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Some advice please on what constitutes a classic club


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#1 russad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:06 AM

Hello folks, I'm new to this site and get a lot of enjoyment from reading and viewing the articles, especially about the classic clubs.  I am just wondering if you would consider the MacGregor Tourney muscleback irons from, I think, 1974 to be classic?

I'm currently playing a set of Ram Tom Watson's from the mid eighties which I've had for years and really like but I'm getting tempted to try something older.


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#2 guisician

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

Definitions of "classic" will surely vary, but I'd consider both the Rams in the bag & the MacGregors you're thinking of replacing them with to be classics.
MODERN play set (12 pc.):
Yonex eZone 380 driver, Callaway X2 Hot Pro 4w
Royal Collection JP104 4h, Callaway Heavenwood 5 & 6h
Royal Collection Tour VS irons (7-PW)
Edel TRP SW (54), Cleveland CG15 LW (64)
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport Beach putter
--------
HICKORY play set (7 pc.):
Jack White JWX Model D brassie & spoon, Mills BSD1 aluminium cleek
Tom Stewart mashie, Tom Morris mashie niblick
Tom Stewart niblick, Spalding HB putter

#3 numberonecoog

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

I think they are classics
Driver- Adams Fast 12 LS 9.5
3 Wood- 910F 15 degree
3h,4h Adams Pro
4-PW Nickent 3dx Pro
52,56,60 Hopkins
Putter-TBD
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#4 russad

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:48 AM

Thank you for the feedback, it is good to feel that I'm on the same wavelength, if/when I get them I'll post a picture.  I also have a set of Wilson 1200 irons, I think circa 1976, which I sometimes use and to me they are pretty classic.

Edited by russad, 06 January 2013 - 12:33 AM.


#5 tembolo1284

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

Def classics!

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

#6 MrParr1Noid

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

View Posttembolo1284, on 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Def classics!

Something that's old, and that you don't have but you'd like to have... :)

p.s.  Who to rechrome my Apex II's?
Ah 11s 17* w/Pink Aldila NVS
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#7 guisician

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 13 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

View Posttembolo1284, on 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Def classics!

Something that's old, and that you don't have but you'd like to have... :)

p.s.  Who to rechrome my Apex II's?

Hear all good things about...

http://www.theironfactory.com/
MODERN play set (12 pc.):
Yonex eZone 380 driver, Callaway X2 Hot Pro 4w
Royal Collection JP104 4h, Callaway Heavenwood 5 & 6h
Royal Collection Tour VS irons (7-PW)
Edel TRP SW (54), Cleveland CG15 LW (64)
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport Beach putter
--------
HICKORY play set (7 pc.):
Jack White JWX Model D brassie & spoon, Mills BSD1 aluminium cleek
Tom Stewart mashie, Tom Morris mashie niblick
Tom Stewart niblick, Spalding HB putter

#8 teevons

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:18 AM

View Postguisician, on 14 January 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 13 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

View Posttembolo1284, on 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Def classics!

Something that's old, and that you don't have but you'd like to have... :)

p.s.  Who to rechrome my Apex II's?

Hear all good things about...

http://www.theironfactory.com/
I have about 30 heads at the Iron Factory right now and will get them back in another week or so ,I will show   his work when I receive them

#9 NRJyzr

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

View Postguisician, on 14 January 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 13 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

View Posttembolo1284, on 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Def classics!

Something that's old, and that you don't have but you'd like to have... :)

p.s.  Who to rechrome my Apex II's?

Hear all good things about...

http://www.theironfactory.com/

Iron Factory has a good rep and has generally produced good product, but I admit I have trepidation, considering they were busted for dumping toxic chemicals directly into the water supply.

I'm surprised more folks don't remember this, it wasn't THAT long ago.
The Ever Changing Bag!
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Mizuno TPM-2 or Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, both 34"

#10 MrParr1Noid

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:50 PM

View Postteevons, on 15 January 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

View Postguisician, on 14 January 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 13 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

View Posttembolo1284, on 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Def classics!

Something that's old, and that you don't have but you'd like to have... :)

p.s.  Who to rechrome my Apex II's?

