9 replies to this topic

[chickenpotpie]

The comment I read in TMAG's sales pitch for its R1 took me by surprise, and I figured I'd throw it out here.  Basically, they commented that a "visually square" head actually sits 1.5 degrees open.  If this is true, then I wonder why people don't consistently hit blocks all day (presuming they square the driver the same way at address).

My question is, how does one make that determination of "visually square"?  I know that you can measure the face angle in a machine, but just by soleing the club, what is it that you are looking for?  Are you comparing the paint break on the crown to the shaft?  Or something else?

Is it not possible to make a head that IS square and also looks visually square?

Just want to get some thoughts on this.

[PingG10guy]

great question.  I've had many variations of this. It depends on how much tilt you have at address and how closed/open you setup (plus ball position).  Eyes in different locations may say it sets up square or open.

It is subjective from the open/closed perspective.  You need to know what you hit the straightest/most-accurate and what fits your eye.  Then worry about how much loft "they" say it has to tweak launch.  And then shaft to tweak it further.

[PingG10guy]

From my experience a TMAG tour van club that says 4-5* open sets up and plays the same as a driver that has a reputation for being 1.5-2.5* open.  Different manufacturers measure things differently as well.  Try before you buy

[HISPL]

I think TM is bang on with what they have said and I think Callaway have mentioned a similar number of degrees of face angle when discussing "optically" square versus square to the target line.

I like the look of 1-2 degrees open because it looks square to my eye, even though I know it isn't square.

I have a face angle gauge at work to verify face angle and anything that looks square to me is always about 2 degrees open.

[MadGolfer76]

My Ft-Tour looks square to me, although I know it isn't.

[TMBob]

chickenpotpie, on 04 January 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

The comment I read in TMAG's sales pitch for its R1 took me by surprise, and I figured I'd throw it out here.  Basically, they commented that a "visually square" head actually sits 1.5 degrees open.  If this is true, then I wonder why people don't consistently hit blocks all day (presuming they square the driver the same way at address).

My question is, how does one make that determination of "visually square"?  I know that you can measure the face angle in a machine, but just by soleing the club, what is it that you are looking for?  Are you comparing the paint break on the crown to the shaft?  Or something else?

Is it not possible to make a head that IS square and also looks visually square?

Just want to get some thoughts on this.

I look at the question about people hitting blocks and my first reaction is that most do not swing the club on the proper path in order to do so, as most are over the top and a early release.

If you put a square or 1.5 degree open set up on a proper swing and proper hand position at impact my guess one would get slight blocks.....so may variables come into play.

Path, Plane, Grip, AOA, club length, lie.......this is why I like adjustable drivers.

[hobbygolfer]

Since I do have the tools to actually meassure FA, I only can say, that it depends on the clubhead. I own a Nickent Evolver, that sits slightly open (0.5°) and looks square to my eyes. And I own a Hathaway driver that sits 1° open and looks at least 1° closed to my eyes. My current driver is a Kimura Shintai (prototype from our company), that sits about 1° open and looks perfectly fine for me. So - it's not only one thing to look at - there are always a couple of parameters to be considered.

Regards,
Michael

[Howard Jones]

The proper way to measure face angle is to square and center the face in a horizontal attitude removing the sole influence, then measure the shaft plane to the square face

[Ri_Redneck]

As far as perspective goes, woods typically APPEAR more closed than they really are. That being said, golfers know what look they like and adapt to it to get the ball to DO what they want. They may tend to push the ball in the beginning OR may over compensate and draw the ball, it all depends on what they see. But given time, most will adapt.

I prefer a very open clubface when the club is resting on the ground. This ensures that the trailing part of the clubs soleplate does not contact the ground before the leading edge, allowing me to pick the ball easily when playing it off the deck.

However, the face angle has NOTHING to do with the ball flight when I swing. When I address the ball, I visually square (at least I THINK so) the clubface when hitting a straight shot and vary it open and closed to work the ball. Other people pick up my woods and ask how the heck I keep from slicing them off the planet, but I just explain that I use my grip to square it, not the ground. So the face angle doesn't do anything for me.

BT

[Onyx Z]

i start out wide open, set to the most open position i can. if i don't, i can't get the ball to not go left.

i think a driver that sits open is necessary to make the ball go straight. you have to think about where the club makes contact compared to where you set it up at. opening the face allows room for the face to square up at impact, which is typically pretty far in the front of your stance.