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How to stop straightening right leg on backswing

Reverse pivot weight shift top

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#1 Bay1524

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

I returned to the range last night after about a four month layaway. I was shooting low to mid 80s when I put the clubs away at the end of last summer. Yesterday, I took some video and noticed that I was straightening my right leg on the backswing and I topped nearly every iron shot or sky balled every driver.

I assume I have a reverse pivot but I kept trying different things and wasn't sure how to keep my right knee bent or to get weight to that foot so the leg couldn't straighten. Any tips?


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#2 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

Your issue probably has little to do with the right knee.

Post the video, but the likely cause of your bad shots is getting the upper body moving laterally in transitions and getting in front of the ball at impact.
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#3 Bay1524

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:30 PM

Not sure how to shift video from TW swing app to here. Any tips anyone? [Maybe that should be a post of its own!]

#4 e fudd

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:18 PM

Concentrate on your posture and maintaining your spine angle through your transition. When you're doing this properly it actually makes it difficult to straighten your right leg.  After a layoff, I often get lazy with my posture and experience the same issues.

Give it a try and see what happens.

Good luck.

#5 Guia

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:21 PM

Sounds as if you are not rotating your hips but letting the right hip pop out.  Bend your knees and
rotate around your spine.  It could be a reverse pivot.


#6 jgonz69

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:42 AM

So straightening your right leg on the backswing is bad?

#7 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

 jgonz69, on 06 January 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

So straightening your right leg on the backswing is bad?

No.  As long as its happening for a good reason.
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#8 AllenResGolf

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:39 AM

It's ok to straighten the right leg, just dont lock the knee, it will help you get a better hip turn on the back swing. You could be topping the ball because you are pulling your arms in through impact or you are coming up out of the shot at impact.

#9 Jon Robert

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:16 AM

Stop fighting your tendencies. Titleist had a seminar saying this very thing - TPI Body Swing Copnnection.
Therefore use the stack and Tilt Swing which desires the straightening of the right leg. Based on observing that golf’s greats did that very thing. (Blog #2)

TPI
https://www.youtube....e&v=bk06DErc3rc

S&T

Edited by Jon Robert, 06 January 2013 - 09:22 AM.


#10 buteman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

 Bay1524, on 05 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

I returned to the range last night after about a four month layaway. I was shooting low to mid 80s when I put the clubs away at the end of last summer. Yesterday, I took some video and noticed that I was straightening my right leg on the backswing and I topped nearly every iron shot or sky balled every driver.

I assume I have a reverse pivot but I kept trying different things and wasn't sure how to keep my right knee bent or to get weight to that foot so the leg couldn't straighten. Any tips?

I was about to post the same topic ,, glad you did first, I'm having the exact same issue and it's really bad. I also was positive it was my right knee, I have a most difficult time maintaining my flex, there has to be a fix out there somewhere ,, good luck.


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#11 nevets88

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

It's okay to let your rear leg flex. Look at all the top players in the PGA. They all lose some of their flex at P4/A4, at the top. Look at Bubba Watson.

#12 Sawgrass

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

I'm no instructor, and just an average player, but your question about "how to keep your right knee bent" reminded me of a video clip I once saw where Lee Trevino was having a terrible time stopping an amateur he was trying to teach stop from swaying.  This is a vague memory, and I might have some of the details wrong but Trevino tried for a while and got quite frustrated.

Finally, Trevino got loud, and said to the guy, "I'm Lee Trevino, and I'm telling you not to move your head back!"  The guy managed to follow his direction!  I tell this perhaps odd story because it seems to me that anyone can demand of themselves that they keep their right knee bent if they really want to.  The trouble comes from trying to keep your right knee bent and do all the other stuff that's still in your head.  So my process when I try to change something is to try to change it and allow everything else to go to hell for a while -- then add back in all the other good stuff.

I hope this thought is of interest, and I hope even more that it isn't damaging!