Hear all good things about...

http://www.theironfactory.com/
I have about 30 heads at the Iron Factory right now and will get them back in another week or so ,I will show   his work when I receive them

Thanks guys, and what I've been wanting to do forever, I procrastinate with the best of them.   The Hogan Apex II's I've been in a  "Love / Hate" relationship with the whole time I bagged them... :)   Now I'm spoiled...Old And Spoiled... :lol:

Ah 11s 17* w/Pink Aldila NVS
Raza Phitt Stream 10.5 w/Fuji 6.1
Oddsea MXM #1 w/Site Dot
Big Bersa Pex Pro 4-PW w/Recoil Graph
Golf Made Easy
Golf'rs Gone Wild

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#11 guisician

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Thanks guys, and what I've been wanting to do forever, I procrastinate with the best of them.   The Hogan Apex II's I've been in a  "Love / Hate" relationship with the whole time I bagged them... :)   Now I'm spoiled...Old And Spoiled... :lol:

White or black cameos?
MODERN play set (12 pc.):
Yonex eZone 380 driver, Callaway X2 Hot Pro 4w
Royal Collection JP104 4h, Callaway Heavenwood 5 & 6h
Royal Collection Tour VS irons (7-PW)
Edel TRP SW (54), Cleveland CG15 LW (64)
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport Beach putter
--------
HICKORY play set (7 pc.):
Jack White JWX Model D brassie & spoon, Mills BSD1 aluminium cleek
Tom Stewart mashie, Tom Morris mashie niblick
Tom Stewart niblick, Spalding HB putter

#12 Mitchell

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

Edited by mitchell, 15 January 2013 - 09:22 PM.

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                Ping Zing2 BeNi

#13 MrParr1Noid

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

View Postguisician, on 15 January 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Thanks guys, and what I've been wanting to do forever, I procrastinate with the best of them.   The Hogan Apex II's I've been in a  "Love / Hate" relationship with the whole time I bagged them... :)   Now I'm spoiled...Old And Spoiled... :lol:

White or black cameos?

1978 white?  Heck even back then the first thing I did was remove all the paint fill...and a friend of mine flattened the lie in a vice with a protractor and a hammer...


Ah 11s 17* w/Pink Aldila NVS
Raza Phitt Stream 10.5 w/Fuji 6.1
Oddsea MXM #1 w/Site Dot
Big Bersa Pex Pro 4-PW w/Recoil Graph
Golf Made Easy
Golf'rs Gone Wild

#14 MrParr1Noid

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

Weren't they Homer Kelly, and Homer Simpson's daughters?  :D
Ah 11s 17* w/Pink Aldila NVS
Raza Phitt Stream 10.5 w/Fuji 6.1
Oddsea MXM #1 w/Site Dot
Big Bersa Pex Pro 4-PW w/Recoil Graph
Golf Made Easy
Golf'rs Gone Wild

#15 Blade Junkie

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:40 AM

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

We had a bit of discussion on this subject on the persimmon golf today website a while back.

The consensus was that it was less about the date and more about the design.  For example a classic blade might be a forged blade with minimal frills, low/no offset, and relatively small.

It was felt that classic gear should respect the challenges of the course and properly punish and reward poor and good swings accordingly.  Hickory gear fits that bill

A blade is a blade for me, all of them are a classic design, and therefore all Classics, but there are clearly Vintage Classics, Classics, and Modern Classics among the blade portfolio lol. Retro is a term I’d probably use for 25+ years old, so pre 1988. Vintage for me = Hickory.

"Classic Summer Fun"

  • Joe Powell DSP-J4 Driver, Paul Gibson Hand Made 4W, 6W
  • MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfield Irons 3-PW, Ben Hogan Special BeCu Wedges 56°, 60°
  • MacGregor VIP TFP 90-1 Putter

"Hickory Heaven"

  • W.Cunningham Edinburgh Driver, Cann & Taylor "The Confidus" Brassie, W.Jeffrey Bulldog
  • Tom Stewart Irons - Driving Mashie, Mashie Iron, Mongrel Mashie, Mashie, Lofter, Mashie Niblick, Niblick x2
  • Gibson Eskitt Putter

"Club Championship"

  • Titleist 983K 10.5°, Wood Bros Texan 3W, Wood Bros All American 5W
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  • Titleist Bullseye Standard Flange M5C Putter

#16 tagnut69

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:03 AM

Dare I ask but would Ping Eye 2 be considered a classic

Cheers

Chris

#17 guisician

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:18 AM

View Posttagnut69, on 16 January 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Dare I ask but would Ping Eye 2 be considered a classic

Cheers

Chris

FWIW, it's a modern classic in my book; even a vintage classic fan can't deny its design innovation, popularity and influence. Heresy alert; though I'm a blade lover, I picked up a full set of black dot Zings for the (recent) history alone! OK, and for the weird toe as well...

