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Do most players need more loft?


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#1 PingPoncho

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:57 AM

I was reading an article in one of the golf magazines and it said most amateurs do not play with enough loft in their woods (I assume he meant driver and fairway woods). Does having more loft lessen your chances of slicing and will it give you more distance since you are not influenced by the different bounces and rolls you get once your ball hits the ground? If It is stays in the air longer, you are not dealing with that issue and I would assume you would hit it farther. Is it just a Macho thing that we choose a lower lofted wood instead?


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#2 Vindog

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

Loft is only part of the equation, of course, but it can be summed up in one or two statements.
  • Most players (amateurs) think they swing faster than they really do, and don't have the CH sped to use a lower lofted driver.
  • Most amateurs don't have the correct flex shaft to go with the correct loft head. (mostly too stiff)
You hear the commercials about Dicks and their fitting and all that crap, but NONE of the DSG in Maine give a rat's butt about getting you into the right club.  They aren't interested in doing any more work than they have to, so Joe Consumer has absolutely no idea.

"Hey check this beast out!! Take it into that back room and blast it a few times.  Pretty sweet, eh?  Is that credit or debit?"

I only use Dick's because that's where most of the average Joe's are buying their clubs.  If they aren't being told the correct process, then they will never know...

Edited by Vindog, 04 January 2013 - 10:15 AM.

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#3 golfcaddy1969

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

I have tried everything from 10.5 to 7.5. For me I battle spin due to a swing flaw wih my driver. So I use a lower lofted driver and I use low spin balls. It works for me but for most golfers I would not try this. I still hit the ball high enough with a 7.5 loft but most important for me is getting some roll out.

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#4 jmvargas

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

as a senior golfer(am 67) and having played this game for 55 years--95mph driver ss and a 12 hdcp-- i KNOW i need more loft in my longer clubs for optimum performance..

this may not necessarily be the case for younger golfers with have enough speed---and ability..
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#5 juststeve

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

Yes.  Most male golfers need more loft and softer shafts as well.  
Steve


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#6 Mav281

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:13 AM

Certainly seems to be the case according to TaylorMade at the moment.  Only have to look at their current R1 add to see that.

Realistically it's true though, most high handicap golfers are reluctant to play 11*, 12* even 13* drivers because they think they will lose distance by smashing the ball skywards, not to mention the fact their pride is bashed.  The truth of the matter is their trajectory/ball flight with their current 9* or 10* driver will be poor and gains would be seen by playing a driver that is more suited to their handicap.

Im currently gaming a Razr Fit 11.5* driver which I was fitted for and have seen improved yardage over my previous 10.5* Nike Machspeed Black.

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#7 Nessism

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

The ideal way to maximize distance is to fly the ball as far as possible.  Once the ball hits the ground there are energy loss's that occur due to friction between the ball and turf.  Ideally, you want the ball to fly far with low spin.  Once the ball hits the ground, the low spin allows the ball to run out longer than a high spinning ball will (just like an approach shot into the green).  

I'd have to agree that many people play drivers that afford too low a flight.  Don't want to paint with too broad a brush though.  As always, it's best to be fit to your club in an intelligent way.  No surprises here.
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#8 MadGolfer76

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostVindog, on 04 January 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Loft is only part of the equation, of course, but it can be summed up in one or two statements.
  • Most players (amateurs) think they swing faster than they really do, and don't have the CH sped to use a lower lofted driver.
  • Most amateurs don't have the correct flex shaft to go with the correct loft head. (mostly too stiff)
You hear the commercials about Dicks and their fitting and all that crap, but NONE of the DSG in Maine give a rat's butt about getting you into the right club.  They aren't interested in doing any more work than they have to, so Joe Consumer has absolutely no idea.

"Hey check this beast out!! Take it into that back room and blast it a few times.  Pretty sweet, eh?  Is that credit or debit?"

I only use Dick's because that's where most of the average Joe's are buying their clubs.  If they aren't being told the correct process, then they will never know...

Couldn't agree more, Vin!

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#9 Lefty94

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

I definitely think that I need more loft on my driver. I hit the ball far enough 260-270ish with the occasional 300 yd poke. However I have always had a lower more piercing ball flight, especially with my driver. I have always played a 9.5. This past year I have really noticed that my driving distance isn't what it should be and feel that it is a lot less than in previous years. I have only used glued drivers in the past. However this year I think I am going to invest in an adjustable driver, probably a 10.5. That way I can play around with it and get it set where I need. I can bump it to 11 if I need more or back down to 9.5 if needed. But I really think that I need to get an adjustable and get it dialed in.

