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Quite Hands Downswing


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#1 Hozzle

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

I had an iron fitting last week and the guy giving me the fitting happens to be a very good instructor as well.  He couldn't resist so I got a free 15 min tune up with my fitting. I was struggling with consistent contact getting near the hozzle and the marks showed my toe was hitting the board first.  I didn't expect him to say you’re trying to square the club face at the bottom with your hands. I said yeah I tend to early release a bit at the top. He says no your doing it at the bottom.  Perplexed I said what you are asking me to do.  He says drive with the lower body and forget about releasing the club and your hands it will happen naturally.  Mind you I'm a decent player so I tried to hit without using my hands or writs driving with the legs.  What a different ball flight.  Much more penetrating and not ballooning.  My 6 iron usually carries 185ish.  I was carring over 190 swing well incontrol  I guess he scored some lessons when it warms up here.  What are your thoughts on his statement?


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#2 kellygreen

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostHozzle, on 06 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I had an iron fitting last week and the guy giving me the fitting happens to be a very good instructor as well.  He couldn't resist so I got a free 15 min tune up with my fitting. I was struggling with consistent contact getting near the hozzle and the marks showed my toe was hitting the board first.  I didn't expect him to say you’re trying to square the club face at the bottom with your hands. I said yeah I tend to early release a bit at the top. He says no your doing it at the bottom.  Perplexed I said what you are asking me to do.  He says drive with the lower body and forget about releasing the club and your hands it will happen naturally.  Mind you I'm a decent player so I tried to hit without using my hands or writs driving with the legs.  What a different ball flight.  Much more penetrating and not ballooning.  My 6 iron usually carries 185ish.  I was carring over 190 swing well incontrol  I guess he scored some lessons when it warms up here.  What are your thoughts on his statement?

I don't believe in telling people with an athletic background to "drive their legs" on the downswing...because they tend to exaggerate the action and create more problems than it solves.

But I agree with what he had to say about the arms and hands.  The release is an EFFECT of good technique and a sound grip.  It is not something that has to be made to happen.

Anymore than you have to "flick" your wrist when you throw a baseball or shot a basketball.

Just swing your arms down from the top, and TRUST that the release will happen when it is supposed to.
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#3 Jon Robert

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

People can "cast" at the bottom as well. So what I take is he was telling you to stop a late casting. Easy enough to see in a swing video.

As for the driving of the lower body I see the result being a forward leaning shaft and a delofted club thus the extra long distance for that loft (club loft in name only -actually delofted. 190yd 6 iron is 20yds over PGA tour ave.) In effect the driving of the lower body is out racing the casting and defeating the casting somewhat.

#4 Hozzle

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

View PostJon Robert, on 06 January 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

People can "cast" at the bottom as well. So what I take is he was telling you to stop a late casting. Easy enough to see in a swing video.

As for the driving of the lower body I see the result being a forward leaning shaft and a delofted club thus the extra long distance for that loft (club loft in name only -actually delofted. 190yd 6 iron is 20yds over PGA tour ave.) In effect the driving of the lower body is out racing the casting and defeating the casting somewhat.
I was hitting the Ping S56 with X100 at the time. Nice Club.  My driver swing speed is 115ish.  Can casting at the bottom causes the dirty shanks?  I struggle with them some on and off.

#5 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

You're not doing what you are doing for no reason.  As Kelly said, it's an effect, not a cause.  Your body is reacting to getting yourself out of position.

I also agree with Kelly that driving your legs would either create a new problem or make the current on worse.

Good chance You are getting steep in transition and early extending, but that is also a effect and not a cause.

Would have to see a video, but the common root causes that match your description is an inside backswing leading to too much extra arm lift at the top of the swing and possibly getting the upper body moving laterally in front of the ball.

Edited by MonteScheinblum, 06 January 2013 - 10:16 PM.

Pulling the handle
I am so so steep
Shankopotomus finds me
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I am Gavrilo Princip

#6 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

View PostHozzle, on 06 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

forget about releasing the club and your hands it will happen naturally.  What are your thoughts on his statement?
You've come to the right place to talk about core-driven, body release, non handsy swing methods !
The slicefixer swing certainly meets that criteria.

#7 Jon Robert

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostHozzle, on 06 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

View PostJon Robert, on 06 January 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

People can "cast" at the bottom as well. So what I take is he was telling you to stop a late casting. Easy enough to see in a swing video.

As for the driving of the lower body I see the result being a forward leaning shaft and a delofted club thus the extra long distance for that loft (club loft in name only -actually delofted. 190yd 6 iron is 20yds over PGA tour ave.) In effect the driving of the lower body is out racing the casting and defeating the casting somewhat.
I was hitting the Ping S56 with X100 at the time. Nice Club.  My driver swing speed is 115ish.  Can casting at the bottom causes the dirty shanks?  I struggle with them some on and off.

Casting supposedly is frequently accompanied  an out to in path (You said the toe is hitting the board first = out to in and or weak wrist club flop from momentum) so the wonderful brain we have compensates with an exaggerated in to out.  This over compensation direction  is a great opportunity to catch the ball in that little corner formed by the hosel and face.

What I found helps me get back on track is to really really reach for the ball at address to make it very difficult to get an out to in - which gets rid of the need for the overly in to out compensation  - which gets rid of the trapping ball in hosel/face corner.

Reach reach reach just like Moe Norman did until you are out of the funk

You can also just be standing too close to the ball and the in to out business is less of a factor.

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#8 Hozzle

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 06 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

You're not doing what you are doing for no reason.  As Kelly said, it's an effect, not a cause.  Your body is reacting to getting yourself out of position.

I also agree with Kelly that driving your legs would either create a new problem or make the current on worse.

Good chance You are getting steep in transition and early extending, but that is also a effect and not a cause.

Would have to see a video, but the common root causes that match your description is an inside backswing leading to too much extra arm lift at the top of the swing and possibly getting the upper body moving laterally in front of the ball.
I'll stick a video on tomorrow. I actually get fussed at because I tend to get the club away from me on the back swing.  I really struggle with getting off the right side.  If I don't press the left hip foward at the top of the backswing I can't get to my left side.

Edited by Hozzle, 07 January 2013 - 09:22 PM.


#9 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

View PostHozzle, on 07 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'll stick a video on tomorrow. I actually get fussed at because I tend to get the club away from me on the back swing.  I really struggle with getting off the right side.  If I don't press the left hip foward at the top of the backswing I can't get to my left side.
Try Monte's deep right hip turn and you won't need to slide ... you'll never be out of position !
Why slide when you are already there :)




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