody involved learned....

How nice it must be to be Dr Andrews....dude probably prints his own money at this point.

Edited by bubbagump, 09 January 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[baseballfrk8998]

bubbagump, on 09 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

The Strasburg thing wasnt meant to actually be serious...

Haha.. Touche.

[ProBowler]

I talked to one of Dr Andrew's former partners who is an orthopedic surgeon here in DC who saw the MRI yesterday and he said that the difference with RG3's injury is that one of the screws from his previous repair was loosened and compromised the bone where the ACL attaches  ...... Also they will be using a cadaver tendon graph for this operation so he will be out for at least possibly 9 months but more like 12.
This is much different then AP's or Forte's injuries.

[ProBowler]

[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1357748392' post='6197057']
[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1357747593' post='6196969']
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Skins fans are ridiculous....Against Dallas RG3 essentially looked the same, but he was "heroic" and "courageous" for sticking it out...they go out and get dominated by the Hawks and he shreds his knee and they come calling for Shannys head..  It was a lose lose for Shanahan.  I don't think hes all that great a coach, but if he makes it through unhurt and they win or lose RG3 is still "heroic" and its not a big deal...Now that he got hurt, its stupid and dumb and risky......Lessons to go around for everybody..RG3 to not be a moron, Shanny to not listen to a 22 year old..and Snyder needs to shell some cash for new turf.
[/quote]

I would agree had RGIII not gimped around for 2.5 quarters before finally doing more damage to the knew. He was completely ineffective after he hurt it just before the TD on the 2nd drive. When he's not throwing the ball well and he's limping around the corner on a read, you gotta get the guy out. It's on Shanahan. I just hope it's not too bad.
[/quote]

Makes sense....he limped all the Dallas game and then from the start of the Seattle game it was no different.  Maybe would have been best to pull a Nationals move and shutdown their franchise player.....

How bad and weak was his knee if it just did that when he was bending over to pick up a ball?  You would think a brace is supposed to prevent your leg from bending like that lol
[/quote]

His limp in the Dallas game and the 1st 2 drives of the Seattle game was not nearly as bad as it was after he hurt his knee just before that 2nd TD. Anyone that watched these 2 games would be able to see that. When he went around the right side just before that 2nd TD he tweaked it and he was terribly ineffective going forward. Everyone in the stadium, including the announcers, saw it. After the next 3 drives when Washington was terrible on offense and RGIII had a huge limp going on, Shanahan should have taken him out. Call me monday morning QB if you will, but everyone in the country knew he should have been taken out.

The comparison to Strasburg is a very flawed analogy. The Nationals shut down Strasburg just before the playoffs when he was perfectly healthy in fear of preventing future injury. This was a very debatable move. The Redskins should have shut down RGIII on Sunday because he wasn't healthy at all and everyone in the country could see it. There was no question he shouldn't have been playing after those 1st few drives.
[/quote]

The Strasburg thing wasnt meant to actually be serious...

My comparison with the Dallas game was more toward the fans and how they are turning on Shanny.  The same could have happened in that game, and it was clear he was still hurt and limited..  Seattle it just got worse and ultimately ended up tearing his knee all up.  Skins fans have never been ones to not be delusional but you cant really have it both ways.  Well see if everybody involved learned....

How nice it must be to be Dr Andrews....dude probably prints his own money at this point.
[/quote]
Lets put it this way .......... Dr Andrews has his own private jet ...... at last count he owns 6 mansions around the country ......... belongs to multiple country clubs all over ......... He's doing ok !!!

[ProBowler]

What gets me is that some of the " wanna-be " Redskin reporters on here said that they were sure that it was ...... " just a sprain " !!!



Does that look like just a " sprain " ???

Shanahan SHOULD have taken him out in the second quarter after watching him limp back to the huddle.
Any SANE coach would have !!
57 yards of offense in 3 quarters !!!!

This re-injury is on Shanahan's head.
No one else's

[highergr0und]

I've never really heard people pile on a coach like this before....  Is it because they were losing the game?  

Sounds like Shanahan was screwed either way.  If he pulled him and it turned out to be a sprain, well he just blew the season.  By leaving him in, he might have blown next season.  

If I'm a coach, I keep playing him as long as I believe he's the best option to win the game and pull him once he's not.  As long as Shanahan did that, he should accept no blame.  The idea of laying off until next year is weak and money driven.  I don't know what it is about DC, but I can't believe the Nats shut Strat down for the playoffs either.  

And as long as RGIII thought he could play, he should play.  He should also pull himself when he doesn't think he can pull it off any more.

Edited by highergr0und, 09 January 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Frankensteins Monster]

He'll be back for the first game of the season.

[ProBowler]

We'll see

[SOONERMAGIC]

Last I read he was only out for "up to 8mo"  So at the worst he is out until August.  Hardly the 2013 season.

You work for major media?

[ProBowler]

In the medical field ...... Ortho / Neuro