#13 buteman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

 AllenResGolf, on 06 January 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

It's ok to straighten the right leg, just dont lock the knee, it will help you get a better hip turn on the back swing. You could be topping the ball because you are pulling your arms in through impact or you are coming up out of the shot at impact.

Sorry but please don't tell anyone with that particular issue ( straightening the right leg on the backswing ) that it's " OKAY ".
It most certainly is NOT OKAY ! and it's not hip turn we are dealing with, and if the OP is coming out of the shot at impact as you mentioned then I have no doubt that the cause could most certainly be the straightening of the right leg.
As " e Fudd " posted it's imperative to maintain the spine angle during the transition and there is absolutely no chance of maintaining the spine angle if you straighten the right leg on the backswing.
Ben Hogan never changed his spine angle, he always insited one of the most important parts of the stance, posture and backswing was maintaining the flex in the right knee.

#14 AllenResGolf

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:22 PM

First off I understand how you feel, I would have felt the same way. This is a subject of opinion, some instructors say that you should maintain the flex and others don't. It is ok to straighten the right leg as long as you don't lock the knee where the leg is completely straight. Ben hogan did not have a lot of flex in his right leg.

Attached File  hogan.jpg   37.45K   0 downloads

Edited by AllenResGolf, 06 January 2013 - 08:24 PM.


#15 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:52 PM



Just about says it all......


#16 russc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

Think of it from this slightly different viewpoint  .Maintain your right knee brace as you  rotate your right hip which results in   your right hip and knee MOVING AWAY FROM THE TARGET LINE

#17 buteman

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

 DoctorLoomis, on 06 January 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:



Just about says it all......

Absolutely ,, a wonderful example, now that being said if we were to study numerous golf swings from this day and age ( as I have done ) I would say it would be next to impossible to find any of the top players having a straight right leg at the top of the backswing.
I certainly respect your opinion as I'm sure you do mine and constructive debate is always refreshing in my opinion anyway.
I'm a great believer in the " if all else fails " concept, golf is such a wonderful game and a game we can play well into our retirement ( I'm 67 ). I believe that to avoid complicated mechanical fixes ( and as I'm sure you will agree there are countless " fixes " out there ) that one would benefit significantly by going back to simple basics.
At this particular time as the snow is steadily falling here I find it most enjoyable and beneficial to sit down with Mr. Hogan's book ( Five Lessons ) perhaps a fine single malt from the land of my birth and a good fire.
Hogan had a beautiful set up at address and he always maintained his spine angle throughout his swing, the illustration you posted was excellent but if for example Hogan had been wearing shorts it would ( in my opinion ) show a great deal more knee flex than what actually appears in the example you posted.
Hogan maintained that the right knee should be pointed in slightly at address and that the flex in the right knee had to be maintained as did the spine angle throughout the swing.
Yes indeed, when all else fails go back to basics, I firmly believe that is a wonderful starting point when issues with one's particular golf swing arises.
One last point, I have the same issue as the OP and I'm working on it at an indoor range, I use nothing but a seven iron using a 3/4 swing and I have a little brace under the outside of my right foot which certainly is helping ,,, have a great day.

#18 cbrian

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

There is a problem when you try to get very strict about generalizations. There are great golfers that lose a lot of trail knee flex (current example Bubba) and there are great golfers that lose almost no flex (Sergio). There is no perfect answer, there are only possibilities. One guy's pattern might be perfectly fine without losing any flex whereas another might increase his hip and shoulder rotation exponentially through allowing the trail leg to lose (some) flex.

All this stuff about how you can't rotate if the trail knee doesn't lose some flex (said that a few times myself) or how you can't maintain your "spine angle" and will reverse pivot if you do lose flex, is wrong. Don't mean to be rude, but it is.

With all of that said, I'd feel fine in making the generalization that most amateurs would be better off with losing some flex as opposed to none.

#19 AllenResGolf

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

 cbrian, on 07 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

There is a problem when you try to get very strict about generalizations. There are great golfers that lose a lot of trail knee flex (current example Bubba) and there are great golfers that lose almost no flex (Sergio). There is no perfect answer, there are only possibilities. One guy's pattern might be perfectly fine without losing any flex whereas another might increase his hip and shoulder rotation exponentially through allowing the trail leg to lose (some) flex.