BTW I think I saw in the Watney/Stanley thread that Watney plays an 11* driver.
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#10 Bodee

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

View PostNessism, on 04 January 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

The ideal way to maximize distance is to fly the ball as far as possible.  Once the ball hits the ground there are energy loss's that occur due to friction between the ball and turf.  Ideally, you want the ball to fly far with low spin.  Once the ball hits the ground, the low spin allows the ball to run out longer than a high spinning ball will (just like an approach shot into the green).  

I'd have to agree that many people play drivers that afford too low a flight.  Don't want to paint with too broad a brush though.  As always, it's best to be fit to your club in an intelligent way.  No surprises here.

+1......Spot on there....Now if I could follow this advice, I'd be all set!

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#11 Yepyukon

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

A lot of golfers need more loft off the tee, more iron into the green, and more bounce on their wedges.

Edited by Yepyukon, 04 January 2013 - 10:46 AM.

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#12 dplasters

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

View PostPingPoncho, on 04 January 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Do most players need more loft?
Lets do this the easy way.

Yes.

Edit*  Saw that you have a Ping logo.  If you pick up just about any Ping driver, the loft on the bottom will be wrong.  Take the number on the bottom and add anything between .2-1.5* of loft and you'll have what you are really hitting.  Many of the OEMs are well aware that players are ego driven and have just gone with lying to you.  Same reason you see stock 'stiff' shafts that are more like R+ at best.  We are silly creatures.

Edited by dplasters, 04 January 2013 - 10:53 AM.


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#13 tbowles411

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Carry is your friend.  I finally had to admit I needed more loft and now use a driver that is around 12 degrees.  It definately made the game easier knowing I can now achieve those "magical" launch numbers.
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#14 CallawayKid86

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

Carry is definitely most players friend. I typically change loft on my driver based on course conditions. If I have a dry course with firm fairways I will lower the loft for more roll. When it's wet and soggy I will play more loft to get further carry since the ball won't roll much after landing.
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#15 BallPincher

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

Every time someone posts this thread people jump in complaining about people using too stiff of shaft, too low of loft on driver, etc.
How about we worry about our own clubs and shafts? Complaining about the shaft on someone else's driver is so hilarious if you give it some thought.


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#16 wayne18

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

I not obsessed with distance like some I play with but I have gotten more distance since switching back to my 10.5 than the 9.5 I was playing with the same setup.
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#17 Vindog

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

View PostBallPincher, on 04 January 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Every time someone posts this thread people jump in complaining about people using too stiff of shaft, too low of loft on driver, etc.
How about we worry about our own clubs and shafts? Complaining about the shaft on someone else's driver is so hilarious if you give it some thought.

Is that what's going on, thread police?   Seems like a discussion to me...
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#18 geoangus

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

For me , I was doing okay with my 910D3 set at 10.5, but my usual fade sometimes got out of control.  I added .75* of loft, which closed the face at the same time, and my drives are not only straighter, but a few yards longer.  It's almost all carry (~245), which depending upon course conditions, can be a good/bad thing.

Edited by geoangus, 04 January 2013 - 12:34 PM.

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#19 dplasters

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

View PostBallPincher, on 04 January 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Every time someone posts this thread people jump in complaining about people using too stiff of shaft, too low of loft on driver, etc.
How about we worry about our own clubs and shafts? Complaining about the shaft on someone else's driver is so hilarious if you give it some thought.
I think this is probably better geared toward the thread about a friend who plays xstiff and hits his driver 220.  But you know, posting in the wrong thread is kinda hilarious if you give it some thought too.

We have a whole subsection on WITB.. the forum exists because we care about what other people play through some sense of community.

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#20 BallPincher

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

View Postdplasters, on 04 January 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I think this is probably better geared toward the thread about a friend who plays xstiff and hits his driver 220.  But you know, posting in the wrong thread is kinda hilarious if you give it some thought too.

We have a whole subsection on WITB.. the forum exists because we care about what other people play through some sense of community.

I agree completely, that's why I have an account and come to the site every day. I was addressing negative posts that paint the membership with a broad brush, basically saying that equipment choices here are ego driven. I just get tired of reading the same recycled post in every other thread in this section.