Edited by guisician, 16 January 2013 - 08:19 AM.

MODERN play set (12 pc.):
Yonex eZone 380 driver, Callaway X2 Hot Pro 4w
Royal Collection JP104 4h, Callaway Heavenwood 5 & 6h
Royal Collection Tour VS irons (7-PW)
Edel TRP SW (54), Cleveland CG15 LW (64)
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport Beach putter
--------
HICKORY play set (7 pc.):
Jack White JWX Model D brassie & spoon, Mills BSD1 aluminium cleek
Tom Stewart mashie, Tom Morris mashie niblick
Tom Stewart niblick, Spalding HB putter

#18 tagnut69

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

My Eye2 iron are my current clubs having ditched the G5's I used last year.  I do occasionaly play a set of '65 Wilson Staff blades and have a bag full of hickory sticks that are awaiting restoration.

#19 teevons

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

View Posttagnut69, on 16 January 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Dare I ask but would Ping Eye 2 be considered a classic

Cheers

Chris
IMO if any club is a cavity back it cannot be called a classic. In any of the classic tourneys they have that is their rules also, no ping putters and no cavity back irons of any models

#20 Blade Junkie

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

View Postteevons, on 16 January 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

View Posttagnut69, on 16 January 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Dare I ask but would Ping Eye 2 be considered a classic

Cheers

Chris
IMO if any club is a cavity back it cannot be called a classic. In any of the classic tourneys they have that is their rules also, no ping putters and no cavity back irons of any models

I find myself asking "if Hogan was playing in XYZ era, would he have hit that club ?" if the answer is yes then you probably have a classic club :) Ping Eye 2s nice as they are, probably would not have ended up in Mr Hogan's bag, but for sure they are one of the most important icons of club design in the history of the game.

The equipment rules of the persimmon tour are interesting, in that they limit wedges to 56 loft maximum, drivers to 44" maximum, and you can have up to 16 clubs.
  • A player may not carry more than 16 clubs.
  • A player must carry at least two wooden-headed clubs.
  • A player may not carry more than one putter.
  • No club shall exceed 44 inches in length.
  • No club shall exceed a loft of 56 degrees.
  • No club shall have a static weight of less than 13 ounces.
  • Shafts of golf clubs must be made of wood, steel, or aluminum, and exhibit the patterns of traditional stepping. Only wood-shafted clubs may exhibit a smooth shaft property.
  • Driving clubs must be made of wood, pear-shaped, as in the tradition of the game.
  • The Driving club face or hitting area of a wooden driver may not measure more than 3 inches wide and 2 inches in height.
  • Driving clubs shall have a static weight minimum 13 ounces.
  • No Driving club shall exceed 44 inches in length.
  • Iron Clubs must be within the game’s tradition of forged metal (blades), and must not exhibit the presence of any perimeter weighting in an attempt to enlarge the sweet spot of the club head.
  • Iron Clubs may not have milled or textured faces other than v-shaped grooves within the fine tradition of the game. Box-shaped grooves are not allowed.
  • Iron Clubs shall have a static weight minimum of 14.5 ounces.
  • An Iron Club must have a hosel where the shaft is affixed to the club head.
  • Iron Club heads must not exceed 3 inches in width from the apex of the toe curve to the outside of the hosel unless the club was in production and generally available prior to 1950 (“grandfather clause”), in which case the toe to hosel measurement maximum is 3.5 inches.
  • Iron Club face height may not exceed 2.5 inches.
  • Putters shall not exceed 38 inches in length.
  • A Putter club face shall not exceed 4.5 inches in width, two inches in depth, and two inches in height.
http://persimmontour.com/rules (section 9)

"Classic Summer Fun"

  • Joe Powell DSP-J4 Driver, Paul Gibson Hand Made 4W, 6W
  • MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfield Irons 3-PW, Ben Hogan Special BeCu Wedges 56°, 60°
  • MacGregor VIP TFP 90-1 Putter

"Hickory Heaven"

  • W.Cunningham Edinburgh Driver, Cann & Taylor "The Confidus" Brassie, W.Jeffrey Bulldog
  • Tom Stewart Irons - Driving Mashie, Mashie Iron, Mongrel Mashie, Mashie, Lofter, Mashie Niblick, Niblick x2
  • Gibson Eskitt Putter

"Club Championship"

  • Titleist 983K 10.5°, Wood Bros Texan 3W, Wood Bros All American 5W
  • Mizuno MP33 irons 3-PW, Ben Hogan Apex Wedges 52°, 60°
  • Titleist Bullseye Standard Flange M5C Putter

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#21 teevons

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

View Postteevons, on 15 January 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

View Postguisician, on 14 January 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 13 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

View Posttembolo1284, on 13 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Def classics!