All this stuff about how you can't rotate if the trail knee doesn't lose some flex (said that a few times myself) or how you can't maintain your "spine angle" and will reverse pivot if you do lose flex, is wrong. Don't mean to be rude, but it is.

With all of that said, I'd feel fine in making the generalization that most amateurs would be better off with losing some flex as opposed to none.

Well said!

#20 e fudd

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

 cbrian, on 07 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

There is a problem when you try to get very strict about generalizations. There are great golfers that lose a lot of trail knee flex (current example Bubba) and there are great golfers that lose almost no flex (Sergio). There is no perfect answer, there are only possibilities. One guy's pattern might be perfectly fine without losing any flex whereas another might increase his hip and shoulder rotation exponentially through allowing the trail leg to lose (some) flex.

All this stuff about how you can't rotate if the trail knee doesn't lose some flex (said that a few times myself) or how you can't maintain your "spine angle" and will reverse pivot if you do lose flex, is wrong. Don't mean to be rude, but it is.

With all of that said, I'd feel fine in making the generalization that most amateurs would be better off with losing some flex as opposed to none.
The fact remains that if you maintain your posture through transition, your right knee will stay more stable through your transition. It's not a matter of whether or not you straighten it--it's a matter of keeping your basic centrifugal center throughout your swing. You're not rude...but to say anyone is outright WRONG implies that what you advise is RIGHT. And  CERTAINTY is the biggest problem in golf instruction.


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#21 Gbyeball

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:39 AM

 e fudd, on 10 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

 cbrian, on 07 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

There is a problem when you try to get very strict about generalizations. There are great golfers that lose a lot of trail knee flex (current example Bubba) and there are great golfers that lose almost no flex (Sergio). There is no perfect answer, there are only possibilities. One guy's pattern might be perfectly fine without losing any flex whereas another might increase his hip and shoulder rotation exponentially through allowing the trail leg to lose (some) flex.

All this stuff about how you can't rotate if the trail knee doesn't lose some flex (said that a few times myself) or how you can't maintain your "spine angle" and will reverse pivot if you do lose flex, is wrong. Don't mean to be rude, but it is.

With all of that said, I'd feel fine in making the generalization that most amateurs would be better off with losing some flex as opposed to none.
The fact remains that if you maintain your posture through transition, your right knee will stay more stable through your transition. It's not a matter of whether or not you straighten it--it's a matter of keeping your basic centrifugal center throughout your swing. You're not rude...but to say anyone is outright WRONG implies that what you advise is RIGHT. And  CERTAINTY is the biggest problem in golf instruction.

The point cbrian was making is correct " there are no absolutes in the golf swing". Have a really good look at all the tour players none of them are built the same and none of them swing the same. It boils down to matching up all the different elements in the swing. Shoulder turn, cupped or straight leading wrist, steep or shallow right knee bent or straightening etc. etc. Just look at all the post about "flipping" there usually something else going on before the flip that causes it but guy only see the end result and not the cause. Reading the posts from iteach is very enlightening as he has discussed at lenght how marrying up all the different components of the swing is paramount and mixing in the wrong elements can be a recipe for failure. This is what I read into cbrian's post.
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#22 SunkTheBirdie

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

 Gbyeball, on 11 January 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

The point cbrian was making is correct " there are no absolutes in the golf swing".
None ?
Seems to me there must be "some".
and it seems to me that some "essentials" are more important than others.
Is coming way too inside and OTT OK ?

#23 Gbyeball

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

 SunkTheBirdie, on 11 January 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

 Gbyeball, on 11 January 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

The point cbrian was making is correct " there are no absolutes in the golf swing".
None ?
Seems to me there must be "some".
and it seems to me that some "essentials" are more important than others.
Is coming way too inside and OTT OK ?

Yea ok if you insist I guess standing on your head is not good. Anything taken out of context can be miss leading.