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#21 dplasters

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

View PostBallPincher, on 04 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Postdplasters, on 04 January 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I think this is probably better geared toward the thread about a friend who plays xstiff and hits his driver 220.  But you know, posting in the wrong thread is kinda hilarious if you give it some thought too.

We have a whole subsection on WITB.. the forum exists because we care about what other people play through some sense of community.

I agree completely, that's why I have an account and come to the site every day. I was addressing negative posts that paint the membership with a broad brush, basically saying that equipment choices here are ego driven. I just get tired of reading the same recycled post in every other thread in this section.
Point taken.  People love to judge though.  Its the nature of the beast.

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#22 Russ757

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

View Postjuststeve, on 04 January 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Yes.  Most male golfers need more loft and softer shafts as well.  
Steve

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#23 mr_divots

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

Most people equate a high shot height with too much loft, rather than an over the top chop with an open clubface causing the issues. There is no problem hitting it as high as you can provided the spin rate remains in check. We really can't replicate the amount of roll we see the pros getting, as the course conditions most ams play on won't provide that kind of roll. I've found myself going to more loft and liking the results.

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#24 dlygrisse

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

If you stop and consider that Tiger Woods, and a lot of other tour pros, use a 15* 3 wood it should be obvious to most that is not enough loft for the average swing speed.  Couple that with his 19* 5 wood and all those who use a 17* or 18* hybrid should pause and think.  Sure you can hit a career shot with a lower lofted club, but if you are smart you should find what gives you your best average results.

*I understand not all 15* 3 woods are created equal, cg, shaft, face angle, face depth etc. but at least you should think about the fact that a 13* 3 wood might not be the best idea.
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#25 Vindog

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

View PostBallPincher, on 04 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

View Postdplasters, on 04 January 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I think this is probably better geared toward the thread about a friend who plays xstiff and hits his driver 220.  But you know, posting in the wrong thread is kinda hilarious if you give it some thought too.

We have a whole subsection on WITB.. the forum exists because we care about what other people play through some sense of community.

I agree completely, that's why I have an account and come to the site every day. I was addressing negative posts that paint the membership with a broad brush, basically saying that equipment choices here are ego driven. I just get tired of reading the same recycled post in every other thread in this section.

Most equipment choices ARE ego driven, for the layman amateur.  Is it your position that they are not?

If you read the OP and not jump to your own conclusions about the thread, then you will see that the question relates to most amateurs according to a golf magazine, and not the membership here, or the choices that are made here.

Edited by Vindog, 04 January 2013 - 01:36 PM.

run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

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#26 dplasters

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 04 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

If you stop and consider that Tiger Woods, and a lot of other tour pros, use a 15* 3 wood it should be obvious to most that is not enough loft for the average swing speed.  Couple that with his 19* 5 wood and all those who use a 17* or 18* hybrid should pause and think.  Sure you can hit a career shot with a lower lofted club, but if you are smart you should find what gives you your best average results.

*I understand not all 15* 3 woods are created equal, cg, shaft, face angle, face depth etc. but at least you should think about the fact that a 13* 3 wood might not be the best idea.
I agree and disagree.  13* off the deck, bad.  13* as driver replacement from the tee, probably good.  15* from the tee as driver replacement (for 50% or so of golfers) probably even better.

Shorter shafts for most people, amazing!

Lessons and/or time in the dirt, priceless for everyone

All of course very generic and there are tons of exceptions, but those are just that, exceptions.

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#27 Wordmixer

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

Here's some perspective from a 50 year-old with 36 years of playing experience: As a 1.6 index with a 101 mph swing speed, I set out this past spring to find an answer to this "more loft" question: I had just bought an Adams driver from Nevada Bob's, and I took it and two other clubs out for a test: two drivers and one strong 3-wood. (The drivers I  own are the Adams F11 / 10.5* / Matrix Ozik Stiff / 44 3/4" length. I also have an older model Titleist 975 L-FE / 9.5* / Purple Ice 65s shaft / 44 1/4" length.

I took 9 Pro V1x balls out to a hole with a flat fairway (it was a slow day, no one else within three holes of me). I hit 3 balls with each driver. The Adams, with a slightly softer shaft and higher ball flight, averaged 252, about 245 of it carry. The Titleist averaged 251, with about 240 of it carry.