Something that's old, and that you don't have but you'd like to have... :)

p.s.  Who to rechrome my Apex II's?

Hear all good things about...

http://www.theironfactory.com/
I have about 30 heads at the Iron Factory right now and will get them back in another week or so ,I will show   his work when I receive them

Thanks guys, and what I've been wanting to do forever, I procrastinate with the best of them.   The Hogan Apex II's I've been in a  "Love / Hate" relationship with the whole time I bagged them... :)   Now I'm spoiled...Old And Spoiled... :lol:
here are some Apex II white cameo that are partially restored, 4 of the heads are NOS, never shafted and the 3 are rechromed, the 5 needs to be rechromed, very pretty heads

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#22 russad

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:47 AM

View PostBlade Junkie, on 16 January 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

We had a bit of discussion on this subject on the persimmon golf today website a while back.

The consensus was that it was less about the date and more about the design.  For example a classic blade might be a forged blade with minimal frills, low/no offset, and relatively small.

It was felt that classic gear should respect the challenges of the course and properly punish and reward poor and good swings accordingly.  Hickory gear fits that bill

A blade is a blade for me, all of them are a classic design, and therefore all Classics, but there are clearly Vintage Classics, Classics, and Modern Classics among the blade portfolio lol. Retro is a term I’d probably use for 25+ years old, so pre 1988. Vintage for me = Hickory.
Thanks, seems like as good a definition as any for my purposes.  After this and other responses above and generally looking through this forum I feel much more confident that I'm in the right space.  By the way I did end up buying the Macregors and have posted a picture in another post. Don't know if this will work as link to that post:
Tourney by MacGregor, any info on these appreciated

Edited by russad, 17 January 2013 - 04:50 AM.


#23 Ironmaster Oddities

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

Weren't they Homer Kelly, and Homer Simpson's daughters?  :D
if Homer Kelly is Grace's father, would that make Bobby Clampett her step brother?
You and I are probably the only reader who can make that connection

#24 kevcarter

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostIronmaster Oddities, on 19 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

You and I are probably the only reader who can make that connection

No you're not! :-)
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#25 guisician

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

View PostIronmaster Oddities, on 19 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

Weren't they Homer Kelly, and Homer Simpson's daughters?  :D
if Homer Kelly is Grace's father, would that make Bobby Clampett her step brother?
You and I are probably the only reader who can make that connection

Nice; we have now entered. . .The Impact Zone!

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#26 kevcarter

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

View Postguisician, on 19 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

View PostIronmaster Oddities, on 19 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

Weren't they Homer Kelly, and Homer Simpson's daughters?  :D
if Homer Kelly is Grace's father, would that make Bobby Clampett her step brother?
You and I are probably the only reader who can make that connection

Nice; we have now entered. . .The Impact Zone!

LOL
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I have been wrong before
I will be wrong again
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#27 Mitchell

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:41 PM

View Postkevcarter, on 19 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

View Postguisician, on 19 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

View PostIronmaster Oddities, on 19 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostMrParr1Noid, on 15 January 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

View Postmitchell, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

If you have to ask....j/k.   Seriously, each person's definition of classic will vary, but in golf equipment it generally means a subtle beauty that has withstood the test of time and is a standard by which others measured as opposed to flash w/o true beauty. Another member here had best analogy relating to this I have seen- think Grace Kelly, not Jessica Simpson.

Weren't they Homer Kelly, and Homer Simpson's daughters?  :D
if Homer Kelly is Grace's father, would that make Bobby Clampett her step brother?
You and I are probably the only reader who can make that connection

Nice; we have now entered. . .The Impact Zone!

LOL
Wow, you guys need SEVERAL years of therapy! Lol
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#28 JShaw

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:14 AM

Classics, no doubt.




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