Coming way too inside works if a huge hook is needed, OTT sure if a big high slice is called for. My point was there are alot of pieces to the swing that need to sync up and we all  do things a bit differently than one another.

Guess I should have said there are "few"  absolutes. I humbley stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.

Edited by Gbyeball, 11 January 2013 - 12:50 PM.

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#24 jokerusn

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

 russc, on 06 January 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Think of it from this slightly different viewpoint  .Maintain your right knee brace as you  rotate your right hip which results in   your right hip and knee MOVING AWAY FROM THE TARGET LINE

I have the EXACT same problem.  I'm topping my woods and thinning my irons.  The only thing that fixes it for me is this thought.  I try to keep my knee BRACED though the backswing.  I even use that word in my head.  I find that if my right knee gets loose, I stand up a little which gets me too far in front and above the ball to put a good strike on it.  As soon as I brace my right knee throughout the backswing, I get much purer strikes.  Often, all it takes is to slow my back swing down. The byproduct of that is that I'm concentrating on my swing more.
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#25 juliette91

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

 e fudd, on 05 January 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Concentrate on your posture and maintaining your spine angle through your transition. When you're doing this properly it actually makes it difficult to straighten your right leg.  After a layoff, I often get lazy with my posture and experience the same issues.

Give it a try and see what happens.

Good luck.

I agree with you and would add an easier way to maintain your spine angle, a way to feel a strong body sensation so you can more easily maintain it:  squeeze your buttox together, not as hard as you
can but gently enough to both clearly notice it and be able to maintain that squeeze.  Rising up out of the shot on the downswing (much more common than straightening up on the backswing, I think)
can really be kept under control by this checkpoint.  In fact if you did nothing else--all caps-- no swing thoughts whatsoever--except concentrate on your squeezing butt muscles you'd be better off especially
as an 80s shooter.


#26 theebdk

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

Bay:

I had this problem and it was pointed out by my pro.  Would straighten right knee and the hip overrotated.  He had me put a rolled small towel under the right side of foot so that it would force me to keep some flex and the weight on the inside of foot.  A ball would likely work as well.  Good luck.

#27 Rosco1216

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

Keep the weight on your back foot towards the toes and ball of your foot, if you have it toward the heel at all your leg will naturally have the tendency to straighten. For example, exaggerated a little bit with starting with your heel slightly off the ground.
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#28 cbrian

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

 Gbyeball, on 11 January 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

The point cbrian was making is correct " there are no absolutes in the golf swing". Have a really good look at all the tour players none of them are built the same and none of them swing the same. It boils down to matching up all the different elements in the swing. Shoulder turn, cupped or straight leading wrist, steep or shallow right knee bent or straightening etc. etc. Just look at all the post about "flipping" there usually something else going on before the flip that causes it but guy only see the end result and not the cause. Reading the posts from iteach is very enlightening as he has discussed at lenght how marrying up all the different components of the swing is paramount and mixing in the wrong elements can be a recipe for failure. This is what I read into cbrian's post.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I was saying. The only thing that I said that came close to advice was that I thought most people that don't play for a living would probably be better off with losing SOME as opposed to NONE.

However, because someone dug this up I was reminded of something. I believe I remember seeing numbers of a PGA Tour winner actually gaining right knee flex in the backswing. I won't mention his name or the numbers because I don't remember everything perfectly, but just another example of the possibilities.

Edited by cbrian, 11 January 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#29 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

Here is the issue.  Keeping the flex or losing most of it falls into the window of what will produce a good swing and strike.

The debate lies in what is producing those things.

If you are straightening here right knee by reverese tilting, that's terrible.

If you are maintaining the knee flex by restricting the hip turn, that is also terrible.

What the right knee doing is actually not relevant in and of itself.
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#30 bogeypro

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

Keep in mind that the weight doesn't get on top of the right leg, but rather loads inside of it.  Look at the bobby jones video above - he may straighten his right leg, but he coils inside it and not on top of it.  think of keep your right knee flex and loading into the right leg and not on top of the right leg.

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