Then, just for fun, I took out my Sonartec 13* SS-07 3-wood (which is more like a 2-wood) and hit three balls with it. Guess what? Even with a 43" shaft, it averaged 248, with about 235 of it carry.

What to make of this? Well, I learned that 4 yards between all three clubs was far less distance dispersion that I'd imagined. But I've also discovered that the 13* is the better go-to club for right-to-left tee shots, and the Adams is better for hitting fades. So I carry both.

My advice is to get fitted for a driver, commit to it, then determine which areas of your game need the most work in order to get to the next level in 2013.

Good luck to you!

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#28 BallPincher

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:43 PM

View Postdplasters, on 04 January 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

View Postdlygrisse, on 04 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

If you stop and consider that Tiger Woods, and a lot of other tour pros, use a 15* 3 wood it should be obvious to most that is not enough loft for the average swing speed.  Couple that with his 19* 5 wood and all those who use a 17* or 18* hybrid should pause and think.  Sure you can hit a career shot with a lower lofted club, but if you are smart you should find what gives you your best average results.

*I understand not all 15* 3 woods are created equal, cg, shaft, face angle, face depth etc. but at least you should think about the fact that a 13* 3 wood might not be the best idea.
I agree and disagree.  13* off the deck, bad.  13* as driver replacement from the tee, probably good.  15* from the tee as driver replacement (for 50% or so of golfers) probably even better.

Shorter shafts for most people, amazing!

Lessons and/or time in the dirt, priceless for everyone

All of course very generic and there are tons of exceptions, but those are just that, exceptions.

Great point. Also very unlikely for him to be near out of range on a par 5 with a good drive. The lower lofted "fairway driver" is probably more suited for the average man from a distance standpoint, as he will have more 250-260-270 yard approaches into unprotected greens.

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#29 gambit

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

View Postdplasters, on 04 January 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

View Postdlygrisse, on 04 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

If you stop and consider that Tiger Woods, and a lot of other tour pros, use a 15* 3 wood it should be obvious to most that is not enough loft for the average swing speed.  Couple that with his 19* 5 wood and all those who use a 17* or 18* hybrid should pause and think.  Sure you can hit a career shot with a lower lofted club, but if you are smart you should find what gives you your best average results.

*I understand not all 15* 3 woods are created equal, cg, shaft, face angle, face depth etc. but at least you should think about the fact that a 13* 3 wood might not be the best idea.
I agree and disagree.  13* off the deck, bad.  13* as driver replacement from the tee, probably good.  15* from the tee as driver replacement (for 50% or so of golfers) probably even better.

Shorter shafts for most people, amazing!

Lessons and/or time in the dirt, priceless for everyone

All of course very generic and there are tons of exceptions, but those are just that, exceptions.

Question about the shorter shaft comment...would choking down have the same effect or would it be slightly different?

Also, I agree with 13* off the tee as a driver replacement, especially on tight holes, is a good idea. I'm experimenting with that right now, adjusting the loft on my 15* to 16.5 and the loft on my 19* hybrid to 20.5 and then dropping the 21* hybrid. Hopefully it works out or it's gonna be an expensive test.
M1 440 9.5 w/ Veylix Rome 688 Wildeye
TEE CB Pro 16.5* w/ AD-GT 8x
Tour Issue Aeroburner 5HL 21* w/ AD-GT 8x
Adams Pro Mini 24* w/ DI 95x
Miura 57 CB 5-P w/ Steelfiber i95S
Miura New Wedge Series 51, 55, 59 w/ KBS Tour Wedge Shafts
Byron Morgan 612

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#30 Woodridge

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

Good discussion....Another factor is that there is no set standard for shaft stiffness. Mr. Tom Wishon has written about this and it had a huge impact on my game. I think that's why it is so important to get fit...especially if you're able to try out multiple brands of shafts. Of course, Joe Golfer going into Dick's isn't going to get that opportunity.

Yonex SD eZone 12*
Callaway X-Hot 18* 5w
Ping I-15 4 hybrid
XXIO9 5 hybrid
Epon AF-502 5-PW, Accra 50i Graphite
Epon 210KGX 52*, Accra 60i Graphite
Epon 210KGX 56*, Accra 60i Graphite
Epon Copper 208KGX 60*, Accra 60i Graphite
Ping Redwood ZB 33" w/Flatso 1.0 Counterweight grip

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